Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 I took a quick look at 's terms of use contract and although they have a copyright office to deal with problems there didn't seem to be much on specifics of these issues. i think we may have seen this CHA when some person was quoted in publication. I would really hope that the webmasters of each group establish a no quote policy. Remember that compared to say... a cancer survivors group or other personal and/or medical groups, we are pretty benign. doug On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 08:45 PM, Chinese Medicine wrote: > Doug, > >> I've been part of these public forums since the late 1980's starting >> with >> the WELL. The rule is actually the opposite of what Chris says below >> (soory chris). All words are owned by the writer and may not be >> desciminated, copied or quoted for any reason without the author's >> permission. This is the " rule " we all went by but I would check >> to >> see what the actualities and/or laws are concerning this. > > Copyrights for US writers are US copyrights and are honored by signers > of > the international copyright convention but in other countries the > copyright > would be unenforced. > Keep in mind, however, that what you can sue for is " economic damage, " > and in the case of a listservice posting where there is no economic > intent, > about the best you could practically (and expensively) do would be to > have > the infringement ceased. I have always >> assumed that my words are not quotable without my permission and >> assume >> that others feel that way as well. > > Yes, maybe, no. > So, in the long run, the use of one's listservice postings is a matter > of > etiquette because the pursuit of an infringement is only rarely going > to be > worthwhile or practicable. > > Bob AMEN. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 This is quite a difficult situation. Personally, i'm happy to have people quote text from the group, although this can have a few problems. Firstly, people talk freely within the group rather than in a prepared piece of text and therefore may openly speak out without first calculating their sentences. Secondly, people feel this is a closed group, and therefore tend to argue more openly rather than in printed form and not expect to have this quoted later. I really need to hear the views of the group memebers to make a final judgement. Attilio wrote: > I took a quick look at 's terms of use contract and although they > have a copyright office to deal with problems there didn't seem to be > much on specifics of these issues. i think we may have seen this CHA > when some person was quoted in publication. I would really hope that > the webmasters of each group establish a no quote policy. > Remember that compared to say... a cancer survivors group or other > personal and/or medical groups, we are pretty benign. > doug > > > On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 08:45 PM, > Chinese Medicine wrote: > > > Doug, > > > >> I've been part of these public forums since the late 1980's starting > >> with > >> the WELL. The rule is actually the opposite of what Chris says below > >> (soory chris). All words are owned by the writer and may not be > >> desciminated, copied or quoted for any reason without the author's > >> permission. This is the " rule " we all went by but I would check > >> to > >> see what the actualities and/or laws are concerning this. > > > > Copyrights for US writers are US copyrights and are honored by signers > > of > > the international copyright convention but in other countries the > > copyright > > would be unenforced. > > Keep in mind, however, that what you can sue for is " economic damage, " > > and in the case of a listservice posting where there is no economic > > intent, > > about the best you could practically (and expensively) do would be to > > have > > the infringement ceased. I have always > >> assumed that my words are not quotable without my permission and > >> assume > >> that others feel that way as well. > > > > Yes, maybe, no. > > So, in the long run, the use of one's listservice postings is a matter > > of > > etiquette because the pursuit of an infringement is only rarely going > > to be > > worthwhile or practicable. > > > > Bob > > AMEN. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Attilio, I think this is too large of a responsibility for you to have to pass any judgement on. I think the first thing to keep in mind for anyone who wishes to address any public forum, be it on line or elsewhere is to remember that " there's nothing new under the sun " . The idea that anything I say is my property as if I invented it's absurd and naive. And if anyone is fearful of having their intellectual property copied, then they should not post. Many folks are eloquent and able to express their thoughts in print better than others and through their words help others express their own thoughts albeit using someone else's words. Is this an infringement of copywrite? I understand there are cases where research, translations, etc., where one would like to protect one's work. In such cases, I think offlist correspondences would be safer. I'm also not sure how I feel about crossposting between two groups. In our case, CHA and this group. I know that in other groups I belong to, it is considered poor netiquette. Would like to know what others think. Fernando Chinese Medicine , " Attilio DAlberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > This is quite a difficult situation. > > Personally, i'm happy to have people quote text from the group, > although this can have a few problems. Firstly, people talk freely > within the group rather than in a prepared piece of text and > therefore may openly speak out without first calculating their > sentences. > > Secondly, people feel this is a closed group, and therefore tend to > argue more