Guest guest Posted September 9, 2003 Report Share Posted September 9, 2003 dear Sharon > > Hi Richard, > There are so many tools in the AP/Moxa/Herb/Cupping tool box. Many are > still hidden as you mentioned about the 2,000 titles untranslated. > > As far as the CM herbs go, I never got out of the kindergarden level, so I > don't even attempt to practice them. > > It struck me though to find master Ap practitioners who have never used > herbs who regularly treat anything and everything. I suspect this is part of > the approach of treating the qi in the meridians. Marco: Whom are they? What do they treat? Any examples PLEASE > > I now find that in some of my treatments I don't actually insert a needle at > all, yet I do contact needling with a teshin, which I find helps to focus > the qi. I do recall thinking at the introduction day to contact needling, > 'Yeah right, I'm going to touch the px with a needle and move qi... " I mean > intention is one thing.... and yet here I find myself, rarely inserting a needle. Marco: Can you explain more? what " extreme " and " non extreme " cases? Diagnosis according To Chinese Eastern medicine? > Px's just keep on teaching us; I had a woman in who had been inappropriately > touched by a massage therapist in her opinion. So I did the contact > needling through her clothes, and it worked. Marco: Agree and fascinating... My reason for the above questions are... Before I came home to Guatemala I worked in a UK hospital and I was probably lazy and my training was inadequate then as now. I love Chinese herbal medicine and was more " hostile " to acumoxa treatment. Now in Guatemala where there are yet no availability of Chinese herbal medicinal I had to re-visit acumoxa and other modalities of Chinese medicine. Beginning to realise how poor and basic my so call formal training was with regard to Chinese medicine as a whole and specific. Thus actually have no real knowing in what can Chinese medicine treat and what can I treat with Chinese medicine that I am aware of as well as my limited understanding. A them that is of outmost importance in Guatemala at least to me is developing a practice that see the patients as little as possible whilst animating people to start taking care of their health via qi gong and self massage and so forth. The reasons are simple there is a huge poverty population in Guatemala people that can not afford about 8 - 9 us dollars a treatment that is let alone for course of treatments. Of course in my home practice see wealthy people but I do not charge more then 8 - 9 us currency because what to not alienate a certain segmentation of the potential treatment population. The very poor the majority I have little chance to actually treat apart from volunteering time at hospital and zone 18 small scale projects which i begining to wonder whather they can be sustianed... (which still is not the very dangerous areas and the most poor...) within the city, Anyway, because I have seen to date all the city folks that practice some form of so call Alternative medicine in Guatemala (apart from some health promoting organisations that unfortunately have no solid foundational studies but do practice with sincerity and desire to reach the general population), Charge extortionate prices and are basically geared towards " high class " although some say they want to " reach " wider population time as money is the motto and hence will not. hence I do not want to fall into same pitfalls although it is nod conducive for buying books... Back to what I really wanted to write about... So I tried using Helm's protocol for > clearing the tendino muscular meridians, using a teshin on the gathering pts > and on the relevant ting pts and surrounding the lesion (sight of pain). It > worked. There is so much more to AP than I could have ever imagined. > Cheers > Sharon Marco: Where can I find more information? sounds interesting... Do you treat a lot of children? I do not have any real experience with children and we really need to develop that aspect of Chinese medicine here in Guatemala hence the following is a Given:-) When are you (and others) coming to Guatemala!!!! Muy buen día a todos... Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Hi Marco, The masters / sensei I am referring to are Japanese Toyohari practitioners, many of whom are blind. They provide summer school in Japan to those people who have completed the basic Toyohari training (both Japanese students and non-Japanese students attend from around the world). Also they travel to parts of the world where a new Toyohari course is being run to teach. Currently courses are available in Europe, Australia, USA and I think soon in NZ. Those who do the course can choose to start up a local Toyhari branch and gain the opportunity to continue their training at the branch level with regular monthly study meetings, to bring in masters there to their branch, and to travel to other workshops