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TCM in a WM context - 'vaporisation of Yin' -=- RE: Digest Number 138

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Regarding the survival of TCM in a WM context:

 

In order to prevent this 'vaporisation of Yin' as you so aptly put it Anand

you really need some definitive breakthroughs in the medical field which can

be seen to result from the application of TCM. These applications must be

'newsworthy' so they capture the public imagination and direct patients to

not to WM (and not to TCM via WM - but directly to TCM).

 

You need to be able to demonstrate how TCM can easily and treat at little

expense diseases that are personally debilitating; socially problematic

because of the potential scale of those affected; and also very expensive

for governments to treat by conventional means because of the absolute

numbers involved.

 

Any suggestions ? When I contacted several agencies a few months ago (

including the WHO and DMX ) asking for information on studies demonstrating

just the thing I was referring to I have been met with a big fat ZERO. There

may be an 'immediacy' in the effect of TCM or acupuncture (as I believe

Richard - acudoc said) that goes beyond the need to do double blind

studies. BUT until TCM comes up with the goods in treating some of the

'diseases of civilisation' it will have to take a back seat to the cut /

burn / poison mentality of WM.

 

So, out there in the big wide world, is there an agency - a research

organisation maybe or a university - that has a pro-active stance in

developing this type of TCM research where it does not exist ?

 

Sammy.

anand bapat [acubapat]

24 August 2003 00:00

Chinese Medicine

Re: Digest Number 138

 

 

yes thats very true.yin does overcome yang if yin is

strong enough to surviuve it. its like fire. water

will overcome it if there is adequate quantities. but

if there is shortage then water will evaporate.

same with CM. in china it will survie as there are

numbers. but in west where ther are limited numbers

--IF WE ARE NOT CAREFUL & WAIT TOO LONG FOR THE YIN TO

CONQUER YANG - I BELIEVE WE MAY VAPORISE.

anand

 

 

--- matt bauer <acu.guy wrote: > IMO, the

fighting spirit Richard advocates strikes

> me as a yang quality while the cooperative bridge

> Terry advocates is more a yin quality. In Chapter 28

> of the Tao Teh Ching, Lao Tzu said " Know that you

> possess the strong masculine (yang) principle, yet

> abide by the meek feminine (yin) principal. " Then,

> in Chapter 43 - " The softest of all things can

> overcome the hardest of all things. " We should, I

> think, look for a balance of both approaches,

> perhaps favoring the yin as the underlying

> principal.

>

> Matt Bauer

> -

> Terry Oleson

> Chinese Medicine

> Friday, August 22, 2003 8:51 AM

> RE: Digest Number 138

>

>

> Dear All,

>

> As a licensed psychologist, as well as

> someone deeply interested

> in clinical acupuncture, it seems that there has

> been an overly

> obsessive and paranoid reaction on the part of

> many acupuncturist toward

> the medical profession. Most MDs have not taken

> any courses on

> acupuncture, thus for a physician to take several

> weekend courses on the

> topic seems like a good thing, not a horrible

> thing. There are still

> many MDs opposed to acupuncture, labeling it quack

> medicine, but there

> are a growing number of MDs who are open to its

> potential benefits. When

> they take these weekend courses, the MDs do not

> immediately conclude

> that they are just as experienced in the procedure

> as someone who has

> had several years of training at an acupuncture

> school. Several of them

> go ahead and do the full 2 - 3 year training to

> obtain their LAc as well

> as their MD license. Most of them just learn about

> the types of

> conditions that they may refer to an LAc for

> acupuncture treatment.

