TCM Pracitioner teaching western doctors - who are they?

[Guest guest]

Sammy: One wonder who it is who trains and accredits these MD's on

their weekend acupuncture courses ? These people, who evidently know

about TCM and acupuncture at a highly refined and professional level,

are prostituting their skill and exploiting this venerable knowledge

base for a fast buck in a very _unprofessional_ way. I suggest if

any butt is to be kicked it is theirs

 

Atti: Acutally i know one of these TCM doctors who is selling his

soul, as it were. He's a lecture at mdx!

[Guest guest]

There must be a light side. By teaching WM docs pain management techniques knowledge of acupuncture will be spread through the NHS. This will hopefully create a patient demand for 1. more of the same in pain management and 2. more specialised treatment. At some stage the NHS will have to employ TCM docs with the ability to diagnose and apply acupuncture in the traditional way.

 

On the other hand if the teacher concerned fails to deliver the goods to NHS patients via the WM 'weekend wonders' then TCM will get a bad name and it will not be demanded in or out of the NHS. Therefore, it seems to fall on this guy to do a good job or not do the job at all.

[attiliodalberto]19 August 2003 11:00Chinese Medicine Subject: TCM Pracitioner teaching western doctors - who are they?

Sammy: One wonder who it is who trains and accredits these MD's on their weekend acupuncture courses ? These people, who evidently know about TCM and acupuncture at a highly refined and professional level, are prostituting their skill and exploiting this venerable knowledge base for a fast buck in a very _unprofessional_ way. I suggest if any butt is to be kicked it is theirsAtti: Acutally i know one of these TCM doctors who is selling his soul, as it were. He's a lecture at mdx!For practitioners, students and those interested in TCM. Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, religious, spam messages or flame another member. If you want to change the way you receive email message, i.e. individually, daily digest or none, then visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ Click ‘edit my membership' on the right hand side and adjust accordingly.

[Guest guest]

Attilio

 

Agreed....that some sell their sould for the fast buck and in the end hurt the profession by doing this week-end warrior training. Unfortunately there will always be people like that.

 

On a good note - there is no question that the high majority of attendees of those quickie courses can never be any good and if there is any consolation...they represent other healthcare modalities such as MDs, DOs, DCs, etc. Anytime I have ever heard from a patient that acupuncture didn't work....after asking them WHO did they see....the answer seems to always be an MD, DO or DC.....to which I reply the obvious.

 

There is an old advertising cliche....'you've been to the rest - now come to the best'.

 

Richard

 

Sammy: One wonder who it is who trains and accredits these MD's on

their weekend acupuncture courses ? These people, who evidently know

about TCM and acupuncture at a highly refined and professional level,

are prostituting their skill and exploiting this venerable knowledge

base for a fast buck in a very _unprofessional_ way. I suggest if

any butt is to be kicked it is theirs

 

Atti: Acutally i know one of these TCM doctors who is selling his

soul, as it were. He's a lecture at mdx!

[Guest guest]

I heard of many cases where acupuncture didn't work or

damage to the tissue around the point was a problem,

but 90% coming from MD's DO'S short ourse weekend type

of deal.

Why the profession including associations wants to

sell or please the MD's??

Vanessa

 

 

 

Anytime

> I have ever heard from a patient that acupuncture

> didn't work....after asking

> them WHO did they see....the answer seems to always

> be an MD, DO or DC.....to

> which I reply the obvious.

>

> There is an old advertising cliche....'you've been

> to the rest - now come to

> the best'.

>

> Richard

>

> > Sammy: One wonder who it is who trains and

> accredits these MD's on

> > their weekend acupuncture courses ? These people,

> who evidently know

> > about TCM and acupuncture at a highly refined and

> professional level,

> > are prostituting their skill and exploiting this

> venerable knowledge

> > base for a fast buck in a very _unprofessional_

> way. I suggest if

> > any butt is to be kicked it is theirs

> >

> > Atti: Acutally i know one of these TCM doctors who

> is selling his

> > soul, as it were. He's a lecture at mdx!

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

-

I agree some in the profession are to quick to open

the doors for so-called docs that are interested in

using acupuncture for care. But what can be taught in

a weekend course? CookBook type of practice.

