Guest guest Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 In addition.....no one in this thread - has commented on the chinese materia medica ingredients. I recall a short e-mail discussion back then with Z'ev during the earlier days of the product and there was consensus that it was not a very good formulation. A number of the ingredients made no sense and were contraindicated, some ingredients (if they were herbs) were hidden. Richard > If I remember correctly, the problem was that a batch/batches were > contaminated in manufacturing with an antidepressant. The sex hormone > herbs matter was uncertain if they were a by product of the herbs used > or actually a synthetic drug in the formula.... > > doug > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 If I remember correctly, the problem was that a batch/batches were contaminated in manufacturing with an antidepressant. The sex hormone herbs matter was uncertain if they were a by product of the herbs used or actually a synthetic drug in the formula. In any case the PC-SPES was ruined as a company. doug On Friday, October 3, 2003, at 07:03 AM, Chinese Medicine wrote: > <ga.bates > RE: Steroid-sensitive cancers and the body's Detox Systems > > > Well put piece. If you look at the case of PC-SPES you will see how > this > formula was first heralded by urologists and oncologists as a worthy > drug in > the armamentarium against prostate cancer (and indeed some other > cancers as > well - check PubMed). HOWEVER, when it was discovered the formula was > not as > squeaky clean as the makers claimed all hell let loose. Not one WM doc > stood > up to put in a word for PC-SPES. It was withdrawn from the market after > heavy pressure from the FDA and California HD. Men using PC-SPES to > suppress > advanced PC either died, had to go back on conventional meds such a > Zoladex, > Lupron, Casodex or Flutamide (horrible side effects) or took their > chance > with herbal analogs such as PC-PLUS. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Doug, Richard, Right. It was a 'bad' formula from a TCM point of view. However, mechanistically speaking it 'did the business' as good or better than the highly expensive conventional medications. Somehow PC-SPES worked - I hold to the 'electron cloud theory' of which DIM seems another candidate. I (and some of my good colleagues) spent a lot of time on PC support groups when this formula was going under trying to salvage something from the mess. The loss of PC-SPES was a traumatic event because it meant that going back on medications after a period of 'freedom' (and rising PSA possibly with increasingly noticeable symptoms for some) would be fraught with even more undesirable side effects than the PC-SPES had to offer. > some ingredients (if they were herbs) were hidden. That is actually a point of contention because the analog formula PC-PLUS has been rigorously checked and guaranteed kosher by Donsbach. PC-PLUS will bring down PSA's in the 100's and reduce objective symptoms in many men. A point which I hope I am not labouring is that PSA when associated with disease and often classic Yin deficiency syndrome is an objective marker. In that context PSA is very real. PSA's in test tubes made to jump about when sub-physiological amounts of androgen are added is just a cheap trick. I will upload an article about PSA to help put this disease marker in perspective, because like prostate cancer itself it is something of a chimera. Cheers, Sammy. acudoc11 [acudoc11] 03 October 2003 15:35 Chinese Medicine Re: PC In addition.....no one in this thread - has commented on the chinese materia medica ingredients. I recall a short e-mail discussion back then with Z'ev during the earlier days of the product and there was consensus that it was not a very good formulation. A number of the ingredients made no sense and were contraindicated, some ingredients (if they were herbs) were hidden. Richard > If I remember correctly, the problem was that a batch/batches were > contaminated in manufacturing with an antidepressant. The sex hormone > herbs matter was uncertain if they were a by product of the herbs used > or actually a synthetic drug in the formula.... > > doug > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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