What is qi

[Guest guest]

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a

faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant

and has forgotten the gift. --Albert Einstein

 

 

, " Alon Marcus "

<alonmarcus@w...> wrote:

> I can find thousands of papers at this moment on Medline in which

Western scientists test CM herbal formulas for some Western

diagnostic feature or for some pharmaceutical molecule of interest.

In either case, how does this Western methodology support or refute

anything about CM theory?

>

> >>>>You are assuming that one needs to use a certain let say " RTC "

to test CM or gather evidence. I am not saying that, although clearly

it has many advantages and can be adopted for example to evaluate

multifactorial systems such as CM. I am saying however that

fundamentalism is continuing a belief system without or regardless of

evidence. I do believe in testing beyond personal feelings and

experience. CM has never formed a formal testing ground and relied of

empirical statements. I think that has many pit falls. I am sure for

example that every soldier for many thousand of years was convinced

(and their empirical daily experience confirmed) that when one drops

a ball over a wall to hit an invading soldier the bigger the ball the

faster it fell. However, only when Galileo came around this has

changed, and even then it took a long time for people (and especially

the church) to except the obvious.

> So for me fundamentalism is the belief that truth is already known

(i.e., traditionalism), regardless of, or no clear evidence. Being

insistent on methodology and evidence gathering is not

fundamentalism.

> Alon

>

>

[Guest guest]

Alon,

 

You are not in Israel, or southern Europe or Asia. You are in America. You

would do well to read the history of philosophy from Plato and Aristotle to the

present. Just check on titles of the Father Copelston compendium of history of

philosophy. When I was a philosophy major in the 60s at SUNY Binghamton, we

used to read Copelston's books to get a grip on translations of original texts.

You'll see a perfect dichotomy between European Idealism and British-American

Empiricism. Thus your statement when made here in the U.S. is indeed quite

false ... or at least a bit naive.

 

" Being insistent on methodology and evidence gathering is not fundamentalism. "

Alon

 

It would be nice to imagine that we live in a culture philosophically committed

to some kind of yin-yang balance between idealism and empiricism. We do not.

You, Alon, and I live at the very center of empiricist fundamentalism. I am a

Western scientist and teach Western science. But I'm conscious of noting as

Robert Newman has below, that I can still choose to see that empiricism (of the

kind you are insisting on) really only applies to a fairly recent evolution of

sciences that are just two centuries old and have mainly evolved in the U.S. and

northern Europe. It's an interesting development with lots of great tools and

technologies. However, to philosophically demand Western scientific

methodologies and evidence for all the work you carry out in Chinese medicine is

the very definition of fundamentalism, in my opinion. In counterpoint, to

blindly follow all sage advice of the ancient masters without any grounding in

practice is also a kind of fundamentalism. Finding the balance is the challenge

in a place as scientifically fundamentalist as America. People who can not

recognize America's scientific fundamentalism means they've got some reading and

meditation to do this winter. A lot of my American MD friends would consider

you a quack ... that's the kind of fundamentalism we're dealing with. Most of

my European MD friends would not consider you a quack.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

Merritt College, Asia Natural

 

 

-

plantboyman

Robert Newman wrote: The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind

is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has

forgotten the gift. --Albert Einstein

 

 

, >

Emmanuel wrote: I can find thousands of papers at this moment on Medline in

which Western scientists test CM herbal formulas for some Western diagnostic

feature or for some pharmaceutical molecule of interest. In either case, how

does this Western methodology support or refute anything about CM theory?

> >>>>

Alon wrote: You are assuming that one needs to use a certain let say " RTC " to

test CM or gather evidence. I am not saying that, although clearly it has many

advantages and can be adopted for example to evaluate multifactorial systems

such as CM. I am saying however that fundamentalism is continuing a belief

system without or regardless of

evidence. I do believe in testing beyond personal feelings and experience. CM

has never formed a formal testing ground and relied of empirical statements. I

think that has many pit falls. I am sure for example that every soldier for many

thousand of years was convinced (and their empirical daily experience confirmed)

that when one drops a ball over a wall to hit an invading soldier the bigger the

ball the

faster it fell. However, only when Galileo came around this has changed, and

even then it took a long time for people (and especially the church) to except

the obvious.

