Guest guest Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Hi Pete and good morning... Of course she went to hospital first, what happen was that I was doing callisthenics and learning to read Chinese (slow process but so far surprisingly fun). I personally did not have that great training to really treat people that so recently have shot wounds but someone from ministry of health was trying a something at least. He is not her attending doctor i.e. western doctor but when he saw that they are just jamming her up with medicines which by the way I will send to list. Anyway, I have not understood the infrastructure and functioning of the health system, due to my lack of knowledge and experience I was dragged into something that unfortunately I which I had more knowing what to do then I do currently. I just seen her twice and need to learn scalp acupuncture (at least think I heard that that is suppose to alleviate the pain), deepen my knowledge of electro acupuncture and so forth not to forget to actually deepen my knowing Chinese medicine actually thinking and maybe from there be a little more prepared to learn. For example, when I saw her she was in bed I am thinking that truamatology must be relevant blood and qi stasis and or fire and or fire toxin and shen definitely affected: WHAT DO I DO? yesterday there was to many disorder on the streets in major parts of Guatemala city due to demonstration that I could not get to see her. Thus far nothing is working but it brings to another point irregularity of treatment and costs. I am a sorry sight for the all American way I end up spending money rather then making money because there are so many people in need here, now with that money gone maybe will change but who knows? I happen to think: If the Nan Ching really did say that: A superior physician treats society then what? I know Z'ev has referred to it in what meaning I am not sure. Todd just did an eloquent exposition relating all back to modern research. Does the original sentence convey treats or change? I been told that the Nan ching is really about the body-being and that it is a an great source for clinical Chinese medicine. If that is the case how can we " tease " that out into practice? I personally thought of the above sentence that a superior physician must treat against social ills (injustice) but then that is " political " and I doubt that Chinese medicine practioner at least out side of china (as for Asia I have no idea) ever will be revolutionary in there acts and deeds. I also believe that a true revolution is a change of heart, there in lies the importance of learning Chinese medicine (for me). I am trying to " court " two people into learning (the little I may know) Chinese medicine with me. Two Maya women that I am trying to animate to learn Chinese with me. The course is paid but the payment is symbolic but the hopefully in the future one could organise ways that it would be possible to treat someone with shot wounds at least five times a day. Back to the patient I also ranged some friends and colleagues two western doctors whom are interested in promoting Chinese medicine and one might study it (but studying Chinese medicine turn out more difficult then Sunday school), got hold of one of them the lesser mad one (it seams sometimes that the saying a journalist in Guatemala once coined and then they shot him dead: To live in a country like Guatemala you either must be a drunk or greazy; and maybe the injustice here is simply driving me crazy). Thus she says what I was suspecting but wanted her professional opinion that they are also intoxicating her with same medications but different names. Then she goes into homeopathy now this is all over the phone, of course we can not take away the medication she is taking although thus far nothing is working but at least it gives her hope. Doc Rosen (I think it is), GUAMAP are not answering my letters! they could at least from what they state as a goal on there web site maybe give helping hand in terms of logistics?, needles moxa or even the best thing on par of a keen practioner in person donate books books for example... Now I work for a living and just try to shut out that there are so many people that really needs access to Chinese medicine but can not afford apart from no awareness of qi treatment (qi gong i.e. would it not be a wonderful world if we all did qi gong together, self massage, herbal medication etc...) By the way thanks to the person suggesting yunan baio yao, the medication is not accessible here but maybe in years to come... By the way Ken are you not part of a project that is building a curriculum for developing countries? Now I come to thing that qi is iniative, my qi seams to be pretty chaotic and hence the slowness in getting something going in Guatemala but I have also come to the opinion that education is everything, hence hope fully I can " charm " the two women long enough for them to start learning Chinese medicine. And finally since I am a disaster at writing letters maybe of list one person could help me in writing letters explaining what is slowly but surely condensing into Chinese medicine for all by the year 2000 to borrow world health slogan with slight modifications health for all by the year 2000, hmm.... Because I know there might be people and or organisations that could help out in money ways send a practioner over here, donate a book or two:-) etc. only I do not manage the right words and it indeed hinges all on the right word. Marco Ps. If I get to see the woman again I will try some electro acupuncture on the scalp I was thinking of also trying to drain fire and calm the mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 Hi Marco! The other suggestions were quite good starting points. You should closely monitor the symptoms and signs (tongue, pulse) and adjust your treatments accordingly. It seems from your post that the practice of TCM is not highly developed where you are, does your government license your practice? At 07:18 AM 2/26/2004, you wrote: >Hi Pete and good morning... > > >Of course she went to hospital first, what happen was that I was doing<snip> > Regards, Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 God morning Pete, No, thus far the practice is non existence here apart from maybe a hand full of people but I am not sure. Yes I have had good suggestions... not sure how to create an infrastructure to make acupuncture worth while in such situations. Everything is a fascinating mess here, not seen the person because of some very heavy congestion due to