Pitting odema in the legs in summer

[Guest guest]

Hi

 

I am Claire, and I have been practising acupuncture and chinese herbal medicine for nearly 6 years now. I have a question that I am hoping some one may be able to answer for me. On a number of occasions now I have had patients come to me with pitting oedema, mostly of the lower limbs, which worsens in hot weather. Some of these patients are even yang deficient. So why should the oedema be worse in hot weather? Can anyone enlighten me?Reduce spam in your inbox with MSN 8's intelligent junk e-mail filters.

[Guest guest]

Hi Claire,

 

I've noticed this, too. In fact I've noticed edema even in children when taking a warm or heating and very rich diet including a lot of meat like lamb, chicken, etc. These are notably warm foods. Yet, it's worse in people who don't move ... don't expend their Qi. Increased morning exercise, even going for a walk, seems to be relieving. Heat in general seems to lead to stagnation. I'm thinking of heat cramps. Perhaps someone more insightful than I (I'm thinking Fernando Bernal) might put their finger on the CM mechanism.

 

Respectfully,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

 

 

Hi

 

I am Claire, and I have been practising acupuncture and chinese herbal medicine for nearly 6 years now. I have a question that I am hoping some one may be able to answer for me. On a number of occasions now I have had patients come to me with pitting oedema, mostly of the lower limbs, which worsens in hot weather. Some of these patients are even yang deficient. So why should the oedema be worse in hot weather? Can anyone enlighten me?

 

Reduce spam in your inbox with MSN 8's intelligent junk e-mail filters. Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Try SP M/W, with 2-in. Seirins needled superficially

at a 10% angle upwards along the meridian. I do liquid

moxa b/c I work in a medical bldg. This is for the

symptoms. The " money point " seems to be the SP 9.

JG

--- Emmanuel Segmen <susegmen wrote:

> Hi Claire,

>

> I've noticed this, too. In fact I've noticed edema

> even in children when taking a warm or heating and

> very rich diet including a lot of meat like lamb,

> chicken, etc. These are notably warm foods. Yet,

> it's worse in people who don't move ... don't expend

> their Qi. Increased morning exercise, even going

> for a walk, seems to be relieving. Heat in general

> seems to lead to stagnation. I'm thinking of heat

> cramps. Perhaps someone more insightful than I (I'm

> thinking Fernando Bernal) might put their finger on

> the CM mechanism.

>

> Respectfully,

> Emmanuel Segmen

>

>

>

> Hi

>

> I am Claire, and I have been practising

> acupuncture and chinese herbal medicine for nearly 6

> years now. I have a question that I am hoping some

> one may be able to answer for me. On a number of

> occasions now I have had patients come to me with

> pitting oedema, mostly of the lower limbs, which

> worsens in hot weather. Some of these patients are

> even yang deficient. So why should the oedema be

> worse in hot weather? Can anyone enlighten me?

>

>

>

 

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>

 

>

[Guest guest]

Hi,

the pitting oedema usually worsens both in hot weather and after a long

standing or walking, and is better in the morning, after the sleep. so, I

think it is a qi or yang deficiency (better in the morning, after the

sleep) that leads to a qi stagnation in the channels. qi stagnation

can leads to a hot syndrome, so the oedema worsens in hot weather.

I'd use CV9/Shuifen and SP9/Yinlingquan (reducing method, for eliminating

the oedema), KI3/Taixi and CV6/Qihai (tonifying method, for the qi

deficiency).

Vito Marino

Palermo, Italy

 

At 22.30 20/01/04, you wrote:

Hi

 

I am Claire, and I have been practising acupuncture and chinese herbal

medicine for nearly 6 years now. I have a question that I am hoping

some one may be able to answer for me. On a number of occasions now

I have had patients come to me with pitting oedema, mostly of the lower

limbs, which worsens in hot weather. Some of these patients are

even yang deficient. So why should the oedema be worse in hot

weather? Can anyone enlighten me?

 

Reduce spam in your inbox with

MSN 8's intelligent

junk e-mail filters.

Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear,

religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear.

To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none,

visit the groups’ homepage:

Chinese Medicine/

click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

To send an email to

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[Guest guest]

Claire Wrote:

 

Hi

 

I am Claire, and I have been practising acupuncture and chinese herbal

medicine for nearly 6 years now. I have a question that I am hoping some

one may be able to answer for me. On a number of occasions now I have had

patients come to me with pitting oedema, mostly of the lower limbs, which

worsens in hot weather. Some of these patients are even yang deficient. So

why should the oedema be worse in hot weather? Can anyone enlighten me?

 

_________________________________--

 

Hi Claire,

 

I would welcome the opportunity to share some of my perceptions as to what

is going on. As I am sure would ,many others.

You mention a number of patients with similar symptoms. It is my opinion

that we would have to look at each one individually to make sense of what

is going on.

 

If you can dig up the file for one of them and provide date of birth and

major symptoms we could use the patient as an example.

 

salvador

 

_______________

Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo

 

 

Hi

 

I am Claire, and I have been practising acupuncture and chinese herbal medicine for nearly 6 years now. I have a question that I am hoping some one may be able to answer for me. On a number of occasions now I have had patients come to me with pitting oedema, mostly of the lower limbs, which worsens in hot weather. Some of these patients are even yang deficient. So why should the oedema be worse in hot weather? Can anyone enlighten me?Reduce spam in your inbox with MSN 8's intelligent junk e-mail filters.

 

 

Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear.

