Guest guest Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Hi, I have a new patient this week who describes herself as being diagnosed by her G.P. as having "Burning tongue syndrome" . Has anyone any experience of this? There is nothing to see on her tongue apart from it being slightly red at the tip. She describes it as feeling like it has red hot chillies on it. She isn't particularly thirsty. On H.R.T. for a few months but this has not made any difference to her symptoms. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions. Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Val, Has she been checked for a B12 deficiency? chris __________ Dr Chris Gerow Dr TCM Acupncture and Oriental Medicine Centre 1671 Comox Ave Comox B.C. V9M 3M1 250.339.7227 Hi, I have a new patient this week who describes herself as being diagnosed by her G.P. as having " Burning tongue syndrome " . Has anyone any experience of this? There is nothing to see on her tongue apart from it being slightly red at the tip. She describes it as feeling like it has red hot chillies on it. She isn't particularly thirsty. On H.R.T. for a few months but this has not made any difference to her symptoms. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions. Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Val, never heard of burning tongue syndrome .. perhaps one of our boffins might come to the rescue but need more info .. could be quite a few things .. anaemia (e.g b12 def, iron def showing smooth red tongue, folic acid def) .. ulcers ..thrush (white plaque) ..hate to say it tongue carcinoma .. some kind of dental disease ? .. all these have to be ruled out coming back to tcm, red tip you are looking at some kind of He pathology (dah!) but usually (in my experience) the He is usually affected by another element, so look .. maybe the earth element is out of sink as well with xs fire energy affecting absorption .. regards jas p.s drugs can also cause it, e.g. captopril, phenytoin .. why was she on HRT ? Chinese Medicine , valacu@a... wrote: > Hi, I have a new patient this week who describes herself as being diagnosed > by her G.P. as having " Burning tongue syndrome " . Has anyone any experience of > this? There is nothing to see on her tongue apart from it being slightly red > at the tip. She describes it as feeling like it has red hot chillies on it. > She isn't particularly thirsty. On H.R.T. for a few months but this has not made > any difference to her symptoms. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions. > Val Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2003 Report Share Posted December 5, 2003 Hi Val, any chance of a date of birth as well? salvador >Val, > >never heard of burning tongue syndrome .. perhaps one of our boffins >might come to the rescue > >but need more info .. could be quite a few things .. anaemia (e.g b12 >def, iron def showing smooth red tongue, folic acid def) .. >ulcers ..thrush (white plaque) ..hate to say it tongue carcinoma .. >some kind of dental disease ? .. all these have to be ruled out > >coming back to tcm, red tip you are looking at some kind of He >pathology (dah!) but usually (in my experience) the He is usually >affected by another element, so look .. maybe the earth element is >out of sink as well with xs fire energy affecting absorption .. >regards jas > >p.s drugs can also cause it, e.g. captopril, phenytoin .. why was she >on HRT ? > >Chinese Medicine , valacu@a... >wrote: > > Hi, I have a new patient this week who describes herself as being >diagnosed > > by her G.P. as having " Burning tongue syndrome " . Has anyone any >experience of > > this? There is nothing to see on her tongue apart from it being >slightly red > > at the tip. She describes it as feeling like it has red hot >chillies on it. > > She isn't particularly thirsty. On H.R.T. for a few months but this >has not made > > any difference to her symptoms. I would appreciate any advice or >suggestions. > > Val > _______________ Use MSN Messenger to send music and pics to your friends http://www.msn.co.uk/messenger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Hi, Val and all, Burning tongue can be a sign of yin xu. Might check that aspect out and fill us in with more info. Thank you, Pam Price Val, never heard of burning tongue syndrome .. perhaps one of our boffins might come to the rescue but need more info .. could be quite a few things .. anaemia (e.g b12 def, iron def showing smooth red tongue, folic acid def) .. ulcers ..thrush (white plaque) ..hate to say it tongue carcinoma .. some kind of dental disease ? .. all these have to be ruled out coming back to tcm, red tip you are looking at some kind of He pathology (dah!) but usually (in my experience) the He is usually affected by another element, so look .. maybe the earth element is out of sink as well with xs fire energy affecting absorption .. regards jas p.s drugs can also cause it, e.g. captopril, phenytoin .. why was she on HRT ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Valacu:Hi, I have a new patient this week who describes herself as being diagnosed by her G.P. as having " Burning tongue syndrome " . Has anyone any experience of this? There is nothing to see on her tongue apart from it being slightly red at the tip. She describes it as feeling like it has red hot chillies on it. She isn't particularly thirsty. On H.R.T. for a few months but this has not made any difference to her symptoms. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions. > > Placing parameters of a 5 E grid: A. Signs - 1. Tongue - element Fire, yin organ HT 2. Tip red - common finding, some Heat in HT, not significant B. Symptoms - 1. No thirst - this is not a Heat Excess condition 2. Feels red hot chillies - has sensation of Hotness C. Chronology - 1. Months old condition - this is a Depletion, not a Repletion 2. If a Repletion, it is a consequence of a basic Depletion D. Interim arguement - Q. Why a Depletion, condition tends to Heat or Hot? A. Condition is chronic, and therefore has already changed profile. For a Repletion to occur, a Pathogen gsould be present which enters a closed We-Zhong qi circuit of 25 + 25 cycles for a total of 100 markings dropped on the clepsydra. By this time the Pathogen has been assimilated into the qi-Blood and has changed form, and has been compensated by first a Shi flux of qi, and then a Xu ebb. E. Discrepancy - The objective sense of Hot does not keep pace with the relatively non-Hot presentation of the tongue. Not only is there no concomitetnt red discoloration, there is [Val please help here] no Dryness nor fissures; no deviation, retraction problems etc. F. Nan-Ching, Thirty Fourth Difficult Issue [see ref below] - The color of the heart is red; its smell is burnt; its taste is bitter; its sound is talk; its liquid is sweat. The issue goes on to describe LV SP K and the Hot Chilli taste is not mentioned at all. The nearest to that taste is under LU which is described as " acrid " . Q. Can the patient be describing acrid using adjectives like Hot and Chilli? Another thought. By and large chronic conditions of this nature have a complex, bi-phasal etiology on the Ko cycle connection. In which case this could be a HT offending LU condition. If that is so, what she is feeling could be a combination of Bitter [HT] with Acrid [LU]. If this is so there may be the typical median fissue and the indentations in the LU area; because the LU is victim, there has to be pronounced Dryness with absebce of perspiration and aversion to going out into the sun. Could one have more information please? Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Forgot the ref in the earlier post: Nan-Ching Classic translation by Paul U Unschuld Copyright 1986 The Regents of Univ of California; p. 367; line numbered(4). Apologies. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 Odd. Nowhere in Nan-Ching, 34th Difficult Issue, does the taste of Hot and Chilli appear. Is this a manifestation of Heat? Acrid comes very near Hot and Chilli meaning of acrid: 1. sharp or biting to the taste or smell; bitterly pungent; irritating to the eyes, nose, etc.: acrid smoke from burning rubber. 2. extremely or sharply stinging or bitter; exceedingly caustic: acrid remarks. [Courtesy of, and quoting, http://www.infoplease.com/ipd/A0306006.html] Sharp, biting, pungent, irritating, stinging, exceedingly caustic. Boy, this reads like Hot and Chilli. In which case this is a LU based condition with typical taste. Val, how does this sound? Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 The question I would ask is does anything help it? For example, cold water, particular flavors? If not I could definetly see it as a neurological " trick " best treated with acupuncture around the cranial nerves, starting with St. 5, 6 and then distal with 44. If no effect try the ren 23, Sj 17, Du 17 etc... I've seen this before but didn't have an opportunity to follow through with their treatment. odug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2003 Report Share Posted December 6, 2003 [: The question I would ask is does anything help it? For example, cold water, particular flavors? If not I could definetly see it as a neurological " trick " best treated with acupuncture around the cranial nerves, starting with St. 5, 6 and then distal with 44. If no effect try the ren 23, Sj 17, Du 17 etc...] Best to treat the design of illness. It is there, it can be found. Sometimes symptomatic Rxmay help in the interim but harm in the long run. Dr. Holmes Keikobad MB BS DPH Ret. DIP AC NCCAOM LIC AC CO & AZ www.acu-free.com - home based recertification for acupuncturists and health professionals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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