Guest guest Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 Ok, i'm gonna start the ball rolling on this hot topic. Has anyone had a chance to examine any of their patients who are on the Atkins diet? Have their syndrome changed since starting the diet? I'm interested to know how this diet is affecting the Zangfu. Is it causing Spleen Qi deficiency, phlegm? Does anyone know? Attilio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2003 Report Share Posted September 1, 2003 >I'm interested to know how this diet is affecting the Zangfu. Is it >causing Spleen Qi deficiency, phlegm? Do you suspect that it would because it tends to be high in fat?? The theory is it does not because the lack of carbs/insulin 'buck the system'. It'll be interesting to hear. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 I was thinking of the extra meat consumption causing extra stress upon the spleen leading to spleen qi deficiency. Meat may also cause heat and full fat cream will cause damp. All that together could spell a bad case of damp-heat. We’ll have to wait and see if this is correct when someone notices the differences in their patients who are undertaking the Atkins diet. Attilio jackie <Jackie wrote: >I'm interested to know how this diet is affecting the Zangfu. Is it >causing Spleen Qi deficiency, phlegm? Do you suspect that it would because it tends to be high in fat?? The theory is it does not because the lack of carbs/insulin 'buck the system'. It'll be interesting to hear. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 For what it's worth, a bit of personal experience: my partner and I have been doing the Atkins diet for 10 months, carefully following instructions (induction diet for 2 wks, weight loss for 5 mo, maintenence since then, good vit/min supplement, moderate exercise). Can't speak for my pulses (I'm the practitioner), but hers have increased in volume and improved in quality rather astonishingly. Blood deficiency is much less. My theory is that it's less dairy that causes damp/phlegm and more refined flours and sugars. Will watch for Spleen stress, but I've certainly noticed increased stamina and clearer thinking. And appropriate almost painless weight loss. Haven't had my cholesterol level checked, but that's more for political reasons than medical. Of importance: we'd both struggled for years to lose weight, were pretty good about keeping fat out of the diet, and loved our pasta/rice/potatos. Sort vegetarian - rarely ate meat, and then not red meat. She's extremely active, I'm moderately so. In spite of all, not only did we not lose weight, we were slowly gaining. Giving up the starchy stuff was painless and we no longer craved food any food. Over time, meal sizes have also decreased. And the only difference between the Atkins maintenence diet and the more 'traditional' meat/potato/2 veg is no potato. Almost impossible for vegetarians. And here's a question: if many people are Blood deficient (esp women), and the best way to make blood is from food, best of that from protein and best of that from meat, how do we help the patients who refuse to eat meat? karen Attilio D'Alberto wrote: > > I was thinking of the extra meat consumption causing extra stress upon > the spleen leading to spleen qi deficiency. Meat may also cause heat > and full fat cream will cause damp. All that together could spell a > bad case of damp-heat. > > > > We'll have to wait and see if this is correct when someone notices the > differences in their patients who are undertaking the Atkins diet. > > > > Attilio > > > > > jackie <Jackie wrote: > > >I'm interested to know how this diet is affecting the Zangfu. Is it > >causing Spleen Qi deficiency, phlegm? > > Do you suspect that it would because it tends to be high in fat?? The > theory > is it does not because the lack of carbs/insulin 'buck the system'. > > It'll be interesting to hear. > > Jackie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 For what it's worth, a bit of personal experience: my partner and I have been doing the Atkins diet for 10 months, carefully following instructions (induction diet for 2 wks, weight loss for 5 mo, maintenence since then, good vit/min supplement, moderate exercise). Can't speak for my pulses (I'm the practitioner), but hers have increased in volume and improved in quality rather astonishingly. Blood deficiency is much less. >>>>>Same here. If blood lipids is a kind of phlegm than i have less phlegm. I think we have to think about genetic background. CM was developed in a totally different genetic population than Europeans. Perhaps that is the cause of difference. