TCM -

[Guest guest]

[earlier post: Can anyone recommend an acupuncturist who practices Dr Yoshio

Manaka's Ion

Pumping Technique?

I have to recommend someone with hyperthyroid and a LV Stagnation.]

 

Sorry I forgot the location. The practitioner should be in the Phoenix area

in AZ.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

A man I treat has been diagnosded with high levels of Thyroid hormone and a

low level

of TSH in the pituitary. Also the Liver tests came somewhat high for

enzymes.

 

It seems the diagnosis from a Naturopath is LV Stagnation, food allergies to

gluten,

a beleaguered immune system and a hyperactive thyroid.

 

Rest of parameters normal.

 

Genetic disposition.

 

I want to try out the ion pumping technique of Manaka to clear the LV

Stagnation,

which to my mind is a main problem.

 

Can you help?

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

-

" John Garbarini " <johnlg_2000

<Chinese Medicine >

Friday, January 09, 2004 12:08 PM

Re: TCM -

 

 

Yes, I know something about it; what would you like to

know?

John Garbarini (Paramus, NJ area)

--- " dr. k " <aryaone wrote:

> Can anyone recommend an acupuncturist who practices

> Dr Yoshio Manaka's Ion

> Pumping Technique?

>

> I have to recommend someone with hyperthyroid and a

> LV Stagnation.

>

> Any feedback will be welcome.

>

> Dr. Holmes Keikobad

> MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

> www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for

> acupuncturists and health

> professionals

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

Hotjobs: Enter the " Signing Bonus " Sweepstakes

http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus

 

Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious,

spam messages,flame another member or swear.

 

To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none,

visit the groups' homepage:

Chinese Medicine/ click 'edit my

membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

 

To send an email to

<Chinese Medicine- > from the email

account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still

recieve messages for a few days.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Yes, I know something about it; what would you like to

know?

John Garbarini (Paramus, NJ area)

--- " dr. k " <aryaone wrote:

> Can anyone recommend an acupuncturist who practices

> Dr Yoshio Manaka's Ion

> Pumping Technique?

>

> I have to recommend someone with hyperthyroid and a

> LV Stagnation.

>

> Any feedback will be welcome.

>

> Dr. Holmes Keikobad

> MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

> www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for

> acupuncturists and health

> professionals

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

Hotjobs: Enter the " Signing Bonus " Sweepstakes

http://hotjobs.sweepstakes./signingbonus

[Guest guest]

The man, 65 years and in good health, has been diagnosed by a Naturopath

with:

1. High levels of thyroid hormone.

2. Low level of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone from pituitary as a protective

measure.

3. Somewhat high LV enzymes.

4. A possible stress on immune system.

 

I feel the root cause of all is a Stagnated LV and want to use Manaka's Ion

Pumping cords

to take care of that.

 

I have read his book Chasing the Dragon's Tail and seen mention of it.

 

Question. Is it true that this system will quickly bring about a

destagnation in LV and

make it work at normal levels?

 

And can this be done fairly easily if you showed my how. I am ready to have

the cords

purchased.

 

I request your feedback at earliest.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

-

" John Garbarini " <johnlg_2000

<Chinese Medicine >

Friday, January 09, 2004 12:08 PM

Re: TCM -

 

 

Yes, I know something about it; what would you like to

know?

[Guest guest]

One of the back issues of the European Journal of Chinese medicine has an

article on 'Gu' medicine which you might find relevant. Best wishes, kh.

[Guest guest]

Outside of the hospitals, one can find a much richer and in-depth

practice of acupuncture among the private doctors in China. One just

has to look harder. Compared to the Japanese, the present-day practice

of acupuncture in Chinese hospitals has degenerated from previous eras.

 

Acupuncture actually has a very broad range of application, in that it

regulates the flow of qi in the body. Its original use in the Nei Jing

and Nan Jing is more about maintaining and restoring equilibrium to yin

and yang, i.e. optimum health, than specific diseases.

 

I've taught and practiced herbal medicine for the past 23 years, but

I've never bought the superiority of herbal medicine over

acupuncture/moxabustion. They are different and complimentary, and

both essential. Reducing acupuncture and moxabustion to a form of

physical therapy endangers the survival of this superior medical art.

 

 

On Jun 9, 2004, at 1:25 AM, wrote:

 

> Acupuncture as it is practiced in the west is VERY different from that

> practiced in the hospital setting of modern china. "

>

> I widely agree with your vision ( " your " it is not true: " chinese " is

> better). TCM is firstly herbal medicine; acupuncture has less

> pathologies

> where it can be used, but, of course it works. I am very satisfied

> about

> your mail.

> Thank you,

 

Chair, Department of Herbal Medicine

Pacific College of Oriental Medicine

San Diego, Ca. 92122

[Guest guest]

Electrophysiological assessment of acupuncture points. Am J Phys Med Rehabil.

2006 May;85(5):443-8. Kao M-J, Hsieh Y-L, Kuo F-J, Hong C-Z:

Electrophysiological assessment of acupuncture points. Am J Phys Med Rehabil

2006;85:443-448. OBJECTIVE:: This study was designed to assess the occurrence of

end plate noise (EPN) in an acupuncture point (AcP). DESIGN:: Ten male and 10

female normal volunteers were included in this study. For each subject, mapping

of the distribution of EPN loci in an AcP region of Stomach-36 in one leg

selected randomly, and also in a nearby non-AcP region in the other leg as a

control, was performed with electromyographic recordings. RESULTS:: There were

significantly more EPN loci in the AcP region of Stomach-36 than in the non-AcP

region near this AcP. Whenever the searching needle approached an EPN locus, the

subjects always felt pain, soreness, or an unpleasant sensation. This feeling

was rarely reported when no EPN was recorded from any site in either an AcP

region or a non-AcP region. After electromyographic study, every AcP was

confirmed as a myofascial trigger point. CONCLUSIONS:: Similar to the

distribution of EPN loci in an MTrP region, significantly more EPN loci can be

identified in an AcP region of Stomach-36 than in a nearby non-AcP site. This

study provides additional support to the hypothesis that some AcPs are also

myofascial trigger points.