Vanessa

 

 

-- <attiliodalberto

wrote:

> Sammy: One wonder who it is who trains and accredits

> these MD's on

> their weekend acupuncture courses ? These people,

> who evidently know

> about TCM and acupuncture at a highly refined and

> professional level,

> are prostituting their skill and exploiting this

> venerable knowledge

> base for a fast buck in a very _unprofessional_ way.

> I suggest if

> any butt is to be kicked it is theirs

>

> Atti: Acutally i know one of these TCM doctors who

> is selling his

> soul, as it were. He's a lecture at mdx!

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

i think there is a third side to it which none of us

are thinking about.

wm doctors are least interested in patientwelfare.

they are more interested in maintaining control of the

pt. so they willl do anything to keep the pt there

with them.

hence they do wend courses to maintain their pts.

their attitue i believe is as follows:

1. if they can learn acupuncture & get good results

then they will treat the pt.

2. if they can learn they will then call it asimple

science -disregarding the overall knowledge & scope of

the science. they belittle it as -i studied for 2 days

& i can treat pts successfully. so no need to study

further.

3. f they do not get results then they tell the pt

that it does not work for them. they are also

convinced that it never worked in the first place. so

alll future pts are told that it does not work. they

are happy to givethem a trial of treatment but when

not working say that they have tried it & pt should

now go back to medication treatment.

4.all patients see their doctor before they have a

thought of acupuncture tr. the doctor tells them that

-he can do it, or it doe not work, or the bestone of

all- go & see a qualified person - a so & so doctor

who ahs done the course. so no work for tcm people.

so the people who ahev been teaching such wend course

are mad & stabbing their own profession without

realising it.that is exactly why the doctors will not

let anyone do a short course in medicine - whether its

nurses, pt,ot,paramedical,chiropractors,

acupuncturist,etc. so now may be we need to be mor

aware of doing things correctly & i hope some ofthe

people running the courses wake up to this side of

things

anand

 

 

--- ga.bates wrote: > There must be a

light side. By teaching WM docs pain

> management techniques

> knowledge of acupuncture will be spread through the

> NHS. This will hopefully

> create a patient demand for 1. more of the same in

> pain management and 2.

> more specialised treatment. At some stage the NHS

> will have to employ TCM

> docs with the ability to diagnose and apply

> acupuncture in the traditional

> way.

>

> On the other hand if the teacher concerned fails to

> deliver the goods to NHS

> patients via the WM 'weekend wonders' then TCM will

> get a bad name and it

> will not be demanded in or out of the NHS.

> Therefore, it seems to fall on

> this guy to do a good job or not do the job at all.

>

>

> [attiliodalberto]

> 19 August 2003 11:00

> Chinese Medicine

> TCM Pracitioner teaching western

> doctors - who are they?

>

>

> Sammy: One wonder who it is who trains and

> accredits these MD's on

> their weekend acupuncture courses ? These people,

> who evidently know

> about TCM and acupuncture at a highly refined and

> professional level,

> are prostituting their skill and exploiting this

> venerable knowledge

> base for a fast buck in a very _unprofessional_

> way. I suggest if

> any butt is to be kicked it is theirs

>

> Atti: Acutally i know one of these TCM doctors who

> is selling his

> soul, as it were. He's a lecture at mdx!

For practitioners, students and those interested

> in TCM.

>

> Membership requires that you do not post any

> commerical, religious, spam

> messages or flame another member.

>

> If you want to change the way you receive email

> message, i.e.

> individually, daily digest or none, then visit the

> groups’ homepage:

>

Chinese Medicine/

> Click ‘edit my

> membership' on the right hand side and adjust

> accordingly.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I agree to your points Anand.

 

I also think the only way to get TCM docs 'selling their soul' to WM on these weekend courses is to get political. I know 'Thatchers Children' don't like the 'P' word but that is the only way you are going to achieve improvements in your profession. If you leave 'market forces' to form the highways and byways of your professional infrastructure then the profession will be corrupted by these people who sell their soul: It will be riddled with inconsistency and inequality - just as you see it happening now! You do not have to look far to see how unbridled market forces have affected the infrastructure of the transport industry and the power industry in this country and USA / Canada. The same will happen to TCM as a practice if you allow these narrow minded entrepeneurs to pick at it like some Sunday afternoon left-over chicken carcass.

