OT, my thoughts on current events

September 16, 2001

Michele,

It is VERY good to share your feelings now! We need to ..

Obviously racism is wrong now, and to use this as an excuse to act out

violently, a desire obviously held by long carried prejudiced, are very

wrong. True Muslims are deplored by these actions as much as true Christians

are deplored by the actions of bombers who are bombing the name of their

branch of Christianity in Ireland.

There was a gentleman on Fox News TV earlier (I didn't get his name). He is

a Muslim and called for our Gov't to make pleas to the Muslim religious

leaders to come out and call bin Laden what he is ... he is the " Infidel "

and he is NOT Muslim, he violates scripture of the Koran with his actions

and he and the Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists should be distanced from

the REAL Islam and Muslim cultures and religions. They should point out

scripture by scripture why he is NOT a Muslim. That way EVERYONE will

understand he is a fanatical extremist who does not practice the religion he

claims to preach, he exploits it. The Taliban, bin Laden and those

extremists like them have not only terrorized American and the world, they

have also terrorized the people of Islam and the Muslim religion.

*Hugs*

Chris

-

" Michele " <mbrantner

Saturday, September 15, 2001 6:40 PM

OT, my thoughts on current events

> Hi all,

> I need to get my thoughts on the current events out and share them with

> people. You may or may not agree with me, but I'm just sharing my

feelings

> and if you disagree, that is ok with me.

>

> This whole business of war and terrorism is very foreign to me, as it is

to

> most people. I grew up in a small town, where racism and one sided

thinking

> prevailed (and still does ). But never the less, I grew up looking at

a

> global world, not just one country. In college, the global community was

> reinforced even further. In my graduating class, I was the ONLY Caucasian

> girl out of 8 girls in chemical engineering. My roommates were Chinese

and

> Ethiopian, others were from India, the Phillipines, and Africa. I

remember

> the Persian Gulf War, I had classmates from Iran, Pakistan, and Egypt.

They

> were so scared to come out of their apartments during the war for fear of

> retaliation. I remember visiting them and sharing their fear of their

> safety from their fellow students.

>

> What I am getting at is that I am VERY upset about the retaliation that is

> being taken against people in OUR own United States! Even people who are

> 3rd and 4th generation Americans are being beaten, are afraid to come out

of

> their homes, their places of worship are being vandalized, all because

their

> heritage is Middle Eastern. Here we are, mourning the victims of a

> terrorist attack, and then turning around and terrorizing other innocent

> people. This makes us the same as the original terrorists, no better. I

am

> very sad that people are being judged on their background and the color of

> their skin. We are in mourning and these people are mourning with us, and

> are scared for their lives. Are we going to have the same racial hatred

> that happened during WWII? Where innocent people are sent to " internment "

> camps, taken away from their homes and livelihoods?

>

> I am very sad and I mourn for the innocents, both living and deceased, who

> suffer due to the acts of a small group of people.

>

> Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.

> Michele (usually a lurker)

> --

> ------

> Who Wills, Can.

> Who Tries, Does.

> Who Loves, Lives.

> --Anne McCaffrey in Dragonrider

>

September 16, 2001

Michelle

I hear you and I wholeheartedly agree.

I am praying for the day when we can all get along as humans, and live for

goodness instead of the " almighty dollar "

I am fearful of the retaliation against violence with more violence.

BUT I pray that more and more people see fellow humans as brothers and

sisters regardless of race, religion or any other " difference "

I pray that this is all about paradigm shift- for the actions of the

terrorists and my government are not on my behalf-

I pray for the Afghani people that their children are not killed in what is

to come for the acts of some renegades.

Let us live in peace.

Michelle

September 16, 2001

At 01:46 PM 09/16/01, Marilyn Nicholson wrote:

>3. Think.........really think - both of you; for these people you speak of

>usually do not call themselves Americans!

>

>They call themselves Afro-Americans (and demand that they have more

>holidays off.... ie: their culture, which defines them as NOT Americans)

>Or.......there are the Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans,

>Spanish-Americans, the list goes on and on....

Excuse me?

First, you are wrong. Just plain wrong, and it's not even worth addressing

the reasons why you are wrong. It wouldn't do any good, and we've got

bigger fish to fry right now.

Second, did it ever occur to your that there may be people of these

ethnicities on this email group? People that may feel insulted by

your remarks? Our ethnicity may be hyphenated, but our nationality

definitely is not. WE ARE AMERICANS.

This " us " and " them " mentality needs to stop!

And btw, minorities aren't the only ones who commit rape... they aren't

even the ones who commit the *most* rapes.

