Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Dear Ken, With regard to language I agree with you although I am not even a novice of the Chinese medical Language. What is missing in these fascinating linguistically reminders debate is the historical factor and human nature... In the 70 how many people that where interested in acupuncture " alternative " and so forth spoke or had the idea to learn Chinese? It was from what I can understand a little bit of anti attitude to bits of everything including academia (which at the time such knowledge would probably have been seen as, not just the language but historical philological and grammatical coupled with sociological and antropolical disciplines and so forth...) I know that can and ought to change now with most universities in Australia and Middlesex in London UK having medical Chinese and nomenclature and would not be surprised if Canada B.C is already there and or on its way... However the worry I have is of course Guatemala and Chinese medicine Chinese medicine and Guatemala... Promoting the utility and accessibility of Chinese medicine-TEAM whilst representing/presenting as much as possible what Chinese medical paradigm(s) have been are and the inherent changes that is built in to the phenomena(s) know as the Art of Benevolence? Why is it know as the Art of Benevolence? (sorry to ask a stupid question but...) Since when was it known as such? and before what was it known as and is it still referred to it or ? To regress: Here in Guatemala at least in Guatemala City there is in fact yet very extremely little TEAM-CM, most if not all is privet practice and that sector has other worries how to charge the most and thus present them self as " wizards " (read show people). GUAMAP are doing very interesting work in the rural areas and probably will just grow once there is internal push from Guatemalans to create something as solid as schools full time and or part time. I think there is a place in India that started as a community clinic and is now a three year course still having the community aspect as an objective, very interesting indeed... There are political and interpersonal intrigues that complicate these aspects. Namely that no one wants to work together and no one likes each other be they any aspect " strata " of society. Meanwhile I am running around as a headless chicken just trying to apply my ideals three times a week because I am crap at looking for funding and help (although I did have a one of those nice morning letters where the first person of these list has finally come to her senses and will come to Guatemala HOPEFULLY:-) Once a week trying to teach some youth workers to become a bit more versed in Chinese medicine ideally a three year at least relation with them... Zone 18. BUT they have no understanding as to why should they learn Chinese be it medical... If you ask me they are not even yet ready to study I mean really study Chinese medicine and I have the defect that I am not a real teacher of Chinese medicine. Still I been asked by a group of people that they " really " want to study Chinese medicine and I see that as an semi privet endower, giving me more experience to teach and also some income which hopefully can be spent on books tapes and videos... of CM-TEAM. I would love for the class to since day one know the nomenclature and even learn medical Chinese BUT I unfortunately do not know it my self... meaning that although I am on to it... So apart from " being on to it " how can one introduce it as part of the course? unfortunately have no idea how to pronounce yin from yang... Hence I can understand Alons approach of learning the meaning of Zheng Qi - Correct Qi within its historical and social (contemporary context and so forth) As you indeed are a proponent of... The difference is that The real Chinese part how to deal with it within the Chinese langue it self is left out and hence hinders one from accessing source fountains and hence is not enough in the long run. BUT pretty much what is happening in some ways here in Guatemala with some big difference (more about that later) are similar to 60-70 USA where not only the idea exist of knowing medical Chinese but not also the know How? So what do you or others suggest? I am torn between various other aspect for example should one promote ear acupuncture protocols against drug addiction because on one hand it seam to help but there is no infrastructure of CM thus it would plant the idea that CM is purely " techniques " that which makes it hard in the first place to really realize its potential (Wiseman " Alternative medicine Language neglect in the West by passing a wealth of knowledge, I can not remember the actual title). So on one hand I understand and agree with you Ken (maybe I do not understand but at least agree for the time being with you...) Chinese medical language should be part of any course following that what do I do to employ that awareness? Already people in this supposed class inhabited mainly by Western doctors i.e. professionals have said we do not want to learn Chinese, for someone had the idea that I was going to teach Chinese:-) Marco BTW, Ken is your e mail address the same? Ken: As always, I am not really all that interested in the curricula of the schools other than to note, yet again, since you brought it up, that these 4,000 hours do tend to exclude adequate study of the nomenclature. ...But as you see, we've each got to do the particular work of knowing particular terms. Then and only then will the deeper meanings, i.e., the methods of effecting clinical interventions, come clearly into view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 Dear Marco, > > > With regard to language I agree with you although I am not even a novice of the Chinese medical Language. I really am not sure what I think anymore. Sometimes it does seem to me that everyone should be required to invent their own language. But while few will do that, most of us can learn enough about Chinese medical language to be able to exchange meanings like the superintelligent apes that we are. > > What is missing in these fascinating linguistically reminders debate is the historical factor and human nature... > > In the 70 how many people that where interested in acupuncture " alternative " and so forth spoke or had the idea to learn Chinese? 