Guest guest Posted December 7, 2003 Report Share Posted December 7, 2003 I know this is a bit off the beaten track with TCM but it captures something special. An Indian holy man that doesn't need to eat, something that was practiced by Daoists aswell. Have a read and see what you think. Taken from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3236118.stm Doctors and experts are baffled by an Indian hermit who claims not to have eaten or drunk anything for several decades - but is still in perfect health. Prahlad Jani, a holy man, or fakir, who is over 70 years old, has just spent 10 days under constant observation in Sterling Hospital, in the western Indian city of Ahmedabad. During that time, he did not consume anything and " neither did he pass urine or stool " , according to the hospital's deputy superintendent, Dr Dinesh Desai. Yet he is in fine mental and physical fettle, say doctors. Most people can live without food for several weeks, with the body drawing on its fat and protein stores. But the average human can survive for only three to four days without water. Followers of Indian holy men and ascetics have often ascribed extraordinary powers to them, but such powers are seldom subject to scientific inspection. Mouthwash " A series of tests conducted on him show his body mechanism is that of a normal person, " said Dr Desai. Mr Jani spends most of his time in a cave near the Ambaji temple in Gujarat state. He spent his 10 days in hospital in a specially prepared room, with a sealed-off toilet and constant video surveillance. To help the doctors verify his claims, Mr Jani agreed to avoid bathing for his time in hospital. The only fluid he was allowed was a small amount of water, to use as mouthwash. One hundred millilitres of water were given to him, and then collected and measured in a beaker when he spat it out, to make sure none had been drunk. Recycling energy A statement from Ahmedabad's Association of Physicians says that despite no water entering his body, urine nonetheless appeared to form in his bladder - only to be re-absorbed by the bladder walls. At the end of his confinement, doctors noted no deterioration in his condition, other than a slight drop in his weight. " I feel no need for food and water, " says Mr Jani, who claims he was blessed by a goddess at the age of eight and has lived in caves ever since. He grew up in Charod village in Mehsana district and wears the dress of a devotee of the goddess Ambaji - a red sari-like garment, nose ring, bangles and crimson flowers in the hair. He also wears the vermilion " tika " mark on his forehead, more often seen on married Hindu women. His followers call him " mataji " or goddess. More tests He says he has survived several decades without food or water because of a hole in his palate. Drops of water filter through this hole, he says, sustaining him. " He has never fallen ill and can continue to live like this, " said Bhiku Prajapati, one of Mr Jani's many followers. " A hole in the palate is an abnormal phenomenon, " says Dr Desai. His colleague, Dr Urman Dhruv, told the BBC a full medical report is being prepared on Mr Jani's 10 days under observation. Doctors say they cannot verify his claim to have not eaten or drunk for decades - but by observing his feat under laboratory conditions, they hope to learn more about the human body. It is likely that doctors will want to examine Mr Jani again in order to solve the medical mystery he has presented them with. Any comments? Attilio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 This is a very interesting subject, the act of spiritual self control and disciplin one that takes mastery of the involuntary bodily functions. If you read a book called 'Autobiography of a yogi' - Parmahansa Yogananda shares his experiences of some indian masters who divulge into the art of yoga and self mastery, whereby they are capable of some amazing things ie a man who can levitate, a man who fights tigers with his bare hands etc. In terms of - is it possible these people are using up their vital force at double the rate ie Jing, therefore the kindneys would be the main organs to be effected - however it still doesnt explain how these people still live for so long after their penance has begun, maybe it just boils down to faith, Jesus did always say 'man shall not live by bread and breath alone' regards Urvish Magdani On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 11:24 , <attiliodalberto sent: I know this is a bit off the beaten track with TCM but it captures something special. An Indian holy man that doesn't need to eat, something that was practiced by Daoists aswell. Have a read and see what you think. Taken from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3236118.stm Doctors and experts are baffled by an Indian hermit who claims not to have eaten or drunk anything for several decades - but is still in