-- Sandy (never thought I'd be reading racist comments on this email group)

September 16, 2001

Yes,

Well, I understand all of these posts and where folks are coming from and I

don't believe Marilyn was supporting racism and the " us " and " them "

mentality as much as saying look at ALL the things we have put in place

ourselves to divide us and promote the " us " and " them " mentality, even if we

don't realize it ... we're not all just Americans we're this that and every

other kind of " not like you " American ... and not that minorities commit

most rapes, but that even the most " namaste " person may truly in their heart

show their seed of racism and division if violation happens to you by a

person is a this that or the other kind of American " not like you " . Many

(most) still have a seed of division towards some others somewhere, within

(admittedly or not), because of all this " us and " them " junk we do have in

place in our society and until it is gone we will never truly be Americans

... we'll always be this that and the other " not like you " American ...

I just think she said it in a very not politically correct manner ....

*Hugs*

Chris

> http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

-

" Sandy Fields " <diamonique

;

Sunday, September 16, 2001 9:17 AM

Re: OT, my thoughts on current events

> At 01:46 PM 09/16/01, Marilyn Nicholson wrote:

>

> >3. Think.........really think - both of you; for these people you speak

of

> >usually do not call themselves Americans!

> >

> >They call themselves Afro-Americans (and demand that they have more

> >holidays off.... ie: their culture, which defines them as NOT Americans)

> >Or.......there are the Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans,

> >Spanish-Americans, the list goes on and on....

>

> Excuse me?

>

> First, you are wrong. Just plain wrong, and it's not even worth

addressing

> the reasons why you are wrong. It wouldn't do any good, and we've got

> bigger fish to fry right now.

>

> Second, did it ever occur to your that there may be people of these

> ethnicities on this email group? People that may feel insulted by

> your remarks? Our ethnicity may be hyphenated, but our nationality

> definitely is not. WE ARE AMERICANS.

>

> This " us " and " them " mentality needs to stop!

>

> And btw, minorities aren't the only ones who commit rape... they aren't

> even the ones who commit the *most* rapes.

>

> -- Sandy (never thought I'd be reading racist comments on this email

group)

>

> My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

>

September 16, 2001

At 11:45 AM 09/16/01, Chris Ziegler wrote:

>Nah, We're all allowed to talk, and learn here ... I'm not going to ban

>discussion like some other lists have ... just be grown ups about it folks

>

I'll admit I may have understood Marilyn's comments. With all the stuff

going on nowadays, and the violences that some idiots are committing

against Arab-Americans lately... it's just a real raw spot for me right now.

-- Sandy

September 16, 2001

> Ok, your first comment after you " quoted only the small part of my e-mail

that

> you apparently took offense at " was........... " Excuse me " ? You're excused,

and

> btw, I, too, was only stating my views. Please, if I'm not allowed to

reply to

> what offends ME, just say so........

>

> Thanks for the reply,

>

> Marilyn

Nah, We're all allowed to talk, and learn here ... I'm not going to ban

discussion like some other lists have ... just be grown ups about it folks

... and anyone wanna talk not politics and WTC stuff .. definately feel

free to post away on other topics .. I'll reply

*Hugs*

Chris

September 16, 2001

I'm sorry if my e-mail offended anyone, it was not intended to. I just

wanted to get my feelings out before they festered inside me.

--

------

Who Wills, Can.

Who Tries, Does.

Who Loves, Lives.

--Anne McCaffrey in Dragonrider

> http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

Marilyn Nicholson <menicholson7

Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:44:05 -0700

Re: OT, my thoughts on current events

Hey Sandy,

Didn't mean to touch any raw spots and I'm not a violent person... was just

replying to a different e-mail, is all. Goodness, if in any way I hurt your

feelings, I am truly sorry. Seems as there's enough of that going around,

no?

Marilyn

Sandy Fields wrote:

> I'll admit I may have understood Marilyn's comments. With all the stuff

> going on nowadays, and the violences that some idiots are committing

> against Arab-Americans lately... it's just a real raw spot for me right now.

>

> -- Sandy

>

> My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

>

September 16, 2001

I understand Sandy,

And I truly feel this is why folks have got to talk and get it out. Forums

like this can be good ways for people to begin to understand each other a

little more, and actually, REALLY come closer as Americans, especially now

when we really need to be united people of America and the world even!

*Hugs*

Chris

http://www.alittleoflactory.com

> I'll admit I may have understood Marilyn's comments. With all the stuff

> going on nowadays, and the violences that some idiots are committing

> against Arab-Americans lately... it's just a real raw spot for me right

now.