3. > > It was from what I can understand a little bit of anti attitude to bits of everything including academia (which at the time such knowledge would probably have been seen as, not just the language but historical philological and grammatical coupled with sociological and antropolical disciplines and so forth...) Yeah. It was very much an anti-establishment sentiment that swept the tide of Chinese medicine along in the early 70's...at least in Southern California where I was. > > I know that can and ought to change now with most universities in Australia and Middlesex in London UK having medical Chinese and nomenclature and would not be surprised if Canada B.C is already there and or on its way... Well, there goes the neighborhood. How can you be anti-establishment in a big old brick and mortar degree mill? > > > However the worry I have is of course Guatemala and Chinese medicine Chinese medicine and Guatemala... Despite what might seem like relative silence from me on this issue, I have become concerned about it as well...and am even contemplating some steps to take to help contribute to the motion you are generating there. > > Promoting the utility and accessibility of Chinese medicine- TEAM whilst representing/presenting as much as possible what Chinese medical paradigm(s) have been are and the inherent changes that is built in to the phenomena(s) know as the Art of Benevolence? > > Why is it know as the Art of Benevolence? (sorry to ask a stupid question but...) > Since when was it known as such? and before what was it known as and is it still referred to it or ? It's not a stupid question, Marco. It's a good question, and I don't really know the answer. I'm in the States now and without access to most of my reference books. Off the top of my head, I can't even recall a specific textual reference to The Art of Benevolence. But knowing little or nothing about a subject has never stopped me from rattling on about it. Why now? The term for benevolence in Chinese is ren2, which is made up of the person radical and the number two. Sorry, Alon, for delving into the details of what this particular word means, but that is what it takes to know what it means. Two people: the basic cohort required for benevolence to come into existence. This word, benevolence, is one of the key terms of Confucianism. The dao of benevolence is one way of summing up what Confucius was on about, and as pointed out rather convincingly by that scoundrel Unschuld, this ethos provided one of the key organizing themas for the ogoing development of the cognitive esthetics we think of as " Chinese medicine " whatever that is. In other words, one of the reasons to call medicine in China the Art of Benevolence is to earmark it as an artifact of the prevailing Confucius social contract. > > To regress: > > Here in Guatemala at least in Guatemala City there is in fact yet very extremely little TEAM-CM, most if not all is privet practice and that sector has other worries how to charge the most and thus present them self as " wizards " (read show people). > > GUAMAP are doing very interesting work in the rural areas and probably will just grow once there is internal push from Guatemalans to create something as solid as schools full time and or part time. I think there is a place in India that started as a community clinic and is now a three year course still having the community aspect as an objective, very interesting indeed... > > There are political and interpersonal intrigues that complicate these aspects. Namely that no one wants to work together and no one likes each other be they any aspect " strata " of society. Well, it's good to know that human nature is alive and well there. As long as everybody hates everybody that they're supposed to we can get up every morning and be sure that the world is on an even keel. > > Meanwhile I am running around as a headless chicken just trying to apply my ideals three times a week because I am crap at looking for funding and help (although I did have a one of those nice morning letters where the first person of these list has finally come to her senses and will come to Guatemala HOPEFULLY:-) In my visualization of the cosmic all, I have seen you overrun by beautifully manicured North Americans and Europeans who can't get to Guatemala fast enough. Better turn up the volume at the rug-weaving factory as you'll need loads of tourists trinkets to send home with the diligent. > > Once a week trying to teach some youth workers to become a bit more versed in Chinese medicine ideally a three year at least relation with them... Zone 18. BUT they have no understanding as to why should they learn Chinese be it medical... If you ask me they are not even yet ready to study I mean really study Chinese medicine and I have the defect that I am not a real teacher of Chinese medicine. Yes. Sit them down with a copy of Matthews and tell them, " this will cure you. " Of course, in the situation you describe, something comes before a full treatment of Chinese medical language. But if such a treatment isn't performed somewhere by someone then the quality of the exports developed will eventually suffer. > > Still I been asked by a group of people that they " really " want to study Chinese medicine and I see that as an semi privet endower, giving me more experience to teach and also some income which hopefully can be spent on books tapes and videos... of CM-TEAM. Sounds promising. > > I would love for the class to since day one know the nomenclature and even learn medical Chinese BUT I unfortunately do not know it my self... meaning that although I am on to it... > > So apart from " being on to it " how can one introduce it as part of the course? unfortunately have no idea how to pronounce yin from yang... I'm going to be meeting with various people over the coming few weeks to address your problem, albeit as part of a larger initiative to develop and provide training materials for students and doctors outside of the realms of the so-called developed world. Just stay tuned... > > Hence I can understand Alons approach of learning the meaning of Zheng Qi - Correct Qi within its historical and social (contemporary context and so forth) As you indeed are a proponent of... The difference is that The real Chinese part how to deal with it within the Chinese langue it self is left out and hence hinders one from accessing source fountains and hence is not enough in the long run. Alas! > > BUT pretty much what is happening in some ways here in Guatemala with some big difference (more about that