perfect health. Prahlad Jani, a holy man, or fakir, who is over 70 years old, has just spent 10 days under constant observation in Sterling Hospital, in the western Indian city of Ahmedabad. During that time, he did not consume anything and "neither did he pass urine or stool", according to the hospital's deputy superintendent, Dr Dinesh Desai. Yet he is in fine mental and physical fettle, say doctors. Most people can live without food for several weeks, with the body drawing on its fat and protein stores. But the average human can survive for only three to four days without water. Followers of Indian holy men and ascetics have often ascribed extraordinary powers to them, but such powers are seldom subject to scientific inspection. Mouthwash "A series of tests conducted on him show his body mechanism is that of a normal person," said Dr Desai. Mr Jani spends most of his time in a cave near the Ambaji temple in Gujarat state. He spent his 10 days in hospital in a specially prepared room, with a sealed-off toilet and constant video surveillance. To help the doctors verify his claims, Mr Jani agreed to avoid bathing for his time in hospital. The only fluid he was allowed was a small amount of water, to use as mouthwash. One hundred millilitres of water were given to him, and then collected and measured in a beaker when he spat it out, to make sure none had been drunk. Recycling energy A statement from Ahmedabad's Association of Physicians says that despite no water entering his body, urine nonetheless appeared to form in his bladder - only to be re-absorbed by the bladder walls. At the end of his confinement, doctors noted no deterioration in his condition, other than a slight drop in his weight. "I feel no need for food and water," says Mr Jani, who claims he was blessed by a goddess at the age of eight and has lived in caves ever since. He grew up in Charod village in Mehsana district and wears the dress of a devotee of the goddess Ambaji - a red sari-like garment, nose ring, bangles and crimson flowers in the hair. He also wears the vermilion "tika" mark on his forehead, more often seen on married Hindu women. His followers call him "mataji" or goddess. More tests He says he has survived several decades without food or water because of a hole in his palate. Drops of water filter through this hole, he says, sustaining him. "He has never fallen ill and can continue to live like this," said Bhiku Prajapati, one of Mr Jani's many followers. "A hole in the palate is an abnormal phenomenon," says Dr Desai. His colleague, Dr Urman Dhruv, told the BBC a full medical report is being prepared on Mr Jani's 10 days under observation. Doctors say they cannot verify his claim to have not eaten or drunk for decades - but by observing his feat under laboratory conditions, they hope to learn more about the human body. It is likely that doctors will want to examine Mr Jani again in order to solve the medical mystery he has presented them with. Any comments? Attilio Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to <Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Hi Urvish, Yes, I have read an autobiography of a yogi, excellent book! What interests me here, from a TCM perspective, is the Zangfu energy recycling. Usually, impure food stuff go from the spleen to the small intestine, then to the large intestine, faeces is then defecated and urine is moved to the bladder to be passed. At both these points of exit, a new connection is established that allows for total re-absorption. The question is where is the connection to, back to the stomach or spleen? urvish.magdani wrote: This is a very interesting subject, the act of spiritual self control and disciplin one that takes mastery of the involuntary bodily functions. If you read a book called 'Autobiography of a yogi' - Parmahansa Yogananda shares his experiences of some indian masters who divulge into the art of yoga and self mastery, whereby they are capable of some amazing things ie a man who can levitate, a man who fights tigers with his bare hands etc. In terms of - is it possible these people are using up their vital force at double the rate ie Jing, therefore the kindneys would be the main organs to be effected - however it still doesnt explain how these people still live for so long after their penance has begun, maybe it just boils down to faith, Jesus did always say 'man shall not live by bread and breath alone' regards Urvish MagdaniOn Sun, 07 Dec 2003 11:24 , Recycling energyA statement from Ahmedabad's Association of Physicians says that despite no water entering his body, urine nonetheless appeared to form in his bladder - only to be re-absorbed by the bladder walls. At the end of his confinement, doctors noted no deterioration in his condition, other than a slight drop in his weight. Kind regards Attilio Chinese Traditional Medicine BT Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 