Fatty Liver/horses.... was RE: Steroid-sensitive cancers and the body's Detox Systems

[Guest guest]

Thank you for that search Phil, it's a great database you have!

 

>>>There are virtually no fat stores in the liver of newborn foals

(Stammer et al, 1991). Postnatal fat accumulation in equine liver is

associated with dietary and pathological factors. Ocana-Quero et al

(1993) and Carroll et al (1987) suggest that enterotoxaemia

associated with excessive carbohydrate intake caused liver

damage, including fatty degeneration/fatty liver, in horses.

 

That IS interesting. In the field many of us find that herbal liver tonics

help enormously, both in prevention and treatment of laminitis, as so many

holistic vets, but most mainstream vets totally poo-poo the idea of liver

function being relevant, or worth supporting. I got a massive response to an

ayurvedic liver tonic in my horse, and consequently started a huge row with

a Cushings list vet over 'no evidence of liver problems in these

cases........'

 

>>>A genetic component is involved; the Morgan breed appears more

predisposed metabolically than Thoroughbreds to laminitis and

associated fatty liver (Janson, 1980).

 

Yes - Morgans win our polls of cushings cases hands down.

 

>>>>Stress and undernutrition/starvation can mobilise fat from storage

depots, causing hyperlipaemia and increased fatty acid levels in

blood. This can cause fatty liver also.

 

Yes I knew about hyperlipaemia in ponies, and have heard of it in one or two

of these horses. But if these horses have a metabolism like a pony, it

stands to reason they may be somewhat susceptable too. Many have polyphagia,

and I am loathe to 'starve' them - if they are to loose weight it ought to

be through exercise IMO.

 

>>>>>>. The higher oxidative ability together with

the depressed rate of de novo fatty acid synthesis in liver may

contribute to the dietary fat-induced decrease in plasma TAG

concentrations in equines.

 

Would this be of concern?

 

......... Morgans

showed less ability to clear and metabolise glucose in response to

glucose, insulin and adrenaline administration, and the amount of

insulin secreted was less than in the Thoroughbred,

 

That I find very surprising - my impression was they topped the insulin

resistance poll too, but maybe it is only Cushings. I wonder if the liver is

more at the root of this that we realise?

 

>>>>>more prone to hypoglycaemic shock. Increased mobilisation and

clearance of NEFAs during adrenaline administration and insulin

tolerance tests were seen in Morgans but not in Thoroughbreds.

 

What are NEFA's and what is the ramification of 'increased clearance' - from

where to what??

 

>>>Tests showed Morgans to tend towards hypothyroidism, and to

have some degree of hepatic impairment.

 

Hypothyroidism was the only relevant cause of 'hepatic impairment' I could

find - but they say primary hypothyroidism is still undocumented in horses.

It occurs as a result of Cushings, and yet in the US over 1 million dollars

worth of thyroid supplements are sold for horse - in the UK none. I had to

get an STA to import thyroxine to treat my horse's consistently low FT4,

equine medication is not even available in the UK! There was an interesting

response there too..

 

>>>>>> It was concluded that the

Morgan appears more predisposed metabolically than the

Thoroughbred to laminitis and associated fatty liver.

 

Fascinating! I have really struggled to find supporting evidence for liver

involvement in these metabolic derangements, and it seems to be a chicken

and egg situation with hypothyroidism anyway.

 

I did do a search/study a while ago when I first started the study group ( I

DO wish I could persuade you to join us Phil!!) - I'll post it for your

interest, maybe you might have some comment.

 

My horse was diagnosed with liver qi stagnation, and responded to the

ayurvedic liver supplement - but those are two very different definitions of

'liver', and in WM terms liver enzymes are always totally normal.

