Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Richard, I am not aware of all of your history nor am i aware of all of the correspondance between you and David M. I am in agreement with you on some points and not on others. I for one would rather see you stick around this forum since a variety of ideas enriches us all. Doc True security must be rooted in true and complete social, economic and environmental justice for everyone everywhere with no exceptions. Anything else is an illusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Doc And I am not aware of yours either....and we do agree and disagree on certain points but at least there is a give and take and a respect. As to definitions....see what the dictionary says about 'doctor'. Also look up some older dictionaries including medical ones....about the definition of allopathic medicine or allopathy. Quite informatiove. The one I had said that allopathy is a group of modalities which ANTAGONISTICALLY seeks to suppress symptoms as opposed to homeopathic remedies. (My comment is....it doesn't ever mention anything about CURING). Interesting root philosophy, ey? Thats why in many areas of the US and the world it is ILLEGAL to say you 'cure' anything. And they (allopathic establishment) don;t even know the meaning of CURE. Check it out. It comes from the latin root curare which means to 'take care of' .....like the curator of a museum. Richard > Richard, > I am not aware of all of your history nor am i aware of all of the > correspondance between you and David M. > I am in agreement with you on some points and not on others. > I for one would rather see you stick around this forum since a variety of > ideas enriches us all. > Doc > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Here again Doc....a great statement. It is interesting that I do NOT seek to stiffle anyone elses beliefs....so WHY are there those who would love shut-up me up? The answer is obvious. Many of those speak about the supposed democratic way but they only want a dictatorship-style democracy. The kind where ONLY their way is THE way and everyone else MUST follow their orders. Also very interesting when the light is shined on that attitude. And their silence SHOWS exactly what they represent. As many famous have said....either you are with us or you are against us...there is NO in between. And therein is- at root- is key part of what I fight for. Justice for all. Richard > True security must be rooted in true and complete social, economic and > environmental justice for everyone everywhere with no exceptions. Anything else > is an illusion. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 acudoc11 wrote: >Here again Doc....a great statement.< Thanks, It is a quote from me used )of course) with my permission ;-) > True security must be rooted in true and complete social, economic and > environmental justice for everyone everywhere with no exceptions. Anything else > is an illusion.< True security must be rooted in true and complete social, economic and environmental justice for everyone everywhere with no exceptions. Anything else is an illusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 'doctor' >>>>Doctor has never been a real issue. Its physician that is. I do not know why MD and DOs think they own the term physician, there must be some kind legal question to be resolved Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 This is sad but true and a great statement by Richard. We see this in our group very well, a silence that mirrors the acceptance of the easier way out. Vanessa Richard wrote it: >>Also very interesting when the light is shined on that attitude. And their silence SHOWS exactly what they represent. As many famous have said....either you are with us or you are against us...there is NO in between. And therein is- at root- is key part of what I fight for. Justice for all. Richard > True security must be rooted in true and complete social, economic and > environmental justice for everyone everywhere with no exceptions. Anything else > is an illusion. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 You are correct Alon. That was ONE of the two costly challenges here in Florida where we beat their pants-off and it was all about the word 'physician'. Allopaths want everyone to believe that they have a property right to that word and it's meaning which just isn;t true. It's one of the last bastions that they think will allow them to hold on to over-control. As a matter of fact if you'all go and read the Case Law on AOMNC website (this is not a plug for any commercialism but for FACTS.... <A HREF= " www.aomnc.com " >www.aomnc.com</A> ) you will see that the Administrative Law Judge dealt with that issue appropriately even though she didn't let them get to first base on what is called 'standing'. Richard > 'doctor' > >>>>Doctor has never been a real issue. Its physician that is. I do not know > why MD and DOs think they own the term physician, there must be some kind > legal question to be resolved > Alon > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Hi All, Doc wrote: > Richard, I am not aware of all of your history nor am i aware of > all of the correspondance between you and David M. I am in > agreement with you on some points and not on others. I for one > would rather see you stick around this