As I see it, Atillo, there is no such connection, nor need be. If you racall, also in Daoist practices there are matter/energy commoutations. The most famous is Hui Jing Bu Nao - the mutation of Jing-sperm (yes, the substance) into Qi that is directed to the brain via the Du mai in meditation. I believe that highly advanced practitioners of meditation can cause this transformations of substance into Qi - and sometimes v.v. Thus, feeding on a very limited supply of physical nourishment, if at all, and air, these ascetics can recycle and transform Qi to its utmost energetic components and feed their cells. You should bear in mind that these ascetics are used to be in meditation for days and weeks and months. This way, they don't give away energy thus being able to recycle their energy and purify it ever and ever. > Hi Urvish, > > > > Yes, I have read an autobiography of a yogi, excellent book! > > > > What interests me here, from a TCM perspective, is the Zangfu energy recycling. Usually, impure food stuff go from the spleen to the small intestine, then to the large intestine, faeces is then defecated and urine is moved to the bladder to be passed. At both these points of exit, a new connection is established that allows for total re-absorption. The question is where is the connection to, back to the stomach or spleen? > > > > urvish.magdani@t... wrote: > This is a very interesting subject, the act of spiritual self control and disciplin one that takes mastery of the involuntary bodily functions. If you read a book called 'Autobiography of a yogi' - Parmahansa Yogananda shares his experiences of some indian masters who divulge into the art of yoga and self mastery, whereby they are capable of some amazing things ie a man who can levitate, a man who fights tigers with his bare hands etc. > > > > In terms of - is it possible these people are using up their vital force at double the rate ie Jing, therefore the kindneys would be the main organs to be effected - however it still doesnt explain how these people still live for so long after their penance has begun, maybe it just boils down to faith, Jesus did always say 'man shall not live by bread and breath alone' > > regards > > > Urvish Magdani > > > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 11:24 , > > Recycling energy > > A statement from Ahmedabad's Association of Physicians says that > despite no water entering his body, urine nonetheless appeared to > form in his bladder - only to be re-absorbed by the bladder walls. > > At the end of his confinement, doctors noted no deterioration in his > condition, other than a slight drop in his weight. Kind regards > > Attilio > > Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > > > > BT Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Are you suggesting then, that from the points of exit, i.e. the urinary bladder and the large intestine, that the energy is redirected via the Du mai meridian? Attilio " Shmuel Halevi Ph.D " <halevis@a...> wrote: > As I see it, Atillo, there is no such connection, nor need be. If > you racall, also in Daoist practices there are matter/energy > commoutations. The most famous is Hui Jing Bu Nao - the mutation of > Jing-sperm (yes, the substance) into Qi that is directed to the > brain via the Du mai in meditation. I believe that highly advanced > practitioners of meditation can cause this transformations of > substance into Qi - and sometimes v.v. Thus, feeding on a very > limited supply of physical nourishment, if at all, and air, these > ascetics can recycle and transform Qi to its utmost energetic > components and feed their cells. You should bear in mind that these > ascetics are used to be in meditation for days and weeks and months. > This way, they don't give away energy thus being able to recycle > their energy and purify it ever and ever. > > > > > > Hi Urvish, > > > > > > > > Yes, I have read an autobiography of a yogi, excellent book! > > > > > > > > What interests me here, from a TCM perspective, is the Zangfu > energy recycling. Usually, impure food stuff go from the spleen to > the small intestine, then to the large intestine, faeces is then > defecated and urine is moved to the bladder to be passed. At both > these points of exit, a new connection is established that allows > for total re-absorption. The question is where is the connection to, > back to the stomach or spleen? > > > > > > > > urvish.magdani@t... wrote: > > This is a very interesting subject, the act of spiritual self > control and disciplin one that takes mastery of the involuntary > bodily functions. If you read a book called 'Autobiography of a > yogi' - Parmahansa Yogananda shares his experiences of some indian > masters who divulge into the art of yoga and self mastery, whereby > they are capable of some amazing things ie a man who can levitate, a > man who fights tigers with his bare hands