 

 

>>>>>Ocana-Quero-JM; Gomez-Villamandos-RJ; Rosa-Morillas-JC;

Valera-Cordoba-M; Munoz-Carmona-JA; Ortega-Mariscal-MA;

Santisteban-Valenzuela-JM; Gomez-Villamandos-JC; Avila-Jurado-I

| Consequences of an imbalanced diet for horses. Preliminary

study. | Archivos-de-Zootecnia. 1993, 42: 156, 81-84; 6 ref. LA:

Spanish LS: English | Blood was sampled from 18 Spanish horses

4-12 years old weighing 345-450 kg living in similar conditions and

the liver of 11 horses from the same location which had died at 2

days to 18 years old was examined. Of the horses which had died,

8/11 showed some degree of fatty degeneration of the liver and 1

had hepatomegalia. Only 3 seemed to have a normal liver. There

was no difference in activity of gamma-glutamyltransferase or of

aspartate aminotransferase in blood between horses under and

over 10 years old. Some of the horses showed a slight increase

above normal in the activity of these enzymes. Digestible energy

30.05 Mcal daily (recommended value 16.5 Mcal daily), crude fibre

28.6% DM (18-22% DM) and phosphorus 31 g daily (14-18 g)

intakes were excessive as were those for DM, digestible crude

protein and calcium. It is concluded that excessive carbohydrate

intake gave rise to liver damage. PT: Journal-article AN: 941406178

 

My oh my! Cracking reference!

 

>>>>Poso-AR; Viljanen-Tarifa-E; Soveri-T; Oksanen-HE | Exercise-

induced transient hyperlipidemia in the racehorse.

 

I wonder if this might explain some of the gross exercise intolerance seen.

 

May I share some of this with my group please Phil, looks like it's time we

revisited it??

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

hi,

i work with humans only. so not sure whether this

holds treu for animals.

i would like to learn more.

one of the problems with hman tsting of livers is that

the pathol;ogy tests of bilirubin, etc show the

physiological functioning of the liver. the liver is

said to be healthy when the tests are below a certain

level.

but what we are not told openly is that the LIVER

TESTS ONLY SHOW ABOUT 30% OF LIVER FUNCTION. WHAT I

HAVE BEEN INFORMED IS THAT WHEN THE LIVER IS DAMAGED

70% , ONLY THEN DOES THE TESTS SHOW HIGHER LEVELS.

TILL THEN WE ARE UNDER AN ILLUSION THT THE TESTS ARE

NORMAL & OUR LIVERS ARE NORMAL.

hence very difficult to talk to drug, alcohol, addicts

who show the test results as a good healthy liver.

what does vet medicine have to say. i may have a guess

& say the ssame holds true.

anand

 

 

 

 

--- jackie <Jackie wrote: >

Thank you for that search Phil, it's a great

> database you have!

>

> >>>There are virtually no fat stores in the liver of

> newborn foals

> (Stammer et al, 1991). Postnatal fat accumulation in

> equine liver is

> associated with dietary and pathological factors.

> Ocana-Quero et al

> (1993) and Carroll et al (1987) suggest that

> enterotoxaemia

> associated with excessive carbohydrate intake caused

> liver

> damage, including fatty degeneration/fatty liver, in

> horses.

>

> That IS interesting. In the field many of us find

> that herbal liver tonics

> help enormously, both in prevention and treatment of

> laminitis, as so many

> holistic vets, but most mainstream vets totally

> poo-poo the idea of liver

> function being relevant, or worth supporting. I got

> a massive response to an

> ayurvedic liver tonic in my horse, and consequently

> started a huge row with

> a Cushings list vet over 'no evidence of liver

> problems in these

> cases........'

>

> >>>A genetic component is involved; the Morgan

> breed appears more

> predisposed metabolically than Thoroughbreds to

> laminitis and

> associated fatty liver (Janson, 1980).

>

> Yes - Morgans win our polls of cushings cases hands

> down.

>

> >>>>Stress and undernutrition/starvation can

> mobilise fat from storage

> depots, causing hyperlipaemia and increased fatty

> acid levels in

> blood. This can cause fatty liver also.

>

> Yes I knew about hyperlipaemia in ponies, and have

> heard of it in one or two

> of these horses. But if these horses have a

> metabolism like a pony, it

> stands to reason they may be somewhat susceptable

> too. Many have polyphagia,

> and I am loathe to 'starve' them - if they are to

> loose weight it ought to

> be through exercise IMO.

>

> >>>>>>. The higher oxidative ability together with

> the depressed rate of de novo fatty acid synthesis

> in liver may

> contribute to the dietary fat-induced decrease in

> plasma TAG

> concentrations in equines.

>

> Would this be of concern?