later) are similar to 60-70 USA where not only the idea exist of knowing medical Chinese but not also the know How? > > So what do you or others suggest? It's so simple as to be unbelievable. All anyone has to do is start. And all anyone has to do who wants to start but has no idea of how to start is to pick up one of the Chinese Medical Chinese texts and...start. And if that doesn't make sense, just contact me directly. > > I am torn between various other aspect for example should one promote ear acupuncture protocols against drug addiction because on one hand it seam to help but there is no infrastructure of CM thus it would plant the idea that CM is purely " techniques " that which makes it hard in the first place to really realize its potential (Wiseman " Alternative medicine Language neglect in the West by passing a wealth of knowledge, I can not remember the actual title). > > So on one hand I understand and agree with you Ken (maybe I do not understand but at least agree for the time being with you...) > Chinese medical language should be part of any course following that what do I do to employ that awareness? We can only do what we can do, amigo. > > > Already people in this supposed class inhabited mainly by Western doctors i.e. professionals have said we do not want to learn Chinese, for someone had the idea that I was going to teach Chinese:-) > > Marco > > BTW, Ken is your e mail address the same? use the <editor_caom...> address. Ken > Ken: > > As always, I am not really all that interested > in the curricula of the schools other than > to note, yet again, since you brought it > up, that these 4,000 hours do tend to exclude > adequate study of the nomenclature. > > > ..But as you see, we've each got to do the > particular work of knowing particular terms. > > Then and only then will the deeper meanings, > i.e., the methods of effecting clinical interventions, > come clearly into view. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 17, 2003 Report Share Posted September 17, 2003 hi folks , i think yoummight find this data interesting & worth looking into as a healer. we have done afair bit of work in this area over the past 10 eyars. would appreciate your comments. Shivambu its origin This is the therapy that has been as ancient as we care to recollect. Its been said that Lord Shiva told Devi Parvati about the specific benefits of urine & its use for keeping people healthy & getting rid of disease. It was suggested as a preventive medicine. But today it has to be utilised more as a treatment than a preventive format of medicine. The earliest literature on the subject is the chapter on Shivambu in the “Damar Tantra” titled ‘Shivambu Kalpa Vidhi’. This consists of 104 verses narrated by Lord Shiva to Devi Parvati on the ways & means of using urine as medicine in different forms. They are in drinking it, applying it & also in from of compounds, mixtures & special prescriptions which are supposed to have specific benefits on the human body. The study of the subject looking at the data gathered & commented on in each verse of the Shivambu Kalpa Vidhi is very informative. It also suggests that a lot of research data would have been gathered before such verses could have been written. There also seems to be the age old system of education inculcated in the literature. I mean no easy recipe for a particular disease has been sppon fed. Its up to the practitioner to understand the subject, after which he/she will be able to judge & find out for their selves what the prescription means & how it has to be implemented. This is akin to security for today’s technology, to avoid falling into wrong hands. So this may have a basis in its own right. Shivambu has been used since ancient times. There is anecdotal evidence to suggest that sadhus, rishis, saints, seers, yogis, people doing high level meditation, etc. were practising this therapy for years. They were harnessing the benefits without passing it to their people. The difference today is we are trying to propogate it with an intent to reduce suffering. People do feel that there is stupidity in this modality as their ignorance tends to say so. But after practising the modality for a few months they all seem to agree that there is definitely some benefit ranging from a major change in their lives to a small increment of change. CANCER DOES NOT MEAN CANCELLED FOR LIFE. The amazing recovery story of Shri Himmat Somaiya from terminal cancer is so thrilling, sensational, exciting, & inspiring that I have decided to reproduce the same here in his own words for the benefit of the readers. Mr. Somaiya after his miraculous recoveryhas become a powerful propogator & mighty supporter of U.T.( urine therapy—traditionally known in India as Shivambu). He has joined our shivambu mission whole heartedly. “friends, had I not stumbled upon Shivambu eleven years before, my family members & friends would have been mourning my 11th death anniversary ( today it will be 16th death anniversary) In the year 1984 when I was 42 years old the doctors at the prestigious Tata Memorial Hospital, Bombay diagnosed that I was suffering from liver cancer of the last stage. Prior to getting admitted to Tata Hospital I was treated by several well known allopaths, homeopaths, & even ayurvedic physicians for several months, but my health went on deteriorating day by day, as I could not eat anything; as a result of which my body was reduced to a mere skeleton weighing 40kgs. Against my original weight of 62 kgs. Doctors at Tata Hospital had advised me to go for chemptherapy & thereafter radiation therapy as a last resort. I shuddered at the very thought of these dangerous treatments as I had seen with my own eyes the miserable 7 painful conditions of my few realtives & friends who had undergone those horrible treatments. I prayed GOD to save me from this dangerous predicament. And as if GOD heard my prayer & sent his messenger in the form of one Mr.Nanubhai Chitalia whose incredible recovery story of termiinal liver cancer had been published by numerous newspapers & magazines. He had miraculously recovered from liver cancer by Shivambu & had healthily survived for more than 10 years against the physicians prognosis of a few days. He came to meet me at Tata Hospital to inspire & guide me to use Shivambu instead of opting for harmful dangerous treatments. I gathered courage & took voluntary discharge from Tata hospital against medical advice & doctors warning