anywhere in the world. They treat people. They use the 4 examinations, touch, sight, smell, ask/listening to determine something called a sho, which is the underlying pattern of yin deficiency. The treatment plan tonifies the deficient yin meridian and its mother, treatment is then made on the controlling cycle and then the jacki or evil qi usually cleared from the yang meridians. This is the root treatment. The supportive treatment aims to treat the symptoms using a variety of methods; intradermals, extra vessels, cupping etc etc. Whilst there is strong structure in the treatment process and guidelines in pt selection, there is also a great deal of choice that can be made. The treatment methods and tools for this style and many Japanese styles are illustrated in Birch and Ida, Japanese Acupuncture a Clinical Guide. There are also case studies in this book. I have treated many this way for example, a boy with a long standing diagnosis of glandular fever, a woman with work related stress and some menopausal symptoms, a man with a diagnosis of worst ever shingles the doctor had seen, a dog with epilepsy, woman with sprained ankle etc etc etc. Sometimes I use a number of different styles of AP together, as I am no purist. Perhaps one or more of your wealthier px's could sponsor you to make the trips to attend the weekend toyohari course nearest you?!? I think it is about 20 days all up. There is no formal testing, however attendance is mandatory. Marco, before toyohari, I never did much with pulses, except fast slow full empty etc. That is one of the reasons I liked Manaka style not a big reliance on the pulse..... but in toyohari, you get to feel the pulse when the master makes the needling and your fingers get to learn the tactile feel of the pulse as it is in diagnosis and as it changes in treatment. They have a training method where practitioners take the pulse and tell the practitioner who is finding and then treating the active point what is happening to the pulse. This is a very fast way to gain basic pulse work. So someone is on the radial pulse, the foot pulse, the temple pulse, holding the pulse of another on the radial pulse etc... very good training that I can understand and use in clinic. Joseph Helms is a medical doctor who wrote a book called Acupuncture Energetics, A Clinical Approach for Physicians, 1995 ISBN 1-57250-406-3. good luck Sharon - Marco Chinese Medicine Tuesday, September 09, 2003 10:28 PM Re: Sharon and... dear Sharon > > Hi Richard, > There are so many tools in the AP/Moxa/Herb/Cupping tool box. Many are > still hidden as you mentioned about the 2,000 titles untranslated. > > As far as the CM herbs go, I never got out of the kindergarden level, so I > don't even attempt to practice them. > > It struck me though to find master Ap practitioners who have never used > herbs who regularly treat anything and everything. I suspect this is part of > the approach of treating the qi in the meridians. Marco: Whom are they? What do they treat? Any examples PLEASE > > I now find that in some of my treatments I don't actually insert a needle at > all, yet I do contact needling with a teshin, which I find helps to focus > the qi. I do recall thinking at the introduction day to contact needling, > 'Yeah right, I'm going to touch the px with a needle and move qi... " I mean > intention is one thing.... and yet here I find myself, rarely inserting a needle. Marco: Can you explain more? what " extreme " and " non extreme " cases? Diagnosis according To Chinese Eastern medicine? > Px's just keep on teaching us; I had a woman in who had been inappropriately > touched by a massage therapist in her opinion. So I did the contact > needling through her clothes, and it worked. Marco: Agree and fascinating... My reason for the above questions are... Before I came home to Guatemala I worked in a UK hospital and I was probably lazy and my training was inadequate then as now. I love Chinese herbal medicine and was more " hostile " to acumoxa treatment. Now in Guatemala where there are yet no availability of Chinese herbal medicinal I had to re-visit acumoxa and other modalities of Chinese medicine. Beginning to realise how poor and basic my so call formal training was with regard to Chinese medicine as a whole and specific. Thus actually have no real knowing in what can Chinese medicine treat and what can I treat with Chinese medicine that I am aware of as well as my limited understanding. A them that is of outmost importance in Guatemala at least to me is developing a practice that see the patients as little as possible whilst animating people to start taking care of their health via qi gong and self massage and so forth. The reasons are simple there is a huge poverty population in Guatemala people that can not afford about 8 - 9 us dollars a treatment that is let alone for course of treatments. Of course in my home practice see wealthy people but I do not charge more then 8 - 9 us currency because what to not alienate a certain segmentation of the potential treatment population. The very poor the majority I have little chance to actually treat apart from volunteering time at hospital and zone 18 small scale projects which i begining to wonder whather they can be sustianed... (which still is not the very dangerous areas and the most poor...) within the city, Anyway, because I have seen to date all the city folks that practice some form of so call Alternative medicine in Guatemala (apart from some health promoting organisations that unfortunately have no solid foundational studies but do practice with sincerity and desire to reach the general population), Charge extortionate prices and are basically geared towards " high class " although some say they want to " reach " wider population time as money is the motto and hence will not. hence I do not want to fall into same pitfalls although it is nod conducive for buying books... Back to what I really wanted to write about... So I tried using Helm's protocol for > clearing the tendino muscular meridians, using a teshin on the gathering pts > and on the relevant ting pts and surrounding the lesion (sight of pain). It > worked. There is so much more to AP than I could have ever imagined. > Cheers > Sharon Marco: Where can I find more information? sounds interesting... Do you treat a lot of children? I do not have any real experience with children and we really need to develop that aspect of Chinese medicine here in Guatemala hence the following is a Given:-) When are you (and others) coming to Guatemala!!!! Muy buen día a todos... Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Chinese Medicine , wrote: > Hi Marco, > The masters / sensei I am referring to are Japanese Toyohari practitioners, many of whom are blind. there's quite a bit of TH stuff on my website, http://jabinet.net robert hayden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Hi Robert, What a lovely web page, there is a very pleasant feeling of softness in your presentation which I found very appealing. cheers Sharon - kampo36 Chinese Medicine Wednesday, September 10, 2003 11:04 PM Re: Sharon and... Chinese Medicine , wrote: > Hi Marco, > The masters / sensei I am referring to are Japanese Toyohari practitioners, many of whom are blind. there's quite a bit of TH stuff on my website, http://jabinet.net robert hayden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 hi sharon, do these masters toyohari practitioners come to sydney, australia.. i would be interested in meeting them or attending acourse. thanks anand --- <> wrote: > Hi Marco, > The masters / sensei I am referring to are Japanese > Toyohari practitioners, many of whom are blind. > They provide summer school in Japan to those people > who have completed the basic Toyohari training (both > Japanese students and non-Japanese students attend > from around the world). Also they travel to parts > of the world where a new Toyohari course is being > run to teach. Currently courses are available in > Europe, Australia, USA and I think soon in NZ. > > Those who do the course can choose to start up a > local Toyhari branch and gain the opportunity to > continue their training at the branch level with > regular monthly study meetings, to bring in masters > there to their branch, and to travel to other > workshops anywhere in the world. > > They treat people. They use the 4 examinations, > touch, sight, smell, ask/listening to determine > something called a sho, which is the underlying > pattern of yin deficiency. The treatment plan > tonifies the deficient yin meridian and its mother, > treatment is then made on the controlling cycle and > then the jacki or evil qi usually cleared from the > yang meridians. This is the root treatment. The > supportive treatment aims to treat the symptoms > using a variety of methods; intradermals, extra > vessels, cupping etc etc. Whilst there is strong > structure in the treatment process and guidelines in > pt selection, there is also a great deal of choice > that can be made. > > The treatment methods and tools for this style and > many Japanese styles are illustrated in Birch and > Ida, Japanese Acupuncture a Clinical Guide. There > are also case studies in this book. > > I have treated many this way for example, a boy with > a long standing diagnosis of glandular fever, a > woman with work related stress and some menopausal > symptoms, a man with a diagnosis of worst ever > shingles the doctor had seen, a dog with epilepsy, > woman with sprained ankle etc etc etc. Sometimes I > use a number of different styles of AP together, as > I am no purist. > > Perhaps one or more of your wealthier px's could > sponsor you to make the trips to attend the weekend > toyohari course nearest you?!? I think it is about > 20 days all up. There is no formal testing, however > attendance is mandatory. > > Marco, before toyohari, I never did much with > pulses, except fast slow full empty etc. That is > one of the reasons I liked Manaka style not a big > reliance on the pulse..... but in toyohari, you get > to feel the pulse when the master makes the needling > and your fingers get to learn the tactile feel of > the pulse as it is in diagnosis and as it changes in > treatment. They have a training method where > practitioners take the pulse and tell the > practitioner who is finding and then treating the > active point what is happening to the pulse. This > is a very fast way to gain basic pulse work. So > someone is on the radial pulse, the foot pulse, the > temple pulse, holding the pulse of another on the > radial pulse etc... very good training that I can > understand and use in clinic. > > Joseph Helms is a medical doctor who wrote a book > called Acupuncture Energetics, A Clinical Approach > for Physicians, 1995 ISBN 1-57250-406-3. > > good luck > Sharon > > > > > - > Marco > Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, September 09, 2003 10:28 PM > Re: Sharon and... > > > > dear Sharon > > > > > Hi Richard, > > There are so many tools in the > AP/Moxa/Herb/Cupping tool box. Many are > > still hidden as you mentioned about the 2,000 > titles untranslated. > > > > As far as the CM herbs go, I never got out of > the kindergarden level, so I > > don't even attempt to practice them. > > > > It struck me though to find master Ap > practitioners who have never used > > herbs who regularly treat anything and > everything. I suspect this is part of > > the approach of treating the qi in the > meridians. > > Marco: > > Whom are they? > What do they treat? > Any examples PLEASE > > > > > I now find that in some of my treatments I don't > actually insert a needle at > > all, yet I do contact needling with a teshin, > which I find helps to focus > > the qi. I do recall thinking at the > introduction day to contact needling, > > 'Yeah right, I'm going to touch the px with a > needle and move qi... " I mean > > intention is one thing.... and yet here I find > myself, rarely inserting a needle. > > Marco: > Can you explain more? > what " extreme " and " non extreme " cases? > Diagnosis according To Chinese Eastern medicine? > > > > Px's just keep on teaching us; I had a woman in > who had been inappropriately > > touched by a massage therapist in her opinion. > So I did the contact > > needling through her clothes, and it worked. > > Marco: > Agree and fascinating... My reason for the above > questions are... > > Before I came home to Guatemala I worked in a UK > hospital and I was probably lazy and my training was > inadequate then as now. > I love Chinese herbal medicine and was more > " hostile " to acumoxa treatment. > Now in Guatemala where there are yet no > availability of Chinese herbal medicinal I had to > re-visit acumoxa and other modalities of Chinese > medicine. > > Beginning to realise how poor and basic my so call > formal training was with regard to Chinese medicine > as a whole and specific. Thus actually have no real > knowing in what can Chinese medicine treat and what > can I treat with Chinese medicine that I am aware of > as well as my limited understanding. > > A them that is of outmost importance in Guatemala > at least to me is developing a practice that see the > patients as little as possible whilst animating > people to start taking care of their health via qi > gong and self massage and so forth. The reasons are > simple there is a huge poverty population in > Guatemala people that can not afford about 8 - 9 us > dollars a treatment that is let alone for course of > treatments. > > Of course in my home practice see wealthy people > but I do not charge more then 8 - 9 us currency > because what to not alienate a certain segmentation > of the potential treatment population. The very poor > the majority I have little chance to actually treat > apart from volunteering time at hospital and zone 18 > small scale projects which i begining to wonder > whather they can be sustianed... (which still is not > the very dangerous areas and the most poor...) > within the city, > > Anyway, because I have seen to date all the city > folks that practice some form of so call Alternative > medicine in Guatemala (apart from some health > promoting organisations that unfortunately have no > solid foundational studies but do practice with > sincerity and desire to reach the general > population), Charge extortionate prices and are > basically geared towards " high class " although some > say they want to " reach " wider population time as > money is the motto and hence will not. > > hence I do not want to fall into same pitfalls > although it is nod conducive for buying books... > > Back to what I really wanted to write about... > > > > So I tried using Helm's protocol for > > clearing the tendino muscular meridians, using a > teshin on the gathering pts > > and on the relevant ting pts and surrounding the > lesion (sight