>

> -- Sandy

September 16, 2001

Too late! I'm already preggie hormonal and will be for 4.5 months more

(Not to say what I will be post-partum) And yep, AJ is still walking and

squawking AND climbing. Though he can say " more " and " please " ..... in sign

that is.

Hug your little guy for me

Michele

--

------

Who Wills, Can.

Who Tries, Does.

Who Loves, Lives.

--Anne McCaffrey in Dragonrider

" Chris Ziegler " <chrisziggy1

Sun, 16 Sep 2001 10:12:27 -0600

Re: OT, my thoughts on current events

Oh Michele,

You didn't offend anyone You did have to get it out, and I am glad you

did it here ... and you know I love you .. so don't get all preggie hormonal

on me now, my chandler

*Hugs*

Chris

PS Is AJ still walking and squawking like Sean (notice I said squawking, not

tawking

> I'm sorry if my e-mail offended anyone, it was not intended to. I just

> wanted to get my feelings out before they festered inside me.

> --

> ------

> Who Wills, Can.

> Who Tries, Does.

> Who Loves, Lives.

> --Anne McCaffrey in Dragonrider

>

September 16, 2001

Oh Michele,

You didn't offend anyone You did have to get it out, and I am glad you

did it here ... and you know I love you .. so don't get all preggie hormonal

on me now, my chandler

*Hugs*

Chris

PS Is AJ still walking and squawking like Sean (notice I said squawking, not

tawking

> I'm sorry if my e-mail offended anyone, it was not intended to. I just

> wanted to get my feelings out before they festered inside me.

> --

> ------

> Who Wills, Can.

> Who Tries, Does.

> Who Loves, Lives.

> --Anne McCaffrey in Dragonrider

>

September 16, 2001

Thank you,

And I'm from Oregon, a pretty safe place to be right now (I hope)

Michele

--

------

Who Wills, Can.

Who Tries, Does.

Who Loves, Lives.

--Anne McCaffrey in Dragonrider

Marilyn Nicholson <menicholson7

Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:57:37 -0700

Re: OT, my thoughts on current events

Hey Michelle,

No offense taken - we all have feelings and they don't always go along with

what

others are feeling...you're right to get those feelings out, but also

allowing

others to get theirs out, so to speak. We're all in shock and pretty sad,

angry

and a whole range of other emotions right now. Don't know where you're from,

but

be safe!

Marilyn

Michele wrote:

> I'm sorry if my e-mail offended anyone, it was not intended to. I just

> wanted to get my feelings out before they festered inside me.

> --

> ------

> Who Wills, Can.

> Who Tries, Does.

> Who Loves, Lives.

> --Anne McCaffrey in Dragonrider

>

> > http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

>

> Marilyn Nicholson <menicholson7

>

> Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:44:05 -0700

>

> Re: OT, my thoughts on current events

>

> Hey Sandy,

>

> Didn't mean to touch any raw spots and I'm not a violent person... was just

> replying to a different e-mail, is all. Goodness, if in any way I hurt your

> feelings, I am truly sorry. Seems as there's enough of that going around,

> no?

>

> Marilyn

>

> Sandy Fields wrote:

>

> > I'll admit I may have understood Marilyn's comments. With all the stuff

> > going on nowadays, and the violences that some idiots are committing

> > against Arab-Americans lately... it's just a real raw spot for me right now.

> >

> > -- Sandy

> >

> > My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> >

September 16, 2001

At 02:44 PM 09/16/01, Marilyn Nicholson wrote:

>Didn't mean to touch any raw spots and I'm not a violent person... was just

>replying to a different e-mail, is all. Goodness, if in any way I hurt your

>feelings, I am truly sorry. Seems as there's enough of that going around, no?

Hello Marilyn,

Thank you for this. I must apologize for my knee-jerk reaction. Reading

that stuff about African-Americans asking for additional holidays (not

true) and various ethnicities setting themselves apart as NOT Americans

really pushed my buttons. We use hyphenated ethnicities because we are

proud of both the American home and the foreign heritage and don't want to

lose sight of either of them.

I've been heartbroken to hear of some people throwing bricks through the

windows of Arab-American homes and businesses, beating up on them, and

other nonsense. People come here in search of a good life and the freedoms

America has to offer. They study and become American citizens, but their

physical characteristics always leave them open to such senseless

violence. Being African-American, I understand what it feels like to be on

the receiving end of racial profiling. It's horrible at any time; but in

these particular times we -- all Americans -- need to be looking at the

bigger problem, not releasing our frustrationis by targeting our

neighbors. Unfortunately, as Butch said, this was to be expected because

there are always idiots out there.