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

-

Artemis Papert

Chinese Medicine

Saturday, April 29, 2006 2:47 AM

Re: tinnitus

 

 

Hi Beth,

 

Regarding sleep of your patient, I assume you have checked he does not drink

coffee or tea after -at least- late afternoon? I remember a client that came

once for sleeping problems and me saying " I'm assuming that you odn;t drink any

coffee in the afternoon or evenig? " ... well, no! the client was drinking coffee

in the evening. SInce then, I've learned to phrase the question more openly!

Have you tried moxa for his shoulder pain?

Does your client hav eany emoitonal insights about his problem or himself? In

such cases as you describe, I am thinking " what can be the ADvantage of tinitus?

of not relaxing? or shoulder pain? " .

 

I am wondering if Shiatsu might work better for your patient? Because of the

hands on " therapeutical touch " ?

 

Let us know how you get on with him.

 

Artemis

 

 

[Guest guest]

Finding your legislator.....

 

Type into your computer

 

www.ca.gov

click government

click California Legislature

click California State Assembly

click Find my district

or

click Member Directory

 

SUPPORT AB-3014

 

Contact your Assembly district representative in Sacramento

Call other Assembly members too....

Call as many members as you can between now and Wednesday/Thursday

 

Tell others how easy it is to help make a difference.

 

Let your voice be heard in Sacramento.

 

 

 

 

Oakland, CA 94609

 

 

-

Suzanne Turner

Chinese Medicine

Saturday, May 27, 2006 11:30 AM

Herbal Question

 

 

Hi,

 

sorry to change the subject, but I was wondering - I am treating a lot

of sports injuries at the moment and acupuncture and tuina are great.

To be honest I haven't been using the herbs in the way that TCM

traumatology books would suggest - but rather to treat the chronic

deficiency most serious sporty people have, while using acu, tuina and

external herbs locally for the actual injury.

 

Anyway, sorry, what I am really concerned about is what would happen

if Paula Radcliffe came through the door - would I be able to give her

herbs? I don't really know whether any herbs have banned substances in

them, or if they did whether the amounts would be significant.

 

If anyone knows, I'd much appreciate the help as I'm treating a couple

of athletes at the moment, but they're just getting Zheng gu shui and

various other external things...

 

Not too much info on sports acu/ tcm out there at the moment...

 

Thanks,

 

Suzanne

 

 

 

 

 

 

Subscribe to the new FREE online journal for TCM at Times

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com

 

Download the all new TCM Forum Toolbar, click,

http://toolbar.thebizplace.com/LandingPage.aspx/CT145145

 

and adjust

accordingly.

 

 

Please consider the environment and only print this message if absolutely

necessary.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

And even if there is heat involved....moxa when used properly can draw out

the heat.

 

Richard

 

 

In a message dated 6/12/2008 11:15:55 A.M. Central Standard Time,

subincor writes:

 

 

 

 

Hi Andrea, herpes is not always characterised by heat.

 

Hugo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best

2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Andrea, herpes is not always characterised by heat.

 

Hugo

 

 

 

Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Thursday, 12 June, 2008 6:40:36 AM

TCM -

 

 

Hi,

 

Could somebody please tell me why moxa is being used to treat herpes zoster

infections ( Shingles) ?

Is moxa not contra indicated when there is heat? Do you know any artikels

were this is explained?

I need it for my thesis. I google'd it and found nothing. The artikels about

moxa i found do not explain HOW it works.

 

Thanx.

 

Tjana.

 

Dokter Andreakos Venetia

Schorrelaan 4 bus2

2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

tel:03/828.83. 06

 

 

 

 

________

Sent from Mail.

A Smarter Email http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

 

 

[Guest guest]

Andreoakos,

Moxa can be used for cold or heat conditions, it can supplement or drain.

There are many methods from moxa pole to direct moxa, each with specific dosages

and applications, intensity and duration of treatment time. Because moxa

increases circulation of blood and qi, and ai ye/mugwort has healing properties

for the skin, it can be very useful if applied to herpes sores indirectly.

A good book with more detail is Moxabustion: The Power of Mugwort Fire by

Lorraine Wilcox from Blue Poppy Press.

The more that is known about moxa, the more flexible it gets as a treatment

modality.

 

 

---- Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos wrote:

> Hi,

>

> Could somebody please tell me why moxa is being used to treat herpes zoster

> infections ( Shingles) ?

> Is moxa not contra indicated when there is heat? Do you know any artikels

> were this is explained?

> I need it for my thesis. I google'd it and found nothing. The artikels about

> moxa i found do not explain HOW it works.

>

> Thanx.

>

> Tjana.

>

> Dokter Andreakos Venetia

> Schorrelaan 4 bus2

> 2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

> tel:03/828.83.06

>

[Guest guest]

This is corret but moxa is used in all three paterns of herpes skin

leasions.

 

Tjana

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineNamens Hugo Ramiro

Verzonden: donderdag 12 juni 2008 18:14

Aan: Chinese Medicine

Onderwerp: Re: TCM -

 

 

Hi Andrea, herpes is not always characterised by heat.

