Guest guest Posted September 8, 2003 Report Share Posted September 8, 2003 ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Does anyone have some good online references to the 8 Extra Meridians and how one would use them practically in a treatment? Thanks fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Did you get any answers on this Fred? There are so much more to the 8 extra or curious or extrordinary as they sometimes are called than what I tell you herre.. but I think someone with more experience could give you more information. Sharing my part One way of using them , generally, is to move and regulate the Yang/Yin-balance in the body in 8 different directions inward - outward , up - down, left - right and back - front you move the energy towards the point by sedation and from the point with tonification. Just putting them in (even method) might do the trick through regulation. or use acupressure Examples: KI 6, below the medial malleolus, is the point to move Yin up or down in the body. You can use to move Yin up in order to balance an over-heated upper part (example; a child vith fever and vertigo; acupressure on KI 6 with the intention of Yin flowing up like a river to the head can calm a child quickly and make her head clear again UB 62, on the other side of the foot, below the external malleolus, can move Yang up or down. (to move yang down from head or down in aching legs sedate the point. These points also cross the center of the body and regulates functions there to. PC 5 regulates Yin left-right SJ 5 regulates Yang left-right.. ( example: A man with a left right imbalance in his back. I took his wrist in my hands and put a light pressure on SJ 5 with my thumbs. In less than one minute his back straigtened out. There was more to do for him, but it gives a clear picture of some of the functions. Warmly Holger Holger Från: " Fred Albrecht " <Fred.Albrecht Svara till: Chinese Medicine Datum: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:03:27 +0200 Till: <Chinese Medicine > Ämne: 8 Extra meridians ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Does anyone have some good online references to the 8 Extra Meridians and how one would use them practically in a treatment? Thanks fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Holger You are the only person who responded. Thanks for doing so. My background is in shiatsu, we use finger pressure. What I'm seeing is that you use the regulation points on the extra meridians. We use the points and then also that part of the meridian which is easily palmable and traceable. Besides MAciocia I haven't found any additional notes besides my teacher's. Could you please tell me more? fred Holger Wendt [holger.wendt] 10 September 2003 10:59 PM Chinese Medicine Re: 8 Extra meridians Did you get any answers on this Fred? There are so much more to the 8 extra or curious or extrordinary as they sometimes are called than what I tell you herre.. but I think someone with more experience could give you more information. Sharing my part One way of using them , generally, is to move and regulate the Yang/Yin-balance in the body in 8 different directions inward - outward , up - down, left - right and back - front you move the energy towards the point by sedation and from the point with tonification. Just putting them in (even method) might do the trick through regulation. or use acupressure Examples: KI 6, below the medial malleolus, is the point to move Yin up or down in the body. You can use to move Yin up in order to balance an over-heated upper part (example; a child vith fever and vertigo; acupressure on KI 6 with the intention of Yin flowing up like a river to the head can calm a child quickly and make her head clear again UB 62, on the other side of the foot, below the external malleolus, can move Yang up or down. (to move yang down from head or down in aching legs sedate the point. These points also cross the center of the body and regulates functions there to. PC 5 regulates Yin left-right SJ 5 regulates Yang left-right.. ( example: A man with a left right imbalance in his back. I took his wrist in my hands and put a light pressure on SJ 5 with my thumbs. In less than one minute his back straigtened out. There was more to do for him, but it gives a clear picture of some of the functions. Warmly Holger Holger Från: " Fred Albrecht " <Fred.Albrecht Svara till: Chinese Medicine Datum: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:03:27 +0200 Till: <Chinese Medicine > Ämne: 8 Extra meridians ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Does anyone have some good online references to the 8 Extra Meridians and how one would use them practically in a treatment? Thanks fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 love to have no time at this moment plane leaves in 3 hours and I have to pack. will return next week 'til then Holger Från: " Fred Albrecht " <Fred.Albrecht Svara till: Chinese Medicine Datum: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:49:42 +0200 Till: <Chinese Medicine > Ämne: RE: 8 Extra meridians ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Holger You are the only person who responded. Thanks for doing so. My background is in shiatsu, we use finger pressure. What I'm seeing is that you use the