> So for me fundamentalism is the belief that truth is already known (i.e.,

traditionalism), regardless of, or no clear evidence. Being insistent on

methodology and evidence gathering is not fundamentalism.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

A lot of my American MD friends would consider you a quack ...

>>>Well i am a proud quack, that is actually what i call myself when asked

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

A lot of my American MD friends would consider you a quack ...

>>>Well i am a proud quack, that is actually what i call myself when asked

Alon

 

And I'm proud of you for saying so. You've got my support all the way.

 

Emmanuel

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Emmanuel Segmen "

<susegmen@i...> wrote:

> Alon,

 

When I was a philosophy major in the 60s at SUNY Binghamton, we used

to read Copelston's books to get a grip on translations of original

texts. You'll see a perfect dichotomy between European Idealism and

British-American Empiricism.

 

Emmanuel, this is just not correct,(given there are different

idealisms) the founding father of idealism, Berkeley, was from the

english speaking tradition and, more relevantly, the dominant

philosophy of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries in

the UK and US was idealism, such as that of Francis Bradley.

 

> Thus your statement when made here in the U.S. is indeed quite

false ... or at least a bit naive.

" Being insistent on methodology and evidence gathering is not

fundamentalism. " Alon

 

One might argue, albeit simplistically, that it is Idealism, the

doctrine which puts ideas first as creators or orderers of our

reality, which is intrinsically fundementalist whilst the scientific

method despite the human conservatism and resistance of scientists

will ultimately embrace change and the new.

 

> It would be nice to imagine that we live in a culture

philosophically committed to some kind of yin-yang balance between

idealism and empiricism.

 

By definition one cannot have two such metaphysical systems.

 

 

> You would do well to read the history of philosophy from Plato and

Aristotle to the present.

 

!!!

 

Simon

[Guest guest]

Simon,

 

After reading your remarks on Thomas Kuhn, I got the impression you were coming

from a pretty obscure position. If you think Berkeley is the father of

Idealism, you need to pick up a general undergraduate text book on Western

philosophy. Ever hear of a fellow called Immanuel Kant? In the Vienna Circle

that thought (German Idealism) stood in counter point to the thought of David

Hume (British Empiricism), an English gentleman. I believe you may have

overlooked 18th and 19th century philosophy. Remember the categorical

imperative in Kant's Critique of Pure Reason? It's a synthetic apriori view.

No empirical evidence for Kant's categorical imperative. Ringing any bells?

How about G.E. Moore and Wittgenstein which were logicians and the outgrowth of

empiricism. Back in the mid-60s European Continental philosophy was not even

taught in America at state universities as we were too empiricist in our

orientation to teach 20th century metaphysics arising from Husserl and

Heidegger.

 

I'm sorry, Simon, most American philosophy departments do not view Berkeley or

Bradley as even a blip on the radar screen compared to Descartes, Hume, Kant,

Hegel and Husserl. Nor did the Vienna Circle. Berkeley's one of the more

obscure philosophers of the recent centuries. The dominant English philosophers

were David Hume followed in time by G. E. Moore and then Wittgenstein. Bertrant

Russell was more influential as a social commentator. At any rate America has

definitely been the fundamentalist center of empiricism in the last half of the

20th century. I won't bother to quote basic text books. I was never

particularly attracted to British-American philosophy of recent centuries, but I

was more than hammered with it as a philosophy student and did not escape a

basic education in British-American Empiricism. Now that I've read your posts a

few times, I'm quite curious. Where on Earth did you obtain your notions about

the dominance of Berkeley and Bradley? At what institution did you study

philosophy? You can write to me off list if you wish.

 

In gratitude for your interest and remarks,

Emmanuel Segmen

-

Simon King

Saturday, September 27, 2003 1:48 AM

Re: what is qi

 

 

, " Emmanuel Segmen "

<susegmen@i...> wrote:

> Alon,

 

When I was a philosophy major in the 60s at SUNY Binghamton, we used

to read Copelston's books to get a grip on translations of original

texts. You'll see a perfect dichotomy between European Idealism and

British-American Empiricism.