that I won’t survive for more than 10 days if I don’t undergo the proposed treatments. Being a bookseller by profession I had read a few books on the subject of Shivambu, but I had never practised it . I made up my mind to follow it as a last resort.”when one is dying he will do anything for self preservation”. I started drinking 11/2 – 2 glasses of Shiovambu in the morning & within a few days my mouth ulcers were cured & the blood that was oozing out from my tongue & gums also stopped. This was not a small achievement for me. I felt great relief as I had suffered these afflictions for several months inspite of spending thousands of rupees on its treatment. This gave me added confidence & inspiration to do Shivambu treatment more systematically & intensively. I started drinking whole day’s urine around seven(7) glasses & in between drank ample water, herbal tea of Tulsi & Pudina, carrot juice, cabbage juice, vegetable soups, fruit juices at an interval of an hour. aFter one month of treatment there was considerable improvement in my general health, & at the end of 3 months a strange incident occurred. Along with the stools I passed few tumour like substances which I collected & sent for pathological examination. In the report it was mentioned that those were the malignant tumours that might have got separated from the liver. Thereafter there was fast improvement in my health. After 6 months I went for a check up at Tata hospital & to the amazement of my physicians I was declared totally normal & healthy. Today after 10 years(16 years) from the deadly disease I am having extraordinary health & stamina which I didn’t have 20 years ago. I have become a legendary personality amongst my friends, relatives & well wishers. From my own experience I can confidently declare that cancer can be certainly cured by Shivambu(urine therapy) if done systematically. Healthy Life in the 21st Century The following data makes very interesting reading. There is tremendous therapeutic potential in these ingredients individually that there needs to be further studies done regarding this subject. Lots of research has been done on a few of these ingredients in terms of either isolating them & studying their efficacy, or further studies regarding synthesising the product in a lab to derive the same or better benefit for the patient. But its something to be noted that some of these items when synthesised & provided for medical care are very expensive due to the amount of work , & cost involved to produce the end product. They have also been known to be quite potent which means they are very effective but sometimes can cause severe side effects. India is a poor country & the world is slowly but surely finding it difficult to fund health costs even in the first world countries. What with the growing costs & the patent rights issue & that leading to monopoly & dependency on overseas medications, we are going to suffer badly. I am referring to the poor & the needy of society who are going to be worse off. After all the better off, do not seek treatment within the country & at the local & govt. hospitals. They seem to favour specialist & so called centres of excellence & are generally unaware of the suffering of the poor & the lot of the downtrodden. The following details will bring to light the qualities of these chemicals. urokinase – a compound which activates substances in the blood stream to dissolve blood clots. Embolism cases can be treated with good results. nitro-glycerine— an artery dilating agent , which has an ability to increase the coronary blood flow to the cardiac muscle, used to relieve angina pectoris. Directin—when added to the culture medium causes all cancer cells on which it has been so far tested , to align themselves end to end into straight rows. 3-methyl glyoxal—nobel laureate Albert Szent Gyorgi isolated this substance which has been shown to destroy cancer cells. Antineoplasm—Dr.S.Burzynski isolated this peptide fraction , which has been found to selectively stop the growth of cancerous cells without significantly affecting the growth of regular cells. H-II -- inhibits the growth of cancer cells & decreases already existing cancerous tumours, without interfering with the repair process. Uric acid –helps to control the process of free radical scavengers (cancer causing molecules) in the body, controls the aging process & has a Tuberculostatic effects. Beta-indo-acetic acid –is an inhibitor of somatic growth in animals & of carcinoma & sarcoma in animals. Retine—showed an inhibitory action on the growth of transplanted malignant tumours in mice. Allantoin—is a nitrogenous crystalline substance & oxidation product of uric acid (ie: purine metabolism). This is used in medical & veterinary professions to treat wounds & to stimulate growth of healthy tissues. Protein globulins—having antibodies to specific allergen found to be identical to the proteins in serum (blood), immunoglobulins. Renin---produced by the kidneys maintaining the body’s vascular tone & thereby influences blood pressure. It is used by the body to regulate the production & liberation of aldosterone. Creatinine & Hippuric acid --- have been known for their antibacterial & hence antituberculostic properties (creatinine is a product of creatine metabolism) DHEA (Dehydroepiandrosterone or dehydroisoandrosterone)--- is a steroid secreted by the adrenal gland. This component prevents obesity, extends life span of animals & is a possible treatment for aplastic anaemia, diabetes & breast cancer in women. DHEA--- stimulates bone marrow & production of all bone marrow elements including red cells, platelets, monocytes, macrophages & lymphocytes, lower levels of DHEA seems to be related to aging process. UREA--- is an end product of protein metabolism, & has an antibacterial property. The urea level found in the kidney exercises a marked inhibitory effect on inflammation. Bacteriostatic & bactericidal effect increases with decreasing ph. Urea is an organic solvent, dissolving fats & other natural body secretions. Adenylate cyclase--- produced by the kidneys is a hormone which produces a chemical called cyclic AMP. This chemical is the mediator of action of all hormones in the body. Erythropoietin--- A hormone which stimulates the bone marrow to produce red blood cells (erythocytes). Hormone Arythopeirtica –has been found to stimulate the formation of red cells in the blood. Prostaglandiun--- is a fatty acid derivative