regulation points on the extra meridians. We use the points and then also that part of the meridian which is easily palmable and traceable. Besides MAciocia I haven't found any additional notes besides my teacher's. Could you please tell me more? fred Holger Wendt [holger.wendt] 10 September 2003 10:59 PM Chinese Medicine Re: 8 Extra meridians Did you get any answers on this Fred? There are so much more to the 8 extra or curious or extrordinary as they sometimes are called than what I tell you herre.. but I think someone with more experience could give you more information. Sharing my part One way of using them , generally, is to move and regulate the Yang/Yin-balance in the body in 8 different directions inward - outward , up - down, left - right and back - front you move the energy towards the point by sedation and from the point with tonification. Just putting them in (even method) might do the trick through regulation. or use acupressure Examples: KI 6, below the medial malleolus, is the point to move Yin up or down in the body. You can use to move Yin up in order to balance an over-heated upper part (example; a child vith fever and vertigo; acupressure on KI 6 with the intention of Yin flowing up like a river to the head can calm a child quickly and make her head clear again UB 62, on the other side of the foot, below the external malleolus, can move Yang up or down. (to move yang down from head or down in aching legs sedate the point. These points also cross the center of the body and regulates functions there to. PC 5 regulates Yin left-right SJ 5 regulates Yang left-right.. ( example: A man with a left right imbalance in his back. I took his wrist in my hands and put a light pressure on SJ 5 with my thumbs. In less than one minute his back straigtened out. There was more to do for him, but it gives a clear picture of some of the functions. Warmly Holger Holger Från: " Fred Albrecht " <Fred.Albrecht Svara till: Chinese Medicine Datum: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:03:27 +0200 Till: <Chinese Medicine > Ämne: 8 Extra meridians ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Does anyone have some good online references to the 8 Extra Meridians and how one would use them practically in a treatment? Thanks fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 There is two things here you need to pay attention. One is that the point needs certain amount of time to be stimulated and the second is that you need to have a good understanding of what these points do and how they work in combination. I use these points myself allot and many times as acupressure. There is a difference between shiatsu and acupressure and I would like to know if you know ? Vanessa >> My background is in shiatsu, we use finger pressure. What I'm seeing is that you use the regulation points on the extra meridians. We use the points and then also that part of the meridian which is easily palmable and traceable. Besides MAciocia I haven't found any additional notes besides my teacher's. Could you please tell me more? fred Holger Wendt [holger.wendt] 10 September 2003 10:59 PM Chinese Medicine Re: 8 Extra meridians Did you get any answers on this Fred? There are so much more to the 8 extra or curious or extrordinary as they sometimes are called than what I tell you herre.. but I think someone with more experience could give you more information. Sharing my part One way of using them , generally, is to move and regulate the Yang/Yin-balance in the body in 8 different directions inward - outward , up - down, left - right and back - front you move the energy towards the point by sedation and from the point with tonification. Just putting them in (even method) might do the trick through regulation. or use acupressure Examples: KI 6, below the medial malleolus, is the point to move Yin up or down in the body. You can use to move Yin up in order to balance an over-heated upper part (example; a child vith fever and vertigo; acupressure on KI 6 with the intention of Yin flowing up like a river to the head can calm a child quickly and make her head clear again UB 62, on the other side of the foot, below the external malleolus, can move Yang up or down. (to move yang down from head or down in aching legs sedate the point. These points also cross the center of the body and regulates functions there to. PC 5 regulates Yin left-right SJ 5 regulates Yang left-right.. ( example: A man with a left right imbalance in his back. I took his wrist in my hands and put a light pressure on SJ 5 with my thumbs. In less than one minute his back straigtened out. There was more to do for him, but it gives a clear picture of some of the functions. Warmly Holger Holger Från: " Fred Albrecht " <Fred.Albrecht Svara till: Chinese Medicine Datum: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:03:27 +0200 Till: <Chinese Medicine > Ämne: 8 Extra meridians ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Does anyone have some good online references to the 8 Extra Meridians and how one would use them practically in a treatment? Thanks fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 Hi Fred, You asked for info on line, so I didn't have anything in that way. Try looking at Chasing the Dragon's tail by Manaka, he uses 8 extras as his most