 

Emmanuel, this is just not correct,(given there are different

idealisms) the founding father of idealism, Berkeley, was from the

english speaking tradition and, more relevantly, the dominant

philosophy of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries in

the UK and US was idealism, such as that of Francis Bradley.

 

> Thus your statement when made here in the U.S. is indeed quite

false ... or at least a bit naive.

" Being insistent on methodology and evidence gathering is not

fundamentalism. " Alon

 

One might argue, albeit simplistically, that it is Idealism, the

doctrine which puts ideas first as creators or orderers of our

reality, which is intrinsically fundementalist whilst the scientific

method despite the human conservatism and resistance of scientists

will ultimately embrace change and the new.

 

> It would be nice to imagine that we live in a culture

philosophically committed to some kind of yin-yang balance between

idealism and empiricism.

 

By definition one cannot have two such metaphysical systems.

 

 

> You would do well to read the history of philosophy from Plato and

Aristotle to the present.

 

!!!

 

Simon

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

One might argue, albeit simplistically, that it is Idealism, the

doctrine which puts ideas first as creators or orderers of our

reality, which is intrinsically fundementalist whilst the scientific

method despite the human conservatism and resistance of scientists

will ultimately embrace change and the new.

>>>This is all i am saying

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

At what institution did you study philosophy? You can write to me off list if

you wish.

>>>Please do on list, for me these are very interesting lessons in " philosophy " .

I have never studied the subject

thanks alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

At 8:48 AM +0000 9/27/03, Simon King wrote:

>One might argue, albeit simplistically, that it is Idealism, the

>doctrine which puts ideas first as creators or orderers of our

>reality, which is intrinsically fundementalist whilst the scientific

>method despite the human conservatism and resistance of scientists

>will ultimately embrace change and the new.

--

 

This appears to be a new definition of fundamentalism, almost

opposite to the accepted meaning, simplistic or not. Can you explain?

 

Rory

--

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

, " Emmanuel Segmen " wrote:

> Hi Z'ev,

> You and I seem to be among the few who observe this. >>>

 

 

 

Emmanuel:

 

I don't think this is an uncommon observation.

Knowing their motivations, what else would you expect them to do?

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

, " Emmanuel Segmen " wrote:

> Hi Z'ev,

> You and I seem to be among the few who observe this. >>>

 

 

 

Emmanuel:

 

I don't think this is an uncommon observation.

Knowing their motivations, what else would you expect them to do?

 

 

These are common observations of those heavily involved in molecular

medicine. It follows 'the law of the hammer.' If one only has a hammer, that

tool will

be used for many situations.

 

Will

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

These are common observations of those heavily involved in molecular

medicine. It follows 'the law of the hammer.' If one only has a hammer, that

tool will

be used for many situations.

>>>>More accurately everybody looks like a nail

Alon

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Jim,

 

Thanks, and a tip of my hat to you. I do know their motivations because I am

" them " ... or among " them " . Western scientific studies yields Western science

.... no matter what they (we) are looking at. If we look at Chinese medicine

with Western scientific tools, we'll get Western science out the other end of

the hopper. You could say that Qi does not flow through an HPLC machine. Or if

it does, it doesn't come out the other end. The ancient master (1930s-1940s) of

organic chemistry, Linus Pauling, never did get a chance to play mahjong with

the Yellow Emperor. I wonder how hard the Yellow Emperor would have laughed if

he watched me filter molecules through an HPLC column. I sometimes think about

that when I'm working in various labs ... I can kind of hear what Nietzsche

describes as the " laughter of the immortals " when ever I do chemistry. Maybe

it's the Yellow Emperor having a belly laugh. I sure hope I can do that for

him. The immortals seem quieter more intrigued when I dissect a human cadaver.

 

With all due respect,

Emmanuel Segmen

Merritt College, Asia Natural

 

 

-

James Ramholz

Monday, September 29, 2003 6:41 PM

Re: what is qi

 

 

, " Emmanuel Segmen " wrote:

> Hi Z'ev,

> You and I seem to be among the few who observe this. >>>

 

 

 

Emmanuel:

 

I don't think this is an uncommon observation.