 

Hugo

 

Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Thursday, 12 June, 2008 6:40:36 AM

TCM -

 

Hi,

 

Could somebody please tell me why moxa is being used to treat herpes

zoster

infections ( Shingles) ?

Is moxa not contra indicated when there is heat? Do you know any artikels

were this is explained?

I need it for my thesis. I google'd it and found nothing. The artikels

about

moxa i found do not explain HOW it works.

 

Thanx.

 

Tjana.

 

Dokter Andreakos Venetia

Schorrelaan 4 bus2

2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

tel:03/828.83. 06

 

________

Sent from Mail.

A Smarter Email http://uk.docs./nowyoucan.html

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Andrea(Tjana?), you're right. Z'ev had a good suggestion to get that moxa

book...my point being that pattern differentiation gives a lot of clues as to

how to treat.

I don't get a chance to use much moxa, I work in medical buildings whose

inhabitants become highly offended at moxa's beautifully fragrant odour. Don't

ask me why. In school I only remember covering use of moxa in heat conditions by

drawing heat away by treating the opposing cold section of the body, and by

using the 5 shu pts. Hmm. Maybe I should get that book too.

 

Thanks,

Hugo

 

 

 

Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, 12 June, 2008 12:49:48 PM

RE: Re: TCM -

 

 

This is corret but moxa is used in all three paterns of herpes skin

leasions.

 

Tjana

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine

[Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ]Namens Hugo Ramiro

Verzonden: donderdag 12 juni 2008 18:14

Aan: Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine

Onderwerp: Re: TCM -

 

Hi Andrea, herpes is not always characterised by heat.

 

Hugo

 

 

Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos@ skynet.be>

traditional_ chinese_medicine

Thursday, 12 June, 2008 6:40:36 AM

TCM -

 

Hi,

 

Could somebody please tell me why moxa is being used to treat herpes

zoster

infections ( Shingles) ?

Is moxa not contra indicated when there is heat? Do you know any artikels

were this is explained?

I need it for my thesis. I google'd it and found nothing. The artikels

about

moxa i found do not explain HOW it works.

 

Thanx.

 

Tjana.

 

Dokter Andreakos Venetia

Schorrelaan 4 bus2

2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

tel:03/828.83. 06

 

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

Sent from Mail.

A Smarter Email http://uk.docs. / nowyoucan. html

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Tjana,

 

In the typical TCM litterature moxa is contraindicated in heat conditions

allright, however in the Japanese tradition this isn't necessarily so.

Here it is more a matter of how you apply the moxa: size of the moxa cone

applied (not sticks), grade of the moxa and thus burntime and heatintensity.

 

In some Japanese traditions... and probably some Chinese as well... all

disease appears due to (over)consumption of Yang (Jing Qi / Yüan Qi) leaving

Yin (the interrior and lower part of the body and especially the Foot Yin

meridians) to become excess Yin (Cold). If you see it this way then Yin Xu

is actually a cold condition (= the Yin is in lack of Yüan Qi), the herpes

zoster being hyperactive Yang at the surface of the body driven there by

internal cold and " activated " by invasion of a pathogenic factor (damp,

heat) or affected by toxic heat in the Blood and whatever else the patient's

constitution differentiates at. The theory of interior cold / the Yin

lacking Yän Qi theoretically justifies using moxa in the treatment of this

disease as well as in any (Yang excess) disorder. ...it also works really

well in practice, but you need to know how to do it properly.

 

For more on the topic there's a description of basic moxa technique in the

Stephen Birch/Junko Ida book called Japanese Acupuncture.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Thomas

 

 

2008/6/12 Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos:

 

> Hi,

>

> Could somebody please tell me why moxa is being used to treat herpes zoster

> infections ( Shingles) ?

> Is moxa not contra indicated when there is heat? Do you know any artikels

> were this is explained?

> I need it for my thesis. I google'd it and found nothing. The artikels

> about

> moxa i found do not explain HOW it works.

>

> Thanx.

>

> Tjana.

>

> Dokter Andreakos Venetia

> Schorrelaan 4 bus2

> 2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

> tel:03/828.83.06

>

>

>

 

 

 

--

Althea Akupunktur

" Dit liv... Dit potentiale! "

 

Albanigade 23A, Kld.

5000 Odense C

Denmark

 

Tlf.: (+45) 31 25 92 26

 

www.ditlivditpotentiale.dk

 

RAB: 2006059

 

CVR: 27 32 26 46

 

Frøslev Mollerup Sparekasse

Reg.: 9133

Konto: 2050409

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dr. Richard Tan has a four point morning sickness prescription. Right

P6(neiguan), St 36(zusanli); Left SJ 5(waiguan), Sp 9(yinlingquan). To this i

generally add Ren 12, yintang, and often Du 20, and have had very good results.

 

Douglas Knapp

Doctoral Fellow, L.Ac.

Full Moon Acupuncture

1600 York Avenue

New York, NY 10028

212-734-1459

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, November 6, 2008 10:01:31 AM

TCM -

 

 

 

Hi

I have a 8 weeks pregnant patient consulting for vomiting, every day, most

of the day.

except Pc 6, CV 12, ST 36, DU 20 and DU 23 to calm the spirit any other

usefull points?

 

Thx

 

Dokter Andreakos Venetia

Schorrelaan 4 bus2

2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

tel:03/828.83. 06

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Adreakos,

Check the diet. No good if the patient is eating sweet, raw or cold foods. She

should be on a very simple,bland, cooked diet.