produced by various organs of the body including the kidneys & prostate glands. This is good for hypertension & can act as a birth control agent. Growth substances--- are considered the plant hormones or auxines . The effect of these auxines is to stretch the cell ( not cell multiplication). Ferments—A ferment of anti-anaemic properties was found in the urine of patients suffering from pernicious anaemia. These ferments increased the reticulocytes & had a favourable effect on the general condition in anaemics. Agglutinins & Precipitins have neutralising activity against polio & other viruses. Oxyproteic Acid compounds – a well characterised group of peptides has been found in human urine. Opsonis – is a blood substance, which acts on the bacteria, causing them to be more easily destroyed by the phagocytic cells. Proteose – is found in urine of allergic patients. It was felt that, this contains a specific antigen to which patient was sensitive. It was demonstrated that it could be employed for specific desensitization in measured doses in many types of allergic conditions & it was used for treatment & cure of urticaria, prurigo, dermatitis herpetiformis, psoriasis, eczema, asthama, rheumatoid arthritis & also hay fever. Urine peptide (or polypeptide)--- is found in urine having tuberculostatic activity which has been isolated. Its molecular weight is said to be very low. Various enzymes—like pepsin, trypsin amylase, lipase & maltase, etc. are excreted in normal urine. It has been observed that the body will produce the very enzymes needed to heal the body in diseased condition & these particular enzymes are generally excreted through the urine. The above chemical substances have great therapeutic value including the power of destroying bacteria & this goes in the line of practice of allopathic or Western Medicinal Practice. Today some of these products are being manufactured & patients benefitting inspite of huge costs to the person. Others have not yet been considered & we are along way away from their utility in the treatment of an individual. But the sad fact is that all these ingredients are available in the natural form & may be collectively more powerful, much more than the sum of the individual ingredients. HOW? It’s a fact of life that all these ingredients are found together in a simple substance—urine. This is the substance that we reject as baseless, useless & an utterly non-useful waste product. But the world is changing. Till not so long ago the world was throwing away placental products after delivery. Today the same are being harnessed for such useful purposes that we cannot imagine going back a few years. Similarly we believe from our experience that the time is ripe for the Indian scientists to start wirk on the benefits of shivambu as seen through scientific eyes. Only then will we benefit the community at large & the country as a whole. There is enough anecdotal evidence to accept clinically that this works without causing harm to the person. 1.The first thing one does when we reviewuate a therapy is – will it cause undue harm. This passes that test. 2.The second thing that we look for is how beneficial is it to the patient. It presently seems to have passed that test too. By virtue of so many people swearing by it in India & over 68 countries of the world, they must be getting results. Urine injection was effective in water retention, spasms of larynx, pertussis, tinnitus, skin conditions, spastic paralysis, migraine, asthma, prurigo, eczema, hay fever, etc. application of urine was also observed to improve the blood picture of patients suffering from pernicious anemia Each of the ingredients listed above are derivatives from urine. So the respective benefits can be obtained with a prescribed therapeutic regimen of urine.(commonly referred to as Shivambu) 3.The third part is the scientific reviewuation of the therapy. This is in its infancy as a lot of work needs to be done & the methodology, the data, the equipment are all to be newly designed to look at a different set of parameters for reviewuation. Some part work in terms of the references given above has been done, but with the intention of obtaining isolated ingredients for use in specific areas. Our science has been going at a microscopic level & now it may be the time to look at the macroscopic level as well. This may be the model for the 21st century. So let us look at that. KIDNEY STONE- This is the story of a young man in his early twenties who one day presented with acute low back pain. He had history of blood in urine & severe colic for the past few days. He had been checked by an X-ray & it was observed that there was a calcified spot about the size of a rice grain in the kidney region. He was diagnosed as having a kidney stone. The patient could not afford the cost of operation advised. So he was suffering. When he came to me he was still bleeding during urination & also had severe colic in the lower back. I advised him to go on Shivambu treatment consisting of drinking his urine all day. He did this for a few days along with increased fluids & coconut water. His pain reduced over the next 36 hours & the presentation of blood in urine disappeared within a period of 24 – 36 hours. Patient was quite happy with the result & was back at his work as a carpenter. Around the 7th day he found that while urinating he passed a stone the size of a rice grain which harmlessly was excreted. Patient actually carried it with him & showed it to me a week later. Since then patient has not had any further complaints of colic or bleeding over the past few years. KIDNEY STONE- This is a young man studying & working hard all day who suddenly found himself with agonising pain. This presentation was followed by check up sonography which revealed a stone. Patient had the associated colic & blood in urine consistent with such a diagnosis. The patient asked for my advice & I suggested that there is a conservative measure which can be effective within a period of 1 week. If this did not work then he should consider lithotripsy which was advised for him to undertake presently. Accordingly, patient cancelled his lithotripsy appointment & went on a shivambu diet. Here he was prescribed urine intake throughout the day. Every drop of his urine was to be consumed. In addition he was to increase his intake of fluids mainly consisting of water, coconut water & barley water. He was advised to have a light diet. Within 