Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 PS Re my paragraph on composite cortisone-CHM creams - I hope it's clear that I'm not suggesting that use of these creams should be encouraged - this was for information only. I also repeat and stress that some of these creams have been found to have excessively high levels of cortisone and their use is considered unsafe by western medical standards. - " Wainwright Churchill " <wchurchill <Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:39 PM Re: Re: eczema - cortizon > Dear Holger, > Speaking as an acupuncturist and Chinese herbal medicine practitioner, I > suspect that most people who use both these modalities would consider that > CHM is markedly superior for treating eczema than acupuncture alone, > although they can work well together. Many conditions respond pretty equally > to acupuncture or CHM, but skin problems often seem to respond quite a lot > better to herbal medicine. Therefore, if you have problems treating your > patient with just acupuncture, you might wish to consider this. > > The main treatment for eczema in CM is internal, but external applications > can be useful, such as herbal creams or washes. In some cases these help a > lot, and they can be tailored to the specific diagnosis of the patient. > > Cortisone cream can help people a lot symtomatically, but in itself, I don't > think it's curative, although in some cases, when symptoms remit, they don't > return, at least not immediately. The relief that people can gain using an > external treatment such as cortisone cream can be considerable, and it is > reasonable to think about using an external treatment while treating > internally with CM medical treatment. In my expreience, it is possible for > people to improve using CM while using cortisone externally, but there are a > few concerns, such as absorption of cortisone, changes to the skin with long > term cortisone use, etc. From a natural medicine point of view (including > CM), a concern with cortisone is that it is suppressing symtoms, possibly > driving them in more deeply. The skin is an organ of elimination, and in a > sense, although eczema itself is pathological, the eczema itself may reflect > the body's actions of elimination. Furthermore, CM treatment can have to do > with releasing the exterior, so you don't want to be pushing evil qi in. > Otherwise, there are several things to consider with eczema - what type is > it, etc., none of which cortisone treats, and which the suppressive effects > of cortisone might aggravate from a CM point of view. > > I've had patients who had obtained, in China Town, PRC composite creams > containing Chinese herbs and cortisone. People who have used this stuff have > reported that it works better than either herbs or cortisone by itself. I > note that these creams are illegal in the UK, and probably most or all of > the west. I'm not recommending or condoning an illegal activity, but I would > think that theoretically, if one needs symptomatic relief using a cream, and > one needs something stronger than herbs alone, the composite cream is > probably better than cortisone by itself, because there are more ingredients > alleviating the irritiation, and probably also the actions at the energetic > level are more conducive to healing. By the way, these Chinese compositie > creams have created a lot of problems for UK CHM practitioners, because they > are illegal and at least once were quite widely available, and sometimes > contained high amounts of cortisone that could be inappropriate from a > conventional medical standpoint. > > Going back to your question, I would think you could continue to have your > patient use the cortisone cream, but you want to see improvement in the > eczema from the acupuncture. If this doesn't happen after a number of > treatments, you might want to consider having your patient take CHM, in > addition to the acupuncture, or instead of it. If the eczema is improving, > try stopping the cortisone cream. There are various other creams on the > market that people can find helpful - besides herbal creams such as > calendula, there are non-steroidal creams available from pharmacies that > I've known to help people. > > Hope this helps. It's quite difficult to answer this question because really > one should tailor advice to the exact case. > > Best wishes, > Wainwright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 of course Från: " Wainwright Churchill " <WChurchill Svara till: Chinese Medicine Datum: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:48:33 +0100 Till: <Chinese Medicine > Ämne: PS to Re: Re: eczema - cortizon PS Re my paragraph on composite cortisone-CHM creams - I hope it's clear that I'm not suggesting that use of these creams should be encouraged - this was for information only. I also repeat and stress that some of these creams have been found to have excessively high levels of cortisone and their use is considered unsafe by western medical standards. - " Wainwright Churchill " <wchurchill <Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, September 16, 2003 4:39 PM Re: Re: eczema - cortizon > Dear Holger, > Speaking as an acupuncturist and Chinese herbal medicine