AOMNC bulletin on Ma Huang

[Guest guest]

Dear Attilio

 

AOMNC (Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine National Coalition) has been in DIRECT communication with the FDA.

 

The AP/OM rofession needs to be extremely cautious and guarded in relation to the TRUE intent of certain over-controlling powers.

 

Let us be CLEAR.........this apparent & possible momentary exemption of traditional Chinese herbal formulations does not SHOW the 'true intent' which lies hidden beneath this SHOWING.

 

There is ANOTHER shoe that hasn't dropped yet.

 

Richard Freiberg, OMD, NMD

Founder/Director AOMNC

www.aomnc.com

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you Richard for your email. I respect your position, and

although you may be right (i really don't know), please lets not

turn this into another intense round of exchanges between the AAOM

and the AOMNC camps like we had some months back. We need to work

together even if we have different views.

 

Together we stand, divided we fall.

 

Attilio

 

acudoc11@a... wrote:

> Dear Attilio

>

> AOMNC (Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine National Coalition) has

been in DIRECT

> communication with the FDA.

>

> The AP/OM rofession needs to be extremely cautious and guarded in

relation to

> the TRUE intent of certain over-controlling powers.

>

> Let us be CLEAR.........this apparent & possible momentary

exemption of

> traditional Chinese herbal formulations does not SHOW the 'true

intent' which lies

> hidden beneath this SHOWING.

>

> There is ANOTHER shoe that hasn't dropped yet.

>

> Richard Freiberg, OMD, NMD

> Founder/Director AOMNC

> www.aomnc.com

[Guest guest]

The medical industry is run by the Rockefellers,

DuPonts, and other VERY BIG, wealthy, powerful people

who want to eradicate alt. med from the Earth. Yes,

the OTHER shoe has NOT dropped yet. Absolutely...

JG

--- <attiliodalberto

wrote:

> Thank you Richard for your email. I respect your

> position, and

> although you may be right (i really don't know),

> please lets not

> turn this into another intense round of exchanges

> between the AAOM

> and the AOMNC camps like we had some months back. We

> need to work

> together even if we have different views.

>

> Together we stand, divided we fall.

>

> Attilio

>

> acudoc11@a... wrote:

> > Dear Attilio

> >

> > AOMNC (Acupuncture & Oriental Medicine National

> Coalition) has

> been in DIRECT

> > communication with the FDA.

> >

> > The AP/OM rofession needs to be extremely cautious

> and guarded in

> relation to

> > the TRUE intent of certain over-controlling

> powers.

> >

> > Let us be CLEAR.........this apparent & possible

> momentary

> exemption of

> > traditional Chinese herbal formulations does not

> SHOW the 'true

> intent' which lies

> > hidden beneath this SHOWING.

> >

> > There is ANOTHER shoe that hasn't dropped yet.

> >

> > Richard Freiberg, OMD, NMD

> > Founder/Director AOMNC

> > www.aomnc.com

>

>

 

 

 

 

Hotjobs: Enter the " Signing Bonus " Sweepstakes

http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus

[Guest guest]

Hi Attilio

 

My post wasn't meant to get into any rounds of exchanges with anyone..... but to insure that a more completeand realistic picture be told about the FDAs herbal - ma huang (ephedra alkaloid) attack.

 

When it is stated that the other shoe hasn't dropped yet.....be assured that the 'powers that be' have no intention of being kind to TCM herbal formulas or TCM practitioners.

 

Any comments otherwise.... is wishful and foolish thinking.

 

Richard

 

 

Thank you Richard for your email. I respect your position, and

although you may be right (i really don't know), please lets not

turn this into another intense round of exchanges between the AAOM

and the AOMNC camps like we had some months back. We need to work

together even if we have different views.

 

Together we stand, divided we fall.

 

Attilio

[Guest guest]

John

 

You are sooooo right on target.

 

This attack on ephedra alkaloids is after certain aspects under dietary issues...... while other attacks - momentarily - stay hidden so as to surprise TCM at some future date. Bet on it.

 

Richard

 

 

a message dated 1/10/04 11:11:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, johnlg_2000 writes:

 

The medical industry is run by the Rockefellers,

DuPonts, and other VERY BIG, wealthy, powerful people

who want to eradicate alt. med from the Earth. Yes,

the OTHER shoe has NOT dropped yet. Absolutely...

JG

[Guest guest]

All righty then. We are in agreement. What are we to do then?

 

Chris

 

In a message dated 1/10/2004 5:37:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, acudoc11 writes:

Hi AttilioMy post wasn't meant to get into any rounds of exchanges with anyone..... but to insure that a more completeand realistic picture be told about the FDAs herbal - ma huang (ephedra alkaloid) attack.When it is stated that the other shoe hasn't dropped yet.....be assured that the 'powers that be' have no intention of being kind to TCM herbal formulas or TCM practitioners. Any comments otherwise.... is wishful and foolish thinking.Richard

Thank you Richard for your email. I respect your position, and although you may be right (i really don't know), please lets not turn this into another intense round of exchanges between the AAOM and the AOMNC camps like we had some months back. We need to work together even if we have different views. Together we stand, divided we fall.Attilio

[Guest guest]

Attilio refers to doing things together. We all wish it were so.

