Does Yin ascend - the answer...

[Guest guest]

I have to admit, it has been really stimulating to read all your

comments about this (as some have mentioned) perplexing puzzler that

students often raise. Yet, some of you kind of " palpated " the

answer, many of you seem to have grasped the nature of the so-to-

speak contradiction in the conception of Yin and Yang movements. In

my opinion, practitioners who have spent many many yaers in the

practical aspect of acupuncture/Chinese medicine, may need sometimes

a stimulating theoretical/philosophical riddle that will drive them

back to the core of the understanding of what they are doing in

their clinics... Such was the lovely riddle of Dr. Holmes about the

tears, and it seems that this riddle too raised a lively discussion.

 

------------------------

As I hinted in my previous post, the answer to this contradiction

lies in the state of Yin and Yang when you examine their relative

movements. When Yin and Yang separate, i.e. in death, Yin moves down

to stillness, to the ground. Yang Qi, on the other hand, moves

upward - to heaven. As you can see, they both go back to their

source. When there is equilibrium between Yin and Yang, in a state

of health, Yin moves upward (from earth to heaven) and Yang descends

in the body (from heaven to earth). Thus, their antagonistic

movements circulate and activate one another to permit life and

creation. We can see this phenomenon in physiology when K.Yin

ascends to nourish the heart Yin and blood, when liver Yin ascends

to nourish the eyes, when K.+Sp. Yang descend to perform the Yun-Hua

task of transformation/transportation or to separate budy fluids,

the turbid from the pure, etc. When dis-equilibrium commences (the

starting of a separation between Yin and Yang), these movements turn

over. Liver Yang rises, St. Yang rises and causes heartburn or

nausea, K. Yin pours downwars and causes edema, leg Qi, etc., or H.

Yang goes up to cause red face, tachycardia, or a splitting

headache. This change in the proper direction of Yin or Yang Qi in a

state of harmonious circulation is termed in T.C.M.: rebellious Qi.

To conclude, in a state of health (peace) Yin Qi goes upward in the

body and in a state of illness (war) Yin Qi moves down. This

separation process is the beginning of death, where Yin Qi declines

and moves back to its source - to earth.

 

With kind regards to all of you, Shmuel.

[Guest guest]

This is somewhat after the fact, and not entirely relevant. But I am,

alas, a healer-poet, and am drawn to write the following:

 

Yin sleeps, and it is neither yin nor yang.

Yang wakes, and it is neither yin nor asleep.

 

Yin wakes, and is drawn to the moving yang.

Yang sleeps, and it is drawn to the sleeping yin.

 

Yin moves, and it is always to the moving yang.

Yang sleeps, and it is always to the slumbering yin.

 

Yin moves to embrace yang, but fears losing herself.

Yang moves to embrace yin, but fears finding himself.

 

Yin began, before Time began, and will survive its demise

Yang began, when yin began, and will fade with its surmise.

 

Such is the Dance, of the Eternal Twain

Who live to die, and be born again.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Shmuel. Very stimulating and clear explanation.

 

Appreciatively,

 

Emmanuel Segmen

 

 

-

Shmuel Halevi Ph.D

Chinese Medicine

Wednesday, December 10, 2003 5:08 AM

Does Yin ascend - the answer...

I have to admit, it has been really stimulating to read all your comments about this (as some have mentioned) perplexing puzzler that students often raise. Yet, some of you kind of "palpated" the answer, many of you seem to have grasped the nature of the so-to-speak contradiction in the conception of Yin and Yang movements. In my opinion, practitioners who have spent many many yaers in the practical aspect of acupuncture/Chinese medicine, may need sometimes a stimulating theoretical/philosophical riddle that will drive them back to the core of the understanding of what they are doing in their clinics... Such was the lovely riddle of Dr. Holmes about the tears, and it seems that this riddle too raised a lively discussion. ------------------------As I hinted in my previous post, the answer to this contradiction lies in the state of Yin and Yang when you examine their relative movements. When Yin and Yang separate, i.e. in death, Yin moves down to stillness, to the ground. Yang Qi, on the other hand, moves upward - to heaven. As you can see, they both go back to their source. When there is equilibrium between Yin and Yang, in a state of health, Yin moves upward (from earth to heaven) and Yang descends in the body (from heaven to earth). Thus, their antagonistic movements circulate and activate one another to permit life and creation. We can see this phenomenon in physiology when K.Yin ascends to nourish the heart Yin and blood, when liver Yin ascends to nourish the eyes, when K.+Sp. Yang descend to perform the Yun-Hua task of transformation/transportation or to separate budy fluids, the turbid from the pure, etc. When dis-equilibrium commences (the starting of a separation between Yin and Yang), these movements turn over. Liver Yang rises, St. Yang rises and causes heartburn or nausea, K. Yin pours downwars and causes edema, leg Qi, etc., or H. Yang goes up to cause red face, tachycardia, or a splitting headache. This change in the proper direction of Yin or Yang Qi in a state of harmonious circulation is termed in T.C.M.: rebellious Qi. To conclude, in a state of health (peace) Yin Qi goes upward in the body and in a state of illness (war) Yin Qi moves down. This separation process is the beginning of death, where Yin Qi declines and moves back to its source - to earth.With kind regards to all of you, Shmuel.Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days.

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " Shmuel Halevi

Ph.D " <halevis@a...> wrote:

> I have to admit, it has been really stimulating to read all your

> comments about this (as some have mentioned) perplexing puzzler that

> students often raise. Yet, some of you kind of " palpated " the

> answer, many of you seem to have grasped the nature of the so-to-

> speak contradiction in the conception of Yin and Yang movements. In

> my opinion, practitioners who have spent many many yaers in the

> practical aspect of acupuncture/Chinese medicine, may need sometimes

> a stimulating theoretical/philosophical riddle that will drive them

> back to the core of the understanding of what they are doing in

> their clinics... Such was the lovely riddle of Dr. Holmes about the

> tears, and it seems that this riddle too raised a lively discussion.

>

 

 

i hope you don't mean that practioners don't know yinyang theory well

enough and they try hard to grasp all elementary theories, like yin

and yang, through their prastices and their patients.

 

 

 

> ------------------------

> As I hinted in my previous post, the answer to this contradiction

> lies in the state of Yin and Yang when you examine their relative

> movements. When Yin and Yang separate, i.e. in death, Yin moves down

> to stillness, to the ground. Yang Qi, on the other hand, moves

> upward - to heaven. As you can see, they both go back to their

> source. When there is equilibrium between Yin and Yang, in a state

> of health, Yin moves upward (from earth to heaven) and Yang descends

> in the body (from heaven to earth). Thus, their antagonistic

 

 

" in death " is not a good example, a dead body does not has any ying-qi

nor wei-qi, how to separate and to distinguish them into yin and yang.

 

here is another quote which was mentioned in neijing,

" The ways of yin and yang are to the left and right. "

 

upward? downward? leftward? rightward?

 

 

 

> movements circulate and activate one another to permit life and

> creation. We can see this phenomenon in physiology when K.Yin

> ascends to nourish the heart Yin and blood, when liver Yin ascends

> to nourish the eyes, when K.+Sp. Yang descend to perform the Yun-Hua

> task of transformation/transportation or to separate budy fluids,

> the turbid from the pure, etc. When dis-equilibrium commences (the

> starting of a separation between Yin and Yang), these movements turn

> over. Liver Yang rises, St. Yang rises and causes heartburn or

> nausea, K. Yin pours downwars and causes edema, leg Qi, etc., or H.