I agree with your response to Michelle, though. College most definitely is

not the real world, and we *have* to do something about this attack. If

the civilized world doesn't band together to stop this, it's just like

painting a target on ourselves... " Come on over and attack us all you

want... we can't/won't do anything about it " .

Yes innocents will be killed... on both sides. IMO this is worth dying

for. Terrorists simply can't be allowed to run roughshod over the world

like this any longer.

-- Sandy

September 16, 2001

At 12:17 PM 09/16/01, Michele wrote:

>Thank you,

> And I'm from Oregon, a pretty safe place to be right now (I hope)

>

That's the point of terrorism. When terrorists are afoot, *no* civilian is

safe... no region is safe.

I live in Detroit. I've always heard that this city would be a target in a

war because of the auto factories. We also have a company here (can't

think of the name of it) that builds tanks... another reason for us to be a

target. But that stuff holds true in a *traditional* war where the enemy

targets military installations, soldiers, etc.

Terrorists aren't after the military... they're after civilians. And

that's what makes them so horrible, and what makes this particular war so

different.

-- Sandy

September 16, 2001

Hi Michelle and the other Michelle who wrote a similar response,

Here are my thoughts.

1. College isn't " real " life.

2. At what point do you think that actions should be taken against the one's who

did this to Americans?

3. Think.........really think - both of you; for these people you speak of

usually do not call themselves Americans!

They call themselves Afro-Americans (and demand that they have more holidays

off.... ie: their culture, which defines them as NOT Americans) Or.......there

are the Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Spanish-Americans, the list goes on

and on.... You, yourself, call yourself a Caucasion? How about " just " an

American?

Back to the first Michelle's college days.... the Gulf War, I believe... why

didn't these Arab-Americans get on the first plane back home as that's where

they will head once they finish the either free (since we give out many more

minority scholarships than we do regular ole American ones... our son applied

for those he was eligible for and got them, BUT........the minority scholarships

that he wasn't allowed to even apply for were oh-so-much better), OR, the rich

foreign countries who send their kids to American colleges (usually the best),

and then bring them back " home " to their own countries.. are these people

Americans? NO! These people dont' think of themselves as Americans, you,

yourself, call yourself a Caucasian.... how about just an American?

What should we have done? Just said OK... let's let the terrorist destroy

America? Heck, they did one heck of a decent job at what they were attempting as

it is... and how, just HOW do you know that all these " nice " people that you

know and who are afraid have denounced their own families in other countries and

have no contact with them? You don't.

Many of us have close friends and loved ones in New York. Do you have ANY idea

of what it was like to have to sit here.. tears running down faces, and

wonder...... if they were even alive? Think a step further.. how about all the

parentless children who are left...........any sympathy for them? Or do your

sympathies lie outside your own country?

Ok, let's make it personal. IF it was YOUR family who got blown up, was on one

of those planes that crashed.... was in the World Trade Center, how would you

feel then? You haven't addressed that in either e-mail and doesn't seem you

have put yourself in that position!

There will be a war. 85% of Americans back military action, you two are in the

15% that don't.. are you saying that the 85% have no right and you do? That they

have no right to say.. Let's stick up for our people that have been killed, our

fellow Americans need not die in vain!

This is America, it is not Utopia!! We have real problems and deaths to deal

with, real people who've lost those they love and need in their lives. You two

really have an idealistic view. Where does that lead to? How sheltered are you

two.. where have you been all your lives? Obviously not in the REAL world... if

you were raped (excuse my language) by a minority or several, would you be able

to just go on and forgive? Would you EVER look at a face similar and NOT feel

fear, anger and pain???? (you're lieing if you say yes)

A personal background from me.... many, many years ago, BOTH my maternal

grandparents came to this country - one at the age of 9 and the other was

older... 11. They had no relatives here, had no " home " to go to - just the

knowledge that their parents, relatives, friends in the countries they came from

had raised enough money to send ONE member to the land of opportunity - America.