Sorry to say that there hasn't been such an occurrence in over 30 years.

That was one of the key reasons for the formation of AOMNC......

*strongly supporting and moving the Federal Acupuncture Bill forward - now with over 42 co-sponsors in the US House of Representatives;

* strongly supporting and moving forward a level playing field towards non-discriminatory healthcare reimbursement practices with the upcoming Federal lawsuit;

* and addressing the hidden issues of these latest attacks on herbs.

 

So..... no one complains that this is commercial spam......contact me directly.

 

Richard

 

 

Subj: Re: Re: AOMNC bulletin on Ma Huang

1/10/04 7:35:46 PM Eastern Standard Time

Musiclear

Reply-to: Chinese Medicine

Chinese Medicine

Sent from the Internet

 

All righty then. We are in agreement. What are we to do then?

 

Chris

In a message dated 1/10/2004 5:37:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, acudoc11 writes:

 

Hi Attilio

 

My post wasn't meant to get into any rounds of exchanges with anyone..... but to insure that a more completeand realistic picture be told about the FDAs herbal - ma huang (ephedra alkaloid) attack.

 

When it is stated that the other shoe hasn't dropped yet.....be assured that the 'powers that be' have no intention of being kind to TCM herbal formulas or TCM practitioners.

 

Any comments otherwise.... is wishful and foolish thinking.

 

Richard

 

 

Thank you Richard for your email. I respect your position, and

although you may be right (i really don't know), please lets not

turn this into another intense round of exchanges between the AAOM

and the AOMNC camps like we had some months back. We need to work

together even if we have different views.

 

Together we stand, divided we fall.

 

Attilio

[Guest guest]

Calling them powerful gives "them" control, so lets not do that, OK? True power, by the way, is not controlling others, it is knowing your own path.

Also, the allopathic medical institution can not prevail against the desires of the people. If the people want alternative medicine they will have it. It also can not prevail against the influx and outflux of the yin and yang nature of the universe. If they are our opposites....then what happens?

 

Remember that the Chiropractors sued the allopaths and won. Also remember that in the state of California, L.Ac's are considered physicians.

I am not saying that we should do nothing, quite the contrary. We should move forward and protect our medicine.

Take carePennyJohn Garbarini <johnlg_2000 wrote:

The medical industry is run by the Rockefellers,DuPonts, and other VERY BIG, wealthy, powerful peoplewho want to eradicate alt. med from the Earth. Yes,the OTHER shoe has NOT dropped yet. Absolutely... JG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-Penny L. Baxley A.S., C.T.H.

The Academy of Chinese Culture and Health Sciences

MSTCM program for primary care physicians

-If you lived in your heart, you would always be home.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/11/2004 2:55:15 AM Eastern Standard Time, pennybaxley writes:

 

Calling them powerful gives "them" control, so lets not do that, OK? True power, by the way, is not controlling others, it is knowing your own path.

Also, the allopathic medical institution can not prevail against the desires of the people. If the people want alternative medicine they will have it.

 

>>>>> Chris replies: I know you are trying to see the higher point of view here, but honestly, your comments come across a little simplistic. Sure, if people want alternative medicine, they will get it. But if the FDA has their way, the alternative will be a multiple vitamin with only the RDA in it. Do you consider that a good alternative?

 

 

 

It also can not prevail against the influx and outflux of the yin and yang nature of the universe. If they are our opposites....then what happens?

 

>>>>>Chris Replies: I agree there is a universal influx and outflow. Universal time is rather slow. How long do you want to wait?

 

 

 

Remember that the Chiropractors sued the allopaths and won.

 

Chris replies: That is true, BUT, they had a very strong organization and a well funded legal front. Where are we at this point?

 

 

Also remember that in the state of California, L.Ac's are considered physicians.

 

Chris replies: And that makes what difference to the FDA as they regulate herbs out of legal existence?

 

 

I am not saying that we should do nothing, quite the contrary. We should move forward and protect our medicine.

Take carePenny

 

Chris replies: I know this reply was a little hard, but I am hoping to get a serious point across and your email seemed to be a bit like an outrage with it's head in the sand.

The FDA and it's tactics have been defeated in the past. They were defeated because of well organized and well funded legal teams. Without that level of challenge, they will do what they want. No matter what the people say.

As a matter of fact, even though they have clearly been defeated and the courts mandated they do certain things, they have not. The victors of these cases have had to repeatedly go back to court and in some cases, the FDA has all but refused to do what the courts have mandated.