forum since a variety of > ideas enriches us all. Doc Richard, many of us see the value of your efforts and few of us would have the stamina to pursue the hard slog to change minds by political methods. Hang in there. Best regards, WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland WWW : Email: < Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm Email: < Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Hi Phil, Doc, Attilio, Anand, Vanessa and all others I have grown to know as friends and colleagues over the years. I really do appreciate even the verbal support as it is one heck of a hard slog as Phil refers to so endearingly.....but just you wait.....the hard work is about to pay off. As soon as I see the Class Action lawsuit is filed....I'll let you all know. Regards, Richard A.Freiberg, OMD, NMD Founder/Director AOMNC http://www.aomnc.com > Subj:Re: Richard > Date:9/5/03 6:22:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time > <A HREF= " " ></A> > Reply-to:<A HREF= " Chinese Medicine " >Traditional_Chinese_M\ edicine </A> > To:<A HREF= " Chinese Medicine " >Traditional_Chinese_M\ edicine </A> > Sent from the Internet > > > > Hi All, > > Doc wrote: > > Richard, I am not aware of all of your history nor am i aware of > > all of the correspondance between you and David M. I am in > > agreement with you on some points and not on others. I for one > > would rather see you stick around this forum since a variety of > > ideas enriches us all. Doc > > Richard, many of us see the value of your efforts and few of us > would have the stamina to pursue the hard slog to change minds > by political methods. > > Hang in there. > Best regards, > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 we are waiting with abated breath & we wish you the best of luck from all of us & the pt community. i am sure we are going to succeed. when is the question. give us the big(BIG) news sooner. anand --- acudoc11 wrote: > Hi Phil, Doc, Attilio, Anand, Vanessa and all others > I have grown to know as > friends and colleagues over the years. > > I really do appreciate even the verbal support as it > is one heck of a hard > slog as Phil refers to so endearingly.....but just > you wait.....the hard work is > about to pay off. As soon as I see the Class Action > lawsuit is filed....I'll > let you all know. > > Regards, > Richard A.Freiberg, OMD, NMD > Founder/Director AOMNC > http://www.aomnc.com > > > > > Subj:Re: Richard > > Date:9/5/03 6:22:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time > > <A > HREF= " " ></A> > > Reply-to:<A > HREF= " Chinese Medicine " >Traditional_Chinese_M\ edicine </A> > > To:<A > HREF= " Chinese Medicine " >Traditional_Chinese_M\ edicine </A> > > Sent from the Internet > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > Doc wrote: > > > Richard, I am not aware of all of your history > nor am i aware of > > > all of the correspondance between you and David > M. I am in > > > agreement with you on some points and not on > others. I for one > > > would rather see you stick around this forum > since a variety of > > > ideas enriches us all. Doc > > > > Richard, many of us see the value of your efforts > and few of us > > would have the stamina to pursue the hard slog to > change minds > > by political methods. > > > > Hang in there. > > Best regards, > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > ===== Anand Bapat Pain Management Specialist Sports Injury Specialist Blacktown, Parramatta, Punchbowl, & Hammondville 0402 472 897 ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 Anand I wish I could divulge more but I must wait until it is filed. What I can tell you is that I actually already hold in my hand the almost final draft of over 41 pages. Regards, Richard > we are waiting with abated breath & we wish you the > best of luck from all of us & the pt community. i am > sure we are going to succeed. when is the question. > give us the big(BIG) news sooner. > anand > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2003 Report Share Posted September 9, 2003 Dear Richard, sorry to ask you again but... Could you explain a bit more about the combine treatment modality Gua Sha/BaGuan? I mean some theoretical-practical aspects? When to use it? and so forth... Because it seams like something that could be very cost effective here in Guatemala? I have started to use some of scrapping and cupping as homework treatment for patients but... My understanding of the two are very limited and superficial and like to genially now more like I said if it works as a specific treatment and all-round treatment (depending on many factors I am sure) it would be very cost effective in some and /or many situations. There are many places in Guatemala where there is no formal healthcare. Places where there are promoters de salud which are local persons that have some form of capacitation some have more then others. Of course there are Maya priests and healers in some places, birth attendance but all the above have very little formal education (apart from Maya priests -healers that may have linage-family transmissions of knowledge). EITHERWAY can you elaborate on your treatments some case histories what to expect what to treat? Or why just not come to Guatemala?:-) Can I use this in the rehabilitation canter, stroke and accidents and shouts