Guest guest Posted October 27, 2003 Report Share Posted October 27, 2003 I know that some people on the list have already pointed out the difference between CM and TCM, but I don't remember what made them distinct and different from each other. Please help me with this distinction. ______ Please be nice to me in responding to the following voiced thoughts. I am not taking any position here, just thinking loudly. Those of you that think that I should shut up are probably right. Sorry... just have to give voice to this: Is what we have in the west today something that more truly should be called something else? Like WCM, West Modified or SCM, Systemological ..... or will we exclude the word Chinese one day when we have honored the chinese sufficiently ..and recognize what we are creating as humas above nationalities. (POM, Process Oriented Medicin or IM, Integrated Medicine).... Why do we call it TCM? Is it a good market name? Holger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Chinese Medicine , Holger Wendt <holger.wendt@t...> wrote: > I know that some people on the list have already pointed out the difference > between CM and TCM, but I don't remember what made them distinct and > different from each other. > > Please help me with this distinction. > ______ " Inventing new words is the indubitable symptom of lacking in ideas " (Emil Cioran). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 I'm studying TCM but it seems to be more like PRC CM than TCM. Syndrome differentiation i believe, only came about in the last 50 years as leaders tried to modernise CM. Attilio " teo_lau " <teo_lau> wrote: > Chinese Medicine , Holger Wendt > <holger.wendt@t...> wrote: > > I know that some people on the list have already pointed out the > difference > > between CM and TCM, but I don't remember what made them distinct > and > > different from each other. > > > > Please help me with this distinction. > > ______ > > " Inventing new words is the indubitable symptom of lacking in > ideas " (Emil Cioran). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Hi, Medicine in China has been integrated for over 50 years now. may refer to this integratgted medicine, it sure is unique enough. TCM may refer the version not involve integrated Western Medicine part. That's purely my understanding. Thanks. Qin Meng --- teo_lau <teo_lau wrote: > Chinese Medicine , > Holger Wendt > <holger.wendt@t...> wrote: > > I know that some people on the list have already > pointed out the > difference > > between CM and TCM, but I don't remember what made > them distinct > and > > different from each other. > > > > Please help me with this distinction. > > ______ > > " Inventing new words is the indubitable symptom of > lacking in > ideas " (Emil Cioran). > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 What is " PRC " ? DAVID --- <attiliodalberto wrote: > I'm studying TCM but it seems to be more like PRC CM > than TCM. > Syndrome differentiation i believe, only came about > in the last 50 > years as leaders tried to modernise CM. > > Attilio > > " teo_lau " <teo_lau> wrote: > > --- In > Chinese Medicine , Holger > Wendt > > <holger.wendt@t...> wrote: > > > I know that some people on the list have already > pointed out the > > difference > > > between CM and TCM, but I don't remember what > made them distinct > > and > > > different from each other. > > > > > > Please help me with this distinction. > > > ______ > > > > " Inventing new words is the indubitable symptom of > lacking in > > ideas " (Emil Cioran). > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 PRC: People's Republic of China. Sorry... Attilio David Razo <ozar14> wrote: > What is " PRC " ? > DAVID > --- <attiliodalberto> > wrote: > > I'm studying TCM but it seems to be more like PRC CM > > than TCM. > > Syndrome differentiation i believe, only came about > > in the last 50 > > years as leaders tried to modernise CM. > > > > Attilio > > > > " teo_lau " <teo_lau> wrote: > > > --- In > > Chinese Medicine , Holger > > Wendt > > > <holger.wendt@t...> wrote: > > > > I know that some people on the list have already > > pointed out the > > > difference > > > > between CM and TCM, but I don't remember what > > made them distinct > > > and > > > > different from each other. > > > > > > > > Please help me with this distinction. > > > > ______ > > > > > > " Inventing new words is the indubitable symptom of > > lacking in > > > ideas " (Emil Cioran). > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 I don't know if this is true or not but i have been told that TCM in the USA is not the same TCM in china. I was told that the PRC did not want to make available all of CM secrets. For example, I have been told that there are spirital points that only a few people know in china. I was also told that all the old OMD in china understand the true TCM and was force by PRC to keep silence. The current (young) OMD's in china are basically studing the edited version of TCM. Would that be what you are referring to? Do you know anything about this? David --- <attiliodalberto wrote: > PRC: People's Republic of China. Sorry... > > Attilio > > David Razo <ozar14> wrote: > > What is " PRC " ? > > DAVID > > --- <attiliodalberto> > > wrote: > > > I'm studying TCM but it seems to be more like > PRC CM > > > than TCM. > > > Syndrome differentiation i believe, only came > about > > > in the last 50 > > > years as leaders tried to modernise CM. > > > > > > Attilio > > > > > > " teo_lau " <teo_lau> wrote: > > > > --- In > > > Chinese Medicine , > Holger > > > Wendt > > > > <holger.wendt@t...