They will attack one compound after another sighting cases of stupid people doing stupid things and were hurt. Eventually, without a well organized team, they will take many our products off the shelves. Take a look at Europe. How many of the herbs we take for granted are prescription only. Check it out. You will be surprised.

I strongly believe that this is the time to join together with others in the health industry and map out a plan to guarantee public access to health promoting products. Nutritional research is still in its infancy, and over time, the knowledge gleaned from this research will change the way healthcare is carried out in the US. Preventative maintenance will the norm. What we consider to be drug intervention will be greatly diminished, because few will want it.

There are a couple organization that have been the backbone of our right to choose. The Life Extension Foundation is one that has continually challenged the FDA and won. As you pointed out, the Chiropractors have also won major battles with the FDA.

I am suggesting we join together financially with a national Acupuncture organization to support the legal battle ahead and that Acupuncture organization join with already successful organizations like Life Extension Foundation to push the right to choose for both the lay people and practitioners of health.

***My wife is a Mental health counselor who does hypnosis. A few years back they wanted to take the right to practice hypnosis away from non licensed people. The hypnotists joined the AFL-CIO by starting a National Federation of Hypnotists union. It was easy and a bunch of Florida Hypnotists joined by paying dues. That money went directly into the defense team and was used for lobbyists in Tallahassee.

In the end, the Hypnotists won. But only because of the united front and an organized lobbyists who were in the faces of the legislators.

I have talked to the AFL-CIO about the Acupuncturist joining and they are very excited about the possibility. They have a huge legal team and lots of lobbyists that will bring our concerns to the legislators.*****

Only in a united front will we keep the rights we have come to enjoy. With the right emphasis, we can expand the rights of people to choose.

I believe by joining an already active and successful organization like the AFL-CIO, we will ultimately change the way people look at health care in this country.

What say ye??

 

Chris

[Guest guest]

Chris,

 

Your call for action is timely and

clearly necessary. When it is the time

to act, those who do not pay the price.

No amount of arguing matters one slightest

bit. For those who cannot fathom what

youo and I are talking about, all we might add

is, Wait and see.

 

My life seems to be filled with synchronicity.

This morning I've just been asked by

a colleague at the China Academy of TCM

to help them select foreign participants

in an upcoming meeting to review the

first phase of their work to develop

a standard bi-ligual (Chinese-Engligh)

gloss of TCM terminology. If people are

familiar with CAOM, there has been a series

of articles on this project and related

issues, going back to 2000.

 

When I look down the path of political

action, I see the biggest hurdle that

anyone will have to cross who wants to

enter the race as the language and communication

barrier. That's the focus of the project

I'm working on in New Mexico now, and

it's a point that I urge you and anyone

getting involved now in a more self-determined

way take a while to contemplate.

 

How is anyone going to positively affect

the regulatory environment unless and until

someone is able to develop a clear, comprehensible

statement of who we are and what we do?

 

Keep in mind that for the vast majority

of the public at large, the response to

Chinese medicine remains, " Huh? "

 

And when you talk about regulations,

you're talking about the public at large.

 

Some serious strategic thinking needs

to be done, and it needs to include

a figure out to the Tower of Babel

configuration in which the field currently

finds itself.

 

It's really a poor plan for a general

to march into war with troops who don't

all speak the same language and can't

communicate easily among themselves.

 

And the ultimate battle remains in the clinic

where results delivered and documented

in growing numbers will prove to be

the best strategy and the best tactic,

when all is said and done.

 

If you or anyone on the list is interested

in getting involved, please let me know.

I'll be drawing up a list of participants

to recommend to my colleagues in Beijing.

 

Thanks for waving the flag.

 

In fact the battle has been raging for years

now. It's just breaking out into clearer

view at present.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Dear Ken,

 

I love the way you always manage to bring things around the subject

of language. This one time I think you're *accent* is off. In fact,

you've detracted from the topic at hand which is MA HUANG and the

FDA. By the time we as a group speak the same " language " , which I

think you're referring to Wiseman's PD, we would have lost control of

our own medicine.

 

At this stage of the play, the language that really matters is

political in nature. Financial support. Big bucks. When amongst

ourselves we all may speak the same languge, but, when traveling to

FDAland, our language would be like speaking in tongues. They could

care less what we mean by qi and jing and vacuity or deficiency. We

need to speak a language THEY understand! When I go back to Chicago

and visit the 'hood' I speak like the locals, walk like the locals;

there are no problems. To speak differently would put me as an

outsider and in certain peril. Do you get my drift?

 

 

~fernando

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " kenrose2008 "

<kenrose2008> wrote:

> Chris,

>

> Your call for action is timely and

> clearly necessary. When it is the time

> to act, those who do not pay the price.

> No amount of arguing matters one slightest

> bit. For those who cannot fathom what

> youo and I are talking about, all we might add

> is, Wait and see.

>

> My life seems to be filled with synchronicity.