etc. > > > > > > > > In terms of - is it possible these people are > using up their vital force at double the rate ie Jing, therefore the > kindneys would be the main organs to be effected - however it still > doesnt explain how these people still live for so long after their > penance has begun, maybe it just boils down to faith, Jesus did > always say 'man shall not live by bread and breath alone' > > > > regards > > > > > > Urvish Magdani > > > > > > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 11:24 , > > > > Recycling energy > > > > A statement from Ahmedabad's Association of Physicians says that > > despite no water entering his body, urine nonetheless appeared to > > form in his bladder - only to be re-absorbed by the bladder walls. > > > > At the end of his confinement, doctors noted no deterioration in > his > > condition, other than a slight drop in his weight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards > > > > Attilio > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > > > > > > > > > > BT Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. > Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was meant > to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Hi All, & Attilio, Urvish, & Sandeep, Excerpt from the article forwarded by Attilio: " Recycling energy: A statement from Ahmedabad's Association of Physicians says that despite no water entering his body, urine nonetheless appeared to form in his bladder - only to be re-absorbed by the bladder walls. ... At the end of his confinement, doctors noted no deterioration in his condition, other than a slight drop in his weight ... " Attilio Sandeep, an Indian friend (vet, in the final stages of completing his PhD in our Institute), wrote: " Phil, This is beyond imagination, yet I personally believe it. I remember when i was young people like him (called sadhu, dedicated holy person), use to come to school and have their show.Once man like him dug a hole in the ground around 10X10 feet and went inside covered in the same way as it was and stayed inside for 48 hours. After coming out it took around 5 min for him to come back to normal senses and he was normal. He said it was because of meditation specially PRANAYAM ( controlled breathing). That is the way India goes. Best wishes and kind regards, Sandeep " Urvish wrote: " This is a very interesting subject, the act of spiritual self control and discipline is one that takes mastery of the involuntary bodily functions. If you read a book called 'Autobiography of a yogi' - Parmahansa Yogananda shares his experiences of some indian masters who divulge the art of yoga and self mastery, whereby they are capable of some amazing things, i.e. a man who can levitate, a man who fights tigers with his bare hands etc. In terms of , is it possible [Yogis] are using up their vital force at double the rate i.e. Jing, therefore the KI would be the main organ to be affected. However it still doesn't explain how these people still live for so long after their penance has begun. Maybe it just boils down to faith; Jesus said 'Man shall not live by bread and breath alone' regards, Urvish Attilio also wrote: " What interests me from a TCM perspective is recycling of the Zangfu energy. Usually, impure food stuff go from the spleen to the small intestine, then to the large intestine, faeces is then defecated and urine is moved to the bladder to be passed. At both these points of exit, a new connection is established that allows for total re-absorption. The question is where is the connection to, back to the stomach or spleen? " Shmuel wrote: " As I see it, Atillo, there is no such connection, nor need be. Matter/energy mutations [are part of] Daoist practices. The most famous is Hui Jing Bu Nao - mutation of Jing-sperm (yes, the substance) into Qi that is directed to the brain via the Du Mai in meditation. ... highly advanced practitioners of meditation can transform substance into Qi - and sometimes v.v. Thus, feeding on a very limited supply of physical nourishment, if at all, and air, these ascetics can recycle and transform Qi to its utmost energetic components and feed their cells. These ascetics are used to be in meditation for days and weeks and months. This way, they don't give away energy thus being able to recycle their energy and purify it ever and ever. " The ability of trained meditators (Indian or Western) to slow metabolism is well proven in the past 40 years. Much " visceral learning " is an ANIMAL trait, i.e. animals can be conditioned to control many autonomic functions by a combination of biofeedback and Pavlovian (reward success, no reward for failure) methods. That said, IMO there is a MINIMAL amount of water and solid nutrition (CHO, protein, minerals & vitamins) that can be said to be ESSENTIAL for life. IMO, it is IMPOSSIBLE to maintain Qi (Prana), health and bodyweight on a life-long fast (no