36 hours slowly the pain settled down & disappeared completely. Simultaneously the bleeding also disappeared. After this he still had some heaviness in the lower back region which I put down to the condition not having been cleared completely.the urine intake was continued as before & after a week his ache had gone. Then we shifted to urine intake 2/day & increased fluid intake. After a 2 week period when he was feeling quite well indeed he repeated his sonography to find no evidence of his stone. Shivambu was continued once/day & after a few months he was feeling fine. So shivambu was discontinued. After a few weeks he noticed some subtle aching in the lower back & patient returned to shivambu therapy & got better. After a few weeks he discontinued treatment. Today, after over an year patient is perfectly alright. He is back to his busy lifestyle & enjoying life again. CIRRHOSIS- This is not a success story. This patient was around 50years old.This patient came to me with ascitis in the end stage & bad liver damage due to alcohol. His case was given up by the doctors as end stage & awaiting death. Patient was put on a rigourous routine of very carefully controlled fluid intake & urine intake 24 hours a day. This meant that he was taking in urine that he was passing out all day. He was also being given acupuncture treatment. Inspite of the emotional & mental trauma that the patient was undergoing in his life, he continued to show slow but steady improvement. His abdominal girth reduced & his fluid retention was obviously getting better. This was all over a period of a few weeks. We were beginning to feel that we may be able to pull him out. But fate intervened. He was redirected to have allopathic treatment by his relatives. Within a period of 2 weeks he started deteriorating. The patient felt that the two week gains he made during this hospitalisation was due to the shivambu treatment that was persistent before entry to hospital.This was inspite of not taking shivambu in those 2 weeks .The efficacy of other treatment had increased. After that the patient started slipping & went from bad to worse. He eventually died. I am still at odds to figure out why the patient & his family discontinued a treatment that was giving results & patient was feeling better day by day. CIRRHOSIS- success This was an elderly man who had developed liver damage due to alcohol. The treatment was ineffective & all measures had been tried. He had tenderness in the liver area with yellowish tinge to skin & eyes. His bilirubin levels were quite high. The relatives had given up hope of recovery . Patient was put on a fast of shivambu for few days with minimum diet. Diet mainly consisted of bland & easily digestible food without any fats in them. High liquid intake was encouraged. After a few weeks he started showing signs of recovery. Slowly his diet was brought to normal. Within a short space of time( few weeks) he was able to eat normally. He was away from alcohol & the tests showed his bilirubin levels to have cleared out. He then went back to his village. He was feeling hale & hearty when we checked on him 6 months later. He had kept away from alcohol. U This is a gentleman who has tried it as an experiment to study the process of shivambu & its effects.he has been practising it for the past 8 years without fail ,with occassional fasts & increase in intake. His observations are very informative. He experienced that during the cleansing process within the body, there was excretion of all waste matter from the body through the nearest exit available. So phlegm stuck in the throat may be coughed out, while phlegm/mucus stuck in the nose or lungs will tend to be sneezed out. Similarly acidity in the gut would be expelled through vomiting & any excretory matter harmful to the body would be expelled through the bowels. It also occurred that if there was any toxins collected in the body under the skin, this may be expelled through the skin in the form of itching, oozing, boils, etc. some of these effects are generally referred to as a reaction or an aggravation. In the overall scheme of things this is the cleansing process required to make the body more pure. It has been observed that whenever the body has a focus of perverse energy within the body- be it gases, cold, mucus, heat, etc. this expulsion will tend to occur. The overall purification of the body acts in combination with the lifestyle you lead. If as part of this purification process one tends to overeat, or eat the wrong food- the whole purpose of purification is being affected. When the body starts becoming purer, this person started seeing some phenomenal effects. He felt lighter, fresher, his hair loss stopped, tongue became less slimy, skin quality improved, flexibility increased, quality of sleep improved & his ability to withstand stresses of life improved. Besides it was observed that his immunity had increased. His proneness to common colds, feeling off & feverish had changed drastically. When shivambu fasts were conducted his body responded with greater changes in the rate of above mentioned parameters. Person is well & feeling above normal in terms of our known health parameters. He also observed that meditation was easier to achieve. At present person is continuing in the hope of preventing illness from arising in the future. M This is an elderly gentleman who started taking it for his health problems of smoking related bronchitis & its associated problems. Whenever he started on shivambu, he found some short term gains. He felt the gains were not adequate to be persistent enough. Stop & start in the intake continued. Eventually person discontinued therapy. His disease process pro rata with age deteriorated & he died at an older age. D This is an elderly man who has been having shivambu off & on. Initially he tried it for chest pain/angina. This reduced over a period of time. But his legs started letting him down & we could not ascertain whether he benefitted enough to walk greater distance. He was definitely able to walk for longer duration at a slower rate. His quality of life had improved tremendously. He has since discontinued the therapy. Patient Y This is a pt. who suffers from moderate rheumatoid arthritis. She had found effectiveness of allopathic medication. This slowly had to be increased in potency & dosage to get the desired effect. With the long term treatment in mind, pt. started shivambu & observed the following: 1. medication reduced in potency to obtain same level of relief. 