> This morning I've just been asked by

> a colleague at the China Academy of TCM

> to help them select foreign participants

> in an upcoming meeting to review the

> first phase of their work to develop

> a standard bi-ligual (Chinese-Engligh)

> gloss of TCM terminology. If people are

> familiar with CAOM, there has been a series

> of articles on this project and related

> issues, going back to 2000.

>

> When I look down the path of political

> action, I see the biggest hurdle that

> anyone will have to cross who wants to

> enter the race as the language and communication

> barrier. That's the focus of the project

> I'm working on in New Mexico now, and

> it's a point that I urge you and anyone

> getting involved now in a more self-determined

> way take a while to contemplate.

>

> How is anyone going to positively affect

> the regulatory environment unless and until

> someone is able to develop a clear, comprehensible

> statement of who we are and what we do?

>

> Keep in mind that for the vast majority

> of the public at large, the response to

> Chinese medicine remains, " Huh? "

>

> And when you talk about regulations,

> you're talking about the public at large.

>

> Some serious strategic thinking needs

> to be done, and it needs to include

> a figure out to the Tower of Babel

> configuration in which the field currently

> finds itself.

>

> It's really a poor plan for a general

> to march into war with troops who don't

> all speak the same language and can't

> communicate easily among themselves.

>

> And the ultimate battle remains in the clinic

> where results delivered and documented

> in growing numbers will prove to be

> the best strategy and the best tactic,

> when all is said and done.

>

> If you or anyone on the list is interested

> in getting involved, please let me know.

> I'll be drawing up a list of participants

> to recommend to my colleagues in Beijing.

>

> Thanks for waving the flag.

>

> In fact the battle has been raging for years

> now. It's just breaking out into clearer

> view at present.

>

> Ken

[Guest guest]

Fernando,

 

I get your drift, amigo.

 

And as much as I'd like to turn

this into an argument about it,

that's not my drift.

 

No, I'm not arguing for the PD.

 

It's just a dictionary.

 

I'm just pointing out that words

either make sense or they don't.

 

And when it comes to public policy

there is a direct ratio between such

sense and the sustainability of

regulations.

 

Language is just a tool.

 

It's there for people who can use

it to use.

 

Since you bring into question my

motives in making this point, I

wonder what yours are for resisting

it.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Brotherman!

 

I'm not really resisting anything! Taichi practice would've been a

waste.

 

I'm all for us understanding the words we use. A common language. It

makes sense that when someone makes a statement that the guy across

the street knows what we're talking about. I'm with you on this!

100%!!.

 

You may not recall this. But I was the first one to join the

translatechinesemed newsgroup that Elaine started. In fact, she

started that group the same day I suggested it on the CHA list. I

checked the date. I was elated. What happened? Folks started talking

about information theory; intellectual bs, translations from this

classic and so on. I asked very basic questions such as order of the

strokes. I posted a mickey mouse translation of my own. Guess what!

No one gave a hoot! All were caught up on some ego trip to see who

had the coolest answer.

 

Take a look at the Paradigm forum on learning Chinese. The same

thing. The forums assume one has a deeper knowledge just to get

started. Neophyte questions are just ignored. I own Flaws's book on

teaching yourself Chinese. I also have Paul Unchulds' books on the

same subject and recently ordered the damaged version of Wiseman's PD

that Felt is selling on his website so that I can do it solo. And I

will do it.

 

 

Years ago, I heard Grover Washington Jr. blowing on " Just The Two of

Us " Remember that! with Bill Whithers? Man! it caught my attention. I

went to Carl Fischer music store in Chicago and dropped $2000.00 on a

Selmer sax. Taught myself to play sax. The time was right. Had the

money and time. I'll do the same with the language. I promise!

 

BTW, I want you to know that I have nothing but respect for you. I

think of you as an elder and have learned a great deal from you. I

just hope you can do push-hands, freestyle, that is. )

 

Fernando

 

 

 

Chinese Medicine , " kenrose2008 "

<kenrose2008> wrote:

> Fernando,

>

> I get your drift, amigo.

>

> And as much as I'd like to turn

> this into an argument about it,

> that's not my drift.

>

> No, I'm not arguing for the PD.

>

> It's just a dictionary.

>

> I'm just pointing out that words

> either make sense or they don't.

>

> And when it comes to public policy

> there is a direct ratio between such

> sense and the sustainability of

> regulations.

>

> Language is just a tool.

>

> It's there for people who can use

> it to use.

>

> Since you bring into question my

> motives in making this point, I

> wonder what yours are for resisting

> it.

>

> Ken

[Guest guest]

My messages are included in the body of this post.

Chris

 

In a message dated 1/11/2004 9:00:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, susegmen writes:

 

Ken, Fernando and All,

 

The battle has indeed been raging for years. In the early 1990s Sun Ten spent some big money on lobbyists and created the current (and better) climate for CM in CA via legislation. Back then we went directly to the FDA for face to face negotiations. They shrugged and said they only carry out legislative mandates. Thus, the legislative actions in CA back then were carried out once we realized the FDA is not the agency one reasons with. The same is true now. So far only state initiatives have been carried out. No one has yet used lobbying power on the federal level.