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 Hi Attilio, I was wondering how you equate meat consumption to stress upon the slpeen? The meat protein is broken down by the stomach acid. Meat is digested often within a few hours where as non-meat can take days. The deconstruction of lipids is also fairly simple in chemical terms, perhaps there is a difference in the nature of dampness depending on the nature of the lipids. Perhaps the polyunsaturated fats and the trans fatty acids of margarine, which I suspect are man made and hence new to the digestive system by only decades, prove a problem. regards Sharon - Attilio D'Alberto Chinese Medicine Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:27 PM Re: Atkins diet I was thinking of the extra meat consumption causing extra stress upon the spleen leading to spleen qi deficiency. Meat may also cause heat and full fat cream will cause damp. All that together could spell a bad case of damp-heat. We'll have to wait and see if this is correct when someone notices the differences in their patients who are undertaking the Atkins diet. Attilio jackie <Jackie wrote: >I'm interested to know how this diet is affecting the Zangfu. Is it >causing Spleen Qi deficiency, phlegm? Do you suspect that it would because it tends to be high in fat?? The theory is it does not because the lack of carbs/insulin 'buck the system'. It'll be interesting to hear. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 2, 2003 Report Share Posted September 2, 2003 I believe that alot of meat consumption causes heat in the body, but i'm bias as i'm a veggie. Attilio Chinese Medicine , " Sharon Bridgeman " wrote: > Hi Attilio, > I was wondering how you equate meat consumption to stress upon the slpeen? The meat protein is broken down by the stomach acid. Meat is digested often within a few hours where as non-meat can take days. > > The deconstruction of lipids is also fairly simple in chemical terms, perhaps there is a difference in the nature of dampness depending on the nature of the lipids. Perhaps the polyunsaturated fats and the trans fatty acids of margarine, which I suspect are man made and hence new to the digestive system by only decades, prove a problem. > > regards > Sharon > - > Attilio D'Alberto > Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:27 PM > Re: Atkins diet > > > > I was thinking of the extra meat consumption causing extra stress upon the spleen leading to spleen qi deficiency. Meat may also cause heat and full fat cream will cause damp. All that together could spell a bad case of damp-heat. > > > > We'll have to wait and see if this is correct when someone notices the differences in their patients who are undertaking the Atkins diet. > > > > Attilio > > > > > jackie <Jackie@N...> wrote: > > >I'm interested to know how this diet is affecting the Zangfu. Is it > >causing Spleen Qi deficiency, phlegm? > > Do you suspect that it would because it tends to be high in fat?? The theory > is it does not because the lack of carbs/insulin 'buck the system'. > > It'll be interesting to hear. > > Jackie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 > I think we have to think about genetic background. CM was developed in a totally different genetic population than Europeans. The differences you mention would be in degree not in essence. Even though we may have evolved a continent apart, the 'separation' of the parent genes can go back only a few thousand years. ** Hence we are all one people, despite our differences. ** Take the lactase enzyme present in all infants. This enzyme disappears in 50% of non North Europeans in adulthood and can cause severe digestion (Spleen ?) problems if milk or particularly cream (high in the milk sugar lactose) is taken. Historically, Northern European adults are believed to have evolved a lactase enzyme due to the use of dairy products over the long dark northern winters where no other nutrition was available. Another example of divergent evolution of digestive (Spleen??) characteristics may be found in the intolerance many vegetarians have for meat. This may be due to a 'non-meat gene' (specific fat-protein intolerance) evolved through social customs of groups such as Buddhists, Hindus and particularly Jains who have recorded vegetarian lifestyles going back several millenia. Successive waves of diaspora means that even someone in the heart of the English Midshires may have African, Asian or Oriental ancestry [ Did you know the current Tory leader Ian Duncan-Smith has a Chinese grandmother ?]