practitioner, I > suspect that most people who use both these modalities would consider that > CHM is markedly superior for treating eczema than acupuncture alone, > although they can work well together. Many conditions respond pretty equally > to acupuncture or CHM, but skin problems often seem to respond quite a lot > better to herbal medicine. Therefore, if you have problems treating your > patient with just acupuncture, you might wish to consider this. > > The main treatment for eczema in CM is internal, but external applications > can be useful, such as herbal creams or washes. In some cases these help a > lot, and they can be tailored to the specific diagnosis of the patient. > > Cortisone cream can help people a lot symtomatically, but in itself, I don't > think it's curative, although in some cases, when symptoms remit, they don't > return, at least not immediately. The relief that people can gain using an > external treatment such as cortisone cream can be considerable, and it is > reasonable to think about using an external treatment while treating > internally with CM medical treatment. In my expreience, it is possible for > people to improve using CM while using cortisone externally, but there are a > few concerns, such as absorption of cortisone, changes to the skin with long > term cortisone use, etc. From a natural medicine point of view (including > CM), a concern with cortisone is that it is suppressing symtoms, possibly > driving them in more deeply. The skin is an organ of elimination, and in a > sense, although eczema itself is pathological, the eczema itself may reflect > the body's actions of elimination. Furthermore, CM treatment can have to do > with releasing the exterior, so you don't want to be pushing evil qi in. > Otherwise, there are several things to consider with eczema - what type is > it, etc., none of which cortisone treats, and which the suppressive effects > of cortisone might aggravate from a CM point of view. > > I've had patients who had obtained, in China Town, PRC composite creams > containing Chinese herbs and cortisone. People who have used this stuff have > reported that it works better than either herbs or cortisone by itself. I > note that these creams are illegal in the UK, and probably most or all of > the west. I'm not recommending or condoning an illegal activity, but I would > think that theoretically, if one needs symptomatic relief using a cream, and > one needs something stronger than herbs alone, the composite cream is > probably better than cortisone by itself, because there are more ingredients > alleviating the irritiation, and probably also the actions at the energetic > level are more conducive to healing. By the way, these Chinese compositie > creams have created a lot of problems for UK CHM practitioners, because they > are illegal and at least once were quite widely available, and sometimes > contained high amounts of cortisone that could be inappropriate from a > conventional medical standpoint. > > Going back to your question, I would think you could continue to have your > patient use the cortisone cream, but you want to see improvement in the > eczema from the acupuncture. If this doesn't happen after a number of > treatments, you might want to consider having your patient take CHM, in > addition to the acupuncture, or instead of it. If the eczema is improving, > try stopping the cortisone cream. There are various other creams on the > market that people can find helpful - besides herbal creams such as > calendula, there are non-steroidal creams available from pharmacies that > I've known to help people. > > Hope this helps. It's quite difficult to answer this question because really > one should tailor advice to the exact case. > > Best wishes, > Wainwright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 PS Re my paragraph on composite cortisone-CHM creams - I hope it's clear that I'm not suggesting that use of these creams should be encouraged - this was for information only. I also repeat and stress that some of these creams have been found to have excessively high levels of cortisone and their use is considered unsafe by western medical standards. >>>>The Chinese products usually contain steroids that are more potent than cortisone or hydrocortisone so that you can not compare them to using hydrocortisone alone Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 >>>>The Chinese products usually contain steroids that are more potent than cortisone or hydrocortisone so that you can not compare them to using hydrocortisone alone Alon That's useful to know. In the UK, the addition of pharmaceutical products to herbs has caused a number of problems for CHM practitioners, not only in the case of eczema creams. Sometimes the pharmaceutical products are not declared on the label, and occasionally, dangerous substances have been included. This demonstrates the need for good quality control, and acupuncturists who don't practice CHM should be aware of the need to obtain CHM supplies, such as patent medicines, from trustworthy sources. (Perhaps everyone already knows this.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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