openly rather than in printed form and not expect to have > this quoted later. > > I really need to hear the views of the group memebers to make a > final judgement. > > Attilio > > wrote: > > I took a quick look at 's terms of use contract and although > they > > have a copyright office to deal with problems there didn't seem to > be > > much on specifics of these issues. i think we may have seen this > CHA > > when some person was quoted in publication. I would really hope > that > > the webmasters of each group establish a no quote policy. > > Remember that compared to say... a cancer survivors group or other > > personal and/or medical groups, we are pretty benign. > > doug > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 08:45 PM, > > Chinese Medicine wrote: > > > > > Doug, > > > > > >> I've been part of these public forums since the late 1980's > starting > > >> with > > >> the WELL. The rule is actually the opposite of what Chris says > below > > >> (soory chris). All words are owned by the writer and may not be > > >> desciminated, copied or quoted for any reason without the > author's > > >> permission. This is the " rule " we all went by but I would check > > > >> to > > >> see what the actualities and/or laws are concerning this. > > > > > > Copyrights for US writers are US copyrights and are honored by > signers > > > of > > > the international copyright convention but in other countries > the > > > copyright > > > would be unenforced. > > > Keep in mind, however, that what you can sue for is " economic > damage, " > > > and in the case of a listservice posting where there is no > economic > > > intent, > > > about the best you could practically (and expensively) do would > be to > > > have > > > the infringement ceased. I have always > > >> assumed that my words are not quotable without my permission > and > > >> assume > > >> that others feel that way as well. > > > > > > Yes, maybe, no. > > > So, in the long run, the use of one's listservice postings is a > matter > > > of > > > etiquette because the pursuit of an infringement is only rarely > going > > > to be > > > worthwhile or practicable. > > > > > > Bob > > > > AMEN. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Attilio > > I really need to hear the views of the group memebers to make a > final judgement. My view is that you should avoid making final judgments. I started this whole thing, and whereas I can't say that I'm sorry, I can point out that as with most human endeavours, this one resulted in unintended consequences. One more time... I am more or less unconcerned with the use that others make of my comments here. I offer them so that people with interest have something to think about. For me it's a very good sign when others begin repeating things that are discussed here. It means that folks are paying attention to our conversations and thinking about them, taking them in, no doubt making personal adjustments to ideas and so on... People seem to have reacted primarily to the notion that people often lay claim to work and ideas of others. But that seems just moot. That's what we're all striving to accomplish, i.e., others taking ownership of ideas that we share here. I think everyone should be encouraged to use and use and use again the words that are accumulating in these lists. Attributions should be made. And certainly if someone wants to remain in a community of individuals talking about things, if he or she should pursue some sort of commercial activity related to the expressions of others, those who authored them should be consulted. I don't know that that is a matter of law. No doubt lawyers would think so. I just needed to be able to answer a simple question as to the ownership of the copyright. I see that that is not a simple question. And so be it. But with regard to use of materials posted here, I, for one, would not like to see the slightest disincentive to their use. Let's keep things free and open. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 When i meant make a final decision, i meant in the context of finding out everyones views and then stating whether we should, as a group, use information freely or strict its use. Either way, a decision has to be made. That's what i meant by final decision. Personally, i'm all for sharing information. One of the reasons i started this group was to allow my fellow classmates free and easy access to my data, coursework, notes, etc (see files section). If people do object to having their work quoted or used, then they may want to consider wither not posting it or adding a tag at the bottom stating that the text may not be used again. Although i agree with Fernando that all thoughts are unified and its only a matter of time before someone plucks the thought out of the univseral consciousness. Attilio " kenrose2008 " <kenrose2008> wrote: > Attilio > > > > I really need to hear the views of the group memebers to make a > > final judgement. > > My view is that you should avoid making final judgments. > > I started this whole thing, and whereas I can't > say that I'm sorry, I can point out that as with > most human endeavours, this one resulted > in unintended consequences. > > One more time... > > I am more or less unconcerned with the use > that others make of my comments here. I offer > them so that people with interest have something > to think about. For me it's a very good sign when > others begin repeating things that are discussed > here. It means that folks are paying attention to > our conversations and thinking about them, > taking them in, no doubt making personal adjustments > to ideas and so on... > > People seem to have reacted primarily to the > notion that people often lay claim to work and > ideas of others. But that seems just moot. > That's what we're all striving to accomplish, > i.e., others taking ownership of ideas that we > share here. > > I think everyone should