 

>>>>>Chris replies: I don't believe that is completely true. The FDA has been taken on in court and they have lost badly, several times. The trouble isn't winning in court, it's getting them to adhere to the courts demands.

After another illegal raid of a DR's office, they were slammed and lost a lot of power. That is about the time when we got the supplement act through. Legislation works wonders.

Since then, they have lost several court cases over labeling laws.

The organization that has been most effective that I know of is Life Extension Foundation.

 

 

 

The only way to affect the actions of the FDA is with Congressional legislation. That means communicating with the likes of Nancy Pelosi in the House and Ted Kennedy in the Senate.

 

>>>>>>>Chris responds: Are these the people who got the supplement act through? What are your reasons for choosing those two?

 

 

Who ever creates the political momentum in Congress is the one who will get things done. On a local level people need to write letters to their congressional representative and to their senators. Nationally there needs to be unity with regard to AAOM and industry. Actually that exists in the Chinese medicine subcommittee of AHPA under Michael McGuffin in Washington. Anyone on this list can write to Michael McGuffin by going to www.ahpa.org and posting your comments. Feel free to tell Michael I sent you. Of course, you can also go to your AAOM representative and communicate there. You can go further and become a legislative representative from AAOM or from your state acupuncture society. I was a member of the American Medical Student Association under the AMA and functioned as the legislative rep for my medical school. It was a highly enlightening experience. Bottom line is that the FDA is just the cop. It's the laws that have to be mandated on behalf of CM.

 

>>>>Chris responds: Although I think I understand why you wrote they are just the cops, I will say there are good cops and bad cops. The FDA are bad cops that bend the meaning of the law to suit their internal agenda. They want to regulate out as many nutrients and herbs as possible. They ultimately would rather only DR.s prescribe anything and that thing would be drugs.

 

 

 

 

 

So yes the fight has been raging for many years and the climb up the hill to "visibility" is slowly coming about. We are where we are, and everyone must step up to the plate with their own bit of light. It's a marathon. Feel the exhilaration and power on. If you're not sure what next step you personally can take, then email Michael McGuffin and ask him. He'll be glad to hear from you.

 

In gratitude,

Emmanuel Segmen

>>>>>Chris responds: Sorry if I sound to radical in my view of the FDA. I have been following these <Blanks> for years and believe me, they are in the game to promote the drug companies and take out anything they can that stands in the way of the drug companies profits.

Millions of people die because of this. It is a crime what they do. In any other industry, these people would be brought up on charges and thrown in jail.

[Guest guest]

Fernando,

 

Sorry to have disappointed you. I guess

the bottom line is that we just haven't

really figured out how to get the best

out of the online environment. Not that

the answers aren't all out there. I suspect

they are. Just that the press of business

and life's vagaries constantly push in their

own directions, and before you know it, it's

a New Year.

 

Your sense of respect is entirely mutual,

you can be assured.

 

And, in fact, I already knew that you

more or less share my views on the importance

of language in understanding Chinese medical

concepts. I'm quite used to being accused

and attacked for persistently raising this

point. It is, after all, tantamount to

telling people that they don't know what

they're talking about. And that's never

a happy message to receive.

 

If you've got unanswered questions concerning

Chinese characters you're trying to learn,

please do persist in getting me to answer

them, if I can. I get it that you felt

snubbed somehow and ignored. I assure you

that wasn't my intention.

 

I don't recall exactly when those other

groups did what that you mention, but somewhere

between working in the newsroom at CCTV,

the war in Iraq, the death of my father,

SARS, and few other little explosions,

the year of the Goat turned out to be a

rugged one for me. So if I zigged when

you were anticipating a zag, please forgive

me.

 

We can take it up here or we can reconvene

at the Paradigm language learning board.

 

Don't fret too much about the infrequency

and chaos of it all, that's just the way

these things go. We're all always trying

to do way more than we can.

 

If anyone wants my help in learning Chinese

medical language and related issues, I

am at your service.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Thanks for waving the flag.In fact the battle has been raging for yearsnow. It's just breaking out into clearerview at present.Ken

 

Ken, Fernando and All,

 

The battle has indeed been raging for years. In the early 1990s Sun Ten spent some big money on lobbyists and created the current (and better) climate for CM in CA via legislation. Back then we went directly to the FDA for face to face negotiations. They shrugged and said they only carry out legislative mandates. Thus, the legislative actions in CA back then were carried out once we realized the FDA is not the agency one reasons with. The same is true now. So far only state initiatives have been carried out. No one has yet used lobbying power on the federal level. The only way to affect the actions of the FDA is with Congressional legislation. That means communicating with the likes of Nancy Pelosi in the House and Ted Kennedy in the Senate. Who ever creates the political momentum in Congress is the one who will get things done. On a local level people need to write letters to their congressional representative and to their senators. Nationally there needs to be unity with regard to AAOM and industry. Actually that exists in the Chinese medicine subcommittee of AHPA under Michael McGuffin in Washington. Anyone on this list can write to Michael McGuffin by going to www.ahpa.org and posting your comments. Feel free to tell Michael I sent you. Of course, you can also go to your AAOM representative and communicate there. You can go further and become a legislative representative from AAOM or from your state acupuncture society. I was a member of the American Medical Student Association under the AMA and functioned as the legislative rep for my medical school. It was a highly enlightening experience. Bottom line is that the FDA is just the cop. It's the laws that have to be mandated on behalf of CM.