>

> All this ranting and raving about the crimes

> committed by

> weekend acupuncture courses for MDs seems entirely

> misplaced. There are

> some bad doctors out there, but most of them are

> rather caring health

> care professionals. There is a real reason for

> righteous anger. Not

> enough has been done to bridge the gap between

> different health care

> professions, to bring greater Taoist harmony to

> the warring medical

> factions. Such a pursuit would require

> acupuncturists, who represent the

> new therapy on the block, to make congenial

> overtures to members of the

> medical establishment, who currently hold the

> power in American

> medicine. One may resent that MDs hold the power,

> one may resent that

> Western Medicine can be overly arrogant in

> thinking that they know

> everything, but at the end of the day, it will

> serve our needs to work

> with them, not against them. If one looks at the

> history of medicine in

> both the Far East and in the West, such has always

> been the case. So,

> while still allowing that righteous rage has its

> usefulness, the

> practice of Buddhist compassion might serve the

> acupuncture community

> better. And for those Christians who have learned

> acupuncture, remember,

> they (MDs) " know not what they do " when they

> remain ignorant of the qi

> life force that is the true source of healing. Our

> job is to bring them

> enlightenment.

>

> Terry

>

>

> Chinese Medicine

>

>

Chinese Medicine

>

> Wednesday, August 20, 2003 4:06 AM

> Chinese Medicine

> Digest Number 138

>

>

> For practitioners, students and those interested

> in TCM.

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any

> commerical, religious, spam

> messages or flame another member.

>

> If you want to change the way you receive email

> message, i.e.

> individually, daily digest or none, then visit the

> groups' homepage:

>

>

Chinese Medicine/

> Click 'edit

> my membership' on the right hand side and adjust

> accordingly.

>

>

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hi sammy,

yes i agree, we do need some breakthrough.

i have been working with acupuncture over the years &

think there is a cure for asthama, slipped disc,

cervical spondylitis - to list a few.

if i can get some good research data together &

publish such findings regularly then we would have

made great progresss. if we can all do the same then

we will collectively make a great wave which will haev

to be acknowledged.

i at the present think this is the way to go.

what are others views on the subject.

anand

 

 

 

--- ga.bates wrote: > Regarding the

survival of TCM in a WM context:

>

> In order to prevent this 'vaporisation of Yin' as

> you so aptly put it Anand

> you really need some definitive breakthroughs in the

> medical field which can

> be seen to result from the application of TCM. These

> applications must be

> 'newsworthy' so they capture the public imagination

> and direct patients to

> not to WM (and not to TCM via WM - but

> directly to TCM).

>

> You need to be able to demonstrate how TCM can

> easily and treat at little

> expense diseases that are personally debilitating;

> socially problematic

> because of the potential scale of those affected;

> and also very expensive

> for governments to treat by conventional means

> because of the absolute

> numbers involved.

>

> Any suggestions ? When I contacted several agencies

> a few months ago (

> including the WHO and DMX ) asking for information

> on studies demonstrating

> just the thing I was referring to I have been met

> with a big fat ZERO. There

> may be an 'immediacy' in the effect of TCM or

> acupuncture (as I believe

> Richard - acudoc said) that goes beyond the need to

> do double blind

> studies. BUT until TCM comes up with the goods in

> treating some of the

> 'diseases of civilisation' it will have to take a

> back seat to the cut /

> burn / poison mentality of WM.

>

> So, out there in the big wide world, is there an

> agency - a research

> organisation maybe or a university - that has a

> pro-active stance in

> developing this type of TCM research where it does

> not exist ?

>

> Sammy.

>

> anand bapat [acubapat]

> 24 August 2003 00:00

> Chinese Medicine

> Re: Digest Number 138

>

>

> yes thats very true.yin does overcome yang if yin

> is

> strong enough to surviuve it. its like fire. water

> will overcome it if there is adequate quantities.

> but

> if there is shortage then water will evaporate.

> same with CM. in china it will survie as there are

> numbers. but in west where ther are limited

> numbers

> --IF WE ARE NOT CAREFUL & WAIT TOO LONG FOR THE

> YIN TO

> CONQUER YANG - I BELIEVE WE MAY VAPORISE.