Did I mention they spoke no English? Know what they did? One found a job in a

factory..... yea, child labor was legal then, and my grandma was sure enough

glad to have the job..... my grandpa, all his life, walked MILES daily, knocking

on doors asking for work.......doing lawns, milking cows.. you name it, he did

it. They NEVER thought of themselves as non-Americans! They learned

English......not the English-as-a-second-language bull that's being taught

now! They could read and write in English and also watch TV (in later years,

when it came about, on their little black and white one) and understand what

they were watching! They were PROUD to be Americans... proud to send a little

bit of money back home to their starving relatives, at times, going without food

themselves. They married, had 8 kids and those children are my Aunts and Uncles

- also Americans!!!!!!!!!!!!! And damned proud of it! College was an unreachable

goal in that family, as was owning a car - it was OK. They expected nor wanted

any free handouts from anyone, but were always ready with something baked, or a

bit of food that they had for anyone who came by. And a smile and a kind word.

That is.. IF those people had one for them!

Ok, Michelle, you're admittedly Caucasian... try living in an AFRO-AMERICAN

community and see what predjudice you, yourself run into... or a Arab-American

one.... you will not be treated nicey-nice! Or if that's not enough,.. visit the

DEEP South,where Yankees are still foreigners..........and guess what my husband

and I did? We moved from the north to the south and some don't like yankees ...

ok... so be it........BUT, some do, and some wish you to prove that you're ok

before they'll even speak to you - that we have no problem with. Why don't we

have a problem with it????? Cuz we, unlike the people you are speaking about,

and perhaps yourselves as well, don't take it as their God-given right! We

expect to have to TRY AND FIT IN. And that predjudice is coming from the civil

war, not WWII.

There will be a war. People will die. People will PAY for what they did to our

country and maybe,... just maybe, it won't continue to happen! What the heck are

you two wishing for? A free-ride license for any terrorist to just destroy this

wonderful country that " some " of us truly love? Get it straight on this point

too,.. this was NOT a small effort by a handful of terrorists, will you please

THINK????????? Nothing on this scale could've been done by a small handful!

Don't get me wrong, I pray all the time.... cry almost as much... for our

country, for our people... no matter what color, race or creed they are, the

one's who died... the one's who lost family, friends...etc... the REAL

Americans; not the one's pretending to be............the one's that have faith

and pride in this country and will do anything to keep our country

America!!!!!!!!!!!! God Bless America! God Bless the USA!

Marilyn

Michele wrote:

> Hi all,

> I need to get my thoughts on the current events out and share them with

> people. You may or may not agree with me, but I'm just sharing my feelings

> and if you disagree, that is ok with me.

>

> This whole business of war and terrorism is very foreign to me, as it is to

> most people. I grew up in a small town, where racism and one sided thinking

> prevailed (and still does ). But never the less, I grew up looking at a

> global world, not just one country. In college, the global community was

> reinforced even further. In my graduating class, I was the ONLY Caucasian

> girl out of 8 girls in chemical engineering. My roommates were Chinese and

> Ethiopian, others were from India, the Phillipines, and Africa. I remember

> the Persian Gulf War, I had classmates from Iran, Pakistan, and Egypt. They

> were so scared to come out of their apartments during the war for fear of

> retaliation. I remember visiting them and sharing their fear of their

> safety from their fellow students.

>

> What I am getting at is that I am VERY upset about the retaliation that is

> being taken against people in OUR own United States! Even people who are

> 3rd and 4th generation Americans are being beaten, are afraid to come out of

> their homes, their places of worship are being vandalized, all because their

> heritage is Middle Eastern. Here we are, mourning the victims of a

> terrorist attack, and then turning around and terrorizing other innocent

> people. This makes us the same as the original terrorists, no better. I am

> very sad that people are being judged on their background and the color of

> their skin. We are in mourning and these people are mourning with us, and

> are scared for their lives. Are we going to have the same racial hatred

> that happened during WWII? Where innocent people are sent to " internment "

> camps, taken away from their homes and livelihoods?

>

> I am very sad and I mourn for the innocents, both living and deceased, who

> suffer due to the acts of a small group of people.

>

> Thanks for letting me get this off my chest.

> Michele (usually a lurker)

> --

> ------

> Who Wills, Can.

> Who Tries, Does.

> Who Loves, Lives.

> --Anne McCaffrey in Dragonrider

>

> http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

>

September 16, 2001

Hi Sandy,

Don't mean to offend you, simply stating " my " feelings as were the two others I

replied to. First off, you have no clue whether I'm a minority.... could be I

am, but it's not worth getting into - why? Because since I do not hyphenate my

ethnicity, and consider myself to " be " an American and only an American, which

I am very proud to be.... guess it's none of anyone's business. You're right,

rape isn't only committed by minorities - you missed the point here on that

one... one I never made. I used rape in the loosest sense of the word, ok, if

it makes you feel better, would it make any difference WHO or WHAT culture

raped you if indeed they did as to how you'd view that culture from then on?

