Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Hi Salvatore & Michi Not only is the tongue linked to the muscles and fascia down the front but also......most definitely at the neck and upper back at the tongue root...... where it can be seen - instantaneously - when using myofaswcial release techniques or even acupuncture in the yang domain.....that the tongue signs change within seconds or minutes of treatment responding very quickly to tensions releases. THEN the truer signs will be seen and not covered-over with superficial and confusing factors. Many aspects of body color, body shape, and coatings will change instantly revealing the deeper patterns. Richard In a message dated 12/10/2003 1:13:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, salvador_march writes: Hi Michi,It is useful to remember that the tongue is a muscle that links all the way down the front of the body myofascia.The shape/ texture / structure colour of the tongue is in part the way it is because internal tensions, often due to emotional withholding will constrict fluids to and from the tongue muscle.Wether one uses the tools of TCM, 5 Elements, Meridian Qi Acu. or other modality In an acupunture session. Effectiveness must mean that there is a release of internal tension and this will be reflected in the tongue muscle. So colour and shape can change ver quickly. both for the better and when we misdaignose ...for the worse.I am also interested in your statement of 'someone is constitutionally Qi/Blood deficient ' For me the difficulty with such statements is, that although they may on the surface be accurate, the label may miss the underlying emotional holding that leads to such tendencies.salvador Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 [Michi wrote: I wondered whether TCM treatments can change the tongue body colour ie. from pale to normal pink. ... If someone is constitutionally Qi/Blood deficient and thus he/she always had a pale tongue, would this ever become healthy pink, when treated with acupuncture??] > Not only can the color of tongue body proper change, it has to, for that is the purpose of the session. If your treatment protocol is correct, the color will change within minutes of placing the needles. Example: A woman, 45, who has a HT offending Metal condition, and presents with Dryness problems superimposed on a HT yin Deficient substratum. The Dry tongue is very visible with resulting tiny furrows and fissures, and the typical depressions at the tip. The actual color of the body is difficult to see, because the grayish Dryness has camouflaged it. All one sees of HT yin Def is the tell tale and very common tip, we are a messed up civilization. The protocol I use is bi-phasal and accompanied by 8 channel Rx and the very necessary summarization. I also use, exclusively, 5-Shu Mother-Son points, structured on a 24 hour Horary Clock, down to the last 24 minute particle. So I have the right window of the " open " point, and the correct Mother or Son Shu point. With the first placement, the tongue would wet itself, and with some qi modulation, inside of 5 mts, the Dryness is gone. Now one sees the reddish color of the body, or Paleness if Blood is Spent, and so on. To sum up, the tongue color must change during the session. It is one of the parameters of the successs of the intervention. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Salvador My practice during the past 8+ years has been (day in and day out) using my synergized version of cupping and Gua Sha which in the year 2000 was named by Dr. Wu, Boping as BaGuaFa. (a combined term of Ba Guan (cupping) and Gua Sha (fritctional rubbing). The more I am asked.....the more I focus on a better explanation. 80% of our bodies are liquid......and all those liquids have a flow. Each flow is based upon different fluid dynamics. Liquids flow thru various (real) vessels such as the circulatory system, lymph system, spinal column, joints, and additionally thru channels formed by the proximity between two muscles or between muscles & bones and even organs (which is deeper). 60% of our body fluid flows thru these muscle/fascial sulci which includes..... over, under and around muscles, bones & organs. All of these structures are wrapped in fascia. When the fascia and fluids become stagnated especially in the neck & upper back.....the tongue root becomes pressurized often causing undue signs such as darker colored tongue body, even purplish tongue body, dryness of tongue coating etc. When the fascia is released and the blood stagnation (which I call sludge) is released from deeper levels - pressures to the tongue are instantly changed/released. These are often more superficial disturbances causing some of the tongue signs and can fool the practitioner into thinking there is a more systemic blood stagnation. As example while treating cases with dark red dry tongue signs one immediately see the tongue turn to a normal pink or even a pale moist tongue.One might miss the signs pertaining to say near anemia rather than thinking the signs of blood stagnation (as one example). Acupuncture is NOT only or is NOT primarily neurological. That is to simplistic. What exists in the muscle/fascia sulci and other actual channels are blood vessels, nerves, lymph vessels and as importantly....the ground substance (interstitial fluids) which western 'science' (and not western medicine) calls the Extra Cellular Matrix. The ECM is the main immune/defense system, a repair system AND a communication system. One primary operation is via fluid dynamics. Each point location simultaneously addresses and affects the dermatome (skin), myotome (muscle), scleratome (joint) and visceratome (organ). In the majority of cases....more effectively than acupuncture needles.......these ECM moving techniques causes results on a gross physical basis which effects both a local and global effect in the body. When we insert a needle into a channel......we are inserting into a liquid arena of mostly interstitial fluids and in 80% of the points....... simultaneously at or near blood vessels and nerves. So we are effecting the blood vessels, the nerves AND also the fluid dynamics in and of the channel which is NOT etheric. It's real and it's physical and the flow is affected and changed. Just imagine the names of many points. There was no accident that the ancients KNEW there was liquid in the channels. Well, spring, stream, river, pool, and of course sea. We do say that there is qi......but we are not taught that there IS definitely liquid. When yin & yang are separated we are dead and not living. There can be no movement of qi without liquid. Richard In a message dated 12/10/2003 4:56:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, salvador_march writes: Hi Richard :)Many thanks for your input. I am in the process of learning myofascial release techniques. what you share I find facisnating. can you elaborate more on your last point "THEN the truer signs will be seen and not covered-over with superficial and confusing factors" ?salvador Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Hi Michi, It is useful to remember that the tongue is a muscle that links all the way down the front of the body myofascia. The shape/ texture / structure colour of the tongue is in part the way it is because internal tensions, often due to emotional withholding will constrict fluids to and from the tongue muscle. Wether one uses the tools of TCM, 5 Elements, Meridian Qi Acu. or other modality In an acupunture session. Effectiveness must mean that there is a release of internal tension and this will be reflected in the tongue muscle. So colour and shape can change ver quickly. both for the better and when we misdaignose ...for the worse. I am also interested in your statement of 'someone is constitutionally Qi/Blood deficient ' For me the difficulty with such statements is, that although they may on the surface be accurate, the label may miss the underlying emotional holding that leads to such tendencies. salvador >I wondered whether TCM treatments can change the tongue body colour >ie. from pale to normal pink. >The coatings, I experienced, can change quite a bit, but how about >the tongue body? Especially with acupuncture treatments. >If someone is constitutionally Qi/Blood deficient and thus he/she >always had a pale tongue, would this ever become healthy pink, when >treated with acupuncture?? > >Michi > > _______________ Sign-up for a FREE BT Broadband connection today! http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Hi Pam Depends on the problem. What I can tell you is that coupled with herbal formulas for depression - the answer is a resounding YES. The ultimate benefit is that they will no longer need their strong meds or for that matter the majority of those western meds. Of course you can't be involved in their western medications but you can tell them to advise their MD or maybe even work with their MD (if for some strange reason they are open to having their patients off the meds). Richard In a message dated 12/10/2003 6:37:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, needledoc writes: Hi,Richard and all, Does this also work well for patients who are on several strong western meds (anit-depressants, pain meds, etc)? Thank you, Pam Price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Hi,Richard and all, Does this also work well for patients who are on several strong western meds (anit-depressants, pain meds, etc)? Thank you, Pam Price Hi Salvatore & Michi Not only is the tongue linked to the muscles and fascia down the front but also......most definitely at the neck and upper back at the tongue root...... where it can be seen - instantaneously - when using myofaswcial release techniques or even acupuncture in the yang domain.....that the tongue signs change within seconds or minutes of treatment responding very quickly to tensions releases. THEN the truer signs will be seen and not covered-over with superficial and confusing factors. Many aspects of body color, body shape, and coatings will change instantly revealing the deeper patterns. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Hi Richard Many thanks for your input. I am in the process of learning myofascial release techniques. what you share I find facisnating. can you elaborate more on your last point " THEN the truer signs will be seen and not covered-over with superficial and confusing factors " ? salvador >Hi Salvatore & Michi > >Not only is the tongue linked to the muscles and fascia down the front but >also......most definitely at the neck and upper back at the tongue >root...... >where it can be seen - instantaneously - when using myofaswcial release >techniques or even acupuncture in the yang domain.....that the tongue signs >change >within seconds or minutes of treatment responding very quickly to tensions >releases. THEN the truer signs will be seen and not covered-over with >superficial >and confusing factors. > >Many aspects of body color, body shape, and coatings will change instantly >revealing the deeper patterns. > >Richard _______________ Get Hotmail on your mobile phone http://www.msn.co.uk/msnmobile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2003 Report Share Posted December 10, 2003 Richard How to learn these Releases? Dr. Holmes KeikobadMB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZwww.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 11, 2003 Report Share Posted December 11, 2003 Hi Michi My view upon this is that the tongue, like the pulse will constantly change as treatments progress. The tongue colour can only be a constant pink if there is equilibrium, and this would only be the case if all reletives are constant - which they are not. like everyting in nature there is a constant flux - the seasons change, thus the weather changes - the indication of a pinkish tongue is a state of equilibrium but equilibrium is relative to flow. Therefore environments and consciousness level in individuals will change according to their experience. So a tongue colour can change permenantly only if all the variables become constant. Depending on your treatments, for eg if your treatments are geared towards the root of spleen qi xu, you may be eliminating branches - ie wood invading earth ther fore the tongue will look different. However if you have eliminated liver qi stag first (thus chop off the branches) the tongue will change back to plale, slightly wet and possibly with teeth marks around the edges. Again as treatment progresses you are bringing the individual back to a state of balance. If You look at it another way - the dis-ease process created and inbalance therfore the tongue colour changed to what it is now, therefore if acupuncture treatments are progressive then why cant the tongue change for the better. It is worth bearing in mind that the energetics of the body will change instantly and over time the physical manifestations will follow - this could be a long time. Thus in conclusion you may be able to create equilibrium for some time until the bodily function changes again, be it with respect to mental, emotional or even sprirtual experiences. The pink coloured tongue is an indication of where you would like to see your patient be. regards Urvish Magdani On Wed, 10 Dec 2003 15:09 , Michi <mnaomoto sent: I wondered whether TCM treatments can change the tongue body colour ie. from pale to normal pink. The coatings, I experienced, can change quite a bit, but how about the tongue body? Especially with acupuncture treatments. If someone is constitutionally Qi/Blood deficient and thus he/she always had a pale tongue, would this ever become healthy pink, when treated with acupuncture?? Michi Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to <Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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