of pain). It > > worked. There is so much more to AP than I > could have ever imagined. > > Cheers > > Sharon > > Marco: > > Where can I find more information? > sounds interesting... > > Do you treat a lot of children? > > I do not have any real experience with children > and we really need to develop that aspect of Chinese > medicine here in Guatemala hence the following is a > Given:-) > > When are you (and others) coming to Guatemala!!!! > > Muy buen día a todos... > > Marco > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Hi Anand, I believe the next Toyohari training in Australia will be next year in Melbourne probably starting Jan or Feb. Basic training is I think 20 days. In Australia that tends to be spread over about six months of 3 to 4 day 'weekends'. Cost when I did the course was A$2,500 for the tutition. That's about A$125, per day which is quite reasonable compared to many courses on offer. It may have gone up. Once you have completed your basic training, then you can attend other training. For instance, I will be able to go down to the Melbourne training weekend when one or more the masters will be attending. They don't come for each weekend, mostly that is run by senior practicing local member. I and any other graduates can have the day before the formal teaching with these masters. There is a small fee for attending, however, I can go down at my own expense and help out at the course, which is a great way to review material. I think Melbourne is already booked out, yet let me know if you are serious about attending the course and I will give you contact details. It is not possible to only attend the weekend the Japanese masters or Stephen Birch are teaching. Japanese translators are provided for the masters. cheers Sharon - anand bapat Chinese Medicine Friday, September 12, 2003 8:01 AM Re: Sharon and... hi sharon, do these masters toyohari practitioners come to sydney, australia.. i would be interested in meeting them or attending acourse. thanks anand --- <> wrote: > Hi Marco, > The masters / sensei I am referring to are Japanese > Toyohari practitioners, many of whom are blind. > They provide summer school in Japan to those people > who have completed the basic Toyohari training (both > Japanese students and non-Japanese students attend > from around the world). Also they travel to parts > of the world where a new Toyohari course is being > run to teach. Currently courses are available in > Europe, Australia, USA and I think soon in NZ. > > Those who do the course can choose to start up a > local Toyhari branch and gain the opportunity to > continue their training at the branch level with > regular monthly study meetings, to bring in masters > there to their branch, and to travel to other > workshops anywhere in the world. > > They treat people. They use the 4 examinations, > touch, sight, smell, ask/listening to determine > something called a sho, which is the underlying > pattern of yin deficiency. The treatment plan > tonifies the deficient yin meridian and its mother, > treatment is then made on the controlling cycle and > then the jacki or evil qi usually cleared from the > yang meridians. This is the root treatment. The > supportive treatment aims to treat the symptoms > using a variety of methods; intradermals, extra > vessels, cupping etc etc. Whilst there is strong > structure in the treatment process and guidelines in > pt selection, there is also a great deal of choice > that can be made. > > The treatment methods and tools for this style and > many Japanese styles are illustrated in Birch and > Ida, Japanese Acupuncture a Clinical Guide. There > are also case studies in this book. > > I have treated many this way for example, a boy with > a long standing diagnosis of glandular fever, a > woman with work related stress and some menopausal > symptoms, a man with a diagnosis of worst ever > shingles the doctor had seen, a dog with epilepsy, > woman with sprained ankle etc etc etc. Sometimes I > use a number of different styles of AP together, as > I am no purist. > > Perhaps one or more of your wealthier px's could > sponsor you to make the trips to attend the weekend > toyohari course nearest you?!? I think it is about > 20 days all up. There is no formal testing, however > attendance is mandatory. > > Marco, before toyohari, I never did much with > pulses, except fast slow full empty etc. That is > one of the reasons I liked Manaka style not a big > reliance on the pulse..... but in toyohari, you get > to feel the pulse when the master makes the needling > and your fingers get to learn the tactile feel of > the pulse as it is in diagnosis and as it changes in > treatment. They have a training method where > practitioners take the pulse and tell the > practitioner who is finding and then treating the > active point what is happening to the pulse. This > is a very fast way to gain basic pulse work. So > someone is on the radial pulse, the