Actually, if researched, most rape victims have a problem (understandably) with

the entire male race.......sometimes for life.

Ok, your first comment after you " quoted only the small part of my e-mail that

you apparently took offense at " was........... " Excuse me " ? You're excused, and

btw, I, too, was only stating my views. Please, if I'm not allowed to reply to

what offends ME, just say so........

Thanks for the reply,

Marilyn

PS - I'm not the one doing the US and THEM comments in regards to race, I am,

always have been and always will be, an American, no hyphens wanted or needed.

Those comments were but only to make a point.

Sandy Fields wrote:

> At 01:46 PM 09/16/01, Marilyn Nicholson wrote:

>

> >3. Think.........really think - both of you; for these people you speak of

> >usually do not call themselves Americans!

> >

> >They call themselves Afro-Americans (and demand that they have more

> >holidays off.... ie: their culture, which defines them as NOT Americans)

> >Or.......there are the Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans,

> >Spanish-Americans, the list goes on and on....

>

> Excuse me?

>

> First, you are wrong. Just plain wrong, and it's not even worth addressing

> the reasons why you are wrong. It wouldn't do any good, and we've got

> bigger fish to fry right now.

>

> Second, did it ever occur to your that there may be people of these

> ethnicities on this email group? People that may feel insulted by

> your remarks? Our ethnicity may be hyphenated, but our nationality

> definitely is not. WE ARE AMERICANS.

>

> This " us " and " them " mentality needs to stop!

>

> And btw, minorities aren't the only ones who commit rape... they aren't

> even the ones who commit the *most* rapes.

>

> -- Sandy (never thought I'd be reading racist comments on this email group)

>

> My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

>

September 16, 2001

Hey Sandy,

Didn't mean to touch any raw spots and I'm not a violent person... was just

replying to a different e-mail, is all. Goodness, if in any way I hurt your

feelings, I am truly sorry. Seems as there's enough of that going around, no?

Marilyn

Sandy Fields wrote:

> I'll admit I may have understood Marilyn's comments. With all the stuff

> going on nowadays, and the violences that some idiots are committing

> against Arab-Americans lately... it's just a real raw spot for me right now.

>

> -- Sandy

>

> My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

>

September 16, 2001

Hey Michelle,

No offense taken - we all have feelings and they don't always go along with what

others are feeling...you're right to get those feelings out, but also allowing

others to get theirs out, so to speak. We're all in shock and pretty sad, angry

and a whole range of other emotions right now. Don't know where you're from, but

be safe!

Marilyn

Michele wrote:

> I'm sorry if my e-mail offended anyone, it was not intended to. I just

> wanted to get my feelings out before they festered inside me.

> --

> ------

> Who Wills, Can.

> Who Tries, Does.

> Who Loves, Lives.

> --Anne McCaffrey in Dragonrider

>

> > http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

>

> Marilyn Nicholson <menicholson7

>

> Sun, 16 Sep 2001 11:44:05 -0700

>

> Re: OT, my thoughts on current events

>

> Hey Sandy,

>

> Didn't mean to touch any raw spots and I'm not a violent person... was just

> replying to a different e-mail, is all. Goodness, if in any way I hurt your

> feelings, I am truly sorry. Seems as there's enough of that going around,

> no?

>

> Marilyn

>

> Sandy Fields wrote:

>

> > I'll admit I may have understood Marilyn's comments. With all the stuff

> > going on nowadays, and the violences that some idiots are committing

> > against Arab-Americans lately... it's just a real raw spot for me right now.

> >

> > -- Sandy

> >

> > My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> >

September 16, 2001

I wish I could say I feel safe where I live. I am the Hampton Roads

area of Va. I live within walking distance to the Norfolk Naval

Shipyard, (husband works there) 20 miles from Norfolk Naval Station.

Others are Oceana, Little Creek Amphibious Base, Langley Air Force Base

and Northwest Security Group. I am afraid there will be more attacks,

but I guess there is nothing I can do about it.

Terri P

Michele wrote:

> Thank you,

> And I'm from Oregon, a pretty safe place to be right now (I hope)

>

> Michele

September 17, 2001

Hi Terri,

I'm in Florida.. and I don't feel safe either.. don't know if " anyone " does.

I think Sandy said it best when she said that there isn't really anywhere

that one can feel safe..... and she's right. Terrorism is one of those

things that make you feel very UNsafe wherever you live...