 

Hugo

 

 

________________________________

Hugo Ramiro

http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, 6 November, 2008 10:01:31

TCM -

 

 

 

Hi

I have a 8 weeks pregnant patient consulting for vomiting, every day, most

of the day.

except Pc 6, CV 12, ST 36, DU 20 and DU 23 to calm the spirit any other

usefull points?

 

Thx

 

Dokter Andreakos Venetia

Schorrelaan 4 bus2

2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

tel:03/828.83. 06

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Question about pregnancy.

isn't it so,   better to  avoid leg-thorax points on the thorax during

pregnancy?

A teacher of my suggest only to use back shu and ear points. (ofc also pc 6) and

suggested also that points on the leggs during the first 3 months have a tendecy

to pull the energy downwards.

 

I am curious what other people think about this.

 

rick

 

 

 

 

 

 

________________________________

Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, November 6, 2008 4:01:31 PM

TCM -

 

 

 

Hi

I have a 8 weeks pregnant patient consulting for vomiting, every day, most

of the day.

except Pc 6, CV 12, ST 36, DU 20 and DU 23 to calm the spirit any other

usefull points?

 

Thx

 

Dokter Andreakos Venetia

Schorrelaan 4 bus2

2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

tel:03/828.83. 06

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Much is said about contra-indications in pregnancy, but one has to keep in mind

that

when the mother is vomiting all day long it can't be good for the fetus.

 

Other points consideration must include pattern identification:

phlegm, phlegm heat, Stomach heat, Spleen Qi vacuity, LIver Stomach disharmony,

Liver

stomach yin dual vacuity....

 

Give consideration to ear points which can be very helpful and effective.

 

 

Chinese Medicine , Rick <rick_kamps1973

wrote:

>

> Question about pregnancy.

> isn't it so,   better to  avoid leg-thorax points on the thorax during

pregnancy?

> A teacher of my suggest only to use back shu and ear points. (ofc also pc 6)

and

suggested also that points on the leggs during the first 3 months have a tendecy

to pull

the energy downwards.

>

> I am curious what other people think about this.

>

> rick

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos

> Chinese Medicine

> Thursday, November 6, 2008 4:01:31 PM

> TCM -

>

>

>

> Hi

> I have a 8 weeks pregnant patient consulting for vomiting, every day, most

> of the day.

> except Pc 6, CV 12, ST 36, DU 20 and DU 23 to calm the spirit any other

> usefull points?

>

> Thx

>

> Dokter Andreakos Venetia

> Schorrelaan 4 bus2

> 2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

> tel:03/828.83. 06

 

[Guest guest]

a lot of practitioners have fears about tx pregnant women. get the

acupuncture in pregnancy book by debra betts. it thoroughly explains how to

tx in each trimester and a pre-post & during labor. the caution about

needling the lumbar area is that it might be too moving. the thorax points

c/i depends upon how large the fetus is because obviously you wouldn't want

to polk the fetus in the eye. debra give and explanation of how large the

fetus is during the various trimesters, and which abdom pts are ok during

the 1st/2nd trimester. ren 12 is ok during the first trimester since the

growing fetus hasn't gotten past ren 8.

 

as far as leg points, i've never heard no leg points. sp6 is c/i because

its moving and dialates the cervix. this is why its used as a pre-birth

point.

 

that being said, i remember alex tiberi (sho tx a lot of ob/gyn) that he

feels the so-called c/i points aren't really c/i because you'ld couldn't

cause an intentional mis-carriage of an unwanted pregnancy if you tried.

of course if the pregnancy is not secure (threatened mis-carriage) then you

would be cautious.

 

even dr.tan uses li 4 for pregnant women and says he has never had a

problem. though he advises charting li3.

 

that being said, the pre-cautions are warranted from a litigious point of

view. if something happened during the preg, and the mother lawyered-up,

you'ld have a difficult time defending your use of the c/i points (li4,

gb21, sp6, bi liao's) even if that wasn't what actually caused the

miscarriage.

 

you are ok to use the leg points excepting sp6. ren 12 is ok in the first

trimester. debra betts advises light needling of pregnant women, and

keeping tx focused to address sx. for morning sickness in the first

trimester, she suggests st36, p6, ren 12. the tan system has merits for

preg women since its only uses points on the limbs.

 

Chinese Medicine

 

On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Rick <rick_kamps1973 wrote:

 

> Question about pregnancy.

> isn't it so, better to avoid leg-thorax points on the thorax during

> pregnancy?

> A teacher of my suggest only to use back shu and ear points. (ofc also pc

> 6) and suggested also that points on the leggs during the first 3 months

> have a tendecy to pull the energy downwards.

>

> I am curious what other people think about this.

>

> rick

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Andreakos Venetia

<dokterandreakos<dokterandreakos%40skynet.be>

> >

> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> Thursday, November 6, 2008 4:01:31 PM

> TCM -

>

> Hi

> I have a 8 weeks pregnant patient consulting for vomiting, every day, most

> of the day.

> except Pc 6, CV 12, ST 36, DU 20 and DU 23 to calm the spirit any other

> usefull points?

>

> Thx

>

> Dokter Andreakos Venetia

> Schorrelaan 4 bus2

> 2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

> tel:03/828.83. 06

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Kathy,

 

i apprenticed/worked under alex in his private clinic when i was in the master's

program. this topic came up more than once and he said the same to me. if the

fetus is secure, it would be very difficult to cause a miscarriage even if your

intent was to do so.

 

i currently treat a few ob/gyn cases and i have found that to be true in my own

practice.

 

don snow, daom, mph, l.ac.