> Yang goes up to cause red face, tachycardia, or a splitting

> headache. This change in the proper direction of Yin or Yang Qi in a

> state of harmonious circulation is termed in T.C.M.: rebellious Qi.

> To conclude, in a state of health (peace) Yin Qi goes upward in the

> body and in a state of illness (war) Yin Qi moves down. This

> separation process is the beginning of death, where Yin Qi declines

> and moves back to its source - to earth.

>

 

 

i think it is better that, we should first solve the elementary

yinyang theory mentioned in previous articles before we discuss

practices, channels, organs,etc. otherwise these examples and

explanation just only confuse students much and much more.

 

 

 

> With kind regards to all of you, Shmuel.

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

 

Please: View - Encoding - Chinese Traditional (Big5)

 

Liezi ¦C¤l (cap. 1, ¡± 3) says: " ²M»´ªÌ¤W¬°¤Ñ¡A ¿B­«ªÌ¤U¬°¦a¡C " -

" The pure and light, [tending] upwards, made the Heaven; the turbid

and heavy, [tending] downwards, made the Earth " , resumed in Neijing -

Suwen (chap. 5): " ²M¶§¬°¤Ñ¡A¿B³±¬°¦a¡C " - " The pure yang becomes

Heaven, the turbid yin becomes Earth " .

So, at the origin, when emerging, the pure (yang) is ascending

(accumulates above to form Heaven), and the turbid (yin) is

descending (deposits below to form Earth).

But Suwen continues: " ¦a®ð¤W¬°¶³¡A¤Ñ®ð¤U¬°«B¡C " - " the Earth energy

ascends, becoming clouds, the Heaven energy descends, becoming rain " .

This explains us the Chinese 'anatomical position': hands up and

palms facing forward, so that yang descends (from hand to head, then

keeping going to foot), and yin ascends (from foot to chest, then

keeping going to hand). So, the hand is the place where yin passes

to yang, the head is the place of yang meeting, the foot is the

place where yang passes to yin, and the chest is the place of yin

meeting.

And Suwen (chap. 5) continues: " «B¥X¦a®ð¡A¶³¥X¤Ñ®ð¡C " - " the rain

produces the Earth, the clouds produce the Heaven " , i.e. " from yang

comes out yin, from yin comes out yang " [1], retaking the cycle.

Do not forget that " ³±¤§»P¶§¤]¡A²§¦W¦PÃþ¡A¤W¤U¬Û·|¡C " - " yin and

yang have different names, but are the same [2], meeting each other

up and down " , " ¸gµ¸¤§¬Û³e¡A¦pÀôµLºÝ¡C " - " the channels thread

together like a ring without end " (Neijing - Lingshu, chap. 4).

 

Laurentiu

 

---

[1] ¥X chu means 'to come out, to exit', but also 'to come out from,

to appear, to produce, to generate'.

[2] the expression ¦PÃþ tonglei means 'of the same kind, belonging

to the same category'.

[Guest guest]

Here is an odd case and I will appreciate help with it.

 

Man 65 in relative good health.

Had a somewhat fast pulse to begin with over a long time.

Span of inhalation was OK exhalation short.

Always felt stagnated in the ribs, had to occasionally breathe deep.

 

Tip of tongue red with some raised papillae.

Small linear fissures on ST area on tongue.

Coat missing in ST area.

Tongue overall reddish.

Under tongue veins scanty.

 

Abdomen - lower; pendulous, with a lot of fat

middle, bloated somewhat and hardish

 

Reddish dry skin on Ren 17

 

Sedentary in habit, 5 " 11 " 255 lbs.

 

BP usually normal, swinging to low, recently somewhat transient high

readings

quickly settling down.

 

C/o heaviness under R ribs, mild.

 

Mouth always acidic, teeth decayed over years.

 

Lately cannot digest wheat and gluten.

Constipated 2 days, dry stool.

 

Still h/o virile.

 

Hara at abdomen: Ren 15 depressed and sunken; Ren 17 red and nearly inflamed

in a chronic sense; Ren 12 Full; Ren 9 and 10 Empty and sunken; Ren 6.5 OK;

Ren 5 for BL sunken and Empty.

 

Always has a burtn smell in nostrils.

 

On Dec9 sat in Cold and Wind for an hour, came home, had a large bowel

movement, fell aspleep.

 

Got up well, at 5 PM felt uneasy, took to bed, nauseaousm had major attack

of Chills and Cold;

pulse went crazily rapid, BP raised to dangerous levels; declined to go to

hospital.

 

Was given first a prescription for lower BP by destagnating LV.

 

Later strategy changed to routine presc. - K 3, K 7, SP 6, HT 7, P 6, REN 6

A great deal of moxa.

 

Pulse and BP quickly settled down, man became well rested whole day,

uneventful.

Allparameters settled down.

 

Exactly at 4:30 PM next day began to feel uneasy, wasuqickly given almost

tye same prescription, setled down much more quickly.

 

Rested well during night, better in morning.

 

Was up in morning, reported feeling uneasy about 8:30 AM, again similar

prescription, this time an added one for destagnating warmers.

 

Again settled down.

 

Is this an invasion of Cold superimposed on a Fu illness [somewhat fast

pulses

to begin with?]

 

The time frame is squarely at 5 to 7 PM, which is K time, and about 8:30,

which is LI time. At all other times he is well, except for the somewhat

fast pulse

he has had for a year or so.

 

Any suggestions will be appreciated, herb wiese and needle wise, or by any

other means.

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health

professionals

[Guest guest]

As could be predicted, some of the forum members find interest in

further clarifying this topic. One of you, has sent me an Email

asking a very good question concerning this subject, a question

which poses a more intricate dilema in the Yin/Yang movements issue.

I'd be vey happy to hear your opinions in resolving his question

(rephrased):

" ...Despite the explanation of the Yin Yang movements in the body,

there is the topic of the ascent of the Clear Yang to the head. So,

if Yang generally descends (as we have explained) how come there is

such an important topic in T.C.M. of the ascent of the Clear Yang

Qi? "

Well, before answering him, I wonder what the forum members can

clarify on this very beautiful question.

 

Shmuel......... www.acumedico.com

[Guest guest]

Hi Guys n Girls

I may be throwing a spanner into the works here, but I've always

been lead to believe that Yang generally acends and Yin decends.

Yang does not generally decend. This has to do with their natural

properties and characteristics. If I'm wrong please clarify. Yin

Yang theory can be simple yet profound, it's so easy to get lost in

detail sometimes.

Love and light

Jag

 

p.s. Good luck for exams to all the students

 

Chinese Medicine , " Shmuel Halevi

Ph.D " <halevis@a...> wrote:

> " ...Despite the explanation of the Yin Yang movements in the body,

> there is the topic of the ascent of the Clear Yang to the head.

So,

> if Yang generally descends (as we have explained) how come there

is

> such an important topic in T.C.M. of the ascent of the Clear Yang

> Qi? "

[Guest guest]

did this as an excercise while reading through the message, typed what came up as I read.

 

dr. k [aryaone]Thursday, December 11, 2003 6:04 PMChinese Medicine Cc: PalRe: Does Yin ascend - the answer...