feed, no water). ALL people have their weak point - their " Achilles Heel " . Without doubt, " trained people " (Shamans, adepts, yogis) can survive many deprivations that would harm untrained people, or even kill them. The RC Church says that Mary (Christ's Mother) was the ONLY human to have been Assumed (taken up alive to Heaven). Many Christians do NOT believe that. Otherwise, ALL the great Religious Teachers of old, even Christ, have died. The most adept Yogis will also die sometime. Am I wrong? There are anecdotal reports of people in China whose bodies were recovered 15- 45 minutes after drowning and who were resuscitated successfully by acupuncture at GV26 and KI01. The credibility of those anecdotes, however, must be low. Total deprivation of air (oxygen) for >5 minutes usually causes brain damage, and for >15? minutes usually causes death. Those figures probably relate to " untrained " people. " Trained people " (adepts, yogis) can go into a trance-state, slow their metabolism, and last longer without air, but they have their limits also. (b) Total deprivation of water (fluid) for >7 days also causes death in most people. By recycling fluid (and, maybe, drinking urine), yogis may last longer than " normal people " , but IMO, it is not possible to live for decades, or even years, without ingesting a minimal amount of external fluids. © Many Christians and Muslims observe Lent and Ramadan, times when they restrict their food somewhat. The practice may be based on stories of Christ, mystics, shamans, etc fasting for long periods (30-50 days). I presume that even the saints drank water during their fast, and maybe had a little food at intervals during it. Salama et al ( " Malnutrition, measles, mortality, and the humanitarian response during a famine in Ethiopia " . JAMA. 2001 Aug 1;286(5):563-71) say: CONTEXT: The World Food Programme estimated that 10 million people were at risk of starvation in Ethiopia in 2000 but later reported that a famine had been averted. However, no population-based data on mortality or nutrition existed for Gode district, at the epicenter of the famine in the Somali region of Ethiopia. OBJECTIVES: To estimate mortality rates, determine the major causes of death, and estimate the prevalence of malnutrition among children and adults for the population of Gode district. DESIGN AND SETTING: Two-stage cluster survey conducted from July 27 through August 1, 2000, which included anthropometric measures and 8-month retrospective mortality data collection. PARTICIPANTS: A total of 595 households comprising 4032 people living in Gode district of Ethiopia. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Crude mortality rates and mortality rates for children <5 years, causes of death, weight for height of less than -2 z scores among children aged 0.5-5 years, and body mass index of less than 18.5 kg/m(2) among adults and older persons. RESULTS: Of the 595 households, 346 (58.2%) were displaced from their usual places of residence. From December 1999 through July 2000, a total of 293 deaths occurred in the sample population; 159 (54.3%) deaths were among children <5 years and 72 (24.6%) were among children aged 5-14 years. The crude mortality rate was 3.2/10,000/d (95% confidence interval [CI], 2.4-3.8/10,000/d), which is 3 times the cutoff used to define an emergency. The mortality rate for children <5 years was 6.8/10,000/d (95% CI, 5.4-8.2/10,000/d). Approximately 77% of deaths occurred before major relief interventions began in April/May 2000. Wasting contributed to 72.3% of all deaths among children <5 years. Measles alone or in combination with wasting accounted for 35 (22.0%) of 159 deaths among children <5 years and for 12 (16.7%) of 72 deaths among children aged 5-14 years. The prevalence rate for wasting (weight for height of <- 2 z score) among children aged 0.5- 5 years was 29.1% (95% CI, 24.7%- 33.4%). Using a method to adjust body mass index for body shape, the prevalence of undernutrition (body mass index <18.5 kg/m(2)) among adults aged 18-59 years was 22.7% (95% CI, 17.9%-27.5%). CONCLUSIONS: To prevent unnecessary deaths, the humanitarian response to famine needs to be rapid, well coordinated, and based on sound epidemiological evidence. Public health interventions, such as mass measles vaccination campaigns with coverage extended to children aged 12-15 years should be implemented as the first priority. The prevalence of wasting and undernutrition among children and adults, respectively, should be assessed in all prolonged, severe famines. PMID: 11476658 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Internationally, famine and malnutrition have killed millions of people in recent decades. Malnutrition often correlates with poverty, displacement from their home villages, poor sanitation, suppressed immune competence and death from bacterial, viral, protozoal and parasitic diseases. Many