 

 

 

: acukath:

Sun, 9 Nov 2008 08:59:04 -0500Re: Re: TCM -

 

 

 

a lot of practitioners have fears about tx pregnant women. get theacupuncture in

pregnancy book by debra betts. it thoroughly explains how totx in each trimester

and a pre-post & during labor. the caution aboutneedling the lumbar area is that

it might be too moving. the thorax pointsc/i depends upon how large the fetus is

because obviously you wouldn't wantto polk the fetus in the eye. debra give and

explanation of how large thefetus is during the various trimesters, and which

abdom pts are ok duringthe 1st/2nd trimester. ren 12 is ok during the first

trimester since thegrowing fetus hasn't gotten past ren 8.as far as leg points,

i've never heard no leg points. sp6 is c/i becauseits moving and dialates the

cervix. this is why its used as a pre-birthpoint.that being said, i remember

alex tiberi (sho tx a lot of ob/gyn) that hefeels the so-called c/i points

aren't really c/i because you'ld couldn'tcause an intentional mis-carriage of an

unwanted pregnancy if you tried.of course if the pregnancy is not secure

(threatened mis-carriage) then youwould be cautious.even dr.tan uses li 4 for

pregnant women and says he has never had aproblem. though he advises charting

li3.that being said, the pre-cautions are warranted from a litigious point

ofview. if something happened during the preg, and the mother lawyered-up,you'ld

have a difficult time defending your use of the c/i points (li4,gb21, sp6, bi

liao's) even if that wasn't what actually caused themiscarriage.you are ok to

use the leg points excepting sp6. ren 12 is ok in the firsttrimester. debra

betts advises light needling of pregnant women, andkeeping tx focused to address

sx. for morning sickness in the firsttrimester, she suggests st36, p6, ren 12.

the tan system has merits forpreg women since its only uses points on the

limbs.Chinese MedicineOn Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Rick

<rick_kamps1973 wrote:> Question about pregnancy.> isn't it so,

better to avoid leg-thorax points on the thorax during> pregnancy?> A teacher of

my suggest only to use back shu and ear points. (ofc also pc> 6) and suggested

also that points on the leggs during the first 3 months> have a tendecy to pull

the energy downwards.>> I am curious what other people think about this.>>

rick>>>>> ________________________________> Andreakos Venetia

<dokterandreakos<dokterandreakos%40skynet.be>> >> To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>> Thursday, November 6, 2008 4:01:31 PM> TCM ->> Hi>

I have a 8 weeks pregnant patient consulting for vomiting, every day, most> of

the day.> except Pc 6, CV 12, ST 36, DU 20 and DU 23 to calm the spirit any

other> usefull points?>> Thx>> Dokter Andreakos Venetia> Schorrelaan 4 bus2>

2660 Hoboken Antwerpen> tel:03/828.83. 06>> [Non-text portions of this message

have been removed]>> >-- Board Certified in

Oriental Medicine, NCCAOMExperienced, Dedicated, EffectiveFlying Dragon

Liniment:Effective pain relief for muscles & jointsFormulated by Kath Bartlett,

Traditional Chinese HerbalistAvailable at Asheville Center for ,

or from the followingsuppliers:Kamwo Herbal Pharmacy: NY -

Chinatownhttps://www.kamwo.com/shop/product.php?productid=17442 & cat=0 & page=1Gold\

en Needle Acupuncture, Herbal & Medical Supply - Candler,

NChttp://www.goldenneedleonline.com/index.php?page=categories & category=14 & vendor\

= & product=5554 & pg=Asheville Center For 70 Woodfin Place, Suite

West Wing TwoAsheville, NC 28801

828.258.2777kbartlett[Non-t\

ext portions of this message have been removed]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

I use leg points on pregnant woman for various problems and for pre

birth treatment. Debra Betts book has a lot of advice, see

http://www.chinesemedicinetimes.com/product/193/171/the_essential_guide_to_acupu\

ncture_in_pregnancy_and_childbirth

 

Attilio

www.attiliodalberto.com

 

Chinese Medicine , " Kath Bartlett,

MS, LAc " wrote:

>

> a lot of practitioners have fears about tx pregnant women. get the

> acupuncture in pregnancy book by debra betts. it thoroughly

explains how to

> tx in each trimester and a pre-post & during labor. the caution about

> needling the lumbar area is that it might be too moving. the thorax

points

> c/i depends upon how large the fetus is because obviously you

wouldn't want

> to polk the fetus in the eye. debra give and explanation of how

large the

> fetus is during the various trimesters, and which abdom pts are ok

during

> the 1st/2nd trimester. ren 12 is ok during the first trimester

since the

> growing fetus hasn't gotten past ren 8.

>

> as far as leg points, i've never heard no leg points. sp6 is c/i

because

> its moving and dialates the cervix. this is why its used as a pre-birth

> point.

>

> that being said, i remember alex tiberi (sho tx a lot of ob/gyn) that he

> feels the so-called c/i points aren't really c/i because you'ld couldn't

> cause an intentional mis-carriage of an unwanted pregnancy if you tried.

> of course if the pregnancy is not secure (threatened mis-carriage)

then you

> would be cautious.

>

> even dr.tan uses li 4 for pregnant women and says he has never had a

> problem. though he advises charting li3.

>

> that being said, the pre-cautions are warranted from a litigious

point of

> view. if something happened during the preg, and the mother

lawyered-up,

> you'ld have a difficult time defending your use of the c/i points (li4,

> gb21, sp6, bi liao's) even if that wasn't what actually caused the

> miscarriage.