> wrote: > > > > > I know that some people on the list have > already > > > pointed out the > > > > difference > > > > > between CM and TCM, but I don't remember > what > > > made them distinct > > > > and > > > > > different from each other. > > > > > > > > > > Please help me with this distinction. > > > > > ______ > > > > > > > > " Inventing new words is the indubitable > symptom of > > > lacking in > > > > ideas " (Emil Cioran). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail > AddressGuard > > http://antispam./whatsnewfree > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 From my recent personal experience this spounds true. I've been taught by people that didn't have a deep understanding of CM, espcially the spiritual aspect. but speaking to other CM doctors, they do have, a great number of special techniques related to the spirit, i.e. how to protect yourself from the patient's Qi when giving acupuncture. Shame someone doesn't write a book on this very important topic. Attilio David Razo <ozar14> wrote: > I don't know if this is true or not but i have been > told that TCM in the USA is not the same TCM in china. > I was told that the PRC did not want to make > available all of CM secrets. For example, I have been > told that there are spirital points that only a few > people know in china. > > I was also told that all the old OMD in china > understand the true TCM and was force by PRC to keep > silence. The current (young) OMD's in china are > basically studing the edited version of TCM. > > Would that be what you are referring to? Do you know > anything about this? > > David > --- <attiliodalberto> > wrote: > > PRC: People's Republic of China. Sorry... > > > > Attilio > > > > David Razo <ozar14> wrote: > > > What is " PRC " ? > > > DAVID > > > --- <attiliodalberto> > > > wrote: > > > > I'm studying TCM but it seems to be more like > > PRC CM > > > > than TCM. > > > > Syndrome differentiation i believe, only came > > about > > > > in the last 50 > > > > years as leaders tried to modernise CM. > > > > > > > > Attilio > > > > > > > > " teo_lau " <teo_lau> wrote: > > > > > --- In > > > > Chinese Medicine , > > Holger > > > > Wendt > > > > > <holger.wendt@t...> wrote: > > > > > > I know that some people on the list have > > already > > > > pointed out the > > > > > difference > > > > > > between CM and TCM, but I don't remember > > what > > > > made them distinct > > > > > and > > > > > > different from each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please help me with this distinction. > > > > > > ______ > > > > > > > > > > " Inventing new words is the indubitable > > symptom of > > > > lacking in > > > > > ideas " (Emil Cioran). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail > > AddressGuard > > > http://antispam./whatsnewfree > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 My understanding is that syn. diff. is the modernize CM. david --- <attiliodalberto wrote: > I've just had an after-thought. If CM didn't have > syndrome > differentiation as this was added by those wishing > to modernise CM, > then is 'real' CM more based upon 5-element theory > as practiced today? > > Attilio > > " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > > PRC: People's Republic of China. Sorry... > > > > Attilio > > > > David Razo <ozar14> wrote: > > > What is " PRC " ? > > > DAVID > > > --- <attiliodalberto> > > > wrote: > > > > I'm studying TCM but it seems to be more like > PRC CM > > > > than TCM. > > > > Syndrome differentiation i believe, only came > about > > > > in the last 50 > > > > years as leaders tried to modernise CM. > > > > > > > > Attilio > > > > > > > > " teo_lau " <teo_lau> wrote: > > > > > --- In > > > > Chinese Medicine , > Holger > > > > Wendt > > > > > <holger.wendt@t...> wrote: > > > > > > I know that some people on the list have > already > > > > pointed out the > > > > > difference > > > > > > between CM and TCM, but I don't remember > what > > > > made them distinct > > > > > and > > > > > > different from each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > Please help me with this distinction. > > > > > > ______ > > > > > > > > > > " Inventing new words is the indubitable > symptom of > > > > lacking in > > > > > ideas " (Emil Cioran). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail > AddressGuard > > > http://antispam./whatsnewfree > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 I agree, but i don't think CM fits this structure completely. What do others think about syndrome differentiation? Attilio David Razo <ozar14> wrote: > My understanding is that syn. diff. is the modernize > CM. > david > --- <attiliodalberto> > wrote: > > I've just had an after-thought. If CM didn't have > > syndrome > > differentiation as this was added by those wishing > > to modernise CM, > > then is 'real' CM more based upon 5-element theory > > as practiced today? > > > > Attilio > > > > " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > > > PRC: People's Republic of China. Sorry... > > > > > > Attilio > > > > > > David Razo <ozar14> wrote: > > > > What is " PRC " ? > > > > DAVID > > > > --- <attiliodalberto> > > > > wrote: > > > > > I'm studying TCM but it seems to be more like > > PRC CM > > > > > than TCM. > > > > > Syndrome differentiation i believe, only came > > about > > > > > in the last 50 > > > > > years as leaders tried to modernise CM. > > > > > > > > > > Attilio > > > > > > > > > > " teo_lau " <teo_lau> wrote: > > > > > > --- In > > > > > Chinese Medicine , > > Holger > > > > > Wendt > > > > > > <holger.wendt@t...