Guest guest Posted July 30, 2003 Report Share Posted July 30, 2003 dear list, Since this list also have intresting post and evedence of mature qi, thought that somone might have an idea for the following which was posted on CHA as an respons to a letter... Dear Daniel,Good morning... (thanks for the info)I meant skin ulcers, and what I am thinking is:If I can borrow a camera from someone here in Guatemala which should not beto difficult we could take pictures and send them to Todd and if he does notdeem them to inappropriate for the list he could post them on the list.They all look different really mainly due to "bed sores" in the hospital andprobably intervention by surgery on a background of a very debilitatedperson.If we could find some way apart from honey (topical) to treat and speed uphealing of skin ulcers it would be a great for the patients and also for thehospital in being able to take in new piatians (yes I am but young at heart"naive")...For example someone named Robert or Robin in Beijing (I think posted areally interesting letter about a Chinese doctor in China whom treats nearlyexclusively with acumoxa, or only acupuncture?) Have you (that posted theletter about "6 channels" and acupuncture seen healing of skin ulcers, inthe clinic?What I am looking for is encouraging experience and logistic...How many times a week (although I am just there 2 days a week but...)Tendencies of disease(ies)western; dis-ease(ies), Pattern(s) Chineseneedle methodpoint combination (as a basis for point prescription which of course is notimmutable)Tui nai methodPlant medicineQi gong or visualisationsAny information might be what mobilises the qi to heal...If one needs to treat every day I shall to organise my self to be thereevery day or someone mention in a earlier letter they wanted somewhere tovolunteer well between you and I (think this was on another list) we couldshare the joy of administrating acumoxa-Chinese medicine...Anyway Daniel thanks for your kind letter...Marco (in Guatemala:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 hi marco, looks like youa re stuck with a pt having severe bed sores. you may wish to try a simple remedy which has worked for alot of patients. collect the urine of the patient. then store it in a bottle. when its minimum 2-3 days old start using it in dressings. soak the dresssing & place on the bed sores for at least 30 min. then you can leave them open or covered with aclean sterile dressing. i would expect that the sores will start to heal within a 2-3 week period. good luck & keep me posted. bye anand --- Marco <bergh wrote: > dear list, > > Since this list also have intresting post and > evedence of mature qi, thought that somone might > have an idea for the following which was posted on > CHA as an respons to a letter... > > Dear Daniel, > > Good morning... (thanks for the info) > > I meant skin ulcers, and what I am thinking is: > > If I can borrow a camera from someone here in > Guatemala which should not be > to difficult we could take pictures and send them to and if he does not > deem them to inappropriate for the list he could > post them on the list. > > They all look different really mainly due to " bed > sores " in the hospital and > probably intervention by surgery on a background of > a very debilitated > person. > > If we could find some way apart from honey (topical) > to treat and speed up > healing of skin ulcers it would be a great for the > patients and also for the > hospital in being able to take in new piatians (yes > I am but young at heart > " naive " )... > > For example someone named Robert or Robin in Beijing > (I think posted a > really interesting letter about a Chinese doctor in > China whom treats nearly > exclusively with acumoxa, or only acupuncture?) Have > you (that posted the > letter about " 6 channels " and acupuncture seen > healing of skin ulcers, in > the clinic? > > What I am looking for is encouraging experience and > logistic... > > How many times a week (although I am just there 2 > days a week but...) > > Tendencies of disease(ies)western; dis-ease(ies), > Pattern(s) Chinese > needle method > point combination (as a basis for point prescription > which of course is not > immutable) > Tui nai method > Plant medicine > Qi gong or visualisations > > Any information might be what mobilises the qi to > heal... > > If one needs to treat every day I shall to organise > my self to be there > every day or someone mention in a earlier letter > they wanted somewhere to > volunteer well between you and I (think this was on > another list) we could > share the joy of administrating acumoxa-Chinese > medicine... > > Anyway Daniel thanks for your kind letter... > > Marco (in Guatemala:-) > > ===== Anand Bapat Pain Management Specialist Sports Injury Specialist Blacktown, Parramatta, Punchbowl, & Hammondville Clinics ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://uk.messenger./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Dear Anad, This "simple" remedy have you experience direct? Or some more written info, or where can I find some more on the internet? BUT first let me say thanks for the information. We have indeed many people that have bed sores skin ulcers after either operations or long time stay in hospitals. If you have lot of experience with skin ulcers you "should" really consider coming to Guatemala, it is a field where thus far due to resources and maybe basic lacking in fundamental know how when it comes to any type of medicine East-West... Are you a TCM practitioner and where are you? As for the urine will report to my supervisor she is a western doctor but very intelligent and human, and if it was only up to her she would probably want to see it implemented A.S.A.P. However the unfortunately many of