WM, TCM and Immunity [was Negative thoughts 'make you ill']

[Guest guest]

Hi All, & Hi Attilio

 

Attilio wrote:

> ... LU... is related to the immune system in TCM ... grief causes

> LU Qi Xu. Negative thought relates more to SP. Excessive thought

> causes SP Qi Xu, Qi Xu & Xue Xu and lack of nourishment to the

> whole body and Zangfu. SP is also mother of LU and may affect

> LU/immune system in that way. Negativity also can relate to LV, as

> negativity in itself is a form of anger. This will also lead to LV

> Qi Stasis or LV Yang Rising. LV Qi Stasis can cause depression

> whilst LV Yang Rising can flare up and burn LU (injury the immune

> system). What do others think?

 

In western medicine (WM), allergic reactions [for example food

allergies/intolerance] can take place in ANY tissue (including brain,

ears and eyes) - not just the LU, gut & skin! WM sees many facets

in the immune system:

 

1. In the BLOOD: humoral immunity, immunoglobulins, IgA, IgM,

etc, interferon, prostaglandins, cytokines, complement,

lymphocytes, T-cells, B-cells, macrophages, NK cells, etc.

 

2. In and/or on the tissues: lungs, gut, skin, joints, brain, liver, etc,

etc.

 

3. Stress (exposure, bereavement, surgery, anaesthesia,

chemotherapy, radiation, etc) compromises the immune system.

 

4. There is an anatomically derfined IMMUNOREGULATION centre

in the midbrain.

 

5. The ANS [autonomic nervous system] and the ACTH/opiate

system is closely involved with immunoregulation.

 

IMO, ALL of the 12 Main Channels/Organs relate to the immune

system! They do so via their Channel Effects, Organ Effects,

effects on local microcirculation, the autonomic nervous system,

etc, etc. IMO, a healthy organ has a healthy local defence!

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

WWW :

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

[Guest guest]

5. The ANS [autonomic nervous system] and the ACTH/opiate

system is closely involved with immunoregulation.

 

Could you explain a little about how, in what way please Phil? I had always

assumed the immune problems in Cushings for instance were due to the

suppressive effects of cortisol?

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Inflammatory/adrenal/stress mediators can affect pain perception and immune

function as beta-endorphin levels can be affected by ACTH. This is because ACTH

can antagonize the enzyme cleavage from a large, precursor, pro-opiomelancortin,

which may be one explanation why needle insertion can stimulate endorphins.

 

Alon

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well said Phil.

 

Thanks for enlightening me on this subject.

 

Attilio

 

Chinese Medicine , " "

<@e...> wrote:

> Hi All, & Hi Attilio

>

> Attilio wrote:

> > ... LU... is related to the immune system in TCM ... grief causes

> > LU Qi Xu. Negative thought relates more to SP. Excessive thought

> > causes SP Qi Xu, Qi Xu & Xue Xu and lack of nourishment to the

> > whole body and Zangfu. SP is also mother of LU and may affect

> > LU/immune system in that way. Negativity also can relate to LV,

as

> > negativity in itself is a form of anger. This will also lead to

LV

> > Qi Stasis or LV Yang Rising. LV Qi Stasis can cause depression

> > whilst LV Yang Rising can flare up and burn LU (injury the immune

> > system). What do others think?

>

> In western medicine (WM), allergic reactions [for example food

> allergies/intolerance] can take place in ANY tissue (including

brain,

> ears and eyes) - not just the LU, gut & skin! WM sees many facets

> in the immune system:

>

> 1. In the BLOOD: humoral immunity, immunoglobulins, IgA, IgM,

> etc, interferon, prostaglandins, cytokines, complement,

> lymphocytes, T-cells, B-cells, macrophages, NK cells, etc.

>

> 2. In and/or on the tissues: lungs, gut, skin, joints, brain,

liver, etc,

> etc.

>

> 3. Stress (exposure, bereavement, surgery, anaesthesia,

> chemotherapy, radiation, etc) compromises the immune system.

>

> 4. There is an anatomically derfined IMMUNOREGULATION centre

> in the midbrain.

>

> 5. The ANS [autonomic nervous system] and the ACTH/opiate

> system is closely involved with immunoregulation.