wounds..., as home treatments to revive the channels and collaterals? Marco - acudoc11 Chinese Medicine Tuesday, September 09, 2003 1:40 AM Re: Regulation in the UK - competing proposals Sharon Now consider what GuaSha/BaGuan can do when and if one needs to go beyond teshin. The qi level, intention level, and the like.....would be more considered yang treatment. But when it comes to a necessary (more often than not) the yin treatment.......there is nothing better than BaGuaFa. Needles or herbs or moxa or whatever can NOT move the yin stagnation as well. Help? Sure. But not as effective. The old cliche...to a hammer everything looks like a nail. Therefore I have been able to do with BaGuaFa what another cannot....in part because I have been doing it so many years. Each to his/her own. Yes......those APs who use only needles are working in the yang or qi aspect of the meridians...for sure. Helms barely scratches the surface.....yet it is true. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 9, 2003 Report Share Posted September 9, 2003 Hi marco I would love to come to Guatemala and share this experiential knowledge. You are correct that it can be used in places where there might be no formal healthcare. It can also be used - exceptionally well - in places of the world where there is the MOST sophisticated healthcare. And practitioners do not have to be acupuncturists or oriental medically trained. It might help in understanding certain issues but not functionally mandated. OK - here goes a very basic set of premises. 1) there is no such thing as ONLY 'qi' or 'de qi' or only neuropathways in living beings such as humans and animals. 2) Approximately 80% of our body consists of fluids whcih flow through (guess what) channels by various forces. 3) Fluids - along with qi - primarily flow through five + main areas of the body. (spinal column, joints, organs, blood vessels/system, lymp vessels/system, and the most prolific is through the interstitial tissues....in other words around, under, and over every muscle, bone, organ and in every nook and cranny). 4) Fluids tend to stagnate in those areas. 5) stagnation causes pain 6) I call that fluid stagnation -> sludge (we won't go into here just how or under what conditions sludge forms) 7) Gua Sha and Ba Guan - used together can break up the sludge which then enables the lymph system to break it down and move it out as with any other kind of bruising in the body. This is sooo cost saving that for just Carpal Tunnel Syndrome alone...the US could save about $20 Billion dollars annually out of approximately $24 Billion being spent on the mostly useless and barbaric surgical and other interventions ....and that's being kind to the numbers. Humor me....and Imagine for a moment - if I am correct - what this could do for just about every other myofascial or osteofascial pain syndrome? Savings could be in the hundreds of billions of dollars. And I have found by 9 years of over 10,000 treatment visits of real experience that there are other organ dysfunctional rebalancing which can and does takes place. But something out there wishes to forbid this. So until there are enough who wish to see with their eyes and realize in real-time.....I guess it's just myself and a few others locally I have trained. I would love to share it.....but what is needed is 1 weekend and enough practitioners to be interested. Regards, Richard > Dear Richard, > > sorry to ask you again but... > > Could you explain a bit more about the combine treatment modality Gua > Sha/BaGuan? > > I mean some theoretical-practical aspects? > When to use it? > > and so forth... > > Because it seams like something that could be very cost effective here in > Guatemala? > > I have started to use some of scrapping and cupping as homework treatment > for patients but... > > My understanding of the two are very limited and superficial and like to > genially now more like I said if it works as a specific treatment and all-round > treatment (depending on many factors I am sure) it would be very cost > effective in some and /or many situations. > > There are many places in Guatemala where there is no formal healthcare. > Places where there are promoters de salud which are local persons that have some > form of capacitation some have more then others. Of course there are Maya > priests and healers in some places, birth attendance but all the above have very > little formal education (apart from Maya priests -healers that may have > linage-family transmissions of knowledge). > > EITHERWAY can you elaborate on your treatments some case histories what to > expect what to treat? > > Or why just not come to Guatemala?:-) > > Can I use this in the rehabilitation canter, stroke and accidents and shouts > wounds..., as home treatments to revive the channels and collaterals? > > Marco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Marco I have a little bit more time this evening after some legal work....lol > Could you explain a bit more about the combine treatment modality Gua > Sha/BaGuan? I mean some theoretical-practical aspects? > When to use it? One of the few times that it can not be used is in true fibromyalgia or what can be referred to as 'dry muscle syndrome'. BaGuaFa would give a short relief for maybe 1-2 hours and then a rebound exacerbation of pain beyond belief. Other