. This introduces the possibility that many of us may possess genes of sufficient difference to the assumed norms made by Atkins, that sweeping generalisation about 'correct diet' or a 'fat loss diet' are impossible to make. Certanly I'd keep a look out for signs of digestive (Spleen) disaharmony on the Atkins diet. Sammy. Alon Marcus [alonmarcus] 02 September 2003 16:06 Chinese Medicine Re: Atkins diet For what it's worth, a bit of personal experience: my partner and I have been doing the Atkins diet for 10 months, carefully following instructions (induction diet for 2 wks, weight loss for 5 mo, maintenence since then, good vit/min supplement, moderate exercise). Can't speak for my pulses (I'm the practitioner), but hers have increased in volume and improved in quality rather astonishingly. Blood deficiency is much less. >>>>>Same here. If blood lipids is a kind of phlegm than i have less phlegm. I think we have to think about genetic background. CM was developed in a totally different genetic population than Europeans. Perhaps that is the cause of difference. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 i think it has nothing to do with the type of people. its all related to the location & available diet in the country. today we find people changing risk factors & getting affected by the food, lifestyle culture of the new country after aperiod of about 20 yeasr. so one generation can change that. i think its alot to do with the diet, culture, thought process, emotional attitude, etc. that influences the outcome. anand --- ga.bates wrote: > > I think we have to think about genetic background. > CM was developed in a > totally different genetic population than Europeans. > > The differences you mention would be in degree not > in essence. Even though > we may have evolved a continent apart, the > 'separation' of the parent genes > can go back only a few thousand years. ** Hence we > are all one people, > despite our differences. ** > > Take the lactase enzyme present in all infants. This > enzyme disappears in > 50% of non North Europeans in adulthood and can > cause severe digestion > (Spleen ?) problems if milk or particularly cream > (high in the milk sugar > lactose) is taken. Historically, Northern European > adults are believed to > have evolved a lactase enzyme due to the use of > dairy products over the long > dark northern winters where no other nutrition was > available. > > Another example of divergent evolution of digestive > (Spleen??) > characteristics may be found in the intolerance many > vegetarians have for > meat. This may be due to a 'non-meat gene' (specific > fat-protein > intolerance) evolved through social customs of > groups such as Buddhists, > Hindus and particularly Jains who have recorded > vegetarian lifestyles going > back several millenia. > > Successive waves of diaspora means that even someone > in the heart of the > English Midshires may have African, Asian or > Oriental ancestry [ Did you > know the current Tory leader Ian Duncan-Smith has a > Chinese grandmother ?]. > This introduces the possibility that many of us may > possess genes of > sufficient difference to the assumed norms made by > Atkins, that sweeping > generalisation about 'correct diet' or a 'fat loss > diet' are impossible to > make. Certanly I'd keep a look out for signs of > digestive (Spleen) > disaharmony on the Atkins diet. > > Sammy. > > > > Alon Marcus [alonmarcus] > 02 September 2003 16:06 > Chinese Medicine > Re: Atkins diet > > > For what it's worth, a bit of personal experience: > my partner and I have > been doing the Atkins diet for 10 months, > carefully following > instructions (induction diet for 2 wks, weight > loss for 5 mo, > maintenence since then, good vit/min supplement, > moderate exercise). > Can't speak for my pulses (I'm the practitioner), > but hers have > increased in volume and improved in quality rather > astonishingly. Blood > deficiency is much less. > >>>>>Same here. If blood lipids is a kind of > phlegm than i have less > phlegm. I think we have to think about genetic > background. CM was developed > in a totally different genetic population than > Europeans. Perhaps that is > the cause of difference. > Alon > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 3, 2003 Report Share Posted September 3, 2003 I totally agree with Sam. Geographical variations do have a tendency to alter diets and food allergies. My Korean wife goes completely red after a sip of alcohol because she lacks the enzyme to digest it. In ancient Europe, water was turned into alcohol as a way of purifying it to drink, whilst in Asia it was boiled and tea leaves were added before drinking. We look at our world and the countries with their boundaries as real, where in actually fact, the ancient civilisations were great travellers. Hence, we do all have a bit of everyone in us. Sam's comments on meat allergies is also very interesting. I had a natural dislike for meat since an early age and Sam's theory may be the reason why. Attilio Chinese Medicine , <ga.bates@v...