Knowing their motivations, what else would you expect them to do?

 

 

Jim Ramholz

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Offered by Robert Newman

 

" The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful

servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the

gift. " --Albert Einstein

 

 

Robert,

 

As I go through my daily life of teaching science and working to bring Chinese

herbs to America, this quote above stands for me as the single most salient

point. I've written some essays that I call When Paradigms Collide, with

apologies to Orson Wells. By the way, Ken, I see parts of them circulating both

on the Web and in various publications as they are not copyrighted but rather

email letters written to various people. I feel as you do ... glad people can

use the thoughts. At any rate, Einstein's comments seem to express the nature

of the cultural collisions that I keep seeing. So, Robert, I thank you so very

much for your insightful presentation of this quote.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

Merritt College, Asia Natural

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I love it!

 

 

On Tuesday, September 30, 2003, at 02:09 PM, Emmanuel Segmen wrote:

 

> You could say that Qi does not flow through an HPLC machine. Or if it

> does, it doesn't come out the other end. The ancient master

> (1930s-1940s) of organic chemistry, Linus Pauling, never did get a

> chance to play mahjong with the Yellow Emperor.

>

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

there is a text on qi on the following website:

http://www.buqi.net/gb/index.html

which I thought might interest you.

greetings and happy new year!

Sofie-Ann

 

 

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release 1/8/04

[Guest guest]

Hello Sophie,

I remember you at the time were I was teaching at the London school of

traditional , and you were a student then.

You took every opportunities then to sell Bu Qi courses to the student

and teachers.

What you are doing on this mailing list is Spam, you are simply

advertising Bu Qi on this mailing list and I personally object to it.

I hope the moderators will consider my objection.

I have no problem with Bu Qi, it may be a very respectable system and

Dr Shen a very respectable man

The problem I have is with you taking every opportunities with flogging

it to everybody, and in particular in this mailing list

It is out of place, as was your previous attempt with patent formulae

for Diabetes

 

best Regards,

 

PJ

On Thursday, January 22, 2004, at 09:38 pm, Sofie, Daniel, Beatrice

and Anna wrote:

 

>

>

> Hi all,

>

> there is a text on qi on the following website:

> http://www.buqi.net/gb/index.html

> which I thought might interest you.

> greetings and happy new year!

> Sofie-Ann

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear,

> religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear.

>

> To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or

> none, visit the groupsí homepage:

> Chinese Medicine/ click

> ëedit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

>

> To send an email to

> <Chinese Medicine- > from the

> email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but

> will still recieve messages for a few days.

>

>

>

<image.tiff>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you PJ for your message.

 

Sofie did ask me if it was ok to post this web link as it does

contain info regarding a current thread 'what is Qi'. Unfortunately,

no direct web link is available for the exact web page being quoted

as the web site does not differentiate the web address being visited

between pages. Therefore what was the direct web link for me turns

out to be a standard index page for everyone else.

 

Since visiting the site the other day, the initial front page of the

English version has changed and now does not display the additional

links on the right hand side which house the information that was

intended for viewing by the group. This may explain members

perception of this being nothing but spam. I'm sure this is down to

technical errors with the web site and will hopefully be rectified

soon. I'll check it myself in a few days and will cut and paste the

question on `what is qi' into a group message rather than offer

another link.

 

This is the first time I've seen this system mentioned on this list,

so it has not been `flogged to death' quite yet here. I will keep a

look out for further reference to this system in the future PJ.

 

Attilio

(moderator)

 

Pierre jean cousin <heretix@b...> wrote:

> Hello Sophie,

> I remember you at the time were I was teaching at the London

school of

> traditional , and you were a student then.

> You took every opportunities then to sell Bu Qi courses to the

student

> and teachers.

> What you are doing on this mailing list is Spam, you are simply

> advertising Bu Qi on this mailing list and I personally object to

it.

> I hope the moderators will consider my objection.