> wrote: > > > > > > > I know that some people on the list have > > already > > > > > pointed out the > > > > > > difference > > > > > > > between CM and TCM, but I don't remember > > what > > > > > made them distinct > > > > > > and > > > > > > > different from each other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please help me with this distinction. > > > > > > > ______ > > > > > > > > > > > > " Inventing new words is the indubitable > > symptom of > > > > > lacking in > > > > > > ideas " (Emil Cioran). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail > > AddressGuard > > > > http://antispam./whatsnewfree > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard > http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2003 Report Share Posted November 4, 2003 Chinese Medicine , David Razo <ozar14> wrote: > I don't know if this is true or not but i have been > told that TCM in the USA is not the same TCM in china. > I was told that the PRC did not want to make > available all of CM secrets. For example, I have been > told that there are spirital points that only a few > people know in china. > > I was also told that all the old OMD in china > understand the true TCM and was force by PRC to keep > silence. The current (young) OMD's in china are > basically studing the edited version of TCM. > > Would that be what you are referring to? Do you know > anything about this? David: It's true that many lineages kept their knowledge to a limited group. For example, my own pulse diagnosis system, the Korean Dong Han medical lineage, has not been written down until now, as I am the one who chose to do it. But you can already start to find books and notes on many of these topics you ask about. While much of it may already be familiar to you, it oftens requires mature qi gong skills to implement those ideas. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 See Heiner Fruehauf's article CHINESE MEDICINE IN CRISIS SCIENCE, POLITICS, AND THE MAKING OF " TCM " , published in The Journal of , at http://www.jcm.co.uk/SampleArticles/tcmcrisis.phtml I think you'll find there the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Jim, I imagine that there is an unwritten code that states--anyone outside the lineage should know their secrets. If you began to put this information on paper, have you broken the code? David --- James Ramholz <jramholz wrote: > Chinese Medicine , > David Razo > <ozar14> wrote: > > I don't know if this is true or not but i have > been > > told that TCM in the USA is not the same TCM in > china. > > I was told that the PRC did not want to make > > available all of CM secrets. For example, I have > been > > told that there are spirital points that only a > few > > people know in china. > > > > I was also told that all the old OMD in china > > understand the true TCM and was force by PRC to > keep > > silence. The current (young) OMD's in china are > > basically studing the edited version of TCM. > > > > Would that be what you are referring to? Do you > know > > anything about this? > > > > > David: > > It's true that many lineages kept their knowledge to > a limited > group. For example, my own pulse diagnosis system, > the Korean Dong > Han medical lineage, has not been written down until > now, as I am > the one who chose to do it. But you can already > start to find books > and notes on many of these topics you ask about. > While much of it > may already be familiar to you, it oftens requires > mature qi gong > skills to implement those ideas. > > > Jim Ramholz > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Protect your identity with Mail AddressGuard http://antispam./whatsnewfree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 6, 2003 Report Share Posted November 6, 2003 Chinese Medicine , David wrote: > Jim, I imagine that there is an unwritten code that > states--anyone outside the lineage should know their > secrets. If you began to put this information on > paper, have you broken the code? >>> David: There is an agreement that certain pulse practices be withheld, and I haven't written about them or discussed them. But there is so much information that was earlier considered private that I've found in the public domain--particularly the Nan Jing and Mai Jing. Yet, like the story of the purloined letter, some things are hidden in plain sight and require mature skills to see or really understand them. Many important ideas--from our system's point of view--are only mentioned in the classics, sometimes just in the commentaries, that can be developed and become major practices. And knowledge has a way of " defending " itself. You can't really give it away. Most people will simply not put in the time or energy to learn how to do them. They would rather do something easy and comfortable. With the wealth of information available in translation today, the foundation is there for pretty much any practice you want to explore. But, like learning a musical instrument, that practice must be recreated in each person. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hi Teo > See Heiner Fruehauf's article CM IN CRISIS SCIENCE, > POLITICS, AND THE MAKING OF " TCM " , published in The Journal of > , at > http://www.jcm.co.uk/SampleArticles/tcmcrisis.phtml > I think you'll find there the answer. That was a fine artticle, and most disturbing. I had no idea that so much of the TCM tradition was lost in the political upheavals in the past 60 years, nor that current Chinese goals to become more familiar with western materialistic society are still wreaking havoc on TCM and meaningful research in TCM. I have emailed Heiner Fruehauf at the address given in the JCM to invite him to join this List to discuss his views. If China loses its TCM roots, how can those of us in the West (especially those of us who cannot read Chinese) ever hope to understand/use those roots? Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 --- < > I had no idea that so much of the TCM tradition was > lost in the > political upheavals in the past 60 years, nor that > current Chinese > goals to become more familiar with western > materialistic society > are still wreaking havoc on TCM and meaningful > research in TCM. Hi Phil: I find myself surprised that you didn't know about the major losses experienced by CM. I'm realising that we do not have enough education on the subject, so I am glad that you referred us to the article in question. Just today I was mentioning to a friend of mine how many TCM doctors seem to /use/ TCM, since it is very effective, but still somehow entirely capitulate to western medicine as if they regarded it to be the 'real' medicine. To me what it comes down to is a broken spirit (not of CM- rather, of some individuals). That gets me mad, you know? But then I remember about the dao and I don't worry so much and feel compelled to study harder and try to get at the roots...strip away the reformations and such... Anyway, thansk for the article... Hugo > > I have emailed Heiner Fruehauf at the address given > in the JCM to > invite him to join this List to discuss his views. > > If China loses its TCM roots, how can those of us in > the West > (especially those of us who cannot read Chinese) > ever hope to > understand/use those roots? > > > Best regards, > > Email: < > > WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., > Dublin 4, Ireland > Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: > 0] > > HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland > Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: > 0] > WWW : > http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm > ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hugo, I feel very much as you do. Emmanuel Segmen - Hugo Ramiro Chinese Medicine Monday, November 10, 2003 8:34 PM Re: CM ? --- I had no idea that so much of the TCM tradition was> lost in the > political upheavals in the past 60 years, nor that> current Chinese > goals to become more familiar with western> materialistic society > are still wreaking havoc on TCM and meaningful> research in TCM.Hi Phil: I find myself surprised that you didn't knowabout the major losses experienced by CM. I'mrealising that we do not have enough education on thesubject, so I am glad that you referred us to thearticle in question.Just today I was mentioning to a friend of mine howmany TCM doctors seem to /use/ TCM, since it is veryeffective, but still somehow entirely capitulate towestern medicine as if they regarded it to be the'real' medicine. To me what it comes down to is abroken spirit (not of CM- rather, of someindividuals).That gets me mad, you know? But then I remember aboutthe dao and I don't worry so much and feel compelledto study harder and try to get at the roots...stripaway the reformations and such...Anyway, thansk for the article...Hugo> > I have emailed Heiner Fruehauf at the address given> in the JCM to > invite him to join this List to discuss his views.> > If China loses its TCM roots, how can those of us in> the West > (especially those of us who cannot read Chinese)> ever hope to > understand/use those roots?> > > Best regards,> > Email: <> > WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave.,> Dublin 4, Ireland> Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic:> 0]> > HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland> Tel : 353-; [in the Republic:> 0]> WWW :> http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm> ______________________Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.ukMembership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. To send an email to<Chinese Medicine- > from the email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but will still recieve messages for a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 I'm not sure that this upheaval and change is not itself the Chinese Tradition. doug > Hugo, > > I feel very much as you do. > > Emmanuel Segmen > - > Hugo Ramiro > Chinese Medicine > Monday, November 10, 2003 8:34 PM > Re: CM ? > > > --- <@e...