the western doctors (but by no means all) are resistant to change as indeed any human being is. What is worst from my point of view is that the nurses are very hostile to "Medicina Alternativa" at least at the time of writing but it may change (in fact think it will change). I have had a lurking interest in urine therapy since my return to Guatemala. There is "rumours" that Maya medicine used it or is using it still but have had no real "confirmation" of this, however the ladino population seam to have obtain this urine therapy "idea" from a disparity of places amongst others Japan (?) India (?) Korea(?) Hungary(?) anyway not sure if that is so. As a besides the point the human (mental) quest for validation does indeed take many forms if it is not so call science (western) that people readily quotes as a reason as to "accept" say Chinese medicine (and to a much lesser extent Maya medicine); with regard to Maya medicine every one is freely quoting China Japan Korea and India; would be quite "funny" this so call science validation and "greater" cultural validation if it did not betray a lack of thinking... I always say rather predictably by now that the reason to "validate" Chinese medicine is because of Chinese medicine, as with any other medicine, whereas the other interrelated realties are interesting but not reason de facto... Eitherway this is obviously me ranting on and Anand I really appreciate your letter. Will convey what you mention and if you or anyone else have this experience maybe you can take pictures of before and after treatment so we could present them to the Nurses and the western doctors and the director. Something like this may be able to implement either "secretly" (but then looking for someone outside the hospital, that has the "same" problem, or as a pilot study. I am very encourage and would like to know more: Should one eat certain diet before and during treatment (as to prepare the consistency i.e. composition of the urine) Are the no semi-alternatives that we could start with? In China does one use a blend of salt water and some form of vinegar or I am imagine a memory? Would this have the property of eliminating toxic heat or toxic fire or du-toxic as consider from Chinese medicine and or moving blood in Taiyin level (lung and spleen aspects)? many thanks for the information and looking forward to hear from you, will keep you and list informed... Marco Ps what about hospitals in India and China? Does anyone know if they have a mixture of protocols? (or any country for that matter?) - anand bapat Chinese Medicine Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:15 AM Re: Traditional (TCM) Any ideas hi marco,looks like youa re stuck with a pt having severe bedsores.you may wish to try a simple remedy which has workedfor alot of patients.collect the urine of the patient. then store it in abottle.when its minimum 2-3 days old start using it indressings. soak the dresssing & place on the bed soresfor at least 30 min.then you can leave them open or covered with acleansterile dressing.i would expect that the sores will start to healwithin a 2-3 week period.good luck & keep me posted.byeanand--- Marco <bergh wrote: > dear list,> > Since this list also have intresting post and> evedence of mature qi, thought that somone might> have an idea for the following which was posted on> CHA as an respons to a letter...> > Dear Daniel,> > Good morning... (thanks for the info)> > I meant skin ulcers, and what I am thinking is:> > If I can borrow a camera from someone here in> Guatemala which should not be> to difficult we could take pictures and send them to and if he does not> deem them to inappropriate for the list he could> post them on the list.> > They all look different really mainly due to "bed> sores" in the hospital and> probably intervention by surgery on a background of> a very debilitated> person.> > If we could find some way apart from honey (topical)> to treat and speed up> healing of skin ulcers it would be a great for the> patients and also for the> hospital in being able to take in new piatians (yes> I am but young at heart> "naive")...> > For example someone named Robert or Robin in Beijing> (I think posted a> really interesting letter about a Chinese doctor in> China whom treats nearly> exclusively with acumoxa, or only acupuncture?) Have> you (that posted the> letter about "6 channels" and acupuncture seen> healing of skin ulcers, in> the clinic?> > What I am looking for is encouraging experience and> logistic...> > How many times a week (although I am just there 2> days a week but...)> > Tendencies of disease(ies)western; dis-ease(ies),> Pattern(s) Chinese> needle method> point combination (as a basis for point prescription> which of course is not> immutable)> Tui nai method> Plant medicine> Qi gong or visualisations> > Any information might be what mobilises the qi to> heal...> > If one needs to treat every day I shall to organise> my self to be there> every day or someone mention in a earlier letter> they wanted somewhere to> volunteer well between you and I (think this was on> another list) we could> share the joy of administrating acumoxa-Chinese> medicine...> > Anyway Daniel thanks for your kind letter...