I spoke with a friend of mine from Connecticut today, which I where we moved

from and she told me that it had been awhile since she'd heard a plane.. then

a helicopter went over her condo and she started to shake.... with fear! Come

to think of it.. I haven't heard a plane in a bit and would probably have

the same reaction as she did!

Where can we feel safe? Nowhere right about now... terrorists target

whatever, wherever, whoever they wish - since we're not terrorists, we sure

can't predict how they think! Think of it another way, wherever there are

people to hurt.. could be where a terrorist will aim for next. Could be the

last place anyone ever expected. Especially after targeting the likeliest

places. Let's just hope and pray that they don't get another

chance............k? We're human... and the things that have happened in the

past few days are UNhuman to the extreme! Let's just all try and stick

together.. give support and be able to voice our fears, can't hurt.. might

help.

This is a time for all of us to be strong and being strong doesn't always

mean not being afraid... sometimes it just means sticking together, putting

up a strong front and believing in our country. God Bless The USA.

Thanks to Chris for providing this to us all...

Hugs to all - we probably need em!

Marilyn

Terri P wrote:

> I wish I could say I feel safe where I live. I am the Hampton Roads

> area of Va. I live within walking distance to the Norfolk Naval

> Shipyard, (husband works there) 20 miles from Norfolk Naval Station.

> Others are Oceana, Little Creek Amphibious Base, Langley Air Force Base

> and Northwest Security Group. I am afraid there will be more attacks,

> but I guess there is nothing I can do about it.

>

> Terri P

>

> Michele wrote:

>

> > Thank you,

> > And I'm from Oregon, a pretty safe place to be right now (I hope)

> >

> > Michele

>

> My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

>

September 17, 2001

Hello Marilyn'

I am not denying this is a tragedy, nor am I failing to see the hurt caused

by this- I, too have friends in new york.

I just dont see how bombing more innocent people will help-

BUT i do agree that those responsible should be punished.

Michelle-

I wasnt the one talking about college but college is part of real life for

some

September 18, 2001

Hiya Michelle

> Hello Marilyn'

>

> I am not denying this is a tragedy, nor am I failing to see the hurt

caused

> by this- I, too have friends in new york.

I hope everyone you know is okay This is such a shock still, and so scary

... I have friends who have the " I'm a New Yorker and I'll ALWAYS stay, they

can't move me " attitude .. and then I have others like .. " You can stay ..

I'm outta here! "

>

> I just dont see how bombing more innocent people will help-

>

> BUT i do agree that those responsible should be punished.

But how do we punish those responsible in a peaceful manner when those

responsible for these terrorist activities aren't at all interested in

listening to what anyone except their extremists leaders have to say. Also,

these activities are supported and harbored by gov'ts who are human rights

violators, that also oppress and kill their own people by the way. How do

you peacefully deal with that? The innocent people are dying victims today

anyway .... the Afghanistan ambassador to the UN is part of a movement is

Northern Afghanistan that is opposed to the Taliban gov't, and is not at all

fond of the idea of innocents in his country dying in a military strike, but

is looking forward to getting rid of the totally awful Taliban government,

as well as bin Laden. The people will be better off for that. How many years

have we been screaming about the way women are treated there?

>

> Michelle-

>

> I wasn't the one talking about college but college is part of real life

for

> some

What " older folks " mean by that (sorry Marilyn, not calling you old!, I'm

just assuming Michelle is more in my age bracket

is years down the road when one has lived life out of college they see just

how much it wasn't the real world .. it is its own reality ... the grown up

kid reality ... the last steps towards the *groan* total grown up reality,

but still not quite there yet. They don't mean it offensively .. gosh I am

going to be 29 tomorrow and I say stuff I NEVER thought I'd say ten years

ago .. And I'm not becoming a fogy, just wiser

*Smile*

Chris (list mom)

http://www.americangreetings.com

September 18, 2001

Thanks for the reply chris

I agree that what we are dealing with is an atrocity, and there is violence

in every corner- and i dont know how to punish only those who are

responsible...

I am just frightened of this reality.

Last night I heard a noise in my house and my heart started pounding and I

couldnt sleep for awhile...it was just the house settling, but I envisioned

a suicide bomber coming to kill my family.

I guess I am more affected than I thought. Yikes.

Blessings and prayers(never thought id say THAT when I was in college : -) )

I am a recovering catholic.(Irish, so I must have cellular memories of

violence)

BTW- I am 31...happy birthday chris...happy happy!