2. dosage reduced in frequency & strength to obtain the same relief. 3. ability to cope with the stress of disease improved. 4. found some improvement in stiffness & range of motion 5. skin improved 6. Infrequently stools were loose & foul smelling, suggesting cleansing of the bowels. 7. The oedema around the joints reduced. overall health has been quite good. Inspite of this arthritis has not disappeared as some people have experienced. There is need ofr total management. This involves fasting, exercises,emotional peace & tranquility, yoga & meditation to enhance the process. When these were done together there was better relief & improvement in parameters. Fasting was done for some time & this did give some positive results.This could not be followed through for longer duration. This may be one of the reasons for not being as successful as others. Lady X This is a young girl who was suffering from scratching of the skin virtually since birth. She was diagnosed as skin complaint without any known cause. All allergy testing was done & showed no known allergens. She did show clinical signs of increased itching & desire to scratch in her sleep it bled at times. This was aggravated by contact with grass, tomatoes & some food items. Inspite of this allergy testing showed “all clear”. Her only recourse to management was to wear full length clothes during sumer or winter. Besides she was prescribed cortisone cream which in mixture with vaseline calmed the itching for about 6-8 hours. If not reapplied, her scratching returned. The parents were worried regarding her future. At this stage they heard about shivambu & decided to try it. They started applying externally as it was obnoxious for the little girl to drink it. But within a period of a few days her skin started clearing up.the smoothness in the skin returned. It was then that internal shivambu was recommended. The patient reluctantly complied. After a few days it was observed that her skin started looking better . her scratching at night reduced & she could sleep better. Her growth over the next few years started normally. It was only then that the realisation occurred that the disease process was stunting her growth. Today after a period of a few years since start of shivambu, she is now free from the disease. She does not need to take shivambu everyday for her condition. We actually are recommending it as a preventive measure. She does need it once every few months as the skin gets rough at times. She is leading a happy life & looking forward to growing tall & strong. thanks for the read & await your comments. anand --- kenrose2008 <kenrose2008 wrote: > Dear Marco, > > > > > > With regard to language I agree with you although > I am not > even a novice of the Chinese medical Language. > > I really am not sure what I think anymore. > > Sometimes it does seem to me that > everyone should be required to invent > their own language. > > But while few will do that, most of us > can learn enough about Chinese medical > language to be able to exchange meanings > like the superintelligent apes that we are. > > > > > > What is missing in these fascinating > linguistically reminders > debate is the historical factor and human nature... > > > > In the 70 how many people that where interested in > > acupuncture " alternative " and so forth spoke or had > the idea to > learn Chinese? > > 3. > > > > > > It was from what I can understand a little bit of > anti attitude to > bits of everything including academia (which at the > time such > knowledge would probably have been seen as, not just > the > language but historical philological and grammatical > coupled > with sociological and antropolical disciplines and > so forth...) > > Yeah. It was very much an anti-establishment > sentiment that swept the tide of Chinese medicine > along in the early 70's...at least in Southern > California > where I was. > > > > I know that can and ought to change now with most > universities in Australia and Middlesex in London UK > having > medical Chinese and nomenclature and would not be > surprised > if Canada B.C is already there and or on its way... > > Well, there goes the neighborhood. How can > you be anti-establishment in a big old brick and > mortar degree mill? > > > > > > > > However the worry I have is of course Guatemala > and Chinese > medicine Chinese medicine and Guatemala... > > Despite what might seem like relative silence > from me on this issue, I have become concerned > about it as well...and am even contemplating some > steps to take to help contribute to the motion you > are generating there. > > > > > > Promoting the utility and accessibility of Chinese > medicine- > TEAM whilst representing/presenting as much as > possible what > Chinese medical paradigm(s) have been are and the > inherent > changes that is built in to the phenomena(s) know as > the Art of > Benevolence? > > > > Why is it know as the Art of Benevolence? (sorry > to ask a stupid > question but...) > > Since when was it known as such? and before what > was it > known as and is it still referred to it or ? > > It's not a stupid question, Marco. It's > a good question, and I don't really know > the answer. I'm in the States now and without > access to most of my reference books. Off > the top of my head, I can't even recall a > specific textual reference to The Art of > Benevolence. But knowing little or nothing > about a subject has never stopped me from > rattling on about it. Why now? > > The term for benevolence in > Chinese is ren2, which is made up of the > person radical and the number two. Sorry, > Alon, for delving into the details of what this > particular word means, but that is what it > takes to know what it means. > > Two people: the basic cohort required > for benevolence to come into existence. > > This word, benevolence, is one of the > key terms of Confucianism. The dao of > benevolence is one way of summing up > what Confucius was on about, and as > pointed out rather convincingly by that > scoundrel Unschuld, this ethos provided > one of the key organizing themas for the > ogoing development of the cognitive > esthetics we think of as " Chinese medicine " > whatever that is. > > In other words, one of the reasons to call > medicine in China the Art of Benevolence > is to earmark it as an artifact of the prevailing > Confucius social contract. > > > > > > > To regress: > > > > Here