> > > I had no idea that so much of the TCM tradition was > > lost in the > > political upheavals in the past 60 years, nor that > > current Chinese > > goals to become more familiar with western > > materialistic society > > are still wreaking havoc on TCM and meaningful > > research in TCM. > > Hi Phil: I find myself surprised that you didn't know > about the major losses experienced by CM. I'm > realising that we do not have enough education on the > subject, so I am glad that you referred us to the > article in question. > Just today I was mentioning to a friend of mine how > many TCM doctors seem to /use/ TCM, since it is very > effective, but still somehow entirely capitulate to > western medicine as if they regarded it to be the > 'real' medicine. To me what it comes down to is a > broken spirit (not of CM- rather, of some > individuals). > That gets me mad, you know? But then I remember about > the dao and I don't worry so much and feel compelled > to study harder and try to get at the roots...strip > away the reformations and such... > Anyway, thansk for the article... > Hugo > > > > > > > I have emailed Heiner Fruehauf at the address given > > in the JCM to > > invite him to join this List to discuss his views. > > > > If China loses its TCM roots, how can those of us in > > the West > > (especially those of us who cannot read Chinese) > > ever hope to > > understand/use those roots? > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Email: <@e...> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 I read the article again and feel certainly that things could be better in China.But it's not quite what I saw in my stays there. I sat with doctors for hours taking pulses, looking at tongues of hundreds of patients. Each of these patients was given a formula based on not Western terms. Yes, they were given a WM category but the treatment was always TCM. When I struggled with the WM categories, a doctor finally said, " don't worry about that, we treat it the same no matter what the Western term. " Sometimes the doctor would explain that a particular herb was found by Western research to have a Western use but the prescriptions remained the same. doug > I'm not sure that this upheaval and change is not itself the Chinese Tradition. > doug > > > > Hugo, > > > > I feel very much as you do. > > > > Emmanuel Segmen > > - > > Hugo Ramiro > > Chinese Medicine > > Monday, November 10, 2003 8:34 PM > > Re: CM ? > > > > > > --- <@e...> > > > I had no idea that so much of the TCM tradition was > > > lost in the > > > political upheavals in the past 60 years, nor that > > > current Chinese > > > goals to become more familiar with western > > > materialistic society > > > are still wreaking havoc on TCM and meaningful > > > research in TCM. > > > > Hi Phil: I find myself surprised that you didn't know > > about the major losses experienced by CM. I'm > > realising that we do not have enough education on the > > subject, so I am glad that you referred us to the > > article in question. > > Just today I was mentioning to a friend of mine how > > many TCM doctors seem to /use/ TCM, since it is very > > effective, but still somehow entirely capitulate to > > western medicine as if they regarded it to be the > > 'real' medicine. To me what it comes down to is a > > broken spirit (not of CM- rather, of some > > individuals). > > That gets me mad, you know? But then I remember about > > the dao and I don't worry so much and feel compelled > > to study harder and try to get at the roots...strip > > away the reformations and such... > > Anyway, thansk for the article... > > Hugo > > > > > > > > > > > > I have emailed Heiner Fruehauf at the address given > > > in the JCM to > > > invite him to join this List to discuss his views. > > > > > > If China loses its TCM roots, how can those of us in > > > the West > > > (especially those of us who cannot read Chinese) > > > ever hope to > > > understand/use those roots? > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Email: <@e...> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 I agree that modern TCM was made politically correct in the last 60 years; many french doctors working in China have often raised this issue. The ancient tradition of acupuncture and herbal medicine still survive in China with some Chinese doctor, it is also very much alive in other neighboring countries. All is not lost Regards, PJ On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 09:39 am, wrote: > I'm not sure that this upheaval and change is not itself the Chinese > Tradition. > doug > > > > Hugo, > > > > I feel very much as you do. > > > > Emmanuel Segmen > > - > > Hugo Ramiro > > Chinese Medicine > > Monday, November 10, 2003 8:34 PM > > Re: CM ? > > > > > > --- <@e...