common root treatment. He does not tonify or disperse but connects with a cord with a diode which allows for one way current flow. He makes his selection from diagnosis which can be based on palpation of the abdomen, palpation of the master couple pts themselves, asymmetrical gait / movement, and or voiced symptoms. He looks at asymmetry and says this can be corrected via 8 extras. Relates the early divisions of the fertilised egg to the 8 extras... i.e. the first division of the cell into two is the Du/Ren channel... etc.. There is a Matsumoto and Birch book on 8 extra channel rx's only. They trace through the classics what has been written and how different practitioners interpret and work with the 8 extras. Toyohari, use the 10 extras in supportive treatment (as opposed to a root treatment) and treat with copper and nickel tape on discs followed by direct grain size moxa. They use them according to symptoms, i.e. if a side headache use Dia mai yang wei. Van Bureen(sp) also used the 8 extras, and you will probably find his work or practitioners who use his approach in some old journals. Others might know of his work more than I do and be able to more accurate references. Helms in, Acupuncture Energetics, also use them, for instance he relates the Chong mai with endocrine protocols. I think also there is Elizabeth Rostow (sp) who is a European style/based ap system, which I think is part of something called Terrain Acup,.... but don't quote me, it really is not an area I am all that familiar with. Hope this gives you some leads. Regards Sharon - Fred Albrecht Chinese Medicine Friday, September 12, 2003 12:49 AM RE: 8 Extra meridians ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Holger You are the only person who responded. Thanks for doing so. My background is in shiatsu, we use finger pressure. What I'm seeing is that you use the regulation points on the extra meridians. We use the points and then also that part of the meridian which is easily palmable and traceable. Besides MAciocia I haven't found any additional notes besides my teacher's. Could you please tell me more? fred Holger Wendt [holger.wendt] 10 September 2003 10:59 PM Chinese Medicine Re: 8 Extra meridians Did you get any answers on this Fred? There are so much more to the 8 extra or curious or extrordinary as they sometimes are called than what I tell you herre.. but I think someone with more experience could give you more information. Sharing my part One way of using them , generally, is to move and regulate the Yang/Yin-balance in the body in 8 different directions inward - outward , up - down, left - right and back - front you move the energy towards the point by sedation and from the point with tonification. Just putting them in (even method) might do the trick through regulation. or use acupressure Examples: KI 6, below the medial malleolus, is the point to move Yin up or down in the body. You can use to move Yin up in order to balance an over-heated upper part (example; a child vith fever and vertigo; acupressure on KI 6 with the intention of Yin flowing up like a river to the head can calm a child quickly and make her head clear again UB 62, on the other side of the foot, below the external malleolus, can move Yang up or down. (to move yang down from head or down in aching legs sedate the point. These points also cross the center of the body and regulates functions there to. PC 5 regulates Yin left-right SJ 5 regulates Yang left-right.. ( example: A man with a left right imbalance in his back. I took his wrist in my hands and put a light pressure on SJ 5 with my thumbs. In less than one minute his back straigtened out. There was more to do for him, but it gives a clear picture of some of the functions. Warmly Holger Holger Från: " Fred Albrecht " <Fred.Albrecht Svara till: Chinese Medicine Datum: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:03:27 +0200 Till: <Chinese Medicine > Ämne: 8 Extra meridians ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Does anyone have some good online references to the 8 Extra Meridians and how one would use them practically in a treatment? Thanks fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2003 Report Share Posted September 12, 2003 See also " Meridian Style Acupuncture, " by John Pirog for an interesting discussion of how to treat various imbalances using the Eight Extra Meridians. Worth the price of the book (@ $80 for a paperback!) insofar as many theoretical issues of Classical Chinese medicine that are often merely assumed in TCM receive a detailed and articulate explication here. Joe Helms' " Acupuncture Energetics " discusses the Eight Extra Meridians primarily from the perspective of French Meridian Acupuncture. The book is very costly, but IMHO, worth the expense. Another worthwhile book is " Rheumatology in , " which also contains valuable discussion of the Eight Extra Meridians with respect to musculoskeletal issues. Best, Steve Lamade _______________ Send and receive larger attachments with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Vanessa hmmmm, for me accupressure is applying to a pressure point without a needle, whether using a " sharp " stick, fingers, elbow or knees. Shiatsu works on the reset of the meridians as well. (in a nutshell) fred > > [vbirang] > 