>

> ........ Morgans

> showed less ability to clear and metabolise glucose

> in response to

> glucose, insulin and adrenaline administration, and

> the amount of

> insulin secreted was less than in the Thoroughbred,

>

> That I find very surprising - my impression was they

> topped the insulin

> resistance poll too, but maybe it is only Cushings.

> I wonder if the liver is

> more at the root of this that we realise?

>

> >>>>>more prone to hypoglycaemic shock. Increased

> mobilisation and

> clearance of NEFAs during adrenaline administration

> and insulin

> tolerance tests were seen in Morgans but not in

> Thoroughbreds.

>

> What are NEFA's and what is the ramification of

> 'increased clearance' - from

> where to what??

>

> >>>Tests showed Morgans to tend towards

> hypothyroidism, and to

> have some degree of hepatic impairment.

>

> Hypothyroidism was the only relevant cause of

> 'hepatic impairment' I could

> find - but they say primary hypothyroidism is still

> undocumented in horses.

> It occurs as a result of Cushings, and yet in the US

> over 1 million dollars

> worth of thyroid supplements are sold for horse - in

> the UK none. I had to

> get an STA to import thyroxine to treat my horse's

> consistently low FT4,

> equine medication is not even available in the UK!

> There was an interesting

> response there too..

>

> >>>>>> It was concluded that the

> Morgan appears more predisposed metabolically than

> the

> Thoroughbred to laminitis and associated fatty

> liver.

>

> Fascinating! I have really struggled to find

> supporting evidence for liver

> involvement in these metabolic derangements, and it

> seems to be a chicken

> and egg situation with hypothyroidism anyway.

>

> I did do a search/study a while ago when I first

> started the study group ( I

> DO wish I could persuade you to join us Phil!!) -

> I'll post it for your

> interest, maybe you might have some comment.

>

> My horse was diagnosed with liver qi stagnation, and

> responded to the

> ayurvedic liver supplement - but those are two very

> different definitions of

> 'liver', and in WM terms liver enzymes are always

> totally normal.

>

>

> >>>>>Ocana-Quero-JM; Gomez-Villamandos-RJ;

> Rosa-Morillas-JC;

> Valera-Cordoba-M; Munoz-Carmona-JA;

> Ortega-Mariscal-MA;

> Santisteban-Valenzuela-JM; Gomez-Villamandos-JC;

> Avila-Jurado-I

> | Consequences of an imbalanced diet for horses.

> Preliminary

> study. | Archivos-de-Zootecnia. 1993, 42: 156,

> 81-84; 6 ref. LA:

> Spanish LS: English | Blood was sampled from 18

> Spanish horses

> 4-12 years old weighing 345-450 kg living in similar

> conditions and

> the liver of 11 horses from the same location which

> had died at 2

> days to 18 years old was examined. Of the horses

> which had died,

> 8/11 showed some degree of fatty degeneration of the

> liver and 1

> had hepatomegalia. Only 3 seemed to have a normal

> liver. There

> was no difference in activity of

> gamma-glutamyltransferase or of

> aspartate aminotransferase in blood between horses

> under and

> over 10 years old. Some of the horses showed a

> slight increase

> above normal in the activity of these enzymes.

> Digestible energy

> 30.05 Mcal daily (recommended value 16.5 Mcal

> daily), crude fibre

> 28.6% DM (18-22% DM) and phosphorus 31 g daily

> (14-18 g)

> intakes were excessive as were those for DM,

> digestible crude

> protein and calcium. It is concluded that excessive

> carbohydrate

> intake gave rise to liver damage. PT:

> Journal-article AN: 941406178

>

> My oh my! Cracking reference!

>

> >>>>Poso-AR; Viljanen-Tarifa-E; Soveri-T; Oksanen-HE

> | Exercise-

> induced transient hyperlipidemia in the racehorse.

>

> I wonder if this might explain some of the gross

> exercise intolerance seen.

>

> May I share some of this with my group please Phil,

> looks like it's time we

> revisited it??

>

> Jackie

>

>

 

=====

Anand Bapat

Pain Management Specialist

Sports Injury Specialist

Blacktown, Parramatta, Punchbowl, & Hammondville

0402 472 897

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> what does vet medicine have to say. i may have a guess

> & say the ssame holds true.

 

That is my experience, and why the TCM concept of Lv imbalance fascinated

me.

 

Jackie