be encouraged to > use and use and use again the words that > are accumulating in these lists. Attributions > should be made. And certainly if someone > wants to remain in a community of individuals > talking about things, if he or she should pursue > some sort of commercial activity related to > the expressions of others, those who authored > them should be consulted. > > I don't know that that is a matter of law. > No doubt lawyers would think so. > > I just needed to be able to answer a simple > question as to the ownership of the copyright. > > I see that that is not a simple question. And > so be it. > > But with regard to use of materials posted here, > I, for one, would not like to see the slightest > disincentive to their use. > > Let's keep things free and open. > > Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Attilio, I agree with Fernando's views below. While the discussion is limited initially to people on list, it's also like speaking in a lecture hall. What has been said will continue to be discussed on list and off. People tape my lectures, but I tell them that I do not consider my comments as being " on the record " . In my lectures I spontaneously present and interpret a view of science for my students and other interested parties. Discussion ensues. There's back and forth. Since we work with authoritative source books and articles, there's no reason to assume that any part of the discussion is a " new finding " or authoritative statement unless you are inspired to personally see it that way. I'm guilty of crossposting on TCM and CHA because I've noted that the TCM list must have at least in part been generated from CHA. I have no objection to that method of generation. I hope that in the case of these two specific lists we can crosspost from time to time ... or I will consider just starting the same thread anew on each list. If even this much crossposting is in poor taste or bad netiquette, I will most assuredly cease and desist and offer my apologies. Emmanuel Segmen - fernando b. Chinese Medicine Thursday, October 02, 2003 4:37 AM Re: fair use Attilio, I think this is too large of a responsibility for you to have to pass any judgement on. I think the first thing to keep in mind for anyone who wishes to address any public forum, be it on line or elsewhere is to remember that " there's nothing new under the sun " . The idea that anything I say is my property as if I invented it's absurd and naive. And if anyone is fearful of having their intellectual property copied, then they should not post. Many folks are eloquent and able to express their thoughts in print better than others and through their words help others express their own thoughts albeit using someone else's words. Is this an infringement of copywrite? I understand there are cases where research, translations, etc., where one would like to protect one's work. In such cases, I think offlist correspondences would be safer. I'm also not sure how I feel about crossposting between two groups. In our case, CHA and this group. I know that in other groups I belong to, it is considered poor netiquette. Would like to know what others think. Fernando Chinese Medicine , " Attilio DAlberto " <attiliodalberto> wrote: > This is quite a difficult situation. > > Personally, i'm happy to have people quote text from the group, > although this can have a few problems. Firstly, people talk freely > within the group rather than in a prepared piece of text and > therefore may openly speak out without first calculating their > sentences. > > Secondly, people feel this is a closed group, and therefore tend to > argue more openly rather than in printed form and not expect to have > this quoted later. > > I really need to hear the views of the group memebers to make a > final judgement. > > Attilio > > wrote: > > I took a quick look at 's terms of use contract and although > they > > have a copyright office to deal with problems there didn't seem to > be > > much on specifics of these issues. i think we may have seen this > CHA > > when some person was quoted in publication. I would really hope > that > > the webmasters of each group establish a no quote policy. > > Remember that compared to say... a cancer survivors group or other > > personal and/or medical groups, we are pretty benign. > > doug > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 08:45 PM, > > Chinese Medicine wrote: > > > > > Doug, > > > > > >> I've been part of these public forums since the late 1980's > starting > > >> with > > >> the WELL. The rule is actually the opposite of what Chris says > below > > >> (soory chris). All words are owned by the writer and may not be > > >> desciminated, copied or quoted for any reason without the > author's > > >> permission. This is the " rule " we all went by but I would check > > > >> to > > >> see what the actualities and/or laws are concerning this. > > > > > > Copyrights for US writers are US copyrights and are honored by > signers > > > of > > > the international copyright convention but in other countries > the > > > copyright > > > would be unenforced. > > > Keep in mind, however, that what you can sue for is " economic > damage, " > > > and in the case of a listservice posting where there is no > economic > > > intent, > > > about the best you could practically (and expensively) do would > be to > > > have > > > the infringement ceased. I have always > > >> assumed that my words are not quotable without my permission > and > > >> assume > > >> that others feel that way as well. > > > > > > Yes, maybe, no. > > > So, in the long run, the use of one's listservice postings is a > matter > > > of > > > etiquette because the pursuit of an infringement is only rarely > going > > > to be > > > worthwhile or practicable. > > > > > > Bob > > > > AMEN. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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