> I have no problem with Bu Qi, it may be a very respectable system

and

> Dr Shen a very respectable man

> The problem I have is with you taking every opportunities with

flogging

> it to everybody, and in particular in this mailing list

> It is out of place, as was your previous attempt with patent

formulae

> for Diabetes

>

> best Regards,

>

> PJ

> On Thursday, January 22, 2004, at 09:38 pm, Sofie, Daniel,

Beatrice

> and Anna wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > there is a text on qi on the following website:

> > http://www.buqi.net/gb/index.html

> > which I thought might interest you.

> > greetings and happy new year!

> > Sofie-Ann

> >

> > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear,

> > religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear.

> >

> > To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest

or

> > none, visit the groupsí homepage:

> > Chinese Medicine/

click

> > ëedit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust

accordingly.

> >

> > To send an email to

> > <Chinese Medicine- > from

the

> > email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically

but

> > will still recieve messages for a few days.

> >

> >

> >

> <image.tiff>

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hello again Attilio,

Whenever people have a financial or vested interest in a Website or any

commercial concern, promoting it directly on a fairly large list of

well targeted potential customer look like spam to me

After all, all Sophie had to do was to was to copy and past any

interesting bit and mention the author (Dr Shen or whoever)

 

On the basis of what is going on here, I have written 4 books, all

available in standard bookshops in the UK and about 20 other countries,

should I be able to list them so my colleagues on this list can go and

buy them?

 

Let's try to remain focused on the purpose of this list, that is to

share and further or knowledge of acupuncture and TCM

 

Regards,

 

 

PJ

On Thursday, January 22, 2004, at 11:51 pm, wrote:

 

> Thank you PJ for your message.

>

> Sofie did ask me if it was ok to post this web link as it does

> contain info regarding a current thread 'what is Qi'. Unfortunately,

> no direct web link is available for the exact web page being quoted

> as the web site does not differentiate the web address being visited

> between pages. Therefore what was the direct web link for me turns

> out to be a standard index page for everyone else.

>

> Since visiting the site the other day, the initial front page of the

> English version has changed and now does not display the additional

> links on the right hand side which house the information that was

> intended for viewing by the group. This may explain members

> perception of this being nothing but spam. I'm sure this is down to

> technical errors with the web site and will hopefully be rectified

> soon. I'll check it myself in a few days and will cut and paste the

> question on `what is qi' into a group message rather than offer

> another link.

>

> This is the first time I've seen this system mentioned on this list,

> so it has not been `flogged to death' quite yet here. I will keep a

> look out for further reference to this system in the future PJ.

>

> Attilio

> (moderator)

>

> Pierre jean cousin <heretix@b...> wrote:

> > Hello Sophie,

> > I remember you at the time were I was teaching at the London

> school of

> > traditional , and you were a student then.

> > You took every opportunities then to sell Bu Qi courses to the

> student

> > and teachers.

> > What you are doing on this mailing list is Spam, you are simply

> > advertising Bu Qi on this mailing list and I personally object to

> it.

> > I hope the moderators will consider my objection.

> > I have no problem with Bu Qi, it may be a very respectable system

> and

> > Dr Shen a very respectable man

> > The problem I have is with you taking every opportunities with

> flogging

> > it to everybody, and in particular in this mailing list

> > It is out of place, as was your previous attempt with patent

> formulae

> > for Diabetes

> >

> > best Regards,

> >

> > PJ

> > On Thursday, January 22, 2004, at 09:38  pm, Sofie, Daniel,

> Beatrice

> > and Anna wrote:

> >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi all,

> > >

> > > there is a text on qi on the following website:

> > > http://www.buqi.net/gb/index.html

> > > which I thought might interest you.

> > > greetings and happy new year!

> > > Sofie-Ann

> > >

> > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear,

> > > religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear.

> > >

> > > To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest

> or

> > > none, visit the groupsí homepage:

> > > Chinese Medicine/

> click

> > > ëedit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust

> accordingly.

> > >

> > > To send an email to

> > > <Chinese Medicine- > from

> the

> > > email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically

> but

> > > will still recieve messages for a few days.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > <image.tiff>

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your message PJ. I've found the text i believe Sophie

was referring to (see below). As to the further comments you've made,

i'll action this OFF LIST, where all comments should be directed

rather than clogging up the group's flow.