> > > > I had no idea that so much of the TCM tradition was > > > lost in the > > > political upheavals in the past 60 years, nor that > > > current Chinese > > > goals to become more familiar with western > > > materialistic society > > > are still wreaking havoc on TCM and meaningful > > > research in TCM. > > > > Hi Phil: I find myself surprised that you didn't know > > about the major losses experienced by CM. I'm > > realising that we do not have enough education on the > > subject, so I am glad that you referred us to the > > article in question. > > Just today I was mentioning to a friend of mine how > > many TCM doctors seem to /use/ TCM, since it is very > > effective, but still somehow entirely capitulate to > > western medicine as if they regarded it to be the > > 'real' medicine. To me what it comes down to is a > > broken spirit (not of CM- rather, of some > > individuals). > > That gets me mad, you know? But then I remember about > > the dao and I don't worry so much and feel compelled > > to study harder and try to get at the roots...strip > > away the reformations and such... > > Anyway, thansk for the article... > > Hugo > > > > > > > > > > > > I have emailed Heiner Fruehauf at the address given > > > in the JCM to > > > invite him to join this List to discuss his views. > > > > > > If China loses its TCM roots, how can those of us in > > > the West > > > (especially those of us who cannot read Chinese) > > > ever hope to > > > understand/use those roots? > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > Email: <@e...> > > > <image.tiff> > > > Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, swear, > religious, spam messages,flame another member or swear. > > To change your email settings, i.e. individually, daily digest or > none, visit the groups’ homepage: > Chinese Medicine/ click > ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly. > > To send an email to > <Chinese Medicine- > from the > email account you joined with. You will be removed automatically but > will still recieve messages for a few days. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 hi phil that is why a few of the masters such as dr.wu, boping has been spreading the ancient knowledge, in english by clinical experience, to a number of his graduate doctor/apprentices the past twenty or so years such as volker scheid, john tindall and others. wu lao shi, strongly suggests that english speaking TCM doctors learn modern chinese and then ancient chinese so they/we are not at the mercy of poorly and/or incompletely translated writings. translations are best accomplished by practitioners. it has been said in words and by conditions - if one looks at china - that as far as the majority of mainstream practices go - it has already been lost there. cm has been co-opted by wm. richard In a message dated 11/11/2003 4:12:20 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes: If China loses its TCM roots, how can those of us in the West (especially those of us who cannot read Chinese) ever hope to understand/use those roots?Best regards, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 Hi All, & Hi Hugo > Hi Phil: I find myself surprised that you didn't know about the > major losses experienced by CM. I'm realising that we do not have > enough education on the subject, so I am glad that you referred us > to the article in question. Hugo, the article shocked and saddened me. I knew that much was lost during the Chairman Mao period , but not HOW much. What made me very sad was the statement that many doctors who " had the real roots " , including personal copies of rare TCM books destroyed them out of fear. Best regards, Email: < WORK : Teagasc Research Management, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland Mobile: 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 In a message dated 11/11/2003 09:12:34 GMT Standard Time, writes: http://www.jcm.co.uk/SampleArticles/tcmcrisis.phtml Hi Phil I agree, Chinese medicine is under crisis which is described as the paper, especially in China. However, there is a new paradise of , which is in the UK. If you can go to UK shop you will find they do not use western way to practice and they will follow principle. In the UK , we do not like people call traditional chinese medicine but we prefer to call just as chinese medicine. as i have been seriously involved in the chinese medicine industry in the UK, i would like to share my experience with others in this group. john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 John And as it appears that..... what more correctly should be referred to as Classical Chinese medicine or as you state...simply....Chinese medicine is surving very well OUTSIDE of China where and when..... someday it will return to China to teach them the essence of this art/science. Richard Hi PhilI agree, Chinese medicine is under crisis which is described as the paper, especially in China. However, there is a new paradise of , which is in the UK. If you can go to UK shop you will find they do not use western way to practice and they will follow principle. In the UK , we do not like people call traditional chinese medicine but we prefer to call just as chinese medicine.as i have been seriously involved in the chinese medicine industry in the UK, i would like to share my experience with others in this group.john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2003 Report Share Posted November 11, 2003 John wrote: <<<as i have been seriously involved in the chinese medicine industry in the UK, i would like to share my experience with others in this group.>>> John, please do! The more resources out there for us to learn from, the better! Zàijiàn, Andrea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.