people have lived for 6-8 weeks on hunger-strike, provided they have fluids. According to http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~irelandlist/misc.html Ireland holds the world record for hunger-strike survival and live-burial. Longest Hunger Strike: 94 days, a world record, at Cork Jail from 11 August to 12 November 1920. Nine of the twelve strikers survived: Sean Hennessy, John Crowley, Christopher Upton, Peter Burke, Michael O'Reilly and Thomas Donovan. Live Burial: Tim Hayes, Cobh, Co. Cork remained buried alive for 215 hours in an 8 foot grave at Newbridge, Co. Derry between 4 and 18 July 1967. His coffin was 6 feet 3 inches long, 12 inches wide at head and feet, 21 inches wide at shoulders and 14 inches deep. Yogis, by shutting down metabolism, may last longer, but I cannot believe that a human can survive total starvation for much more than 3 months, not to mention 3 decades, even if he/she can drink a little water each day. For me, cells are like engines; they need oxygen and fuel to function. Unlike engines, if one offs the oxygen and fuel long-term, the cells must die. We know that embryos can remain viable for years if carefully prepared, cooled and stored in liquid-N. Sci-fi has it that the method will allow people to be frozen and resuscitated later. But has any human being been frozen in this way and resuscitated to normal function later? I don't think so, but let me know if you have evidence otherwise .... Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2003 Report Share Posted December 8, 2003 Hi, Phil and all, Regarding breathing, as an fyi, if you remember back to the Viet Nam war, our soldiers (US) were taught by monks living there how to slow down their breathing rate so they could 'pretend' to be dead if necessary instead of captured. I knew of former enlistees who did that and they lived to tell the rest of us about their experiences. To spend years of training for that feat wasn't necessary, it was just a matter of strong self-preservation. Qigong practitioners stress slow breathing with slow, precise movement, and meditation to help the healing process. As a former qigong teacher (not a master, mind you), I've seen wonderful recoveries from people with both serious and non-serious health problems through this practice. With TCM training, I find it much easier helping patients heal with correct dietary changes (I'm not a true believer in fasting, sorry!), herbs, AP, qigong. As far as fasting for days or weeks on end, it's my personal belief that we live in too stressful an environment for that to work well for most people. Also, remember that the old qigong masters and yogis used the higher elevations away from crowded environments to strengthen inner qi, find peace, and whatever else they needed to know, sort of mind of matter experience. Since they weren't exercising physically, they wouldn't have needed much food or water, but surely there was some physical nourishment, don't you think? Cheers, Pam Price PhD LAc Dipl Ac Acupuncture Advantage Clinic 401 Ratcliff Dr SE Ste 130,Salem OR 97302 (503) 365-0848 needledoc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 Not at all, this was only an example of a well documented (and still practiced) energy/matter transformation by meditation. In Taoism, as much as Hinduism, there are many accounts of sages being able to perform incredible deeds of seemingly sorcery abilities or super natural powers. They are all related to the ability of matter/energy transformation by meditation (i.e. the enourmous power of the brain). It is irrelevant to the cycle of food/air/Qi mutations in an ordinary person's physique as we have learned in the T.C.M. physiology theories. According to Taoist scriptures, these mutations CAN happen in a state of total and prolonged meditation, when the channels of energy and Chakras are totally opened and the circulation of Qi is undisturbed. > Are you suggesting then, that from the points of exit, i.e. the > urinary bladder and the large intestine, that the energy is > redirected via the Du mai meridian? > > Attilio > > " Shmuel Halevi Ph.D " <halevis@a...> wrote: > > As I see it, Atillo, there is no such connection, nor need be. If > > you racall, also in Daoist practices there are matter/energy > > commoutations. The most famous is Hui Jing Bu Nao - the mutation > of > > Jing-sperm (yes, the substance) into Qi that is directed to the > > brain via the Du mai in meditation. I believe that highly advanced > > practitioners of meditation can cause this transformations of > > substance into Qi - and sometimes v.v. Thus, feeding on a very > > limited supply of physical nourishment, if at all, and air, these > > ascetics can recycle and transform Qi to its utmost energetic > > components and feed their cells. You should bear in mind that > these > > ascetics are used to be in meditation for days and weeks and > months. > > This way, they don't give away energy thus being able to recycle > > their energy and purify it ever and ever. > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Urvish, > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I have read an autobiography of a yogi, excellent book! > > > > > > > > > > > > What interests me here, from a TCM perspective, is the Zangfu > > energy recycling. Usually, impure food stuff go from the spleen to > > the small intestine, then to the large intestine, faeces is then > > defecated and urine is moved to the bladder to be passed. At both > > these points of exit, a new connection is established that allows > > for total re-absorption. The question is where is the connection > to, > > back to the stomach or spleen? > > > > > > > > > > > > urvish.magdani@t... wrote: > > > This is a very interesting subject, the act of spiritual self > > control and disciplin one that takes mastery of the involuntary > > bodily functions. If you read a book called 'Autobiography of a > > yogi' - Parmahansa Yogananda shares his experiences of some indian > > masters who divulge into the art of yoga and self mastery, whereby > > they are capable of some amazing things ie a man who can levitate, > a > > man who fights tigers with his bare hands etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > In terms of - is it possible these people are > > using up their vital force at double the rate ie Jing, therefore > the > > kindneys would be the main organs to be effected - however it > still > > doesnt explain how these people still live for so long after their > > penance has begun, maybe it just boils down to faith, Jesus did > > always say 'man shall not live by bread and breath alone' > > > > > > regards > > > > > > > > > Urvish Magdani > > > > > > > > > On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 11:24 , > > > > > > Recycling energy > > > > > > A statement from Ahmedabad's Association of Physicians says that > > > despite no water entering his body, urine nonetheless appeared > to > > > form in his bladder - only to be re-absorbed by the bladder > walls. > > > > > > At the end of his confinement, doctors noted no deterioration in > > his > > > condition, other than a slight drop in his weight. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards > > > > > > Attilio > > > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BT Broadband - Save £80 when you order online today. > > Hurry! Offer ends 21st December 2003. The way the internet was > meant > > to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2003 Report Share Posted December 9, 2003 " Shmuel Halevi Ph.D " <halevis@a...> wrote: > > > As I see it, Atillo, there is no such connection, nor need be. >If > > > you racall, also in Daoist practices there are matter/energy > > > commoutations. The most famous is Hui Jing Bu Nao - the mutation > > of > > > Jing-sperm (yes, the substance) into Qi that is directed to the > > > brain via the Du mai in meditation. I believe that highly >advanced > > > practitioners of meditation can cause this transformations of > > > substance into Qi - and sometimes v.v. Thus, feeding on a very > > > limited supply of physical nourishment, if at all, and air, >these > > > ascetics can recycle and transform Qi to its utmost energetic > > > components and feed their cells. You should bear in mind that > > these > > > ascetics are used to be in meditation for days and weeks and > > months. > > > This way, they don't give away energy thus being able to recycle > > > their energy and purify it ever and ever. ______ Salvador Responds: I have to admit tht I do struggle with the above concept. I have been practicing the transformation of Jing for many years. Sometimes more succesfully than others. there is no doubt for me that transformation for longer than 30 days does facilitate higher states of thinking, imagination, feeling, and focus. There is also a cumulative effect. if one paces oneself. Just like one can drop down a few rungs in the ladder of awareness by excessive overuse. However, is this a mystical substance transformation or can it be much simpler than this? I beleive that it is down to the absorption of hormones. Testostenone is the 1st that comes to mind no doubt there are many others. The build up of these hormones in a man leads to more powerful emotional energy. The availability of this energy to the Higher Centers. is dependent on how much 'emotional baggage' they are carrying If the chakras leading to the higher centers are blocked then the man feels a compulsion to ejaculate to releive the pressure. However, my need for food is constant and related to my energy expenditure salvador _______________ Tired of 56k? Get a FREE BT Broadband connection http://www.msn.co.uk/specials/btbroadband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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