 

So yes the fight has been raging for many years and the climb up the hill to "visibility" is slowly coming about. We are where we are, and everyone must step up to the plate with their own bit of light. It's a marathon. Feel the exhilaration and power on. If you're not sure what next step you personally can take, then email Michael McGuffin and ask him. He'll be glad to hear from you.

 

In gratitude,

Emmanuel Segmen

 

[Guest guest]

Chris, Fernando, Emmanuel, Karen, and Everybody,

 

As the drumbeats quicken and grow louder,

the urgency of effective communication

increases in tandem. Unfortunately, this

is just when communication naturally begins

to break down. People get uptight. The

perception of conflicts in self-interest

tends to galvanize in the biochemistry of

fear and sheer excitement.

 

Hey, we're on TV now. Better sit up and

pay some attention.

 

This is one of those " 15 minutes of fame "

moments that Andy Warhol told us we'd

each get...in the future. Well, welcome

to your future.

 

I grew up in the bright-lights-and-movie-

stars environment of Los Angeles and went

to school in what Walt Disney dreamed of

as a factory for artists who would turn

out endless iterations of Mickey and Donald,

enough to keep his heirs in ratskin hats

and duck down comforters for generations.

 

Yes, Mickey Mouse was a rat when he was

born; but those moguls of empire realized

that he had to transform in order to make

himself fit for public consumption.

 

The game that the monsters who rule the

world play best is the language game.

 

Don't take my word for it. Just pick up

anything that Noam Chomsky has written

for the past 40 years. Or log onto

www.disinfo.com

 

Fernando takes notice when I turn

everything into language. Well, amigitos,

everything is language. And if you don't

know the words and you don't know the

tune, you won't be singing in the choir.

 

What's happening to us is what happens

to everyone. We are being assimilated.

We have been eaten by the environment

in which all we wanted was to get ourselves

well established. Well, this is what well

established looks and feels like.

 

Someone else picks you up and defines

who and what you are. You are told

what you can and cannot do. You are

told what you can and cannot know,

say, think, feel, and so on. You are

told how much you can charge. Your

survival is mandated.

 

And then you are given a certificate

and a slap on the back and told in

no uncertain terms to get out there

and be productive.

 

All of this complicated interaction

is conducted via language exchanges,

and while the profession remains a cohort

of individuals who have steadfastly avoided

coming into possession of the meanings of

the terms that they use day in and day

out in their clinics, in their courserooms,

and in their detailed communications with

researchers, investigators, policy makers

and regulators, we will prove easy prey

for the predators that stalk the boundaries

of society and pick off everything that

moves...in or out...it doesn't matter

to a worthy businessperson.

 

An asset is an asset. A dollar, just a dollar.

 

All these vast corporate and government

machines exist only for one reason: to

make people rich.

 

So now we're playing this big game,

but the problem is that those who

control the game have cast us in a role

that we're probably not all that happy

to have landed: lunch.

 

If you want to go down a little less

easy, try stiffening up your grip on

the meanings of the words you use.

 

Sorry to have launched into this political

screed. Someone must have flipped my

on switch as they strode by on their

way to battle.

 

That battle, by the way, solely and

only takes place on one square inch

of real estate: your mind.

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

What's your point, in English?

JG

--- kenrose2008 <kenrose2008 wrote:

> Chris, Fernando, Emmanuel, Karen, and Everybody,

>

> As the drumbeats quicken and grow louder,

> the urgency of effective communication

> increases in tandem. Unfortunately, this

> is just when communication naturally begins

> to break down. People get uptight. The

> perception of conflicts in self-interest

> tends to galvanize in the biochemistry of

> fear and sheer excitement.

>

> Hey, we're on TV now. Better sit up and

> pay some attention.

>

> This is one of those " 15 minutes of fame "

> moments that Andy Warhol told us we'd

> each get...in the future. Well, welcome

> to your future.

>

> I grew up in the bright-lights-and-movie-

> stars environment of Los Angeles and went

> to school in what Walt Disney dreamed of

> as a factory for artists who would turn

> out endless iterations of Mickey and Donald,

> enough to keep his heirs in ratskin hats

> and duck down comforters for generations.