 

To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

 

To send an email to

<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

IMO, situations such as this bring to light the need to cultivate subtlety and

depth in

clinical thinking. When we speak in broad terms, such as yin and yang, it is

easy to

overlook the manifest multi-dimensional complexity of the yin/yang dynamic.

There

is always yin within yang, and yang within yin. Yin is always in a dynamic

state of

changing to or interacting with or generating yang... and vice versa, and so on.

Moreover, we should always be aware that our perspective, the context in which

we

view a given situation, is always limited to some extent, and that by broadening

the

perspective to see aspects and dimensions of reality from a more expansive

vantage

point, we open our awareness to hitherto unseen subtleties.

 

This is of course why the juxtaposition and juggling of CM's multiple diagnostic

paradigms - zang fu, five phase, channel theory, san jiao, qi/xue/jin-ye, etc.

etc. - is

so crucial, so challenging, and so rewarding. And I dare say that as

non-Chinese

practitioners we also bring to the table other perspectives, both modern and

classical

in origin, that are capable of both confounding and clarifying.

 

So when we see apparently conflicting signs and symptoms, such as yang xu signs

together with symptoms that are exacerbated in hot weather, this inspires us to

step

back and take another look, and another look, and another look. Flip the

pancake

and watch it as it flies. Look from top down, bottom up, outside in, inside

out. Let

the focus blur a bit and see the field; forsake the field and split hairs.

 

This is essentially what Emmanuel and Vito are doing as they extrapolate, each

in his

own way, from yang xu to inactivity to stagnation to heat. Yang within yin

within

yin... Someone else may play with this in a different way, taking into account

different dimensions, as called for by the case and the context.

 

So, having said all that - though it may be elementary, it still craved

articulation - I

agree with Salvador: let's look at examples.

 

Simcha

 

> Claire Wrote:

>

> Hi

>

> I am Claire, and I have been practising acupuncture and chinese herbal

> medicine for nearly 6 years now. I have a question that I am hoping some

> one may be able to answer for me. On a number of occasions now I have had

> patients come to me with pitting oedema, mostly of the lower limbs, which

> worsens in hot weather. Some of these patients are even yang deficient. So

> why should the oedema be worse in hot weather? Can anyone enlighten me?

>

> _________________________________--

>

> Hi Claire,

>

> I would welcome the opportunity to share some of my perceptions as to what

> is going on. As I am sure would ,many others.

> You mention a number of patients with similar symptoms. It is my opinion

> that we would have to look at each one individually to make sense of what

> is going on.

>

> If you can dig up the file for one of them and provide date of birth and

> major symptoms we could use the patient as an example.

>

> salvador

>

> _______________

> Express yourself with cool new emoticons http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/myemo

[Guest guest]

I am interested in this case. John, would you please explain what the

notation " M/W " in your reply refers to? I'm not familiar with it and would

like to understand your reply. I've never been much good with shorthand

acronyms. Thanks.

 

Judy Saxe, L.Ac.

--

QingTing Acupuncture & Chinese Herbal Medicine

Denver, Colorado

 

> Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:20:06 -0800 (PST)

> John Garbarini <johnlg_2000

> Re: Pitting odema in the legs in summer

>

> Try SP M/W, with 2-in. Seirins needled superficially

> at a 10% angle upwards along the meridian. I do liquid

> moxa b/c I work in a medical bldg. This is for the

> symptoms. The " money point " seems to be the SP 9.

> JG

[Guest guest]

M/W means metal, water points of the meridian. I've

done this procedure 3 times for women with yin (lower

body edema), and their edema dissipated after, in sone

cases, as much as 30 years. With a little liquid moxa

and a heat lamp, since my bldg. has other people who

think you're smoking pot.

JG

--- Judy Saxe <jsaxe wrote:

> I am interested in this case. John, would you

> please explain what the

> notation " M/W " in your reply refers to? I'm not

> familiar with it and would

> like to understand your reply. I've never been much

> good with shorthand

> acronyms. Thanks.

>

> Judy Saxe, L.Ac.

> --

> QingTing Acupuncture & Chinese Herbal Medicine

> Denver, Colorado

>

> > Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:20:06 -0800 (PST)

> > John Garbarini <johnlg_2000

> > Re: Pitting odema in the legs in summer

> >

> > Try SP M/W, with 2-in. Seirins needled

> superficially

> > at a 10% angle upwards along the meridian. I do

> liquid

> > moxa b/c I work in a medical bldg. This is for the

> > symptoms. The " money point " seems to be the SP 9.

> > JG

>

>

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Thanks, Vito. Clear and concise. I for one will think about this and practice it so see the effects.

 

In gratitude,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

Hi,the pitting oedema usually worsens both in hot weather and after a long standing or walking, and is better in the morning, after the sleep. so, I think it is a qi or yang deficiency (better in the morning, after the sleep) that leads to a qi stagnation in the channels. qi stagnation can leads to a hot syndrome, so the oedema worsens in hot weather.I'd use CV9/Shuifen and SP9/Yinlingquan (reducing method, for eliminating the oedema), KI3/Taixi and CV6/Qihai (tonifying method, for the qi deficiency).Vito MarinoPalermo, ItalyAt 22.30 20/01/04, you wrote:

Hi I am Claire, and I have been practising acupuncture and chinese herbal medicine for nearly 6 years now. I have a question that I am hoping some one may be able to answer for me. On a number of occasions now I have had patients come to me with pitting oedema, mostly of the lower limbs, which worsens in hot weather. Some of these patients are even yang deficient. So why should the oedema be worse in hot weather? Can anyone enlighten me?

 

Reduce spam in your inbox with MSN 8's intelligent junk e-mail filters. Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days.