>

> you are ok to use the leg points excepting sp6. ren 12 is ok in the

first

> trimester. debra betts advises light needling of pregnant women, and

> keeping tx focused to address sx. for morning sickness in the first

> trimester, she suggests st36, p6, ren 12. the tan system has merits for

> preg women since its only uses points on the limbs.

>

> Chinese Medicine

>

> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 12:49 PM, Rick <rick_kamps1973 wrote:

>

> > Question about pregnancy.

> > isn't it so, better to avoid leg-thorax points on the thorax during

> > pregnancy?

> > A teacher of my suggest only to use back shu and ear points. (ofc

also pc

> > 6) and suggested also that points on the leggs during the first 3

months

> > have a tendecy to pull the energy downwards.

> >

> > I am curious what other people think about this.

> >

> > rick

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ________________________________

> > Andreakos Venetia

<dokterandreakos<dokterandreakos%40skynet.be>

> > >

> > To:

Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\

ogroups.com>

> > Thursday, November 6, 2008 4:01:31 PM

> > TCM -

> >

> > Hi

> > I have a 8 weeks pregnant patient consulting for vomiting, every

day, most

> > of the day.

> > except Pc 6, CV 12, ST 36, DU 20 and DU 23 to calm the spirit any

other

> > usefull points?

> >

> > Thx

> >

> > Dokter Andreakos Venetia

> > Schorrelaan 4 bus2

> > 2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

> > tel:03/828.83. 06

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

What earpoints would you use?

 

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: Chinese Medicine

Chinese MedicineNamens laloubegue

Verzonden: donderdag 6 november 2008 21:15

Aan: Chinese Medicine

Onderwerp: Re: TCM -

 

 

 

 

Much is said about contra-indications in pregnancy, but one has to keep in

mind that

when the mother is vomiting all day long it can't be good for the fetus.

 

Other points consideration must include pattern identification:

phlegm, phlegm heat, Stomach heat, Spleen Qi vacuity, LIver Stomach

disharmony, Liver

stomach yin dual vacuity....

 

Give consideration to ear points which can be very helpful and effective.

 

Chinese Medicine , Rick

<rick_kamps1973

wrote:

>

> Question about pregnancy.

> isn't it so, better to avoid leg-thorax points on the thorax during

pregnancy?

> A teacher of my suggest only to use back shu and ear points. (ofc also

pc 6) and

suggested also that points on the leggs during the first 3 months have a

tendecy to pull

the energy downwards.

>

> I am curious what other people think about this.

>

> rick

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos

> Chinese Medicine

> Thursday, November 6, 2008 4:01:31 PM

> TCM -

>

>

>

> Hi

> I have a 8 weeks pregnant patient consulting for vomiting, every day,

most

> of the day.

> except Pc 6, CV 12, ST 36, DU 20 and DU 23 to calm the spirit any other

> usefull points?

>

> Thx

>

> Dokter Andreakos Venetia

> Schorrelaan 4 bus2

> 2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

> tel:03/828.83. 06

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ear Shen Men, Sympathetic, Stomach, Liver

 

 

 

________________________________

Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, November 13, 2008 2:34:50 PM

RE: Re: TCM -

 

 

What earpoints would you use?

 

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----

Van: Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine

[Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine ]Namens laloubegue

Verzonden: donderdag 6 november 2008 21:15

Aan: Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine

Onderwerp: Re: TCM -

 

Much is said about contra-indications in pregnancy, but one has to keep in

mind that

when the mother is vomiting all day long it can't be good for the fetus.

 

Other points consideration must include pattern identification:

phlegm, phlegm heat, Stomach heat, Spleen Qi vacuity, LIver Stomach

disharmony, Liver

stomach yin dual vacuity....

 

Give consideration to ear points which can be very helpful and effective.

 

Traditional_ Chinese_Medicine , Rick

<rick_kamps1973@ ...>

wrote:

>

> Question about pregnancy.

> isn't it so, better to avoid leg-thorax points on the thorax during

pregnancy?

> A teacher of my suggest only to use back shu and ear points. (ofc also

pc 6) and

suggested also that points on the leggs during the first 3 months have a

tendecy to pull

the energy downwards.

>

> I am curious what other people think about this.

>

> rick

____________ _________ _________ __

> Andreakos Venetia <dokterandreakos@ ...>

>

> Thursday, November 6, 2008 4:01:31 PM

> TCM -

>

>

>

> Hi

> I have a 8 weeks pregnant patient consulting for vomiting, every day,

most

> of the day.

> except Pc 6, CV 12, ST 36, DU 20 and DU 23 to calm the spirit any other

> usefull points?

>

> Thx

>

> Dokter Andreakos Venetia

> Schorrelaan 4 bus2

> 2660 Hoboken Antwerpen

> tel:03/828.83. 06

 

[Guest guest]

Please keep the Subject titles related to the subject so that I don't waste my

time reading things I have no interest in. thanks

 

Be well,

Bob

Robert Linde, AP, RH

Professional Herbalists Training Program

Acupuncture & Herbal Therapies

901 Central Ave

St. Petersburg, FL 33705

www.acuherbals.com

727-551-0857

 

 

--- On Sat, 4/25/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote:

 

> mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

> TCM -

> Chinese Traditional Medicine

> Saturday, April 25, 2009, 10:36 PM

> Hugo,

> Thanks for your clarification. Many of today's health

> improvements came with cleaner water and sanitation and not

> as a result of the vaccines used. While I am unfamiliar

> with the studies you cite, I can recall my research into the

> DPT vaccine at UCSD medical library where I read several of

> the books written about these illnesses and also the side

> effects of the vaccines for a presentation on the subject.

> There was a separate room dedicated just to the vaccine

> issue.

