Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 In a message dated 8/2/03 7:38:58 AM, Chinese Medicine writes: << In short, it can tell you whether you are healthy at a click of the mouse. >> Lon: TO me, optimal health suggests that ego is not being expressed and is not being permitted, as a matter of conscious choice, to usurp any physiological resource. I bet the people who programmed this machine have a different operational deffinition of health. And therein lies the issue, our machines will always (until they develop their own consciousness and actively engage with it) reflect our own core value systems. My data suggests that the core value system of most of the human race hasn't evolved beyond that which emerged at about the time of the old testament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 In a message dated 8/2/2003 9:04:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, attiliodalberto writes: People seem to pour scorn on the ego, but we need it to live, I agree. It seems all too often maligned and frequently in a manner that seems to be coming from a need to assert the ego of the commentator. The "spiritual-one-upmanship" that often includes such remarks often tell more than the statement being made. I have witnessed such situations, *often* (big grin) Maya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 Optimal health has a lot more to it than just 'ego'. At the root are belief systems and negative thought patterns, which you may say are 'ego' orientated but are quite separate. People seem to pour scorn on the ego, but we need it to live, although we can then move on from that to a higher realm but we will always have our ego. The core value of the human race has of course, progressed since the time you mentioned. Our world is a constant 'purer' expression of our innerselves. Attilio Chinese Medicine , Spiritpathpress@a... wrote: > > In a message dated 8/2/03 7:38:58 AM, > Chinese Medicine writes: > > << In short, it can tell you whether you are > > healthy at a click of the mouse. >> > > Lon: TO me, optimal health suggests that ego is not being expressed and is > not being permitted, as a matter of conscious choice, to usurp any physiological > resource. I bet the people who programmed this machine have a different > operational deffinition of health. And therein lies the issue, our machines will > always (until they develop their own consciousness and actively engage with it) > reflect our own core value systems. My data suggests that the core value > system of most of the human race hasn't evolved beyond that which emerged at about > the time of the old testament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 At to the subject of measuring: Human vs. machine - I have been taught that the Taoist perspective on measuring in the filed of natural medicine, has to do the capacity of the five senses. As all have a dual (yin/yang) aspect, our senses have both a yin and yang potential range. The yin or apparent aspect is well known to all; the ability to see, hear, touch, taste, and smell. Since all must also have a yang or unapparent aspect, this means we have the capability to see what can't be seen in an ordinary (yin) sense, to hear what can be heard, etc. Taoists contend that one can increase the range of their five senses to include the yang unapparent range. Master musicians playing the stringed instrument the ch'in had fingers that were so sensitive they would let the pulsation of their finger tip's artery apply the vacillating pressure to the strings and would listen "long after a note has become inaudible to other listeners" (J.Needham) Those same expanded sensory abilities were possible for doctors feeling pulses or looking at the hues of a patient's face. In Taoist spirituality, the senses were considered the bridge between the physical and spiritual world. In Chapter 14 of the Tao Teh Chin we read: " Look at it - but you cannot see it. Because it is formless - you call it invisible. Listen to it - but you cannot hear it. Because it is soundless - you call in inaudible. Grasp at it - but it is beyond your reach. Because it is subtle - you call it intangible. But - in the mystical moment you see it, hear it and grasp it - the unseen, the unheard, and the unreachable present themselves as indefinable Oneness." (Ni) As with all Taoist arts and sciences, the refining of one's skills either as a doctors feeling for pulses others could not feel, or a Tai Chi master manipulating a opponents qi others could not sense, the ultimate goal in refining the skills of one's specialty, was a better connection with the spiritual realm. The five sense were seen key to this. Machines of course are devoid of such senses. They are only as good as their design, quality control, last calibration, and the human that operates it. Does that mean we should denounce the use of such devices? One of the most thought provoking teachings of the great Taoist, Chuang Tzu, is a story about a "well sweep". I will paraphrase: A young student of a spiritual teacher sees an old farmer irrigating his field by using a big ladle to take water from one ditch to others. The young man tells the farmer that a new invention called the well sweep has been invented and it does ten times the work with a fraction of the effort. He describes it to the old man who tells the younger man that he is aware of this device but he prefers the old way as a means to train his body and mind. He then launches into a long lecture about how machines can cause the loss of harmony by over stressing the mind and losing balancethe overuse of machines in one's personal life can seduce one to take short cuts, pursuing one's purpose through the use of contrivances." (Ni) He then tells the young man, who is the student of a famous teacher, that he must one who "ignores his own inner gods, breath and body!" and tell him to get lost. The young man goes back to his teacher and tells him what happens. His teachers says the old man was wise and must be one who "cultivates the way of spiritual unity". But he then tell the student; "One who attains the integral truth would also keep pace with the external changes in order to maintain spiritual unity. One must adapt to the changes of the times. Practically, it is to say that the highest one can maintain the unity of his spirit and also accommodate the changes of different circumstances. He allows his spirit to remain in original simplicity while experiencing the worldly life. By doing nothing extra (wu-wei), he attains the wholeness of nature." Matt Bauer - Spiritpathpress Chinese Medicine Saturday, August 02, 2003 7:17 AM Traditional (TCM) MAchines can tell? In a message dated 8/2/03 7:38:58 AM, Chinese Medicine writes:<< In short, it can tell you whether you are healthy at a click of the mouse. >>Lon: TO me, optimal health suggests that ego is not being expressed and is not being permitted, as a matter of conscious choice, to usurp any physiological resource. I bet the people who programmed this machine have a different operational deffinition of health. And therein lies the issue, our machines will always (until they develop their own consciousness and actively engage with it) reflect our own core value systems. My data suggests that the core value system of most of the human race hasn't evolved beyond that which emerged at about the time of the old testament. For practitioners, students and those interested in Traditional (TCM) ranging from acupuncture, herbal medicine, tuina and nutrition.Membership rules require that you adhere to NO commercial postings, NO religious postings and NO spam.Web site homepage: Chinese Medicine/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.