Here is an odd case and I will appreciate help with it.Man 65 in relative good health.[Fred Albrecht] hmmm, hows Ki symptoms. Lower back, knees, hearing, etc? (just asking)

Had a somewhat fast pulse to begin with over a long time.[Fred Albrecht] too much yang, or not enough yin?

Span of inhalation was OK exhalation short.[Fred Albrecht] Ki Qi def?

Always felt stagnated in the ribs, had to occasionally breathe deep.[Fred Albrecht] Lv Qi def? Tip of tongue red with some raised papillae.[Fred Albrecht] Heat Heart - possibly from Ki Yin def (thus Ki Qi def)

Small linear fissures on ST area on tongue.[Fred Albrecht] St yin def. (St draining Ki Yin? Possible cause of Ki Yin def? What's diet like? Too hot/dry foods?) Coat missing in ST area.[Fred Albrecht] St yin def.

Tongue overall reddish.[Fred Albrecht] Heat.

Under tongue veins scanty.[Fred Albrecht] ??? not familiar with this ... blood def??? Abdomen - lower; pendulous, with a lot of fat[Fred Albrecht] why's he padding his 2st chakra? St/Sp/Earth issues?

middle, bloated somewhat and hardish[Fred Albrecht] more padding/protection? (nevermind) Reddish dry skin on Ren 17[Fred Albrecht] heat in Ht (4th C). Too much activity here, possibly not enough cooling??? Ki Yin again?Sedentary in habit, 5" 11" 255 lbs.[Fred Albrecht] ST overloaded, Sp not transforming. Sp damaged by excess weight??? BP usually normal, swinging to low, recently somewhat transient highreadings quickly settling down.[Fred Albrecht] Ht unbalanced-> Fire, Water not controlling -> Ki? C/o heaviness under R ribs, mild.[Fred Albrecht] LV qi stag? mother not feeding child? (whats' c/o???) Grandmother not providing enough qi?Mouth always acidic, teeth decayed over years.[Fred Albrecht] What's diet like? too much yang foods draing St yin, draing Ki Yin? Ki governs teeth and bones...Lately cannot digest wheat and gluten.[Fred Albrecht] Sp affected (genetic clock kicking in? nevermind) Constipated 2 days, dry stool.[Fred Albrecht] LI yin def, where's the heat coming from, diet, Ki yin def, St heat, St yin def?Still h/o virile.[Fred Albrecht] (h/o???) does this refer to sexually virile? At 65? Careful of jing...Hara at abdomen: Ren 15 depressed and sunken; Ren 17 red and nearly inflamedin a chronic sense; Ren 12 Full; Ren 9 and 10 Empty and sunken; Ren 6.5 OK;Ren 5 for BL sunken and Empty.Always has a burtn smell in nostrils.[Fred Albrecht] smell relates to fire, too much heat / def cooling mechanism? [Fred Albrecht] Since no mention of diet, and 65 years old, how about Ki yin starting to become def, not enough to completely peel the tongue yet, tending towards it though since St has now also started to become yin def. Def Ki yin meaning Ht fire out of control leading to blood pressure spikes and rapid pulse for long time. Heat in Ht not helping St (being yin def), St draws more from Ki, etc (wicked cycle). Overweight, breathing difficulties, Sp not providing good Gu qi to Lu leading to overall qi quality suspect, LV needs to work harder to with less, LV qi weaker, stagnated in ribs, LV Qi def. What's his emotional state, depressive? Tried to simulate breathing pattern, feels like Ki Qi taking long to drag the Lu qi down, Lu ok on exhale ... more Ki issue than Lu then??? Conclussion: (1) Ki qi declining, more yin issue than yang, with St/Sp strained by excess weight and possible wrong diet, leading to St yin and Sp qi def. Symptoms of heat due to Ki yin def. (2) Lv qi stagnation due to def qi from Lu due to Sp not sending enough gu qi.

 

 

 

On Dec9 sat in Cold and Wind for an hour, came home, had a large bowelmovement, fell aspleep.[Fred Albrecht] from above, Lu qi def, wei qi weak, prone to pathogen invasion. Pathogen entered affecting LI at first... Cold weakens Ki ...Got up well, at 5 PM felt uneasy, took to bed, nauseaousm had major attackof Chills and Cold;pulse went crazily rapid, BP raised to dangerous levels; declined to go tohospital.[Fred Albrecht] 5 PM start of Ki period, Ki weak per above. St upset due to LV qi stagnation. Ki affected, Fire not controlled. Pathogen reached internals.Was given first a prescription for lower BP by destagnating LV.Later strategy changed to routine presc. - K 3, K 7, SP 6, HT 7, P 6, REN 6A great deal of moxa.[Fred Albrecht] K3 tonify Ki, k7 ki yang, tonify Ki, Lv, Sp, Ht 7 helps regulate Ht, P6 nausea. Ok. Moxa to get yang up, drive out cold. Where moxa applied?Pulse and BP quickly settled down, man became well rested whole day,uneventful.Allparameters settled down.Exactly at 4:30 PM next day began to feel uneasy, wasuqickly given almosttye same prescription, setled down much more quickly.[Fred Albrecht] going out of Ub, into Ki time, Kidney issue coming up again??

Rested well during night, better in morning.Was up in morning, reported feeling uneasy about 8:30 AM, again similarprescription, this time an added one for destagnating warmers.

[Fred Albrecht] In St time (7-9), St issue showing up?Again settled down.Is this an invasion of Cold superimposed on a Fu illness [somewhat fastpulsesto begin with?]

[Fred Albrecht] I'd say invasion of wind-cold, with Ki and St/Sp def underlying.The time frame is squarely at 5 to 7 PM, which is K time, and about 8:30,which is LI time. At all other times he is well, except for the somewhatfast pulsehe has had for a year or so.

[Fred Albrecht] Correction: Li 5-7am, St 7-9am. I'd say Li was affected because wind-cold attached Lu.Any suggestions will be appreciated, herb wiese and needle wise, or by anyother means.

[Fred Albrecht] I'm no acupuncturist, but from the shiatsu side suggest he start looking at his diet, and cut dowm on the sex .

 

While the wind cold is there, [if using extra-ordinary vessels] work GV with masterpoint to boost/regulate yang. Work upper Ub (11-15) thoroughly to drive wind out & help St with Pc. Yang Linking vessel to release exterior. [if normal meridians] Ub (focusing on tonify 11, 12, 13, 17, 23, 52), Ki 1, 3, 6, 7, Th 5, turn over, tonify Lu 1, 7, 9, & Sp 3, 6. Lots of stretches to get the body moving, suggest gentely warmed ginger tea with lemon.

 

[Fred Albrecht] When wind-cold gone, boost Ki, Qi, St. [if using extra-ordinary vessels] UB, 13, 18, 19, 20, 21, 23, Through going vessel and CV and master points. [without extra-ordibnary meridians] Ub as before, tonify Ki 1, 3, 6, 7, turn over. Lu 1, 7, 9, St (44), 36, Sp 3, 6. With Hara, work CV4.

[Fred Albrecht] (Need to ask about emotional state and diet.)

[Fred Albrecht] Suggest preservation of jing and foods that damage St yin.

 

fred Dr. Holmes KeikobadMB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZwww.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and healthprofessionalsMembership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days.

[Guest guest]

Chinese Medicine , " jag " wrote:

> I may be throwing a spanner into the works here, but I've always

> been lead to believe that Yang generally acends and Yin decends.