> wrote: > > I think we have to think about genetic background. CM was developed in a > totally different genetic population than Europeans. > > The differences you mention would be in degree not in essence. Even though > we may have evolved a continent apart, the 'separation' of the parent genes > can go back only a few thousand years. ** Hence we are all one people, > despite our differences. ** > > Take the lactase enzyme present in all infants. This enzyme disappears in > 50% of non North Europeans in adulthood and can cause severe digestion > (Spleen ?) problems if milk or particularly cream (high in the milk sugar > lactose) is taken. Historically, Northern European adults are believed to > have evolved a lactase enzyme due to the use of dairy products over the long > dark northern winters where no other nutrition was available. > > Another example of divergent evolution of digestive (Spleen??) > characteristics may be found in the intolerance many vegetarians have for > meat. This may be due to a 'non-meat gene' (specific fat-protein > intolerance) evolved through social customs of groups such as Buddhists, > Hindus and particularly Jains who have recorded vegetarian lifestyles going > back several millenia. > > Successive waves of diaspora means that even someone in the heart of the > English Midshires may have African, Asian or Oriental ancestry [ Did you > know the current Tory leader Ian Duncan-Smith has a Chinese grandmother ?]. > This introduces the possibility that many of us may possess genes of > sufficient difference to the assumed norms made by Atkins, that sweeping > generalisation about 'correct diet' or a 'fat loss diet' are impossible to > make. Certanly I'd keep a look out for signs of digestive (Spleen) > disaharmony on the Atkins diet. > > Sammy. > > > > Alon Marcus [alonmarcus@w...] > 02 September 2003 16:06 > Chinese Medicine > Re: Atkins diet > > > For what it's worth, a bit of personal experience: my partner and I have > been doing the Atkins diet for 10 months, carefully following > instructions (induction diet for 2 wks, weight loss for 5 mo, > maintenence since then, good vit/min supplement, moderate exercise). > Can't speak for my pulses (I'm the practitioner), but hers have > increased in volume and improved in quality rather astonishingly. Blood > deficiency is much less. > >>>>>Same here. If blood lipids is a kind of phlegm than i have less > phlegm. I think we have to think about genetic background. CM was developed > in a totally different genetic population than Europeans. Perhaps that is > the cause of difference. > Alon > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 4, 2003 Report Share Posted September 4, 2003 Hi Attilio, I suspect different foods are like different fuels. Diesel does not do so well in a petrol engine. Some of us burn meat better than grains and legumes and some of us burn grains and legumes better than meat. I have read that if there are allergies to say meat, it is the body's message that there is a nutrient deficiency. The idea is that if you correct the nutrient deficiency then the person will no longer show reaction to the digestion of that food. The same theory maybe used for treating non food allergies. My personal suspicion is that the consumption of highly processed grains that are sugar laden and contain usually poor quality and possibly rancid fats damage the digestive system. Switching to a high protein diet means to me two things: 1. Resting the over burdened pancrease and insulin production systems. 2. Abstaining from foods that are probably toxic to the body, due to their farming, gathering, processing and storage. When one reads the body processes of hyper-insulin production prior to the development of type II diabetes, one might be struck by the expression of yang and yin in the process. The incidence of insulin resistance etc has such growing numbers in the west, one has to wonder why? The incidence of heart disease, according to Atkins, was a rare illness in USA in the 1800's, this is the time of high meat high fat intake. Atkins suggest that the precursors for heart disease was in the introduction of sugar laden cola and the new type of highly processed white flour, in the late 1800's. I have read Atkins book at least twice now, but have not reviewed his original references to research papers. I have difficulty with his use of sugar substitutes and the use of soy flour in his flour substitutes. It is to me, the saying to have one's cake and eat it to. Humans did not have access to amount of refined carbs that are about today and that many call