> anand

>

>

> --- matt bauer <acu.guy wrote: > IMO, the

> fighting spirit Richard advocates strikes

> > me as a yang quality while the cooperative

> bridge

> > Terry advocates is more a yin quality. In

> Chapter 28

> > of the Tao Teh Ching, Lao Tzu said " Know that

> you

> > possess the strong masculine (yang) principle,

> yet

> > abide by the meek feminine (yin) principal. "

> Then,

> > in Chapter 43 - " The softest of all things can

> > overcome the hardest of all things. " We should,

> I

> > think, look for a balance of both approaches,

> > perhaps favoring the yin as the underlying

> > principal.

> >

> > Matt Bauer

> > -

> > Terry Oleson

> > To:

> Chinese Medicine

> > Friday, August 22, 2003 8:51 AM

> > RE: Digest Number 138

> >

> >

> > Dear All,

> >

> > As a licensed psychologist, as well as

> > someone deeply interested

> > in clinical acupuncture, it seems that there

> has

> > been an overly

> > obsessive and paranoid reaction on the part of

> > many acupuncturist toward

> > the medical profession. Most MDs have not

> taken

> > any courses on

> > acupuncture, thus for a physician to take

> several

> > weekend courses on the

> > topic seems like a good thing, not a horrible

> > thing. There are still

> > many MDs opposed to acupuncture, labeling it

> quack

> > medicine, but there

> > are a growing number of MDs who are open to

> its

> > potential benefits. When

> > they take these weekend courses, the MDs do

> not

> > immediately conclude

> > that they are just as experienced in the

> procedure

> > as someone who has

> > had several years of training at an

> acupuncture

> > school. Several of them

> > go ahead and do the full 2 - 3 year training

> to

> > obtain their LAc as well

> > as their MD license. Most of them just learn

> about

> > the types of

> > conditions that they may refer to an LAc for

> > acupuncture treatment.

> >

> > All this ranting and raving about the

> crimes

> > committed by

> > weekend acupuncture courses for MDs seems

> entirely

> > misplaced. There are

> > some bad doctors out there, but most of them

> are

> > rather caring health

> > care professionals. There is a real reason for

> > righteous anger. Not

> > enough has been done to bridge the gap between

> > different health care

> > professions, to bring greater Taoist harmony

> to

> > the warring medical

> > factions. Such a pursuit would require

> > acupuncturists, who represent the

> > new therapy on the block, to make congenial

> > overtures to members of the

> > medical establishment, who currently hold the

> > power in American

> > medicine. One may resent that MDs hold the

> power,

> > one may resent that

> > Western Medicine can be overly arrogant in

> > thinking that they know

> > everything, but at the end of the day, it will

> > serve our needs to work

> > with them, not against them. If one looks at

> the

> > history of medicine in

> > both the Far East and in the West, such has

> always

> > been the case. So,

> > while still allowing that righteous rage has

> its

> > usefulness, the

> > practice of Buddhist compassion might serve

> the

> > acupuncture community

> > better. And for those Christians who have

> learned

> > acupuncture, remember,

> > they (MDs) " know not what they do " when they

> > remain ignorant of the qi

> > life force that is the true source of healing.

> Our

> > job is to bring them

> > enlightenment.

> >

> > Terry

> >

> >

> >

> Chinese Medicine

> >

> >

>

>

Chinese Medicine

> >

> > Wednesday, August 20, 2003 4:06 AM

> > To:

> Chinese Medicine

> > Digest Number 138

> >

> >

> > For practitioners, students and those

> interested

> > in TCM.

> >

> > Membership requires that you do not post any

> > commerical, religious, spam

> > messages or flame another member.

> >

> > If you want to change the way you receive

> email

> > message, i.e.

> > individually, daily digest or none, then visit

> the

> > groups' homepage:

> >

> >

>

>

Chinese Medicine/

> > Click 'edit

> > my membership' on the right hand side and

> adjust

> > accordingly.

> >

> >

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