> What was clear to me was that in many such illnesses the

> vaccines had not been introduced prior to a decline in the

> illness. It is great to spin it like vaccines are the

> greatest, which the media and medical establishment do, but

> then we are ignoring the historical facts, which often fails

> to be mentioned. There are many issues at work here and

> lest we not forget the role that money, power and political

> will (media) all play.

> You might find some of these referenced studies helpful at

> http://www.healingwell.com/library/health/thompson2.asp .

> Hope this helps us all to learn more about this. Are you

> aware of Pasteur's recanting of the germ theory on his

> deathbed? Makes for interesting contemplation then about

> our internal terrain and how this is really part of our

> immune system. Go !

> Michael W. Bowser, LAc

>

> Chinese Medicine

> subincor

> Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:40:14 +0000

> Re: Re: Vaccination - Whom can we trust?

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Hi Mike:

>

>

>

> --Mike B-

>

> Curious as to what you might consider effective for small

> pox, when it

>

> apparently was on its way out prior to any serious vaccine

> scheduling.

>

> Similarly, many other childhood illnesses were on a decline

> prior to

>

> vaccines as well. So how do we consider this data? I hear

> little

>

> discourse on the historical data and maybe we need to look

> at this

>

> stuff a bit further before we pat them on the backs for

> vaccinations.

>

> Just a thought.

>

> ---

>

>

>

> Woah, who's patting who on the back?

>

>

>

> Reinterpreting data that has already been interpreted and

> entered into the doctrine is difficult, and I can understand

> why some emotions are running high.

>

>

>

> I am not interested in wholesale rejections of anything,

> honestly. I believe in the genius of human beings and

> I've found that there's at least a grain of truth in

> everything and anything. I'm not sure there's

> anything that's entirely garbage. We'd have to go

> into some fairly involved buddhist doctrine which I am not

> sure I really grasp in order for me to be able to discuss

> this further, so:

>

>

>

> I work off two data points here, the first being a recent

> article in CMAJ where the conclusion was:

>

>

>

> " Pneumococcal vaccination does not appear to be

> effective in preventing pneumonia, even in populations for

> whom the vaccine is currently recommended. "

>

>

>

> Efficacy of pneumococcal vaccination in adults: a

> meta-analysis CMAJ 2009;180(1):48-58

>

>

>

> The other is Cuba. Being an island with the ability to

> carry out massive vaccination gives it some special

> significance...I think.

>

>

>

> One study in 1999 compared pre and post vaccination

> invasive meningococcal disease in young children. The

> results in a very short time span (pre=1984-88,

> post=1989-94) were large. Unless the analysis is totally

> wrong, I cannot see how that happened except that the

> vaccination campaign was effective. (Impact of

> Antimeningococcal B vaccination in Cuba, Mem Inst Oswaldo

> Cruz, Rio de Janeiro, Vol. 94, 1999)

>

>

>

> A second more recent observational study (2005) concluded

> that meningitis cases in Cuba were on the decline after

> massive immunisation campaigns since the late 80s and early

> 90s. There was an earlier " massive campaign " in

> 1979 that did not have any real effects. (Bacterial

> meningitis in children and adolescents: an observational

> study based on the national surveillance system, BMC,

> Infectious Diseases, 2005, 5:103)

>

>

>

> I think both sides raise good questions and issues, and I

> personally would like to avoid throwing babies out with bath

> water. Apart from plain stupid things like using mercury as

> a preservative and so on, I believe we might keep in mind

> that the vaccination debacle may be more about the

> complexity of health and disease meeting an obsessively

> linear intervention. Vaccination likely has it uses, and

> yet, like much of modern medicine, is used in a brute,

> short-sighted, and one-dimensional manner..

>

>

>

> I know, Mike, that you are questioning whether polio

> vaccination has done anything, but what accounts for a

> nearly 60% decline of polio cases in China in 2 years

> (1989-1991)? I am sure that the polio vaccine has behaved

> differently in different parts of the world, and I find it

> entirely believable that certain areas of the world were

> experiencing a decline in polio cases before vaccination

> started. After all, it is basic CM that there are many

> things that make a human being susceptible to the

> penetration of a microbe to deep levels, such as stress,

> climactic environs, adequate food, age and so on.

> Sheltering, feeding and nurturing peope is likely to

> decrease the incidence and mortality of any disease.

> Vaccination may be helpful in decreasing incidence and

> mortality in some situations where adequate food and shelter

> are not easily available, for instance.

>

>

>

> Thoughts?

>

>

>

> I'd like to finish off by saying that I am not a

> representative of the western medical-industrial complex

> counterculture. I am a junior representative of a lineage CM

> tradition.

>

>

>

> Hugo

>

>

>

> ________________________________

>

> Hugo Ramiro

>

> http://middlemedicine.wordpress.com

>

> http://www.chinesemedicaltherapies.org

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

And flouride in the water is combining with the aluminum form vaccine

administration to cause endocrine disruptors in our children. The precocious

adrogenicity in some austic children seem to point towards this vaccinated into

metallurgic hell.Also, the feminization of

 

the males.This impact on the sexuality of the masses of children that is our

future is also a concern.When they are given phosphoric acid (soda) to drink the

problems are compounded

 

and I saw clearly that all toxins are not just in the environment, many are

injected.

 

Sincerely, Patricia Jordan DVM,CVA,CTCVM & Herbology

 

 

 

 

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine

naturaldoc1

Mon, 27 Apr 2009 00:12:46 +0000

TCM -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yehuda,

Maybe not but there sure are lots of negative tendencies and acceptance of these

is part of the problem. I would like to point out that our world is facing some

interesting and accelerated changes brought about by man (climate change). We

have successfully created many things that are not of the natural world and

therefore nature does not know what to do with them either. I am not sure is so

understanding and accepting.