> Yang does not generally decend. This has to do with their natural

> properties and characteristics. If I'm wrong please clarify. Yin

> Yang theory can be simple yet profound, it's so easy to get lost

in detail sometimes.

 

 

 

Jag, all:

 

You need to keep in mind the Ting point through He-sea point flow in

the channels, in association with the Heaven/Man/Earth sequence. It

creates a different qi flow in the channels, separate from the

circadian or daily flow from Lung through Liver.

 

This type of flow starts at the Ting points of the foot, so the

earth or yin energy rises through the Ting, goes to the He-sea

points of the legs, then into the divergent channels and into their

respective organs---similarly from Heaven through the Ting points of

the hand, to the He-sea points of the arm, into the divergent

channels into the organs.

 

So you can say both that yin ascends and yang descends in these

situations. You're right, good test question.

 

 

Jim Ramholz

[Guest guest]

Sounds like Stomach yn-def; does he eat late at night?

Lots of carbs? Drinks a lot of coffee? The peeled

tingue @ st area, acidic mouth, decaying teeth might

be stomach-yin def not holding down rising st/kd fire.

I'd nourish St/Sp, and warn against late night

" munchies. "

John G.

--- " dr. k " <aryaone wrote:

> Here is an odd case and I will appreciate help with

> it.

>

> Man 65 in relative good health.

> Had a somewhat fast pulse to begin with over a long

> time.

> Span of inhalation was OK exhalation short.

> Always felt stagnated in the ribs, had to

> occasionally breathe deep.

>

> Tip of tongue red with some raised papillae.

> Small linear fissures on ST area on tongue.

> Coat missing in ST area.

> Tongue overall reddish.

> Under tongue veins scanty.

>

> Abdomen - lower; pendulous, with a lot of fat

> middle, bloated somewhat and hardish

>

> Reddish dry skin on Ren 17

>

> Sedentary in habit, 5 " 11 " 255 lbs.

>

> BP usually normal, swinging to low, recently

> somewhat transient high

> readings

> quickly settling down.

>

> C/o heaviness under R ribs, mild.

>

> Mouth always acidic, teeth decayed over years.

>

> Lately cannot digest wheat and gluten.

> Constipated 2 days, dry stool.

>

> Still h/o virile.

>

> Hara at abdomen: Ren 15 depressed and sunken; Ren 17

> red and nearly inflamed

> in a chronic sense; Ren 12 Full; Ren 9 and 10 Empty

> and sunken; Ren 6.5 OK;

> Ren 5 for BL sunken and Empty.

>

> Always has a burtn smell in nostrils.

>

> On Dec9 sat in Cold and Wind for an hour, came home,

> had a large bowel

> movement, fell aspleep.

>

> Got up well, at 5 PM felt uneasy, took to bed,

> nauseaousm had major attack

> of Chills and Cold;

> pulse went crazily rapid, BP raised to dangerous

> levels; declined to go to

> hospital.

>

> Was given first a prescription for lower BP by

> destagnating LV.

>

> Later strategy changed to routine presc. - K 3, K 7,

> SP 6, HT 7, P 6, REN 6

> A great deal of moxa.

>

> Pulse and BP quickly settled down, man became well

> rested whole day,

> uneventful.

> Allparameters settled down.

>

> Exactly at 4:30 PM next day began to feel uneasy,

> wasuqickly given almost

> tye same prescription, setled down much more

> quickly.

>

> Rested well during night, better in morning.

>

> Was up in morning, reported feeling uneasy about

> 8:30 AM, again similar

> prescription, this time an added one for

> destagnating warmers.

>

> Again settled down.

>

> Is this an invasion of Cold superimposed on a Fu

> illness [somewhat fast

> pulses

> to begin with?]

>

> The time frame is squarely at 5 to 7 PM, which is K

> time, and about 8:30,

> which is LI time. At all other times he is well,

> except for the somewhat

> fast pulse

> he has had for a year or so.

>

> Any suggestions will be appreciated, herb wiese and

> needle wise, or by any

> other means.

>

> Dr. Holmes Keikobad

> MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

> www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for

> acupuncturists and health

> professionals

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

New Photos - easier uploading and sharing.

 

[Guest guest]

Fred Albrecht, ca I get your direct email please?

Dr. Holmes KeikobadMB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZwww.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals

 

-

Fred Albrecht

Chinese Medicine

Friday, December 12, 2003 2:31 PM

RE: Does Yin ascend - the answer...

[Guest guest]

Hi

 

I am confused. who is asking for the help?

DR. K or Fred?

 

I would be happy to add an extra view point if you supply a date of bith

(day/ month/ year) for the patient.

 

salvador

 

>

>did this as an excercise while reading through the message, typed what came

>up as I read.

>

> dr. k [aryaone]

> Thursday, December 11, 2003 6:04 PM

> Chinese Medicine

> Cc: Pal

> Re: Does Yin ascend - the answer...

>

>

> Here is an odd case and I will appreciate help with it.

>

> Man 65 in relative good health.

> [Fred Albrecht] hmmm, hows Ki symptoms. Lower back, knees, hearing, etc?

>(just asking)

>

> Had a somewhat fast pulse to begin with over a long time.

> [Fred Albrecht] too much yang, or not enough yin?

>

> Span of inhalation was OK exhalation short.

> [Fred Albrecht] Ki Qi def?

>

> Always felt stagnated in the ribs, had to occasionally breathe deep.

> [Fred Albrecht] Lv Qi def?

>

> Tip of tongue red with some raised papillae.

> [Fred Albrecht] Heat Heart - possibly from Ki Yin def (thus Ki Qi def)

>

> Small linear fissures on ST area on tongue.

> [Fred Albrecht] St yin def. (St draining Ki Yin? Possible cause of Ki

>Yin

>def? What's diet like? Too hot/dry foods?)

>

> Coat missing in ST area.

> [Fred Albrecht] St yin def.

>

> Tongue overall reddish.

> [Fred Albrecht] Heat.

>

> Under tongue veins scanty.

> [Fred Albrecht] ??? not familiar with this ... blood def???

>

> Abdomen - lower; pendulous, with a lot of fat

> [Fred Albrecht] why's he padding his 2st chakra? St/Sp/Earth issues?

>

> middle, bloated somewhat and hardish

> [Fred Albrecht] more padding/protection? (nevermind)

>

> Reddish dry skin on Ren 17

> [Fred Albrecht] heat in Ht (4th C). Too much activity here, possibly

>not

>enough cooling??? Ki Yin again?

>

> Sedentary in habit, 5 " 11 " 255 lbs.

> [Fred Albrecht] ST overloaded, Sp not transforming. Sp damaged by excess

>weight???

>

> BP usually normal, swinging to low, recently somewhat transient high

> readings quickly settling down.

> [Fred Albrecht] Ht unbalanced-> Fire, Water not controlling -> Ki?

>

> C/o heaviness under R ribs, mild.

> [Fred Albrecht] LV qi stag? mother not feeding child? (whats' c/o???)

>Grandmother not providing enough qi?

>

> Mouth always acidic, teeth decayed over years.

> [Fred Albrecht] What's diet like? too much yang foods draing St yin,

>draing Ki Yin? Ki governs teeth and bones...

>

> Lately cannot digest wheat and gluten.