food. I think there is a fundamental flaw in western diets of high intake of sugars. Be that cane sugar or fruit juices. I have also read some of the Blood type diets and seen people have improvement in their health by following some of its recommendations. Here say 'O's' should eat walnuts but not peanuts; plums but not strawberries. Also what they say counts, is that 70% of the time you eat the optimal and some of the neutral foods. It is quite striking how many people I have come across who already avoid the foods considered in appropriate. Yet there are die hard 'A' blood group people who are big meat eaters and who also disagree with the food selections. As to the heat in the body from meat. I can't say. You do need quality hydrochloric acid to digest meat as well as destroy bacteria etc. I do also know that for some people grains end up fermenting in their digestive track causing, bloat and general dampness. I don't see fats/oils/lipids as phlegm... if that where the case how would we understand that the cell membrane is made up of lipids? Are we walking blobs of phlegm then? I do see that deep-frying foods in oil as a possible precursor for digestive disorders. I tend to think of Candida problems as dampness and that it can lead to phlegm. Candida lives off sugars/starches/carbohydrates. I also see the counterflow of qi where the ileocecal valve inappropriately allows a back flow from the large intestine into the small intestine, flooding it with damaging flora and toxins etc. I have wondered about the desert menu at local Chinese restaurants... deep-fried ice-cream. Heat/Cold/Damp, I wonder who ever could have invented such contrasts? And typically we are not talking about the once of use of high heat to a cold pressed oil. No we are probably talking about the multiple use of a hydrolised vegatable oil full of carcigens. Wheat is notoriously hard to digest, it is also cold in energetic terms. It is such a staple in the west and our breads are so full of chemicals to boot. As a child two day old bread was fit for toasting and three day old bread was showing mould. I am lead to believe that the more physically active one is, the higher one's metabolic rate and I understand that the high metabolic rate can burn off some of the elements associated with high carb intake. So if I understand the idea, those doing high level physical activity have the ability to literally burn the by-products of the carbs and may handle them more effectively/efficiently than those with low metabolic rates. I also think there is a strong link to nurturing and food intake. Oral reward and self protection via intake and fat gain. I think that we in the west mostly don't know how to handle our anger and we eat to dispose some of that anger. So diet has much more going with it than just the food type. We are also highly disconnected from our food sources and now from the preparation of those foods into meals. I recall the words in TCM school from a visiting Chinese Professor; to paraphrase. It is not what you eat but how you eat it. Never ask your children how is their day at the dinner table. Their qi rises from the stomach to the mind, and as usual children have good and bad things happening each day and this can so easily lead to qi stagnation. Eat with company and have pleasant light conversation. Listen perhaps to some music, but not the television. Sit and eat and focus on your food with appreciation, do not eat on the run or whilst driving etc. None of his recommendations cost anything, yet I think there is so much digestive improvement to be had if any of us where to follow such guidelines. To conclude one of my favourite movies is 'Like Water for Chocolate' where the cook stirs her emotions into each dish she cooks. Now that is alchemy! Sharon - Chinese Medicine Wednesday, September 03, 2003 6:55 AM Re: Atkins diet I believe that alot of meat consumption causes heat in the body, but i'm bias as i'm a veggie. Attilio Chinese Medicine , " Sharon Bridgeman " wrote: > Hi Attilio, > I was wondering how you equate meat consumption to stress upon the slpeen? The meat protein is broken down by the stomach acid. Meat is digested often within a few hours where as non-meat can take days. > > The deconstruction of lipids is also fairly simple in chemical terms, perhaps there is a difference in the nature of dampness depending on the nature of the lipids. Perhaps the polyunsaturated fats and the trans fatty acids of margarine, which I suspect are man made and hence new to the digestive system by only decades, prove a problem. > > regards > Sharon > - > Attilio D'Alberto > Chinese Medicine > Tuesday, September 02, 2003 7:27 PM > Re: Atkins diet > > > > I was thinking of the extra meat consumption causing extra stress upon the spleen leading to spleen qi deficiency. Meat may also cause heat and full fat cream will cause damp. All that together could spell a bad case of damp-heat. > > > > We'll have to wait and see if this is correct when someone notices the differences in their patients who are undertaking the Atkins diet. > > > > Attilio > > > > > jackie <Jackie@N...