Guest guest Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 " kenrose2008 " <kenrose2008> wrote: > However, consider this. When you are > forced to get down to brass tacks, the > details of legislation, regulation, etc. > and so forth, you'll find that one of > the items that needs to be in the packet > is something akin to scientific evidence. > > I'm not talking about specific requirements, > but the general sense, documents need to > be brought into existence that demonstrate > that there is something going on here that > can be nailed down in some sort of terms > that can be embodied in a piece of legislation. I think that within any legislation involving medicine, certain attributes of a particular healthcare have to be quantified and measured in order to give it substance. Otherwise how can a piece of legislation be directed to something that cannot be measured and therefore in technical terms cannot exist? If this is the case, how can we measure qi? Getting back to 'what is qi'? I'll start the ball rolling by saying that qi can be anything you want it to be. This I'm sure will annoy alot of people, but isn't it energy/mass, that vibrates at different levels? Attilio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Attilio, Your first question is a good one, primarily because it raises so many others. How can we measure qi? Well, I propose that we note this one down and table it until we have taken a closer look at what qi is. OK? > > I think that within any legislation involving medicine, certain > attributes of a particular healthcare have to be quantified and > measured in order to give it substance. Otherwise how can a piece of > legislation be directed to something that cannot be measured and > therefore in technical terms cannot exist? If this is the case, how > can we measure qi? > > Getting back to 'what is qi'? I'll start the ball rolling by saying > that qi can be anything you want it to be. This I'm sure will annoy > alot of people, but isn't it energy/mass, that vibrates at different > levels? Without a moment's hesitation I can say that beyond a shadow of doubt qi is not energy/mass that vibrates at different levels. Throughout thousands of years of recorded thoughts on the subject of qi, what it is, how it functions, and so on, there has never been such an assertion made by Chinese writers that I have ever seen. Only in the modern era have such statements emerged, mainly in English and other foreign literature and only subsequently in Chinese literature that essentially seeks to emulate foreign expressions in the hope of being more easily understood by non-Chinese. All of this equation of qi and energy is a big mistake, no matter who is making it. Qi is not energy. Period. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 --- " " wrote: > Getting back to 'what is qi'? I'll start the ball rolling by saying > that qi can be anything you want it to be. This I'm sure will annoy > alot of people, but isn't it energy/mass, that vibrates at > different levels? I'll throw the ball in another corner: " Qi is unsubstantial and is the dynamics of things, manifested in the substantial world " Alwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Dear Ken, I remember when I was in school, I was required to write a paper on the Western " theories " underlying qi and the function of acupuncture. We had to include at least 3 different ones, and then state which one we ascribed to. This took quite a lot of research. I found them all piecemeal and not fully convincing, and I said so in my paper. I was marked down a full grade for not choosing a position, even though I made it clear I found the evidence insufficient to establish a solid position, although I also said that all the theories could be true. I assume that the purpose of the paper was to prepare us for defending CM in Western terms, but it seemed unfair to me at the time that I should be penalized for the insufficiency of Western ideas on the subject and my refusal to accept what I considered an incomplete statement. Oh well. Pat Chinese Medicine , " kenrose2008 " <kenrose2008> wrote: > Attilio, > > Your first question is a good one, primarily > because it raises so many others. How can we > measure qi? Well, I propose that we note this > one down and table it until we have taken a > closer look at what qi is. > > OK? > > > > I think that within any legislation involving medicine, certain > > attributes of a particular healthcare have to be quantified and > > measured in order to give it substance. Otherwise how can a piece > of > > legislation be directed to something that cannot be measured and > > therefore in technical terms cannot exist? If this is the case, how > > can we measure qi? > > > > Getting back to 'what is qi'? I'll start the ball rolling by saying > > that qi can be anything you want it to be. This I'm sure will annoy > > alot of people, but isn't it energy/mass, that vibrates at > different > > levels? > > Without a moment's hesitation I can say > that beyond a shadow of doubt qi is > not energy/mass that vibrates at different > levels. > > Throughout thousands of years of recorded > thoughts on the subject of qi, what it > is, how it functions, and so on, there > has never been such an assertion made > by Chinese writers that I have ever seen. > > Only in the modern era have such statements > emerged, mainly in English and other foreign > literature and only subsequently in Chinese > literature that essentially seeks to emulate > foreign expressions in the hope of being more > easily understood by non-Chinese. > > All of this equation of qi and energy is > a big mistake, no matter who is making it. > > Qi is not energy. > > Period. > > Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 I had I think, ok response to describing qi as it looks in the radical. The stream coming off a bowl of rice. As its something healthy and inate in things that can be nurtured and manipulated to the human's advantage. The talk of biosemiotics, electrcal/chemical, nuero/humoral, great mind etc., are interesting, but everythig else shares those characteristics too. Also for me ,I like the down home feeling of the steam analogy. Other teachers that I respect have pointed to concentrations of qi, as in the mitochondria and so on, but that makes it too easy for people to think geographically, as in an organ or other structures that are being rebuilt all the time (by qi), to overlook the dynamic nature, and universal influences, and personal influences that affect its production and flow. Chinese Medicine , " patethridge " <pat.ethridge@c...> wrote: > Dear Ken, > > I remember when I was in school, I was required to write a paper on > the Western " theories " underlying qi and the function of > acupuncture. We had to include at least 3 different ones, and then > state which one we ascribed to. This took quite a lot of research. > I found them all piecemeal and not fully convincing, and I said so > in my paper. > > Qi is not energy. > > > > Period. > > > > Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 Pat, We'll make a note on your permanent record. Your experience is probably quite representative of the kind of interface that students experience when they go to really think about the subject they're studying. Not to worry. We're all still in one piece and can think what we will. So now seems to be as good a time as any to take the bull by the horns and find out what we're really talking about. But as you imply, it just isn't something that we can do all by ourselves. It's a group activity, or it is nothing at all. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.