>

> Yes, Mickey Mouse was a rat when he was

> born; but those moguls of empire realized

> that he had to transform in order to make

> himself fit for public consumption.

>

> The game that the monsters who rule the

> world play best is the language game.

>

> Don't take my word for it. Just pick up

> anything that Noam Chomsky has written

> for the past 40 years. Or log onto

> www.disinfo.com

>

> Fernando takes notice when I turn

> everything into language. Well, amigitos,

> everything is language. And if you don't

> know the words and you don't know the

> tune, you won't be singing in the choir.

>

> What's happening to us is what happens

> to everyone. We are being assimilated.

> We have been eaten by the environment

> in which all we wanted was to get ourselves

> well established. Well, this is what well

> established looks and feels like.

>

> Someone else picks you up and defines

> who and what you are. You are told

> what you can and cannot do. You are

> told what you can and cannot know,

> say, think, feel, and so on. You are

> told how much you can charge. Your

> survival is mandated.

>

> And then you are given a certificate

> and a slap on the back and told in

> no uncertain terms to get out there

> and be productive.

>

> All of this complicated interaction

> is conducted via language exchanges,

> and while the profession remains a cohort

> of individuals who have steadfastly avoided

> coming into possession of the meanings of

> the terms that they use day in and day

> out in their clinics, in their courserooms,

> and in their detailed communications with

> researchers, investigators, policy makers

> and regulators, we will prove easy prey

> for the predators that stalk the boundaries

> of society and pick off everything that

> moves...in or out...it doesn't matter

> to a worthy businessperson.

>

> An asset is an asset. A dollar, just a dollar.

>

> All these vast corporate and government

> machines exist only for one reason: to

> make people rich.

>

> So now we're playing this big game,

> but the problem is that those who

> control the game have cast us in a role

> that we're probably not all that happy

> to have landed: lunch.

>

> If you want to go down a little less

> easy, try stiffening up your grip on

> the meanings of the words you use.

>

> Sorry to have launched into this political

> screed. Someone must have flipped my

> on switch as they strode by on their

> way to battle.

>

> That battle, by the way, solely and

> only takes place on one square inch

> of real estate: your mind.

>

> Ken

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

Hotjobs: Enter the " Signing Bonus " Sweepstakes

http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus

[Guest guest]

>>>>>Chris responds: Sorry if I sound to radical in my view of the FDA. I have been following these <Blanks> for years and believe me, they are in the game to promote the drug companies and take out anything they can that stands in the way of the drug companies profits.

 

Hi Chris,

 

Me, too. I've been following them for many years, too. Before I went to medical school in 1985, I did myself a little favor. I read the history of medicine in America, how it was taught, how it was implemented and how it was regulated. The FDA, of course, is a creation of the AMA. Historically, the AMA's FDA project in the early 20th Century represents a new evolution in American politics. At any rate, the FDA was created to represent the industry that created it ... namely drug companies. People that work in the herbal industry or CM represent "outsiders" to the FDA, and therefore we are the ones that the FDA has the mandate to harass. A lot of my graduate school classmates who could not get hired as scientists in industry went to work for the FDA, USDA and other such entities. I import Chinese herbs into the U.S., so I get to see and speak to my old pals on a regular basis. As a result I tend not to get too paranoid about who the FDA is. They're my old pals, and we tend to be cordial with each other. They are clearly out to prevent my industry from competing effectively with Western medicine. That's their job. So our conversations can be amusing.

 

This all changes when you change the legislative mandate of the FDA. That is, even though the FDA was created by the AMA, if the herbal industry legislates themselves into the picture, then the FDA represents us, too. It "could" work that way. As we grow and develop, we have to legislate ourselves into the picture.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

[Guest guest]

Emmanuel,

 

> This all changes when you change the legislative mandate of the

FDA. That is, even though the FDA was created by the AMA, if the

herbal industry legislates themselves into the picture, then the FDA

represents us, too. It " could " work that way. As we grow and

develop, we have to legislate ourselves into the picture.

 

Are you available for a draft campaign

to run against Bush, Dean, et al in

the fall?

 

President Segmen...

 

hmmm...nice ring to it.

 

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

Ken,

 

I'd consider running on the Dang Gui Party ticket. You could say it's in my blood.

;-)

 

Now that Pat Paulsen isn't running any more, someone has to bring symbolism to the national elections.

 

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

Emmanuel,> This all changes when you change the legislative mandate of the FDA. That is, even though the FDA was created by the AMA, if the herbal industry legislates themselves into the picture, then the FDA represents us, too. It "could" work that way. As we grow and develop, we have to legislate ourselves into the picture. Are you available for a draft campaignto run against Bush, Dean, et al inthe fall?President Segmen...hmmm...nice ring to it.Ken

[Guest guest]

JG,

 

 

> What's your point, in English?

> JG

Sorry to have eluded you.

 

As luck would have it, I came across

the following from Ames and Hall in

their Dao De Jing: Making This Life

Signficant.