 

Taken from: www.buqi.net

 

The word qi has entered Western consciousness because of increased

familiarity with traditional Chinese medicine, acupuncture, herbs and

qigong. Nearly everybody now knows or has heard of the word qi, but

its actual meaning remains a mystery for most Westerners.

Students often ask me this question: " What is qi? " Sometimes my

answer is: " qi = x or qi = ? " , because in Chinese qi

means 'invisible' or 'the indication of something unknown'. The

Chinese distinguish different kinds of qi, each having a different

meaning, therefore in books the meaning of qi can vary from page to

page or even from line to line.

 

Today the tendency is for people to contract qi into one concept and

thus mix a lot of different ideas, resulting in the loss of accurate

meaning.

 

For those who really wish to study the meaning of qi, I would suggest

the research of Chinese books that write about qi. However for most

people this is impossible.

 

To save you time I am offering you this text which contains the most

important concepts of qi and an overview of the evolution of Qigong

during the last fifteen years.

 

The word 'Qi'

 

The Chinese word is expressed in the West by 'Qi', 'Chi', or 'Ki'.

The first version is based on the Chinese alphabet, the second is the

way it is pronounced in Chinese, and the third is the Japanese

pronunciation. We will use 'qi'. With the increasing popularity in

the West of acupuncture, massage, herbal medicine and Taijiquan, the

word has come into common use, normally with the sense 'vital

energy'. But in fact 'qi' has many meanings in Chinese, because China

is a vast country with an immensely long history. As a current

Chinese-English dictionary says, 'the concept of qi can be found in

different scientific disciplines such as meteorology, medicine,

philosophy and others'. We hope that this text will provide the means

to an understanding of the Chinese concept of qi.

 

Qi: the most ancient written evidence

 

It is possible that some of the texts that refer to qi are more than

four thousand years old, but this is difficult to prove and the

debate is far from closed. However, there is a general consensus that

Guoyu, Zhouyu, a historical work dealing with the Zhou Dynasty, is

the most ancient book that refers to qi. It dates from 2,600 years

ago. In this book we find the following:

 

'During the second year of the reign of King Yie of the Western Zhou

dynasty, this region was often stricken by earthquakes. Concerning

the earthquakes Yangfu (the uncle of King Yie) said: 'They are caused

by an imbalance of the qi of the cosmos'.'

It is interesting that 780 years before Christ the concept of qi was

used to explain the mechanism of an earthquake.

 

Since the concept is so ancient, and because, as we have said, China

is so big, with many different regions and cultural influences, the

meaning of qi varies from book to book, depending on the period in

which each book was written, the region where it comes from, and the

scientific discipline from which it originated. Even different

chapters in the same book can differ in their concept of qi.

Moreover, it is not necessarily correct to attempt to reduce all of

these different versions to one system: this would be like taking a

number of beautiful pictures and crumpling them up together into a

ball. Any deep study of the concept must keep this very much in mind.

 

Qi in the Chinese written language

 

One Chinese tradition tells us that Chong Ji, who lived during the

Huanti period (4700 years ago), composed the Chinese characters which

are now known in English as the seal characters. These characters

were called zhuan. The Chinese written language evolved for more than

2000 years, and was subject to a number of changes. Various notations

arose. King Xuan of the Zhou dynasty and the first Emperor of the Qin

dynasty each united the Chinese characters into a coherent system,

the first called big zhuan, the second small zhuan. Nowadays when

making seals Chinese often use zhuan characters. Therefore the usual

translation of zhuan is 'seal characters'.

 

Attilio

 

Pierre jean cousin <heretix@b...> wrote:

> Hello again Attilio,

> Whenever people have a financial or vested interest in a Website or

any

> commercial concern, promoting it directly on a fairly large list of

> well targeted potential customer look like spam to me

> After all, all Sophie had to do was to was to copy and past any

> interesting bit and mention the author (Dr Shen or whoever)

>

> On the basis of what is going on here, I have written 4 books, all

> available in standard bookshops in the UK and about 20 other

countries,

> should I be able to list them so my colleagues on this list can go

and

> buy them?

>

> Let's try to remain focused on the purpose of this list, that is to

> share and further or knowledge of acupuncture and TCM

>

> Regards,

>

>

> PJ