 

Establish universal criteria for qualification to practice acupuncture that applies to all professions. That must lie with the existing TCM / acupuncture accreditation agencies in the UK and China. There is also the progressive legislation on alternative meds via the EU 'Codex Alimentarium' being pushed through Parliament. MP's and MEP's need to be made aware that sections of the medical community are slipping under the net to catch unqualified practitioners. Just because a WM doc takes five years to qualify to apply bandages in AE doesn't mean they can then spend just a weekend qualifying as an acupuncturist. Well, it shouldn't - and the way to ensure it doesn't is to make the legislators aware of the problem NOW.

 

It is precisely NOW during the next year or so that legislation covering this kind of protection for the TCM profession and the public is being formulated at Westminster. Contact your MP and state the problem. Ask the MP to pass on your concern to the legislators and ask for a reply from the legislators about your concerns. All the better if you write from say MDX or Westminster Uni and get a few students and staff to sign the letter.

 

Cheers,

 

Sammy.

 

anand bapat [acubapat]20 August 2003 03:11Chinese Medicine Subject: RE: TCM Pracitioner teaching western doctors - who are they?i think there is a third side to it which none of usare thinking about.wm doctors are least interested in patientwelfare.they are more interested in maintaining control of thept. so they willl do anything to keep the pt therewith them.hence they do wend courses to maintain their pts.their attitue i believe is as follows:1. if they can learn acupuncture & get good resultsthen they will treat the pt.2. if they can learn they will then call it asimplescience -disregarding the overall knowledge & scope ofthe science. they belittle it as -i studied for 2 days & i can treat pts successfully. so no need to studyfurther.3. f they do not get results then they tell the ptthat it does not work for them. they are alsoconvinced that it never worked in the first place. soalll future pts are told that it does not work. theyare happy to givethem a trial of treatment but whennot working say that they have tried it & pt shouldnow go back to medication treatment.4.all patients see their doctor before they have athought of acupuncture tr. the doctor tells them that-he can do it, or it doe not work, or the bestone ofall- go & see a qualified person - a so & so doctorwho ahs done the course. so no work for tcm people.so the people who ahev been teaching such wend courseare mad & stabbing their own profession withoutrealising it.that is exactly why the doctors will notlet anyone do a short course in medicine - whether itsnurses, pt,ot,paramedical,chiropractors,acupuncturist,etc. so now may be we need to be moraware of doing things correctly & i hope some ofthepeople running the courses wake up to this side ofthingsanand--- ga.bates wrote: > There must be alight side. By teaching WM docs pain> management techniques> knowledge of acupuncture will be spread through the> NHS. This will hopefully> create a patient demand for 1. more of the same in> pain management and 2.> more specialised treatment. At some stage the NHS> will have to employ TCM> docs with the ability to diagnose and apply> acupuncture in the traditional> way.> > On the other hand if the teacher concerned fails to> deliver the goods to NHS> patients via the WM 'weekend wonders' then TCM will> get a bad name and it> will not be demanded in or out of the NHS.> Therefore, it seems to fall on> this guy to do a good job or not do the job at all.> > > [attiliodalberto]> 19 August 2003 11:00> Chinese Medicine > TCM Pracitioner teaching western> doctors - who are they?> > > Sammy: One wonder who it is who trains and> accredits these MD's on> their weekend acupuncture courses ? These people,> who evidently know> about TCM and acupuncture at a highly refined and> professional level,> are prostituting their skill and exploiting this> venerable knowledge> base for a fast buck in a very _unprofessional_> way. I suggest if> any butt is to be kicked it is theirs> > Atti: Acutally i know one of these TCM doctors who> is selling his> soul, as it were. He's a lecture at mdx!> > > > > > > For practitioners, students and those interested> in TCM.> > Membership requires that you do not post any> commerical, religious, spam> messages or flame another member.> > If you want to change the way you receive email> message, i.e.> individually, daily digest or none, then visit the> groups’ homepage:>Chinese Medicine/> Click ‘edit my> membership' on the right hand side and adjust> accordingly.> >