Michelle

September 18, 2001

Hi Michelle and Chris,

Oh, Michelle.. I think we're " all " scared......no matter who we are, where in

the USA we live... it's so scary, even for us " older " ones ( I'll get ya for

that one, Chris! <grin>) I'm 46 (groan.........), and our son in Connecticut is

just turned 24, and 'he' is affected just as much as I and Mark are, I

think.........(we're in FL, btw, Michelle).

I agree with you in that it's so hard to see the innocent have to suffer... but

this is terrorism...........and you know what? Being afraid as I think we all

are.... we're already suffering! Don't we all find ourselves in tears at the

darndest times? In the weirdest places? Another friend of mine - who's over 40

as well, told me (she's in CT) that she hadn't realized that she hadn't heard a

plane in awhile... and then there was a helicopter (loud) really close-by her

home and she started shaking... couldn't stop for the longest time... the

rational part of her told her that it was " just " a helicopter....; we're human

though... we react to these terrible atrocities with the fear inside us... can't

help it as it's involuntary.

You're right too, Michelle.. none of us wishes violence on innocents.. but...

with terrorism; it looks to be pretty unavoidable. Sad but true. Since the other

choice is to ignore it all and let 'any' terrorist group out there bomb heck out

of us.........again. Unacceptable. Inhuman.

Bottom line is ... terrorists just don't think like you and the rest of us on

this list.. you know? And they treat mass suicide and death as a planned effort

of what they need to do... scary, it is.

To get away from this all for a minute... there's always the fact that TODAY is

Chris's birthday.... <laughing>, not yesterday, yea, I messed up on the

date!!!!!!!! Soooooooo, happy birthday to CHRIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Age is just a

number... we grow, we learn, we live - aw heck, then the memory starts to go...

<grin>, the body falls apart <more grins>... does anyone think maybe Chris needs

an e-birthday card??? LOL http://www.bluemountainarts.com

OR

Take care, Michelle... I meant no offense when I made the remark about college

age... or whatever it was... being 46, I'm looking forward to the half-century

birthday!!!!!!!!!!! ::::::::singin.. OFF KEY, Happy Birthday Toooooooo

Chrissssssss!!!!!!!!!:::::::::::::::::::::

Hugs to all,

Marilyn

michelle wrote:

> Thanks for the reply chris

>

> I agree that what we are dealing with is an atrocity, and there is violence

> in every corner- and i dont know how to punish only those who are

> responsible...

> I am just frightened of this reality.

>

> Last night I heard a noise in my house and my heart started pounding and I

> couldnt sleep for awhile...it was just the house settling, but I envisioned

> a suicide bomber coming to kill my family.

> I guess I am more affected than I thought. Yikes.

>

> Blessings and prayers(never thought id say THAT when I was in college : -) )

> I am a recovering catholic.(Irish, so I must have cellular memories of

> violence)

> BTW- I am 31...happy birthday chris...happy happy!

>

> Michelle

>

> My Pictures of Aromatic Plants and Exotic Places In Turkey

> http://members.home.net/chrisziggy1/triptoturkey.html

>

September 18, 2001

> Thanks for the reply chris

I TRY to reply to most stuff Sometimes though time does not permit

>

> I agree that what we are dealing with is an atrocity, and there is

violence

> in every corner- and i dont know how to punish only those who are

> responsible...

> I am just frightened of this reality.

I hear ya, so am I ... heck I moved out of NYC years ago for several

reason.. honestly one of them being " something really bad is going to happen

of a terrorist nature " . Not like I am oh so safe in Colorado, anywhere is a

target .. shoot they were on TV talking of a smaller city strike and Denver

was named .. I sure want to stay in the 'burbs here an not go anywhere near

downtown now!

>

> Last night I heard a noise in my house and my heart started pounding and I

> couldnt sleep for awhile...it was just the house settling, but I

envisioned

> a suicide bomber coming to kill my family.

> I guess I am more affected than I thought. Yikes.

Isn'tt it awful ... I hear multiple rescue squad sirens and I wonder if

something really big just went down locally, and I don't mean " just " some

local trash killing himself and his family (like that isn't big and awful

itself - but now its nothing compared to what it COULD be !)

>

> Blessings and prayers(never thought id say THAT when I was in college

: -) )

SEE!!! *LOL* ;p

> I am a recovering catholic.(Irish, so I must have cellular memories of

> violence)

Hehehe ... all recovering Catholics on the list raise your hands *hand*

Just kidding folks .. I have NO problem with my Catholic peers .. I'm just

not one anymore, that is all

> BTW- I am 31...happy birthday chris...happy happy!

Thank ya fellow old fart )

>

> Michelle

*Smile*

Chris (list mom)