> [Fred Albrecht] Sp affected (genetic clock kicking in? nevermind)

> Constipated 2 days, dry stool.

> [Fred Albrecht] LI yin def, where's the heat coming from, diet, Ki yin

>def, St heat, St yin def?

>

> Still h/o virile.

> [Fred Albrecht] (h/o???) does this refer to sexually virile? At 65?

>Careful of jing...

>

> Hara at abdomen: Ren 15 depressed and sunken; Ren 17 red and nearly

>inflamed

> in a chronic sense; Ren 12 Full; Ren 9 and 10 Empty and sunken; Ren 6.5

>OK;

> Ren 5 for BL sunken and Empty.

>

> Always has a burtn smell in nostrils.

> [Fred Albrecht] smell relates to fire, too much heat / def cooling

>mechanism?

>

> [Fred Albrecht] Since no mention of diet, and 65 years old, how about Ki

>yin starting to become def, not enough to completely peel the tongue yet,

>tending towards it though since St has now also started to become yin def.

>Def Ki yin meaning Ht fire out of control leading to blood pressure spikes

>and rapid pulse for long time. Heat in Ht not helping St (being yin def),

>St draws more from Ki, etc (wicked cycle). Overweight, breathing

>difficulties, Sp not providing good Gu qi to Lu leading to overall qi

>quality suspect, LV needs to work harder to with less, LV qi weaker,

>stagnated in ribs, LV Qi def. What's his emotional state, depressive?

>Tried to simulate breathing pattern, feels like Ki Qi taking long to drag

>the Lu qi down, Lu ok on exhale ... more Ki issue than Lu then???

>Conclussion: (1) Ki qi declining, more yin issue than yang, with St/Sp

>strained by excess weight and possible wrong diet, leading to St yin and Sp

>qi def. Symptoms of heat due to Ki yin def. (2) Lv qi stagnation due to

>def qi from Lu due to Sp not sending enough gu qi.

>

>

>

>

> On Dec9 sat in Cold and Wind for an hour, came home, had a large bowel

> movement, fell aspleep.

> [Fred Albrecht] from above, Lu qi def, wei qi weak, prone to pathogen

>invasion. Pathogen entered affecting LI at first... Cold weakens Ki ...

>

> Got up well, at 5 PM felt uneasy, took to bed, nauseaousm had major

>attack

> of Chills and Cold;

> pulse went crazily rapid, BP raised to dangerous levels; declined to go

>to

> hospital.

> [Fred Albrecht] 5 PM start of Ki period, Ki weak per above. St upset due

>to LV qi stagnation. Ki affected, Fire not controlled. Pathogen reached

>internals.

>

> Was given first a prescription for lower BP by destagnating LV.

>

> Later strategy changed to routine presc. - K 3, K 7, SP 6, HT 7, P 6,

>REN

>6

> A great deal of moxa.

> [Fred Albrecht] K3 tonify Ki, k7 ki yang, tonify Ki, Lv, Sp, Ht 7 helps

>regulate Ht, P6 nausea. Ok. Moxa to get yang up, drive out cold. Where

>moxa applied?

>

> Pulse and BP quickly settled down, man became well rested whole day,

> uneventful.

> Allparameters settled down.

>

> Exactly at 4:30 PM next day began to feel uneasy, wasuqickly given

>almost

> tye same prescription, setled down much more quickly.

>

> [Fred Albrecht] going out of Ub, into Ki time, Kidney issue coming up

>again??

>

> Rested well during night, better in morning.

>

> Was up in morning, reported feeling uneasy about 8:30 AM, again similar

> prescription, this time an added one for destagnating warmers.

>

> [Fred Albrecht] In St time (7-9), St issue showing up?

>

> Again settled down.

>

> Is this an invasion of Cold superimposed on a Fu illness [somewhat fast

> pulses

> to begin with?]

>

> [Fred Albrecht] I'd say invasion of wind-cold, with Ki and St/Sp def

>underlying.

>

> The time frame is squarely at 5 to 7 PM, which is K time, and about

>8:30,

> which is LI time. At all other times he is well, except for the somewhat

> fast pulse

> he has had for a year or so.

>

> [Fred Albrecht] Correction: Li 5-7am, St 7-9am. I'd say Li was

>affected

>because wind-cold attached Lu.

>

> Any suggestions will be appreciated, herb wiese and needle wise, or by

>any

> other means.

>

> [Fred Albrecht] I'm no acupuncturist, but from the shiatsu side suggest

>he start looking at his diet, and cut dowm on the sex .

>

> While the wind cold is there, [if using extra-ordinary vessels] work GV

>with masterpoint to boost/regulate yang. Work upper Ub (11-15) thoroughly

>to drive wind out & help St with Pc. Yang Linking vessel to release

>exterior. [if normal meridians] Ub (focusing on tonify 11, 12, 13, 17, 23,

>52), Ki 1, 3, 6, 7, Th 5, turn over, tonify Lu 1, 7, 9, & Sp 3, 6. Lots of

>stretches to get the body moving, suggest gentely warmed ginger tea with

>lemon.

>

> [Fred Albrecht] When wind-cold gone, boost Ki, Qi, St. [if using

>extra-ordinary vessels] UB, 13, 18, 19, 20, 21, 23, Through going vessel

>and CV and master points. [without extra-ordibnary meridians] Ub as

>before,

>tonify Ki 1, 3, 6, 7, turn over. Lu 1, 7, 9, St (44), 36, Sp 3, 6. With

>Hara, work CV4.

>

> [Fred Albrecht] (Need to ask about emotional state and diet.)

>

> [Fred Albrecht] Suggest preservation of jing and foods that damage St

>yin.

>

>

> fred

>

> Dr. Holmes Keikobad

> MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ

> www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and

>health

> professionals

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Fred Albrecht

Friday, December 12, 2003 2:31 PM

RE: Does Yin ascend - the answer...

 

did this as an excercise while reading through the message, typed what came up as I read.

 

dr. k [aryaone]Thursday, December 11, 2003 6:04 PMChinese Medicine Cc: PalRe: Does Yin ascend - the answer...

Here is an odd case and I will appreciate help with it.Man 65 in relative good health.[Fred Albrecht] hmmm, hows Ki symptoms. Lower back, knees, hearing, etc? (just asking)

[Dr K] chronic low grade pain back; knees hurt but fuctional; hearing fine, occasional ringing.

Had a somewhat fast pulse to begin with over a long time.[Fred Albrecht] too much yang, or not enough yin?

too much yang, maybe SP and K yin diminished

Span of inhalation was OK exhalation short.[Fred Albrecht] Ki Qi def?

K-LV inhales - seems OK

LU-HT exhales, short - maybe getting to have HT and LU yin def, or a general deficincy

Always felt stagnated in the ribs, had to occasionally breathe deep.[Fred Albrecht] Lv Qi def?

must be. History [h/o] of jaundice in youth; was neglected child and man; mostly ate outside, India.Tip of tongue red with some raised papillae.[Fred Albrecht] Heat Heart - possibly from Ki Yin def (thus Ki Qi def)

Sure.

Small linear fissures on ST area on tongue.[Fred Albrecht] St yin def. (St draining Ki Yin? Possible cause of Ki Yin def? What's diet like? Too hot/dry foods?)

100% ST draining K yin. Did not know it could.

Diet is Indian, spicy, not too heavily, tends to overeat.Coat missing in ST area.[Fred Albrecht] St yin def.