foot pulse, the > temple pulse, holding the pulse of another on the > radial pulse etc... very good training that I can > understand and use in clinic. > > Joseph Helms is a medical doctor who wrote a book > called Acupuncture Energetics, A Clinical Approach > for Physicians, 1995 ISBN 1-57250-406-3. > > good luck > Sharon > > > > > - > Marco > Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, September 09, 2003 10:28 PM > Re: Sharon and... > > > > dear Sharon > > > > > Hi Richard, > > There are so many tools in the > AP/Moxa/Herb/Cupping tool box. Many are > > still hidden as you mentioned about the 2,000 > titles untranslated. > > > > As far as the CM herbs go, I never got out of > the kindergarden level, so I > > don't even attempt to practice them. > > > > It struck me though to find master Ap > practitioners who have never used > > herbs who regularly treat anything and > everything. I suspect this is part of > > the approach of treating the qi in the > meridians. > > Marco: > > Whom are they? > What do they treat? > Any examples PLEASE > > > > > I now find that in some of my treatments I don't > actually insert a needle at > > all, yet I do contact needling with a teshin, > which I find helps to focus > > the qi. I do recall thinking at the > introduction day to contact needling, > > 'Yeah right, I'm going to touch the px with a > needle and move qi... " I mean > > intention is one thing.... and yet here I find > myself, rarely inserting a needle. > > Marco: > Can you explain more? > what " extreme " and " non extreme " cases? > Diagnosis according To Chinese Eastern medicine? > > > > Px's just keep on teaching us; I had a woman in > who had been inappropriately > > touched by a massage therapist in her opinion. > So I did the contact > > needling through her clothes, and it worked. > > Marco: > Agree and fascinating... My reason for the above > questions are... > > Before I came home to Guatemala I worked in a UK > hospital and I was probably lazy and my training was > inadequate then as now. > I love Chinese herbal medicine and was more > " hostile " to acumoxa treatment. > Now in Guatemala where there are yet no > availability of Chinese herbal medicinal I had to > re-visit acumoxa and other modalities of Chinese > medicine. > > Beginning to realise how poor and basic my so call > formal training was with regard to Chinese medicine > as a whole and specific. Thus actually have no real > knowing in what can Chinese medicine treat and what > can I treat with Chinese medicine that I am aware of > as well as my limited understanding. > > A them that is of outmost importance in Guatemala > at least to me is developing a practice that see the > patients as little as possible whilst animating > people to start taking care of their health via qi > gong and self massage and so forth. The reasons are > simple there is a huge poverty population in > Guatemala people that can not afford about 8 - 9 us > dollars a treatment that is let alone for course of > treatments. > > Of course in my home practice see wealthy people > but I do not charge more then 8 - 9 us currency > because what to not alienate a certain segmentation > of the potential treatment population. The very poor > the majority I have little chance to actually treat > apart from volunteering time at hospital and zone 18 > small scale projects which i begining to wonder > whather they can be sustianed... (which still is not > the very dangerous areas and the most poor...) > within the city, > > Anyway, because I have seen to date all the city > folks that practice some form of so call Alternative > medicine in Guatemala (apart from some health > promoting organisations that unfortunately have no > solid foundational studies but do practice with > sincerity and desire to reach the general > population), Charge extortionate prices and are > basically geared towards " high class " although some > say they want to " reach " wider population time as > money is the motto and hence will not. > > hence I do not want to fall into same pitfalls > although it is nod conducive for buying books... > > Back to what I really wanted to write about... > > > > So I tried using Helm's protocol for > > clearing the tendino muscular meridians, using a > teshin on the gathering pts > > and on the relevant ting pts and surrounding the > lesion (sight of pain). It > > worked. There is so much more to AP than I > could have ever imagined. > > Cheers > > Sharon > > Marco: > > Where can I find more information? > sounds interesting... > > Do you treat a lot of children? > > I do not have any real experience with children > and we really need to develop that aspect of Chinese > medicine here in Guatemala hence the following is a > Given:-) > > When are you (and others) coming to Guatemala!!!! > > Muy buen día a todos... > > Marco > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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