>

> IMO, ALL of the 12 Main Channels/Organs relate to the immune

> system! They do so via their Channel Effects, Organ Effects,

> effects on local microcirculation, the autonomic nervous system,

> etc, etc. IMO, a healthy organ has a healthy local defence!

>

>

> Best regards,

>

>

> WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4,

Ireland

> WWW :

> Email: <@e...>

> Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

>

> HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

> WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

> Email: <@e...>

> Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

[Guest guest]

Hi All, & Hi Jackie,

 

Phil wrote:

> 5. The ANS [autonomic nervous system] and the ACTH/opiate system is

> closely involved with immunoregulation.

 

Jackie replied:

> Could you explain a little about how, in what way please Phil? I

> had always assumed the immune problems in Cushings for instance

> were due to the suppressive effects of cortisol?

 

As one of its many functions, the ANS controls microcirculation,

BP and cell membrane permeability. Apart from electrical

potentials across cell membranes, movement of large molecules

through cell membranes depends on membrane permeability.

 

As transfer of antibodies & immune-mediators to where they are

needed depends on blood circulation and appropriate BPs, the

ANS is crucial in an efficient immune response. The ANS is also

involved in hormonal regulation.

 

In a working, living Whole, EACH part depends on each other part,

including the ANS & endocrine systems.

 

So I do not attribute the immune system to any ONE Channel-

Organ System; ALL 12 Main Channels [and the immunoregulation

centre in the midbrain, the ANS, the endocrine system, the

inflammatory response, etc] are involved in the body's Defence

System, i.e. in resistance to attack / immunoregulation.

 

Furthermore, good nutrition [esp adequate inputs of antioxidants,

trace-elements [Cu, Se, I, Zn, Cr etc] and vitamins [esp Vit A, C

and E], and practices to Calm Shen [meditation, etc] and Direct Qi

[Qigong, Taiqi, etc] are involved in defending the body.

 

Best regards,

 

 

WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

WWW :

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

[Guest guest]

>So I do not attribute the immune system to any ONE Channel-

>Organ System; ALL 12 Main Channels [and the immunoregulation

>centre in the midbrain, the ANS, the endocrine system, the

>inflammatory response, etc] are involved in the body's Defence

>System, i.e. in resistance to attack / immunoregulation.

 

Right - I can see where the circulation is crucial and greatly influenced by

the ANS, it was the influence of ACTH itself on immunoregulation that I have

never seen specified - I am think of the Cushings cases of course?

 

>Furthermore, good nutrition [esp adequate inputs of antioxidants,

>trace-elements [Cu, Se, I, Zn, Cr etc] and vitamins [esp Vit A, C

>and E], and practices to Calm Shen [meditation, etc] and Direct Qi

>[Qigong, Taiqi, etc] are involved in defending the body.

 

For sure - anti-oxidents ever moreso I think.

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Hi Phil

 

>

> As one of its many functions, the ANS controls microcirculation,

> BP and cell membrane permeability. Apart from electrical

> potentials across cell membranes, movement of large molecules

> through cell membranes depends on membrane permeability.

 

Also primarily through interstitial fluids better knwon as the Extra Cellular

matrix.

 

>

> As transfer of antibodies & immune-mediators to where they are

> needed depends on blood circulation and appropriate BPs, the

> ANS is crucial in an efficient immune response. The ANS is also

> involved in hormonal regulation.

 

 

Again not only through blood circulation...let's not leave out ECM.

 

>

> In a working, living Whole, EACH part depends on each other part,

> including the ANS & endocrine systems.

> So I do not attribute the immune system to any ONE Channel-

> Organ System; ALL 12 Main Channels [and the immunoregulation

> centre in the midbrain, the ANS, the endocrine system, the

> inflammatory response, etc] are involved in the body's Defence

> System, i.e. in resistance to attack / immunoregulation.

 

And this defense system is the ECM.

And the channels connecting to the organs via this ECM system is in fact the

acupuncture channels.

 

>

> Furthermore, good nutrition [esp adequate inputs of antioxidants,

> trace-elements [Cu, Se, I, Zn, Cr etc] and vitamins [esp Vit A, C

> and E], and practices to Calm Shen [meditation, etc] and Direct Qi

> [Qigong, Taiqi, etc] are involved in defending the body.

 

All affecting the fluids and forces in and of the whole being THROUGH the

channels.

Richard