Important Notice on Group Discussions

August 7, 2003

I joined the TCM group but only to receive reports of information,

not the

discussion but have been receiving a LOT of emails, more than I have

time to

read. I only want to receive important information, but not ALL of

the

emails. PLEASE.

B. Yates, L.Ac.

Unfortunately, this inevitably leads to a LOT of posts that are off

topic and although some find them amusing or intriguing, it will

eventually lead to the evacuation of good people who are interested

in learning acupuncture and spreading wisdom about the art.

Thanks,

Chris

I'm incline to agree with Chris on this matter. I've noticed from the

group's records that a large number of members have d from

this . Some of them took the time and trouble to tell me

why they left the group.

Amongst other things, they complained about the topics being

discussed, i.e. consciousness, the separate self and the ego. Chinese

medicine is a wonderful medical tradition that has come through the

most important aspects of history (basically all the last 5000

years!). In doing so, it developed through the ages of religion,

technology and cultural revolutions. Along the way it has been

greatly influenced by historical events, ideology and so forth. It is

of course, of interest to TCM practitioners to discuss these aspects,

especially in light of our modern age that harks back to the old.

A large number of members have contributed, including myself, to the

topics of consciousness, the separate self and the ego. This I

believe, is a side step from TCM and is normal in any discussion with

such a large theoretical foundation. I personally cessed my

discussions after I eventually realised that others members, no

matter what I say, with have different views. Members having

different views are not only healthy for the group but also for

humankind. Life would be utterly awful is everyone had the same view.

I have noticed that the same message of the separate self and ego is

being constantly regurgitated in different words but with the same

point. I feel that this is too many steps away from TCM and has been

going on for too long. I believe that it is not to the overall

benefit of the group and its members. I would therefore like this

topic of the separate self, consciousness and the ego to be continued

off list. It will be of course, resurrected again in the future once

new members join and want to discuss it without knowing it has

already been discussed. This is normal. And when it does occur, I

have no problems with it but it's the extent at which it is discussed

and constantly pushed into the spotlight in its multitude of formats.

This doesn't mean i want to stop all discussion on theory. I am quite

happy for Ken's topic of TCM and western theory to continue. This i

feel is a 'side-step' from grass roots discussion and is a worthy and

important one for TCM and its practitioners.

If anyone feels this is unfair, then please feel-free to email me off

list at attiliodalberto

Regards

Attilio (my name originates from Attila the Hun, but without the

nuclear weapons)

August 7, 2003

I have been looking for a way to explain myself to the group regarding the remarks I made last week about Unscuuld's work and think this thread regarding off line posts and long discussions somewhat off topic may allow me to do so. I originally wanted to communicate with Ken Rose off line about Unschuld but did not know how to contact him so I sent out something addressed to him in care of the group and then made some unfortunate remarks about disagreeing with Unschuld without backing them up with detailed references. I was concerned that the length of material it would take to explain myself would be too much for this format and drag this group down. After Bob soundly criticized me for my remarks, I contacted Bob directly (he has his personal e-mail in his signature) and apologized for my remarks. I contacted Bob personally because I did not want to bring the group into what might have turned out to be a two person feud.

Just before these posts, I had begun some communication with Dr. Unschuld and he has kindly agreed to hear me out on some of my thoughts. I also let him know I am interested in helping promote his work as I truly do feel it is important and of the highest quality. I still stand by my opinions but it was unwise to throw them out to this group in the manner I did. I was also unaware that someone calling himself a Taoist posted a very negative review of Dr. Unschuld's latest book on Amazon.com. I would encourage all who feel strongly about the value of his latest book to consider writing a review of it on that site ( mine will appear as "acuguy")

E-mails can be touchy. I have much better success communicating face to face or on the phone. Even with this post I find myself wondering if someone will be put off by my remarks or think I have some motive I don't. I will be much more careful in the future. There is a saying that states: "Taoist do not seek to compete with the world but to play." I will try to do more playing and less competing!

Matt Bauer

-

Chinese Medicine

Thursday, August 07, 2003 2:58 AM

Traditional (TCM) Important Notice on Group Discussions

I joined the TCM group but only to receive reports of information, not the discussion but have been receiving a LOT of emails, more than I have time to read. I only want to receive important information, but not ALL of the emails. PLEASE.B. Yates, L.Ac.Unfortunately, this inevitably leads to a LOT of posts that are off topic and although some find them amusing or intriguing, it will eventually lead to the evacuation of good people who are interested in learning acupuncture and spreading wisdom about the art. Thanks,ChrisI'm incline to agree with Chris on this matter. I've noticed from the group's records that a large number of members have d from this . Some of them took the time and trouble to tell me why they left the group.Amongst other things, they complained about the topics being discussed, i.e. consciousness, the separate self and the ego. Chinese medicine is a wonderful medical tradition that has come through the most important aspects of history (basically all the last 5000 years!). In doing so, it developed through the ages of religion, technology and cultural revolutions. Along the way it has been greatly influenced by historical events, ideology and so forth. It is of course, of interest to TCM practitioners to discuss these aspects, especially in light of our modern age that harks back to the old.A large number of members have contributed, including myself, to the topics of consciousness, the separate self and the ego. This I believe, is a side step from TCM and is normal in any discussion with such a large theoretical foundation. I personally cessed my discussions after I eventually realised that others members, no matter what I say, with have different views. Members having different views are not only healthy for the group but also for humankind. Life would be utterly awful is everyone had the same view. I have noticed that the same message of the separate self and ego is being constantly regurgitated in different words but with the same point. I feel that this is too many steps away from TCM and has been going on for too long. I believe that it is not to the overall benefit of the group and its members. I would therefore like this topic of the separate self, consciousness and the ego to be continued off list. It will be of course, resurrected again in the future once new members join and want to discuss it without knowing it has already been discussed. This is normal. And when it does occur, I have no problems with it but it's the extent at which it is discussed and constantly pushed into the spotlight in its multitude of formats. This doesn't mean i want to stop all discussion on theory. I am quite happy for Ken's topic of TCM and western theory to continue. This i feel is a 'side-step' from grass roots discussion and is a worthy and important one for TCM and its practitioners.If anyone feels this is unfair, then please feel-free to email me off list at attiliodalberto Regards Attilio (my name originates from Attila the Hun, but without the nuclear weapons)For practitioners, students and those interested in Traditional (TCM.). Membership requires that you do not post any commerical, religious, spam messages or flame another member. If you want to change the way you receive email message, i.e. from individual to a daily digest or none then visit the groups’ homepage: Chinese Medicine/ From there, click ‘edit my membership on the right hand side’ and adjust accordingly.