times when it should not be used are more easily seen such as in excessive spleen deficiency like when you see a patient who is flabby, white - pale, weak energy, weak blood....this kind of patient does not do well often almost passing out. The majority of best case scenarios are those of stagnation....all kinds of stagnation. > > Can I use this in the rehabilitation canter, stroke and accidents and shouts > wounds..., as home treatments to revive the channels and collaterals? > Absolutely som eof my earlier cases were in stroke. Several I remember very clearly because one was my wife's aunt (86 y/o). and another was an orthopedic surgeon (81 y/o). My wife's aunt asked me after 1 1/2 years past her stroke whether I would treat her instead of the massages she was getting three times per week. And so i travelled 1 hour one way 3x week to treat her. At first because she had a slight hemiplegia, slight speech slur, slight - like exopthalmia....I thought i would use acupuncture needles. Her tissues were so weak and thin in the typical areas that I decided against it and use very light GuaSha which I call QiSha. Of course I used formulas for stroke. I also noticed that both big toe nails were like all full of fungus. I never worked on her lower extremities. After 6 months, she had better use of the left side hemiplegic limbs (more strength), no speech slur, eyes relaxed in her head. The 81 y/o orthopod after 9 months out from the stroke.....I visited him and he was slumped over in the rehab facility sitting in a wheelchair in front of a TV. I swear` I could have hammered a 6 penny nail into him and he would not have reacted. His whole body was full of mucus. Hacking wet cough/congestion in lungs, drooling from his mouth, dripping from his eyes and nostrils. No wonder he wasn;t aware of anything going on around him. His mind and body was encased in dampness of the worst kind. Oh....and his family MD told me the facility evaluated him with global aphasia from the stroke sequela. Couldn't speak or swallow. I heard him with my own ears coughing away. Vocal cords sounded better than most of us. I suggested to the family MD that I would have herbal formulas made into liquid but he would have to write the script for the nurses to administer. Besides not being able to write Rx in these facilities - I didn;t want him spitting back at me the disgusting tasting formula I was going to make for him. The first treatment I used some scalp needles just to see the effects and get the lay of the land - so to speak. From the second treatment on..... I ONLY used GuaSha and no cupping because I wasn;t into the combined therapy at that time. On the 4th visit, he was in bed...so I sat down to talk with him. He was a cuban national besides being an allopath who probably hated the fact that a mere acupuncturist was treating him in a medical facility. Will wonders ever cease. After chatting for 20 minutes I told him it was time for his acupuncture treatment. He gave me the nastiest evil-eye and grabbed my hand with his good one and shook his head from side to side. I looked around to make sure no one was there and I cannot tell you why I said what I said....but it came out of my mouth anyway. Sorry - i don;t mean for anyone here to get upset with the language. So I told him....'you old son of a bitch.....I know you can talk, and you know you can talk....sooooo if you reach down deep and draw upon your energy and you want me to LEAVE....tell me the word NO and I will leave'. I knew he could vocalize...I just didn;t know if the brain signals would allow it to be clear. In other words I had no idea if there was brain damage. He clearly did not want me there and he said NO and it was clear as day. By the eleventh week he was chattering like a monkey in the trees. Using his good hand to wheel his wheel chair around the complex eating and swallowing quite well. Besides the herbal formulas I worked the spasms and stagnation out of his neck thereby realeasing his swallow mechanism. You follow the standard protocol for needles for stroke....and you accomplish 100 times the benefit of needling...(my opinion and experience). Accidents are also excellent patients. My dear friend and ex-Speaker of the Florida House of Representatives....was in an auto accident two years hair line fracturing 6 ribs and left scapula...no bone displacement. The idiots in the hospital were only interested in exhausting all of his auto personal injury protection money and then threw him out of the facility. By fate i was nearby and drove he and his wife back to Ft lauderdale, Florida. His initial primary complaint was back muscle spasms which I proceeded to immediately stop by BaGuaFa. Th ehopsital idiots did not have him move his bowels for those four days so of course I gave him some purging formulas. I worked on him 2x/day for three days and 1x/day for three days....all consecutive and fixed an old rotator cuff injury in the opposite shoulder. His quote is that by these techniques....he healed in 90% less time. Gun shot wounds......I must admit that I have no experience with these techniques but if you use common sense....and caution...you can never go wrong. Hope this gives you a beginning idea of what can be accomplished. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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