some demonstrations. Has any one actual experience in alleviating shot wound pain? It would be a worth while short term endeavour to get acupuncture (if it can contribute positively to alleviating shot wound pain), as part of a treatment protocol. As for Chinese medicine developed in Guatemala, is far way to go yet. There are supposedly schools teaching acupuncture but frankly they are not. I think the development of acumoxa and related arts can be measured by how much practitioner are using it and trying to communicate it between them self and promoting it both within the privet sector and health care sector and of course how much one is adopting the ways of yin yang. (z'ev on another list has started an interesting thread about that). Well, I know other people have developed amazing things in India and probably other countries so only time will tell if something concrete can happen here. I got some students at least two women that I am also hoping will learn Chinese with me. Of course the Chinese I am learning is from books and it is the two volume book by Unschuld. It is to early to say if it will stick but if I can learn it then it is proof that anyone can. Now the purpose of this is to try to " by pass " some complications (no doubt we will have others and or similar once here). Only yester day I had a western medical student visiting he goes to an elite school here in Guatemala and one wonders if human beings are just plain lazy. He was telling me as a doctor i.e. western doctor he only had to study three months to know all acupuncture. He wants to do his finial theses about acupuncture and dysmenoriea (more about that later). In short ideas " our personal philosophy " really seams to create our world. To plant a seed against ignorance I decided to try to develop Chinese medicine in terms of an living art and not merely a " clinical science " . Everything I do here is on one hand premature but then again it is a learning curve. Someone one person in fact has an " academy of Chinese medicine " , he has never sincerely qualified in Chinese medicine. People keep referring to him as the professor. I have patience that tell me about his " course " . It has everything: Physics Statistics Chemistry Anatomy bla bla but not Chinese medicine, funny really how everything here at the moment is just like other places only in a different scale. Well, the classes are frankly a dude. I like to avoid the unnecessary hostility towards learning Chinese (or an Asian language) here. An promote the learning of Chinese as the beginning to truly be free from North American influence:-) What I mean is that to many middle men and women will create a see of distractions. Once we know some Chinese maybe in the future we can all go there to develop self confidence (something which I do not have), and maybe even manage to bring over a veteran CM doctor. Meanwhile any outside contact with the world out there and if anyone happen to go to Guatemala would be great. I have not really responded to people that have in the past of list shown an interest. Because there really is not yet that much happening here. If we can get up to some intellectual-practical knowing then it would be worth while for people to come. Or if one could stay at least six months then we could do a community clinic together. As for the small course I am doing I really want to learn how to take a diagnosis and use the information i.e. how to think Chinese medicine and doing Chinese medicine. Marco - " Pete Theisen " <petet <Chinese Medicine > Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:39 PM Re: was Shot wond recent > Hi Marco! > > The other suggestions were quite good starting points. > > You should closely monitor the symptoms and signs (tongue, pulse) and > adjust your treatments accordingly. It seems from your post that the > practice of TCM is not highly developed where you are, does your government > license your practice? > > At 07:18 AM 2/26/2004, you wrote: > >Hi Pete and good morning... > > > > > >Of course she went to hospital first, what happen was that I was doing<snip> > > > > Regards, > > Pete > > > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. > > To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups' homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click 'edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. > > To send an email to > <Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2004 Report Share Posted February 27, 2004 I suggest one take the pathology following 'gunshot' to be an Excess. As I have noted before, the qi runs in a closed circuit which begins and ends at a fixed point, LU 1, zhong fu, Middle Mansion, taking 12 phases of 120 minuits to run its course. When an external pathogen in the nature of Wind Cold etc enters, Shi symptoms ensue, which untreated settle down to Xu condition, but only after the pathogen has changed form, dissipated, become absorbed, mutated. The metal head of the bullet acts in similar manner, and causes an Excess, which needs to be dealth with in like manner. I am quoting an article of mine, 'The Three Kinds of Depletions and Repletions', it should be published soon: " ... The Thirtieth Difficult Issue in the Nan-Ching 18, states: 'In general, the constructive influences and the protective influences follow each other proceeding through the organism.' Again, the same Issue continues to state that, 'The constructive influences proceed inside the vessels; the protective influences proceed outside the vessels. They circulate through the organism without a break; after fifty passages they have a great meeting. The yin and the yang conduits are tied to each other like a ring without end. Hence, one knows that the constructive and protecting influences are following each other.' [My comments] ... When a tertiary factor of evil influences intrudes in this continuity, pain results. Such a pain, almost a space-occupying factor, displaces the two legitimate forces, and ends up causing repletion. Chi Po again, " ... b. If the patient feels pain externally but is comfortable internally, this indicates a repletion in the exterior and a depletion in the interior. c. If the patient feels pain internally but is comfortable externally, this indicates a repletion in the interior and a depletion in the exterior. " Some points to consider in the presenting symptomology: 1. Where is the bullet lodged? [Which Warmer? Alongside which organ system, channel? inturrupting which sinew?] 2. At which level does it rest? [Flesh, organ, blood, qi, bone, tendon or sinew?] 