11 September 2003 08:08 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: 8 Extra meridians > > > > There is two things here you need to pay attention. One is > that the point needs certain amount of time to be stimulated > and the second is that you need to have a good understanding > of what these points do and how they work in combination. > > I use these points myself allot and many times as acupressure. > > There is a difference between shiatsu and acupressure and I > would like to know if you know ? > > Vanessa > > >> > > My background is in shiatsu, we use finger pressure. What > I'm seeing is > that you use the regulation points on the extra meridians. We use the > points and then also that part of the meridian which is > easily palmable and > traceable. Besides MAciocia I haven't found any additional > notes besides my > teacher's. > > Could you please tell me more? > > > fred > > > Holger Wendt [holger.wendt] > 10 September 2003 10:59 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: 8 Extra meridians > > > Did you get any answers on this Fred? > > There are so much more to the 8 extra or curious or > extrordinary as they > sometimes are called than what I tell you herre.. but I think > someone with > more experience could give you more information. > > Sharing my part > > One way of using them , generally, is to move and regulate the > Yang/Yin-balance in the body in 8 different directions > inward - outward , up - down, left - right and back - front > > you move the energy towards the point by sedation and from > the point with > tonification. Just putting them in (even method) might do the > trick through > regulation. or use acupressure > > Examples: > > KI 6, below the medial malleolus, is the point to move Yin up > or down in the > body. You can use to move Yin up in order to balance an > over-heated upper > part > > (example; a child vith fever and vertigo; acupressure on KI 6 with the > intention of Yin flowing up like a river to the head can calm a child > quickly and make her head clear again > > UB 62, on the other side of the foot, below the external > malleolus, can > move Yang up or down. (to move yang down from head or down in > aching legs > sedate the point. These points also cross the center of the body and > regulates functions there to. > > PC 5 regulates Yin left-right SJ 5 regulates Yang left-right.. > ( > example: A man with a left right imbalance in his back. I > took his wrist in > my hands and put a light pressure on SJ 5 with my thumbs. In > less than one > minute his back straigtened out. There was more to do for > him, but it gives > a clear picture of some of the functions. > > Warmly > > Holger > > Holger > > > > Från: " Fred Albrecht " <Fred.Albrecht > Svara till: Chinese Medicine > Datum: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:03:27 +0200 > Till: <Chinese Medicine > > Ämne: 8 Extra meridians > > > ----- > Please visit www.tiscali.co.za > ----- > > Hi > > Does anyone have some good online references to the 8 Extra > Meridians and > how one would use them practically in a treatment? > > Thanks > > > fred > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Stephen Placed on order for " Meridian Style Acupuncture " , and " Acupuncture Energetics " . Thanks fred Stephen Lamade [lhommedieu] 12 September 2003 10:07 PM Chinese Medicine Re: 8 Extra meridians See also " Meridian Style Acupuncture, " by John Pirog for an interesting discussion of how to treat various imbalances using the Eight Extra Meridians. Worth the price of the book (@ $80 for a paperback!) insofar as many theoretical issues of Classical Chinese medicine that are often merely assumed in TCM receive a detailed and articulate explication here. [Fred Albrecht] . Joe Helms' " Acupuncture Energetics " discusses the Eight Extra Meridians primarily from the perspective of French Meridian Acupuncture. The book is very costly, but IMHO, worth the expense. Another worthwhile book is " Rheumatology in , " which also contains valuable discussion of the Eight Extra Meridians with respect to musculoskeletal issues. Best, Steve Lamade _______________ Send and receive larger attachments with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 15, 2003 Report Share Posted September 15, 2003 Hello Fred, Shiatsu is a form of massage that has a rythm as you do it and can as you say follow the meridian pathway. In acupressure the point is single and not many times used with a rythm form, is just to stimulate an specific point for a specific result. The knowledge of the point function is very necessary here as you use in a treatment arrangement. I feel that the difference between Shiatsu and acupressure, is in the knowledge of the point used in a prescription form and the single use of the different points that many times are not in the same meridians for Acupresure and shiatsu as a rythmic form of massage that can be done following a meridian or not, but without the full knowledge of a specific point for the goal of functional stimulation. For example acupressure is considered a form of acupuncture stimulation and within the laws of the profession and shiatsu is not. Do we agree ? If not that is alright. Vanessa Fred Albrecht <Fred.Albrecht wrote: ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Vanessa