Yes.

Tongue overall reddish.[Fred Albrecht] Heat.

Yes.

Under tongue veins scanty.[Fred Albrecht] ??? not familiar with this ... blood def???

 

Veins under tongue show SP yin status. His scanty, so SP yin def.Abdomen - lower; pendulous, with a lot of fat[Fred Albrecht] why's he padding his 2st chakra? St/Sp/Earth issues?

What does this mean? He had a dreadful childhood and youth with a dysfunctional family.

Very sensitive, gifted man. Is that what this would mean?

middle, bloated somewhat and hardish[Fred Albrecht] more padding/protection? (nevermind)

please explain?

Reddish dry skin on Ren 17[Fred Albrecht] heat in Ht (4th C). Too much activity here, possibly not enough cooling??? Ki Yin again?

Yin again, sure

Sedentary in habit, 5" 11" 255 lbs.[Fred Albrecht] ST overloaded, Sp not transforming. Sp damaged by excess weight???

is that possible?

BP usually normal, swinging to low, recently somewhat transient highreadings quickly settling down.[Fred Albrecht] Ht unbalanced-> Fire, Water not controlling -> Ki?

Possibly. Seems to be in check now.C/o heaviness under R ribs, mild.[Fred Albrecht] LV qi stag? mother not feeding child? (whats' c/o???) Grandmother not providing enough qi?

c/o is complains of. Can't understand much of this. I would think essential problem is in SP.

Mouth always acidic, teeth decayed over years.[Fred Albrecht] What's diet like? too much yang foods draing St yin, draing Ki Yin? Ki governs teeth and bones...bones firm, no problem, even strong. certainly food problems, though now since few yrs says he eats well

Lately cannot digest wheat and gluten.[Fred Albrecht] Sp affected (genetic clock kicking in? nevermind)

do you mean inherited genes? all of the family, is stout SP types..

 

Constipated 2 days, dry stool.[Fred Albrecht] LI yin def, where's the heat coming from, diet, Ki yin def, St heat, St yin def?

ST heat, giving ove years, SP yin primarily, has depleted K yin, and LV stagnated.Still h/o virile.[Fred Albrecht] (h/o???) does this refer to sexually virile? At 65? Careful of jing...

Yes. Yet mature and guarded. That is what threw me off. I did not think one oculd have K

deficiency in presence of a virile status.Hara at abdomen: Ren 15 depressed and sunken; Ren 17 red and nearly inflamedin a chronic sense; Ren 12 Full; Ren 9 and 10 Empty and sunken; Ren 6.5 OK;Ren 5 for BL sunken and Empty.

Always has a burtn smell in nostrils.[Fred Albrecht] smell relates to fire, too much heat / def cooling mechanism?

All yins have upset cooling. Though he gives no particulae symptoms of Heat, except a reddish yin tang and Ren 17.[Fred Albrecht] Since no mention of diet, and 65 years old, how about Ki yin starting to become def, not enough to completely peel the tongue yet, tending towards it though since St has now also started to become yin def. Def Ki yin meaning Ht fire out of control leading to blood pressure spikes and rapid pulse for long time. Heat in Ht not helping St (being yin def), St draws more from Ki, etc (wicked cycle). Overweight, breathing difficulties, Sp not providing good Gu qi to Lu leading to overall qi quality suspect, LV needs to work harder to with less, LV qi weaker, stagnated in ribs, LV Qi def. What's his emotional state, depressive? Tried to simulate breathing pattern, feels like Ki Qi taking long to drag the Lu qi down, Lu ok on exhale ... more Ki issue than Lu then??? Conclussion: (1) Ki qi declining, more yin issue than yang, with St/Sp strained by excess weight and possible wrong diet, leading to St yin and Sp qi def. Symptoms of heat due to Ki yin def. (2) Lv qi stagnation due to def qi from Lu due to Sp not sending enough gu qi.

 

[Dec 12] All this seems right on. Saw him again today. BP has stabilized, did not go wrong after the spike on 9th, when it had settled by 7 PM and has remained steady ever since at 140 by 80 or so.

 

Pulse has actually slowed down, he perspired yesterday evening a little, and today at 12 noon to 2 PM, has dried up.

 

Continued a generic K SP Yin supportive treatment and moxa. Eats liquid soup and crushed figs in milk and corn flakes in milk, was told corn OK for gluten sensitive folk.

 

Went over the 5 PM problem time smoothly; except hands became cold at 5 PM for 10 mts, warmed quckly.

 

If you agree to a diet induced AT Heat leading to SP yon def, which depleted K yin, and later upsetting LU yin, and causing Stagnation in LV

Would agree.

On Dec9 sat in Cold and Wind for an hour, came home, had a large bowelmovement, fell aspleep.[Fred Albrecht] from above, Lu qi def, wei qi weak, prone to pathogen invasion. Pathogen entered affecting LI at first... Cold weakens Ki ...

Entirely correct.

Got up well, at 5 PM felt uneasy, took to bed, nauseaousm had major attackof Chills and Cold;pulse went crazily rapid, BP raised to dangerous levels; declined to go tohospital.[Fred Albrecht] 5 PM start of Ki period, Ki weak per above. St upset due to LV qi stagnation. Ki affected, Fire not controlled. Pathogen reached internals.

Yes.

Was given first a prescription for lower BP by destagnating LV.Later strategy changed to routine presc. - K 3, K 7, SP 6, HT 7, P 6, REN 6A great deal of moxa.[Fred Albrecht] K3 tonify Ki, k7 ki yang, tonify Ki, Lv, Sp, Ht 7 helps regulate Ht, P6 nausea. Ok. Moxa to get yang up, drive out cold. Where moxa applied?

Moxa on first day at Ren points from sternum to pubis, concentrating on Ren 6, 4. Next on points with needles HT 7 etc.

 

[Dec 12] Yesterday on Du 14, UB 17 for Blood, UB 23 for K yin, at lumbosacral junction. Seemed to respond very well.

Pulse nearly 5 to 6 beats to one respiration. BP in check. Stable, feels weak because of the episode. Tongue coat had appeared in ST area, tip less red, cracks in ST area have actually healed and are about 1/2 of what they were before.

 

Pulse and BP quickly settled down, man became well rested whole day,uneventful.Allparameters settled down.Exactly at 4:30 PM next day began to feel uneasy, wasuqickly given almosttye same prescription, setled down much more quickly.[Fred Albrecht] going out of Ub, into Ki time, Kidney issue coming up again??

Going from K to UB, does this mean healing? From yin to yang, backwards. Does illness go forwards or backwards when healing?

Rested well during night, better in morning.Was up in morning, reported feeling uneasy about 8:30 AM, again similarprescription, this time an added one for destagnating warmers.

[Fred Albrecht] In St time (7-9), St issue showing up?

The times are not completely accurate, but this I took to mean a K-LI connection of 5-7 AM PM; which transmittted to ST by LI-ST yang ming connection.

[Dec 11 and 12] Did not report problems in the morning.

Again settled down.Is this an invasion of Cold superimposed on a Fu illness [somewhat fastpulsesto begin with?]

[Fred Albrecht] I'd say invasion of wind-cold, with Ki and St/Sp def underlying.

Agree.

 

The time frame is squarely at 5 to 7 PM, which is K time, and about 8:30,which is LI time. At all other times he is well, except for the somewhatfast pulsehe has had for a year or so.