in Guatemala at least in Guatemala City there > is in fact > yet very extremely little TEAM-CM, most if not all > is privet practice > and that sector has other worries how to charge the > most and > thus present them self as " wizards " (read show > people). > > > > > > GUAMAP are doing very interesting work in the > rural areas and > probably will just grow once there is internal push > from > Guatemalans to create something as solid as schools > full time > and or part time. I think there is a place in India > that started as a > community clinic and is now a three year course > still having the > community aspect as an objective, very interesting > indeed... > > > > There are political and interpersonal intrigues > that complicate > these aspects. Namely that no one wants to work > together and > no one likes each other be they any aspect " strata " > of society. > > Well, it's good to know that human nature > is alive and well there. As long as everybody > hates everybody that they're supposed to > we can get up every morning and be sure > that the world is on an even keel. > > > > > > Meanwhile I am running around as a headless > chicken just > trying to apply my ideals three times a week because > I am crap > at looking for funding and help (although I did have > a one of > those nice morning letters where the first person of > these list > has finally come to her senses and will come to > Guatemala > HOPEFULLY:-) > > In my visualization of the cosmic all, I have > seen you overrun by beautifully manicured > North Americans and Europeans who can't > get to Guatemala fast enough. Better turn > up the volume at the rug-weaving factory > as you'll need loads of tourists trinkets to > send home with the diligent. > > > > > > Once a week trying to teach some youth workers to > become a > bit more versed in Chinese medicine ideally a three > year at least > relation with them... Zone 18. BUT they have no > understanding > as to why should they learn Chinese be it medical... > If you ask > me they are not even yet ready to study I mean > really study > Chinese medicine and I have the defect that I am not > a real > teacher of Chinese medicine. > > Yes. Sit them down with a copy of Matthews > and tell them, " this will cure you. " > > Of course, in the situation you describe, > something comes before a full treatment > of Chinese medical language. But if such > a treatment isn't performed somewhere > by someone then the quality of the exports > developed will eventually suffer. > > > > > > Still I been asked by a group of people that they > " really " want to > study Chinese medicine and I see that as an semi > privet > endower, giving me more experience to teach and > also some > income which hopefully can be spent on books tapes > and > videos... of CM-TEAM. > > Sounds promising. > > > > > I would love for the class to since day one know > the > nomenclature and even learn medical Chinese BUT I > unfortunately do not know it my self... meaning that > although I am > on to it... > > > > So apart from " being on to it " how can one > introduce it as part > of the course? unfortunately have no idea how to > pronounce yin > from yang... > > I'm going to be meeting with various people > over the coming few weeks to address your > problem, albeit as part of a larger initiative to > develop and provide training materials for > students and doctors outside of the realms of > the so-called developed world. > > Just stay tuned... > > > > > > > Hence I can understand Alons approach of learning > the > meaning of Zheng Qi - Correct Qi within its > historical and social > (contemporary context and so forth) As you indeed > are a > proponent of... The difference is that The real > Chinese part how > to deal with it within the Chinese langue it self is > left out and > hence hinders one from accessing source fountains > and hence > is not enough in the long run. > > Alas! > > > > BUT pretty much what is happening in some ways > here in > Guatemala with some big difference (more about that > later) are > similar to 60-70 USA where not only the idea exist > of knowing > medical Chinese but not also the know How? > > > > So what do you or others suggest? > > It's so simple as to be unbelievable. > > All anyone has to do is start. And all anyone > has to do who wants to start but has no idea > of how to start is to pick up one of the Chinese > Medical Chinese texts and...start. > > And if that doesn't make sense, just contact > me directly. > > > > > > I am torn between various other aspect for example > should > one promote ear acupuncture protocols against drug > addiction > because on one hand it seam to help but there is no > infrastructure of CM thus it would plant the idea > that CM is purely > " techniques " that which makes it hard in the first > place to really > realize its potential (Wiseman " Alternative medicine > Language > neglect in the West by passing a wealth of > knowledge, I can not > remember the actual title). > > > > So on one hand I understand and agree with you Ken > (maybe I > do not understand but at least agree for the time > being with > you...) > > Chinese medical language should be part of any > course > following that what do I do to employ that > awareness? > > We can only do what we can do, amigo. > > > > > > > > Already people in this supposed class inhabited > mainly by > Western doctors i.e. professionals have said we do > not want to > learn Chinese, for someone had the idea that I was > going to > teach Chinese:-) > > > > Marco > > > > BTW, Ken is your e mail address the same? > > use the <editor_caom...> address. > > Ken > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ken: > > > > As always, I am not really all that interested > > in the curricula of the schools other than > > to note, yet again, since you brought it > > up, that these 4,000 hours do tend to exclude > > adequate study of the nomenclature. > > > > > > ..But as you see, we've each got to do the > > particular work of knowing particular terms. > > > > Then and only then will the deeper meanings, > > i.e., the methods of effecting clinical > interventions, > > come clearly into view. > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ===== Anand Bapat Pain Management Specialist Sports Injury Specialist Blacktown, Parramatta, Punchbowl, & Hammondville 0402 472 897 ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? 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