3. What kind of Excess pattern should one look for? etc. Treatment: Very obivously, a process of reducing, depleting. The real world. What if there is a Depletion state in place before the trauma? In which case does one: a. deplete anyway? b. tone first and then deplete? c. run a local even-movement? If this begins to look like a horror story, welcome to the world of Acupuncture. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 2004 Report Share Posted February 28, 2004 Hi Marco! Are there any TCM schools in Spain that you could attend and be taught in Spanish (which I assume is your first language)? In the US it is turning into a 4 year course and you need 2 years of Junior College to start with. The courses are " supposed to " be in English, but really they are in *broken* English. I know some people who have studied in China and the course there must have been in English because they didn't know Chinese. It would be very difficult to teach yourself TCM, not impossible, but very difficult. Try to attend a good school if you can. If the school has an accreditation by an agency recognized by the government, that would be one indication that it meets a minimum standard. The MD guy was referring to a course in TCM for MDs, about 200 hours. He doesn't know " all about " TCM, he just knows what could be taught in 200 hours. At 06:21 AM 2/27/2004, you wrote: >God morning Pete, > >No, thus far the practice is non existence here apart from maybe a hand full >of people but I am not sure. > >Yes I have had good suggestions... > >not sure how to create an infrastructure to make acupuncture worth while in >such situations. > >Everything is a fascinating mess here, not seen the person because of some >very heavy congestion due to some demonstrations. > >Has any one actual experience in alleviating shot wound pain? > >It would be a worth while short term endeavour to get acupuncture (if it can >contribute positively to alleviating shot wound pain), as part of a >treatment protocol. > >As for Chinese medicine developed in Guatemala, is far way to go yet. There >are supposedly schools teaching acupuncture but frankly they are not. > >I think the development of acumoxa and related arts can be measured by how >much practitioner are using it and trying to communicate it between them >self and promoting it both within the privet sector and health care sector >and of course how much one is adopting the ways of yin yang. (z'ev on >another list has started an interesting thread about that). > >Well, I know other people have developed amazing things in India and >probably other countries so only time will tell if something concrete can >happen here. > >I got some students at least two women that I am also hoping will learn >Chinese with me. > >Of course the Chinese I am learning is from books and it is the two volume >book by Unschuld. >It is to early to say if it will stick but if I can learn it then it is >proof that anyone can. > >Now the purpose of this is to try to " by pass " some complications (no doubt >we will have others and or similar once here). > >Only yester day I had a western medical student visiting he goes to an elite >school here in Guatemala and one wonders if human beings are just plain >lazy. > >He was telling me as a doctor i.e. western doctor he only had to study three >months to know all acupuncture. >He wants to do his finial theses about acupuncture and dysmenoriea (more >about that later). > >In short ideas " our personal philosophy " really seams to create our world. > >To plant a seed against ignorance I decided to try to develop Chinese >medicine in terms of an living art and not merely a " clinical science " . >Everything I do here is on one hand premature but then again it is a >learning curve. > >Someone one person in fact has an " academy of Chinese medicine " , he has >never sincerely qualified in Chinese medicine. People keep referring to him >as the professor. I have patience that tell me about his " course " . > >It has everything: >Physics >Statistics >Chemistry >Anatomy >bla bla > >but not Chinese medicine, funny really how everything here at the moment is >just like other places only in a different scale. Well, the classes are >frankly a dude. > >I like to avoid the unnecessary hostility towards learning Chinese (or an >Asian language) here. An promote the learning of Chinese as the beginning to >truly be free from North American influence:-) > >What I mean is that to many middle men and women will create a see of >distractions. Once we know some Chinese maybe in the future we can all go >there to develop self confidence (something which I do not have), and maybe >even manage to bring over a veteran CM doctor. > >Meanwhile any outside contact with the world out there and if anyone happen >to go to Guatemala would be great. > >I have not really responded to people that have in the past of list shown an >interest. Because there really is not yet that much happening here. If we >can get up to some intellectual-practical knowing then it would be worth >while for people to come. Or if one could stay at least six months then we >could do a community clinic together. > > >As for the small course I am doing I really want to learn how to take a >diagnosis and use the information i.e. how to think Chinese medicine and >doing Chinese medicine. > >Marco > > > >- > " Pete Theisen " <petet ><Chinese Medicine > >Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:39 PM >Re: was Shot wond recent > > > > Hi Marco! > > > > The other suggestions were quite good starting points. > > > > You should closely monitor the symptoms and signs (tongue, pulse) and > > adjust your treatments accordingly. It seems from your post that the > > practice of TCM is not highly developed where you are, does your >government > > license your practice? > > > > At 07:18 AM 2/26/2004, you wrote: > > >Hi Pete and good morning... > > > > > > > > >Of course she went to hospital first, what happen was that I was >doing<snip> > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Pete > > > > > > > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, >spam messages,flame another member or swear. > > > > To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, >visit the groups' homepage: >Chinese Medicine/ click 'edit my >membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. > > > > To send an email to > > <Chinese Medicine- > from the email >account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still >recieve messages for a few days. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.