hmmmm, for me accupressure is applying to a pressure point without a needle, whether using a " sharp " stick, fingers, elbow or knees. Shiatsu works on the reset of the meridians as well. (in a nutshell) fred > > [vbirang] > 11 September 2003 08:08 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: 8 Extra meridians > > > > There is two things here you need to pay attention. One is > that the point needs certain amount of time to be stimulated > and the second is that you need to have a good understanding > of what these points do and how they work in combination. > > I use these points myself allot and many times as acupressure. > > There is a difference between shiatsu and acupressure and I > would like to know if you know ? > > Vanessa > > >> > > My background is in shiatsu, we use finger pressure. What > I'm seeing is > that you use the regulation points on the extra meridians. We use the > points and then also that part of the meridian which is > easily palmable and > traceable. Besides MAciocia I haven't found any additional > notes besides my > teacher's. > > Could you please tell me more? > > > fred > > > Holger Wendt [holger.wendt] > 10 September 2003 10:59 PM > Chinese Medicine > Re: 8 Extra meridians > > > Did you get any answers on this Fred? > > There are so much more to the 8 extra or curious or > extrordinary as they > sometimes are called than what I tell you herre.. but I think > someone with > more experience could give you more information. > > Sharing my part > > One way of using them , generally, is to move and regulate the > Yang/Yin-balance in the body in 8 different directions > inward - outward , up - down, left - right and back - front > > you move the energy towards the point by sedation and from > the point with > tonification. Just putting them in (even method) might do the > trick through > regulation. or use acupressure > > Examples: > > KI 6, below the medial malleolus, is the point to move Yin up > or down in the > body. You can use to move Yin up in order to balance an > over-heated upper > part > > (example; a child vith fever and vertigo; acupressure on KI 6 with the > intention of Yin flowing up like a river to the head can calm a child > quickly and make her head clear again > > UB 62, on the other side of the foot, below the external > malleolus, can > move Yang up or down. (to move yang down from head or down in > aching legs > sedate the point. These points also cross the center of the body and > regulates functions there to. > > PC 5 regulates Yin left-right SJ 5 regulates Yang left-right.. > ( > example: A man with a left right imbalance in his back. I > took his wrist in > my hands and put a light pressure on SJ 5 with my thumbs. In > less than one > minute his back straigtened out. There was more to do for > him, but it gives > a clear picture of some of the functions. > > Warmly > > Holger > > Holger > > > > Från: " Fred Albrecht " <Fred.Albrecht > Svara till: Chinese Medicine > Datum: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 10:03:27 +0200 > Till: <Chinese Medicine > > Ämne: 8 Extra meridians > > > ----- > Please visit www.tiscali.co.za > ----- > > Hi > > Does anyone have some good online references to the 8 Extra > Meridians and > how one would use them practically in a treatment? > > Thanks > > > fred > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 16, 2003 Report Share Posted September 16, 2003 ----- Please visit www.tiscali.co.za ----- Hi Vanessa [vbirang] Monday, September 15, 2003 8:09 PM Chinese Medicine RE: 8 Extra meridians Hello Fred, Shiatsu is a form of massage that has a rythm as you do it and can as you say follow the meridian pathway. fred: yep. In acupressure the point is single and not many times used with a rythm form, is just to stimulate an specific point for a specific result. fred: yep. In shiatsu we also make sure (as far as we can by tracing) that the rest of the meridian is not blocked. The knowledge of the point function is very necessary here as you use in a treatment arrangement. fred: yep. My teacher would fail us if he suspected that we do not know what our points mean. I feel that the difference between Shiatsu and acupressure, is in the knowledge of the point used in a prescription form and the single use of the different points that many times are not in the same meridians for Acupresure and shiatsu as a rythmic form of massage that can be done following a meridian or not, but without the full knowledge of a specific point for the goal of functional stimulation. fred: In the form of shiatsu that I practice we use the same pressure points on the same meridians as what acupunturists use, and we have to know what the points mean. We do not use needles, rather fingers, elbows and knees. We include many stretches and palming and tracing along the meridians. For example acupressure is considered a form of acupuncture stimulation and within the laws of the profession and shiatsu is not. Do we agree ? fred: I'm not sure. Although I would not classify shiatsu as acupuncure, the are very diiferent as a therapy, but they use the same TCM theory (as far as I was taught). If not that is alright. fred: yep ;D fred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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