CM?

November 11, 2003

Phil wrote:

<<<I had no idea that so much of the TCM tradition was lost in the political upheavals in the past 60 years, nor that current Chinese goals to become more familiar with western materialistic society are still wreaking havoc on TCM and meaningful research in TCM.>>>

Hi Phil,

Thankfully, there is still a great deal of material to work from,

both from Chinese antiquity (in writings), and within many areas

both in and out of China, where the older ways of TCM are still

being used, so all is far from lost.

Compare this to Celtic Studies, where so much of Celtic history

and Druidic tradition has been lost due to the oral tradition of

the Iron age, that was altered or destroyed through both later

Romanization and the introduction of Christianity.

When St. Patrick is credited for " running the snakes out of

Ireland, "

many people don't realize that its a metaphor for killing the Druids

and destroying the Celtic polytheistic (pagan) tradition (there never

were snakes in Ireland, but the Druids were - and still are- known

as

adders). As ancient Celtic culture was primarily an oral tradition,

very little of the Druids' practices or beliefs were written down,

and

in Ireland where there were Druidic and Celtic writings, ALL texts

found were destroyed by St. Patrick's people. We are left mostly to

rely on accounts from often biased Classical (non-celtic) writers,

archaeological findings and Christianized writings (or those stemming

from post-Christianization), where we're left to postulate and use the

Gaelic languages to try and find valid continuing tradition or restore

some of what has been lost.

The state of Chinese beliefs, traditions and practices, including TCM

aren't nearly so problematic. However, you bring up an excellent

point:

<<<If China loses its TCM roots, how can those of us in the

West (especially those of us who cannot read Chinese) ever hope to understand/use those roots?>>>

You do what those of us interested in serious Celtic studies

do,

you learn the language, which opens you up to the possibilities of

reading many texts that can't be fully explained in any other

language by someone else, no matter how good their translation.

Then you seek out texts that aren't within the common

mainstream.

This is one of the reasons I'm learning Chinese, just as it is one

of

the reasons I started learning Scottish Gaelic (Gaidhlig) a few

years

ago... to read the primary materials in their own native language.

Even in the best of translations, some things are lost in the

process.

While I can read and write a reasonable bit in Gaidhlig, I am by no

means proficient in speaking the language, as there are so few who

teach it around, and it is a very difficult language to pronounce

correctly without someone to guide you. Thankfully, this is far

from

the case with Chinese, as it is spoken by more people than speak all

Western languages combined. Access isn't restrictive by any

means.

Chinese is a challenging, abet rewarding, language to learn. It

takes

time, but, in my own opinion, practicing traditions from any culture

where you don't speak the language becomes very problematic, as

there is so much that simply cannot be fully absorbed without it.

TCM, in and of itself, takes a good deal of time to learn, and its

an ongoing process, so going a little further and learning the language

as well can easily become part of that learning process.

Should anyone on the list be considering learning Chinese, the

Integrated Chinese program by Tao-chung Yao and Yuehua Liu is

fantastic. I also have the " Practical Chinese Reader "

set, but

the IC set is much more logical in sequence, and there are a great

deal of supporting materials available on-line (at no charge), by

many of the Universities. Its a very good way to learn, even on

your own!

Zàijiàn (see you again),

Andrea

November 11, 2003

> Should anyone on the list be considering learning Chinese, the Integrated Chinese program by Tao-chung Yao and Yuehua Liu is fantastic. I also have the "Practical Chinese Reader" set,

Yes. I will be starting a course in January at the local AE college. In the meantime any help would be of great value. Links or email addresses to the above references would be helpful.

Thanks,

Sammy.

Ai An Meng [aianmeng]11 November 2003 17:20Chinese Medicine Subject: Re: CM?Phil wrote:

<<<I had no idea that so much of the TCM tradition was lost in the political upheavals in the past 60 years, nor that current Chinese goals to become more familiar with western materialistic society are still wreaking havoc on TCM and meaningful research in TCM.>>>Hi Phil,Thankfully, there is still a great deal of material to work from,both from Chinese antiquity (in writings), and within many areas both in and out of China, where the older ways of TCM are stillbeing used, so all is far from lost.Compare this to Celtic Studies, where so much of Celtic historyand Druidic tradition has been lost due to the oral tradition ofthe Iron age, that was altered or destroyed through both later Romanization and the introduction of Christianity. When St. Patrick is credited for "running the snakes out of Ireland,"many people don't realize that its a metaphor for killing the Druids and destroying the Celtic polytheistic (pagan) tradition (there never were snakes in Ireland, but the Druids were - and still are- known asadders). As ancient Celtic culture was primarily an oral tradition, very little of the Druids' practices or beliefs were written down, andin Ireland where there were Druidic and Celtic writings, ALL textsfound were destroyed by St. Patrick's people. We are left mostly to rely on accounts from often biased Classical (non-celtic) writers, archaeological findings and Christianized writings (or those stemming from post-Christianization), where we're left to postulate and use the Gaelic languages to try and find valid continuing tradition or restore some of what has been lost.The state of Chinese beliefs, traditions and practices, including TCM aren't nearly so problematic. However, you bring up an excellent point:

<<<If China loses its TCM roots, how can those of us in the West (especially those of us who cannot read Chinese) ever hope to understand/use those roots?>>>You do what those of us interested in serious Celtic studies do,you learn the language, which opens you up to the possibilities ofreading many texts that can't be fully explained in any other language by someone else, no matter how good their translation.Then you seek out texts that aren't within the common mainstream.This is one of the reasons I'm learning Chinese, just as it is one ofthe reasons I started learning Scottish Gaelic (Gaidhlig) a few yearsago... to read the primary materials in their own native language. Even in the best of translations, some things are lost in the process.While I can read and write a reasonable bit in Gaidhlig, I am by nomeans proficient in speaking the language, as there are so few whoteach it around, and it is a very difficult language to pronounce correctly without someone to guide you. Thankfully, this is far fromthe case with Chinese, as it is spoken by more people than speak allWestern languages combined. Access isn't restrictive by any means.Chinese is a challenging, abet rewarding, language to learn. It takestime, but, in my own opinion, practicing traditions from any culturewhere you don't speak the language becomes very problematic, asthere is so much that simply cannot be fully absorbed without it. TCM, in and of itself, takes a good deal of time to learn, and itsan ongoing process, so going a little further and learning the language as well can easily become part of that learning process. Should anyone on the list be considering learning Chinese, the Integrated Chinese program by Tao-chung Yao and Yuehua Liu is fantastic. I also have the "Practical Chinese Reader" set, butthe IC set is much more logical in sequence, and there are a greatdeal of supporting materials available on-line (at no charge), bymany of the Universities. Its a very good way to learn, even on your own!Zàijiàn (see you again),AndreaMembership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days.