> wrote: > > >I'm interested to know how this diet is affecting the Zangfu. Is it > >causing Spleen Qi deficiency, phlegm? > > Do you suspect that it would because it tends to be high in fat?? The theory > is it does not because the lack of carbs/insulin 'buck the system'. > > It'll be interesting to hear. > > Jackie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 wrote: Sharon: The incidence of insulin resistance etc has such growing numbers in the west, one has to wonder why? The incidence of heart disease, according to Atkins, was a rare illness in USA in the 1800's, this is the time of high meat high fat intake. Atkins suggest that the precursors for heart disease was in the introduction of sugar laden cola and the new type of highly processed white flour, in the late 1800's. Atti: Yes, i agree. We're not getting healther with technology and lifestyle, more like the opposite. Sharon: As to the heat in the body from meat. I can't say. You do need quality hydrochloric acid to digest meat as well as destroy bacteria etc. I do also know that for some people grains end up fermenting in their digestive track causing, bloat and general dampness. I don't see fats/oils/lipids as phlegm... if that where the case how would we understand that the cell membrane is made up of lipids? Are we walking blobs of phlegm then? Atti: i dont see who lipids can be phlegm either. But as Alon yes, its been around since the 70s so its still a new concept. Anyway, we are stil evolving to digest meat. We have the teeth for it, and the enzymes to break it down, but i believe the intestines still haven't evolved to accommodate the pasage of digested meat. This may explain IBS and other diseases related to the intestines. Sharon: I have wondered about the desert menu at local Chinese restaurants... deep-fried ice-cream. Heat/Cold/Damp, I wonder who ever could have invented such contrasts? Atti: i never heard of deep-fried ice-cream or seen it on the menu. I've heard of the deep-fried mars bar (a chocolate candy for all you Yanks) been eaten in Scotland, but never ice cream! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 5, 2003 Report Share Posted September 5, 2003 Well then, perhaps its an Aussie invention! Sharon Atti: i never heard of deep-fried ice-cream or seen it on the menu. I've heard of the deep-fried mars bar (a chocolate candy for all you Yanks) been eaten in Scotland, but never ice cream! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2003 Report Share Posted September 6, 2003 hi, i have had it in aussieland. did not have it anywhere else. but i ate it in a chinese restaurant. wonder whether its a chinese dish. anand --- <> wrote: > Well then, perhaps its an Aussie invention! > Sharon > Atti: i never heard of deep-fried ice-cream or > seen it on the menu. > I've heard of the deep-fried mars bar (a chocolate > candy for all you > Yanks) been eaten in Scotland, but never ice > cream! > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 hi, i think diabetes is a combination of a lot of things which most people overlook. its not only technology or fast foods. you will notice that everything ahs come together. 1. fast foods which do not have good calories which we all accept. 2. changed lifestyle. we now do not do enough ohysical activity overall. whether its walking for abus/train or doing hard physical work 3. we have lot more emotional issues where we do not have apunch up or physical outlet to emotional trauma. this although is not recommended we have to keep this bottled up & i reckon it does alot of damage overtime. 4. we are tv, computer addicts & hence a lifestyle change 5.we have more superficial relationships. hence there is alot of insecurity in our lives. even though we have agood life we are always at a lose end to think of what can happen whether its a car accident that can change life full circle or an affair that can change amarriage/ralationship. all in all with all of the above circumstances there is alogical reason for our diabetes & other major chronic illnesses- especially ehart disease. anand --- <attiliodalberto wrote: > wrote: > > Sharon: The incidence of insulin resistance etc has > such growing > numbers in the west, one has to wonder why? The > incidence of heart > disease, according to Atkins, was a