My faves though are the many things that impact our health and yet we tend to

treat them as unrelated. I would like to remind us that we have created some

wonderful endocrine-blocking substances (xeno-estrogens) as a result of our need

for bottled water. I am not sure how one can approach this in any way but as an

all-or-nothing type of event.

There really is not any middle ground unless we look at it from an economic or

freedom type of issue. We really need to become those with the natural wisdom of

the ancients, which I am hopeful Asian medicine can do or we will continue to

see more decline.

Michael W. Bowser, LAc

 

Chinese Medicine

 

Sun, 26 Apr 2009 14:26:41 -0700

RE: Re: Re: COMBINE acupuncture with western medicine?

 

I firmly believe, Mike, that as far as any creation, be it of G-d or man, there

are no absolutes, and that every substance has relative value. Just as with

herbs, or minerals, there are extremely toxic substances, which nonetheless do

have clinical applications, albeit in micro-doses (perhaps even homeopathic

dilutions?), so too, there can be potential benefit (without harm!) of

pharmaceuticals. The key must be though extensive studies with adequate

evaluation of different effects with different dosages, as well as the

interactive chemistry, in-vitro as well as in-vivo, of these substances together

with herbs.

 

But, that being said, the other key must be promoting balance and building up

the internal milieu with proper nutrition, exercise, air, sleep and joy. Our

goal should be to have our medicine and all medicine, for that matter, obsolete.

If our patients are in balance, then they won't need medicine will they? But if

they are out of balance, then we need to use everything at our disposal to

maximize our potential to put them in balance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

--- On Sun, 4/26/09, mike Bowser <naturaldoc1 wrote:

 

mike Bowser <naturaldoc1

 

RE: Re: Re: COMBINE acupuncture with western medicine?

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine ,

 

 

Sunday, April 26, 2009, 1:32 PM

 

Yehuda and all,

 

I am unsure as to the why we would want to encourage substances that are

extremely toxic to our health to be included. In addition, many have a very

clouded past as far as really working. I really see little good support for it.

 

Petroleum based substances work against life and TCM is supportive of life.

Sometimes there is no middle of the road, I find this is true with many man-made

substances.

 

Michael W. Bowser, LAc

 

; traditional_ chinese_medicine

 

 

 

 

Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:52:20 -0700

 

Re: Re: COMBINE acupuncture with western medicine?

 

Dear Phil,

 

I totally agree with you, but in my rush to finish posting late Friday afternoon

before it got to be too late (you see, I turn into a pumpkin every Friday at

Sunset), I left out one important point in my presentation- -that I have no

problem using or combining western Meds as adjuncts to herbs and/or acupuncture,

but only if and when their properties (temperature, flavor and channel) are

indicated in treating the patient's pattern. When they are used from that

paradigm, I think that they can be very useful, potentially. What we must never

do, though, is use any medicine or therapy to suppress symptoms. Pain relief,

for example, is not necessarily synonymous with pain suppression. Dosage also,

as with Chinese medicine can make a tremendous difference in terms of a

harmonizing treatment. Micro-doses of NSAIDS or steroids, for example, might

have wonderful benefits when integrated into herbal formulas, but not without

adequate studies and

 

research.

 

Bottom line that I am suggesting, is that every medicinal substance should be

evaluated in terms of its actions, interactions, indication and

contraindications, specifically in conjunction with other herbs and substances,

(and not just Chinese herbs, mind you!) just as Chinese medicine rarely uses

single substances as formulas. I can see some of our more traditionalists

cringing, but just as over the centuries, new substances from thousands of miles

away, have been introduced to the Chinese pharmacopoeia, why shouldn't Western

medicinals be viewed the same way?

 

 

 

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. net

 

www.traditionaljewi shmedicine. blogspot. com

 

--- On Sat, 4/25/09, < (AT) tinet (DOT) ie> wrote:

 

< (AT) tinet (DOT) ie>

 

Re: COMBINE acupuncture with western medicine?

 

 

 

Saturday, April 25, 2009, 4:34 PM

 

Hi Yehuda & All,

 

Yehuda wrote:

 

> I believe that we need to make a clear distinction between combining

 

> two modalities and integrating western biomedical substances into the

 

> Chinese medical model. ... The question really is one of the model we

 

> use for diagnosis and treatment of our patients- -do we treat symptoms

 

> and needle local points to ameliorate pain or discomfort, or do we

 

> treat based upon the patient's differential diagnosis, constitution and

 

> history. The former is pure bio-medicine, which I contend in years to

 

> come will be viewed as a dinosaur--an extinct remnant of an ignorant

 

> past ... Getting back to the original question, this is the same

 

> problem with combining Chinese medicine or acupuncture with

 

> Western medicine. If we are using any medicine to treat sympoms, we

 

> are not treating the whole person, and usually the " whole person " will

 

> not get well. ...We are the torchbearers of a wonderful medicine. Let

 

> us not lower ourselves to using our tools wrongly, for using a

 

> sophisticated electronic devise as a hammer.

 

Yehuda, I see no essential conflict in combining acupuncture and most

 

(at least the safer) western medicines, especially if the acupuncture

 

ALONE has not solved the problem.

 

One CAN select relevant acupoints to treat both Root and Branch. If

 

that does not produce rapid and good clinical results, one can ADD

 

other modalities - rubs, homeopathy, NSAIDs, steroids, antibiotics -

 

as needed.

 

Am I wrong?

 

Best regards,