 

" In the classical Chinese worldview, as in many others, language has

power. 'To name (ming [they give the character here, the word usually

translated into English as name])' is 'to command (ming [the

character here is one that is frequently rendered into English as

destiny]);' If you have something's name, you not only know it, but

can contain it and hold it subject to your will. To invoke a name

brings power and mastery with it. The custom of respecting a taboo on

the names of one's elders and superiors is a reflection of this

belief. To have the vocabulary of a particular area of experience,

then, is to assume charge over it and to control it. "

 

That's my point, in English.

 

It is precisely my point with respect

to the relationship between language

competence and political activism.

Folks have got to be able to understand

one another in order to engage in mutual

actions on a front that is all about

the articulation of regulations.

 

The people who do not control the language

have a general term that describes them:

the governed.

 

With respect to the importance of language

and the education and training in Chinese

medicine more generally, my point is that

if you are not aware of what Ames and Hall

are talking about concerning the Classical

Chinese worldview and the importance of language

as one central organizing principle of it,

then you have missed an enormous portion

of the meaning of Chinese medical terms

and therefore the theories they animate.

 

For instance, the verification of Chinese

texts often includes a check for certain

taboo characters. Ames and Hall refer to

this respect for taboos on words. During

the reign of an emperor, for example, the

characters that made up that emperor's name

were forbidden from use. I suppose that

the principle in play would fall more or

less along the lines that Ames and Hall describe.

Lest anyone gain control over the Son of Heaven,

his name became unspeakable...and unwriteable.

 

So if you find it in a manuscript published

during his reign, you tend to think of the

document in hand as a forgery, something of

an earlier or later age, almost certainly.

 

Of course, not absolutely so. And this is

but one of the many complicating factors

that come to bear on the investigation,

reading, understanding and application of

ancient texts. It is particularly important

in the realm of medical texts, for there

seems to have been widespread fakery of

texts, medicines, and all other imaginable

(and some rather unimaginable) aspects of

life related to medicine and health care.

 

This is one of the ways in which the

Western acculturation of Chinese medicine

has remained most faithful to the stubject's

origins.

 

Have I made matters clearer, or more

obscure?

 

Ken

[Guest guest]

The AMA decided back in 1970-71 that they had to control AP/OM. Within one year the FDA had locked down acupuncture needles in ALL 50 states as a Class III Investigational MEDICAL DEVICE!!! And it took until 1996 for the standards to rise to Class II Medical Device.

 

This time frame coincided with their immoral & illegal battle against the Chiropractic profession.

 

The problem with this so-called integration is exactly what it sounds like. To co-opt, to take-over, to control. To integrate. For MDs to either be the primary practitioners of AP/OM or in the least to have APs work UNDER their control.

 

AP/OM is and needs to be a parallel 'stand-alone' medical system. Integrated in the sense of working together.

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 1/14/2004 11:11:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, inamorata1 writes:

Congress can't fight us forever and the AMA realized three years ago that it had to integrate us. I learned that on an interview for an editor position for JAMA. Their goal for this integration at that time was 5 years.Namaste,Debra

[Guest guest]

Yes, I question whether we really want our own branch of the FDA,

which I call the " Federal Distribution Agency. " However, if we can

legislate our own branch with our own heads, not M. D.'s, we have a

chance. I am currently working with legislative assistants in

Illinois and wherever I can to broach the subject.

 

What I've heard most is that they want case studies. Statistically,

TCM proves itself over and over again. For every 4 women who die of

breast cancer in China, we lose 26 or more in the U. S. and 29 in the

UK. I ask why they want these when this medicine is far older than

the " new kid " they adopted here.

 

One of the Masters I study with redesigned many formulas for the

Western body. Isn't that what TCM was about in the first place,

customization?

 

Besides, autoimmune disorders have increased 200% in the last two

years and Western medicine cannot effectively manage many. Women ar

ethe most affected and often have multiples of four. Threrefre,

families are also effected. With just this one instance, the

government looks at a huge increase in disability and health

spending, which it cannot absorb.

 

 

 

 

Congress can't fight us forever and the AMA realized three years ago

that it had to integrate us. I learned that on an interview for an

editor position for JAMA. Their goal for this integration at that

time was 5 years.

 

I can tell you from personal experience, as well, it works. I manage

quite well and I was schooled Western medicine first, but I have

greater belief in the healing we achieve.

 

Together, we can pull this mainstream. The public already is one

patient at a time.

 

Namaste,

Debra

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 1/14/2004 11:59:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, acudoc11 writes:

 

The problem with this so-called integration is exactly what it sounds like. To co-opt, to take-over, to control. To integrate. For MDs to either be the primary practitioners of AP/OM or in the least to have APs work UNDER their control.

 

AP/OM is and needs to be a parallel 'stand-alone' medical system. Integrated in the sense of working together.

 

Richard

 

Agreed!!!