rare illness in > USA in the > 1800's, this is the time of high meat high fat > intake. Atkins > suggest that the precursors for heart disease was in > the > introduction of sugar laden cola and the new type of > highly > processed white flour, in the late 1800's. > > Atti: Yes, i agree. We're not getting healther with > technology and > lifestyle, more like the opposite. > > Sharon: As to the heat in the body from meat. I > can't say. You do > need quality hydrochloric acid to digest meat as > well as destroy > bacteria etc. I do also know that for some people > grains end up > fermenting in their digestive track causing, bloat > and general > dampness. I don't see fats/oils/lipids as phlegm... > if that where > the case how would we understand that the cell > membrane is made up > of lipids? Are we walking blobs of phlegm then? > > Atti: i dont see who lipids can be phlegm either. > But as Alon yes, > its been around since the 70s so its still a new > concept. Anyway, we > are stil evolving to digest meat. We have the teeth > for it, and the > enzymes to break it down, but i believe the > intestines still haven't > evolved to accommodate the pasage of digested meat. > This may explain > IBS and other diseases related to the intestines. > > Sharon: I have wondered about the desert menu at > local Chinese > restaurants... deep-fried ice-cream. > Heat/Cold/Damp, I wonder who > ever could have invented such contrasts? > > Atti: i never heard of deep-fried ice-cream or seen > it on the menu. > I've heard of the deep-fried mars bar (a chocolate > candy for all you > Yanks) been eaten in Scotland, but never ice cream! > > > ===== Anand Bapat Pain Management Specialist Sports Injury Specialist Blacktown, Parramatta, Punchbowl, & Hammondville 0402 472 897 ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://mail.messenger..co.uk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 > 3. we have lot more emotional issues where we do not > have apunch up or physical outlet to emotional trauma. > this although is not recommended we have to keep this > bottled up & i reckon it does alot of damage overtime. I think this is very true - stress can raise insulin levels sharply, and constant stress may mean constantly raised insulin. I wonder what you folk think of the statement 'Liver Qi stagnation is basically stress'? A possible genesis? Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2003 Report Share Posted September 7, 2003 Of course, as we recognize patterns in TCM, there is more than one " cause " in any syndrome or pattern. That being said, I personally think that the points that you have argued are no more a consideration now than they ever have been, save for the fact that they are now endemic rather than being restricted to upper echelon classes as they may have been in the past. Subsequently, I submit that points 1 & 2 of your post are related and over-lapping, as are points 3, 4 & 5. I would argue that we have no more emotional issues than we ever have as a species, nor are they any more or less superficial. I hate to sound " Chopra-ish " , " Robbins-esque " , be branded a " Dyer-ite " , a " Covey-ist " , or a " Nightingale-whatever " , but prevailing mental/emotional states tend to predominate and determine our reality. How any practitioner decides to interpret that within the confines of Zangfu, Yin-Yang, or Five Phase theory is up to them and their integrity as a " healer " . -Everett At 12:09 AM 9/7/2003 +0100, you wrote: >hi, >i think diabetes is a combination of a lot of things >which most people overlook. >its not only technology or fast foods. >you will notice that everything ahs come together. >1. fast foods which do not have good calories which we >all accept. >2. changed lifestyle. we now do not do enough ohysical >activity overall. whether its walking for abus/train >or doing hard physical work >3. we have lot more emotional issues where we do not >have apunch up or physical outlet to emotional trauma. >this although is not recommended we have to keep this >bottled up & i reckon it does alot of damage overtime. >4. we are tv, computer addicts & hence a lifestyle >change >5.we have more superficial relationships. hence there >is alot of insecurity in our lives. even though we >have agood life we are always at a lose end to think >of what can happen whether its a car accident that can >change life full circle or an affair that can change >amarriage/ralationship. all in all with all of the >above circumstances there is alogical reason for our >diabetes & other major chronic illnesses- especially >ehart disease. >anand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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