[Fred Albrecht] Correction: Li 5-7am, St 7-9am. I'd say Li was affected because wind-cold attached Lu.

[Dec 13] That is correct. Almost all Cold has left, this is 5th day, no fever, chills, pulse is settled at 5 to 6 beats per breath cycle.

 

Pulses as of today at 9:15 AM:

5 or 6 per breath cycle.

L cun - moderate, can be easily felt at yin and yang levels, sustain pressure

L guan - moderately Full, seems a bump which reflects theStagnated middle warmer; there is the slightest element of Wiry in GB. From the feel there is still Stagnation there, even if not a full blown one.

L chi - Strong, feels somewhat submerged, but beats full and well defined. Cannot diffrentiate any Weakness there, nor any xu condition. Puzzling.

 

Overall L pulses profile: LV Full, HT and K normal; maybe a Middle Warmer Stagnation.

 

R cun - LI felt, Lu gives way at deep pressue

R guan - Full ot begin with , on pressure SP gives way, as htough tending to Weak or Empty.

R chi - this is Weak, not in keeping with the other pulses, can be felt at all levels, does not empty under pressure, but seems un-free, restrained.

 

Overall P pulses profile: LU Weak; ST Full, SP Weak or Empty [disappears on deep pressure nearer bone]; Warmers under some ocnstraint, dont seem to communicate or flow freely.

 

[Please pardon the helte skelter notes]Any suggestions will be appreciated, herb wiese and needle wise, or by anyother means.

[Fred Albrecht] I'm no acupuncturist, but from the shiatsu side suggest he start looking at his diet, and cut dowm on the sex .

Believe me, this is a most profound intercation I have had with a healer, and I have been practising for decades.

 

I began the other regime of acupuncture, did not see this one you suggest; will incorporate today.

I am repeating prescription to see is I understood it corrcetly:

 

While the wind cold is there, [if using extra-ordinary vessels] work GV with masterpoint to boost/regulate yang.

This means UB 62-SI 3 combination. Your terminology is somewhat unfamiliar to me, bear with me.

 

Work upper Ub (11-15) thoroughly to drive wind out & help St with Pc. Yang Linking vessel to release exterior.

This meansneedle UB points [bilaterally?] 11 to 15. Tone or deplete or even movement? This is the 5th day and I have been taking out Cold since 1st day.

Yang linking is Yang wei mai, with UB 62-SI 3 combination?

 

[if normal meridians] Ub (focusing on tonify 11, 12, 13, 17, 23, 52), Ki 1, 3, 6, 7, Th 5, turn over, tonify Lu 1, 7, 9, & Sp 3, 6. Lots of stretches to get the body moving, suggest gentely warmed ginger tea with lemon.

If normal meridians, find this by pulse?

Man is overall OK with only problem of constipation; Cold feeling [this is 5th day since attack] cold feet, some times during day; cold hands for 10 mts at 5 PM, don't know how today will go.

Have suggested him to go on Pilate's machine which will stretch the Dickens out of him.

 

[Fred Albrecht] When wind-cold gone, boost Ki, Qi, St. [if using extra-ordinary vessels] UB, 13, 18, 19, 20, 21, 23, Through going vessel and CV and master points. [without extra-ordibnary meridians] Ub as before, tonify Ki 1, 3, 6, 7, turn over. Lu 1, 7, 9, St (44), 36, Sp 3, 6. With Hara, work CV4.

I will wait till 7th day, which is 15th for Cold to be gone, or when he does not hace Cold feeling and Cold hands feet at 5 PM.

please explain a little about extraord vessels, rather work with these.

Gave him seeds on UB 62-SI 3; GB 41; SP 4-P 6; K 6. Amd tsick moxa, the man lighted up!

[deleted this by mistake] [ ------------------------ :)fred consider him a celebate monk till he stabilizes. in all honor the man is very stable and very non-pushy with women. I have no worry to his wasting the jing.

 

I am incredibly grateful for the guidance. May I have your [Fred's] direct email?

 

Dr. Holmes Keikobad

MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZwww.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and healthprofessionals

 

[Guest guest]

fred

 

dr. k [aryaone]Saturday, December 13, 2003 10:25 AMChinese Medicine Subject: Re: Does Yin ascend - the answer...

Fred Albrecht, ca I get your direct email please?

Dr. Holmes KeikobadMB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZwww.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals

 

-

Fred Albrecht

Chinese Medicine

Friday, December 12, 2003 2:31 PM

RE: Does Yin ascend - the answer...

Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dr K

 

 

You mention "... was neglected child and man ...", And "Diet is Indian, spicy, not too heavily, tends to overeat."

 

Also copying from below...

"Abdomen - lower; pendulous, with a lot of fat[Fred Albrecht] why's he padding his 2st chakra? St/Sp/Earth issues?

What does this mean? He had a dreadful childhood and youth with a dysfunctional family.

Very sensitive, gifted man. Is that what this would mean?"

 

This is where I am not sure this list will allow what I'm about to talk about next. If not, Attilio, delete away. and I'll not go there again.

 

What my teacher has incorporated into the TCM is also the idea of chakra's and how that relates to the body, mind and emotions. I tend to find that this info has been left out of the general TCM studies and been left more to the esoterics and "bliss bunnies" <fred ducking>. Though the info I've learnt from the esoterics side helps to explain or supplement my TCM studies.

Earth/St/Sp sits in the 2nd chackra (I know some schools say earth is first, but that's another diversion I'm not prepared to take now). This relates to our choices in life, how we choose, our external relationships, ie with others, our family, sexual, with boss, with people, with work, etc, our ability to transform things from one thing into another, to be pensive and focus. We tend to shut this chakra off when we do not want to deal with things affecting the items I just mentioned. The element goes out of whack, Sp & St does not work as well. Some people might even goes as far as building shielding into that specific area of the body (just below the belly button). This can manifest as the bulging lower abdomen or solar plexus "belly" (looks like a beer belly). This could also relate to not getting enough sustenance from life, leading to overeating, trying to fill the emptyness inside oneself - he would probably enjoy going out an buying himself am present. This is what I meant as padding: protecting those parts of oneself on a physical level inorder to prevent further emotional scaring... Um this could get complicated, it approaches the person and TCM from a slightly different angle.

 

You asked:

"Sedentary in habit, 5" 11" 255 lbs.[Fred Albrecht] ST overloaded, Sp not transforming. Sp damaged by excess weight???

is that possible?"

Spleen is in charge of transformation and transportation, St helps slightly with this. If I have a coal stove, and wish it to stay nice and warm, I don't take a big shovel full of coal and dump it on the fire: that will kill the fire, everything slow down and smoke comes out - rather yucky stuff. Same with the body, Dumping large amounts of food down your throat "puts out the fire" in the stomach, it takes so much longer to digest, you feel bloated, and things generaly don't feel good, and the spleen/pancreas now has to deal with all this stuff, leading to strain on the spleen energetics and physical pancreas. Spleen also in charge of the muscles and how do you think excess weight affects this?

 

You asked:

"C/o heaviness under R ribs, mild.[Fred Albrecht] LV qi stag? mother not feeding child? (whats' c/o???) Grandmother not providing enough qi?

c/o is complains of. Can't understand much of this. I would think essential problem is in SP.

"

 

I refer here specifically to the heaviness under R ribs. Liver located there, and when LV qi is stagnating one can feels a discomfort there, if a stabing pain then most likely LV blood stagnation, if mild then LV qi. Question is why would the LV qi be stagnant, which is why I mentioned mother not feeding child along creative cycle: Ki yin nourishes Liver yin. If Ki yin def, then LV yin most likely def as well. If LV yin def, then LV blood def as well, if LV bood def, the LV will have to work damn hard to move qi -> LV def or stagnant. OR "grandmother not providing enough qi": LU governs qi in the body, and provides the qi that the LV smooths and distributes in all directions. When looking at anykind of stagnation then it helps to look at the LU as well (I always remember in the following way, "stagnation means things are not flowing properly, and to get it flowing go to that which is in charge of the qi, ie the LU". Or could the stagnation be of emotional cause?... so many options without a thorough questionaire.

 

You asked:

"Lately cannot digest wheat and gluten.[Fred Albrecht] Sp affected (genetic clock kicking in? nevermind)

do you mean inherited genes? all of the family, is stout SP types.."

 

uh-huh. Remember that we consist of genes as well That's why you get you mothers ailments, or you uncles bald spot. It's almost like we are a living clock, and at some time an alarm goes of that triggers a specific ailment. If you know what you family's clock is like, then you can learn from it. Eg, if you know that your family is all spleen types, an get the spleenish dis-eases, then be careful to not do the things that damages your spleen, so Eat Lightly, leave the sugars and dairies, etc.

 

You mention:

"Still h/o virile.[Fred Albrecht] (h/o???) does this refer to sexually virile? At 65? Careful of jing...

Yes. Yet mature and guarded. That is what threw me off. I did not think one oculd have K

deficiency in presence of a virile status."

Then what does the "[Dr K] chronic low grade pain back; knees hurt but fuctional; hearing fine, occasional ringing." signal to you?

 

You asked:

"[Fred Albrecht] going out of Ub, into Ki time, Kidney issue coming up again??

Going from K to UB, does this mean healing? From yin to yang, backwards. Does illness go forwards or backwards when healing?"

 

I meant herely that the symptom appears during (almost the end of) the UB time, and then continues into Ki time. I meant that this is another symtom that points to a Ki issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fred Albrecht] Correction: Li 5-7am, St 7-9am. I'd say Li was affected because wind-cold attached Lu.

[Dec 13] That is correct. Almost all Cold has left, this is 5th day, no fever, chills, pulse is settled at 5 to 6 beats per breath cycle.

 

Pulses as of today at 9:15 AM:

5 or 6 per breath cycle.

L cun - moderate, can be easily felt at yin and yang levels, sustain pressure

L guan - moderately Full, seems a bump which reflects theStagnated middle warmer; there is the slightest element of Wiry in GB. From the feel there is still Stagnation there, even if not a full blown one.

L chi - Strong, feels somewhat submerged, but beats full and well defined. Cannot diffrentiate any Weakness there, nor any xu condition. Puzzling.

 

Overall L pulses profile: LV Full, HT and K normal; maybe a Middle Warmer Stagnation.

 

R cun - LI felt, Lu gives way at deep pressue

R guan - Full ot begin with , on pressure SP gives way, as htough tending to Weak or Empty.

R chi - this is Weak, not in keeping with the other pulses, can be felt at all levels, does not empty under pressure, but seems un-free, restrained.

 

Overall P pulses profile: LU Weak; ST Full, SP Weak or Empty [disappears on deep pressure nearer bone]; Warmers under some ocnstraint, dont seem to communicate or flow freely.

 

[Please pardon the helte skelter notes][Fred Albrecht]

 

No pardon needed. My pulse diagnosis is not existant. I can understand what you say, but can't feel the pulses myself. I could not feel the pulses the way they were discribed, so have rather focused on my tongue and facial diagnosis, and questionaire. But from what you describe, seems LV Excess, LU weak, ST full, SP weak, Gate of Vitality weak. This looks like excess in St (due to overeating), causing weak Sp, nt enough Gu qi to Lu - > lung weak, Lv not getting enough qi to work with.

 

You mention:

 

While the wind cold is there, [if using extra-ordinary vessels] work GV with masterpoint to boost/regulate yang.

This means UB 62-SI 3 combination. Your terminology is somewhat unfamiliar to me, bear with me[Fred Albrecht] "

 

In our last module in class we were taught the extra-ordinary vessels (XOV). At the moment I am not sure when to treat only XOV or when the ordinary meridains (as in sp, st, lv, etc) which is why I gave two treatment options, one for with XOV and one without. GV masterpoint being SI3 (which activates the Governing Vessel, GV, or Du Mai). In Shiatsu I'll work the SI, tonify SI3 to activate GV, then work the GV up along the spine. Um difficult to explain how to work, like finger pressure up along spine, with some other stuff. I assume with UB62 you refer to the yang ankle vessel, th GV's coupled pair?

 

 

You mention"

Work upper Ub (11-15) thoroughly to drive wind out & help St with Pc. Yang Linking vessel to release exterior.

 

This meansneedle UB points [bilaterally?] 11 to 15. Tone or deplete or even movement? This is the 5th day and I have been taking out Cold since 1st day.

Yang linking is Yang wei mai, with UB 62-SI 3 combination?

"

 

I was taught a technique help with colds and flues. I basically consists of applied deep pressure from ub 11-15 in quick succession, repeated a couple of times, on both sides of the spin. I don't use needles to do this (not an accupuncturist) but my fingers, and if the client can take it, I'll use my elbow. Don't know how to translate this to using needles. To work Yang linking vessel (yang wei mai) I activate Ub 62 first, then work the rest of the vessel.

 

 

You asked:

"

[if normal meridians] Ub (focusing on tonify 11, 12, 13, 17, 23, 52), Ki 1, 3, 6, 7, Th 5, turn over, tonify Lu 1, 7, 9, & Sp 3, 6. Lots of stretches to get the body moving, suggest gentely warmed ginger tea with lemon.

If normal meridians, find this by pulse?

"

 

With [if normal meridians] I meant that if you are using the normal meridians instead of the XOV - nte gave options for XOV and normal meridians treatment.

 

You said "Have suggested him to go on Pilate's machine which will stretch the Dickens out of him."

Stretching helps to open the channels and to get things flowing once more. Breathing properly and deeply helps as well.

 

You asked:

"

please explain a little about extraord vessels, rather work with these.

Gave him seeds on UB 62-SI 3; GB 41; SP 4-P 6; K 6. Amd tsick moxa, the man lighted up!

"

 

From what I undrestand from the extra-ordinary vessels, they work at a deeper level than you ordinary meridians. Theory goes that they are the source for the ordinary meridians, although there is not a direct one to one mapping (8 XOV to 12 ordinary meridians). They can be used to balance yin and yang, link yin and yang channels together, upper with below, etc. They are a study all on their own. The best book I could find on them is "Meridian Acupuncture" by John E. Pirog. The points you mention refers to the master points for the yang ankle vessel (yang qiao mai, I can't spell the chinese words, and I was taught the englis words), governing vessel, Belt vessel, through going vessel (penetrating vessel), yin linking vessel, and yin ankle vessel. You basically activated six of the eight XOV, no wonder the man lighted up!

 

You say:

"

I am incredibly grateful for the guidance. May I have your [Fred's] direct email?

"

My pleasure. One day I might just ask the same of you.

 

fred

fred