> > Marco (in Guatemala:-)> > =====Anand Bapat Pain Management Specialist Sports Injury Specialist Blacktown, Parramatta, Punchbowl, & Hammondville Clinics______________________Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://uk.messenger./For practitioners, students and those interested in Traditional (TCM) ranging from acupuncture, herbal medicine, tuina and nutrition.Membership rules require that you adhere to NO commercial postings, NO religious postings and NO spam.Web site homepage: Chinese Medicine/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 dear marco, pleased to note that youa re interested in welfare of patient. i am aware of the problems with allopathic approach to treatment. theya re generally not keen for anything unless it comes from a factory. to inform you of my background. iam a traditional acupuncturist based in australia. i have been qualified for over 20 yeasr & have been using urine therapy -called shivambu henceforth for the past 10 yeasr while i was in india. there is some old data but there is no recent work done in terms of physiologicl/pathilogical studies. this is not because there is no will but we cnnot analys urine completely. today we have only about 10-20 ingredients. but there are nearly about 100 odd. the clinical work shows very good results. use shivambu old as said in bandages & you will find over a few days things will improve. if patient is happy to drink own urine better still. i have teated with acupuncture but that is a slower process.you ned to have pt drink lots of water, easy diet to digest, ginger, & keep wt off the area. dress with sterile dressing & wash with salt water 1-2/day. leave in sun for sun exposure for about 30-45 min. you will need to treat other conditions to generate better energy balance to achieve the healing. try this. it may take about 4-8 wks. good luck. keep in touch. anand --- Marco <bergh wrote: > Dear Anad, > > This " simple " remedy have you experience direct? > > Or some more written info, or where can I find some > more on the internet? > > BUT first let me say thanks for the information. We > have indeed many people that have bed sores skin > ulcers after either operations or long time stay in > hospitals. > > If you have lot of experience with skin ulcers you > " should " really consider coming to Guatemala, it is > a field where thus far due to resources and maybe > basic lacking in fundamental know how when it comes > to any type of medicine East-West... > > Are you a TCM practitioner and where are you? > > As for the urine will report to my supervisor she is > a western doctor but very intelligent and human, and > if it was only up to her she would probably want to > see it implemented A.S.A.P. However the > unfortunately many of the western doctors (but by no > means all) are resistant to change as indeed any > human being is. What is worst from my point of view > is that the nurses are very hostile to " Medicina > Alternativa " at least at the time of writing but it > may change (in fact think it will change). > > I have had a lurking interest in urine therapy since > my return to Guatemala. There is " rumours " that Maya > medicine used it or is using it still but have had > no real " confirmation " of this, however the ladino > population seam to have obtain this urine therapy > " idea " from a disparity of places amongst others > Japan (?) India (?) Korea(?) Hungary(?) anyway not > sure if that is so. > > As a besides the point the human (mental) quest for > validation does indeed take many forms if it is not > so call science (western) that people readily quotes > as a reason as to " accept " say Chinese medicine (and > to a much lesser extent Maya medicine); with regard > to Maya medicine every one is freely quoting China > Japan Korea and India; would be quite " funny " this > so call science validation and " greater " cultural > validation if it did not betray a lack of > thinking... > > I always say rather predictably by now that the > reason to " validate " Chinese medicine is because of > Chinese medicine, as with any other medicine, > whereas the other interrelated realties are > interesting but not reason de facto... > > Eitherway this is obviously me ranting on and Anand > I really appreciate your letter. Will convey what > you mention and if you or anyone else have this > experience maybe you can take pictures of before and > after treatment so we could present them to the > Nurses and the western doctors and the director. > > Something like this may be able to implement either > " secretly " (but then looking for someone outside the > hospital, that has the " same " problem, or as a pilot > study. > > I am very encourage and would like to know more: > > Should one eat certain diet before and during > treatment (as to prepare the consistency i.e. > composition of the urine) > > Are the no semi-alternatives that we could start > with? > > In China does one use a blend of salt water and some > form of vinegar or I am imagine a memory? > > Would this have the property of eliminating toxic > heat or toxic fire or du-toxic as consider from > Chinese medicine and or moving blood in Taiyin level > (lung and spleen aspects)? > > many thanks for the information and looking forward > to hear from you, will keep you and list informed... > > Marco > > Ps what about hospitals in India and China? > Does anyone know if they have a mixture of > protocols? > (or any country for that matter?) > > - > anand bapat > Chinese Medicine > Thursday, July 31, 2003 6:15 AM > Re: Traditional (TCM) > Any ideas > > > hi marco, > looks like youa re stuck with a pt having severe > bed > sores. > you may wish to try a simple remedy which has > worked > for alot of patients. > collect the urine of the patient. then store it in > a > bottle. > when its minimum 2-3 days old start using it in > dressings. soak the dresssing & place on the bed > sores > for at least 30 min. > then you can leave them open or covered with > aclean > sterile dressing. > i would expect that the sores will start to heal > within a 2-3 week period. > good luck & keep me posted. > bye > anand > > > > --- Marco <bergh wrote: > dear list, > > > > Since this list also have intresting post and > > evedence of mature qi, thought that somone might > > have an idea for the following which was posted > on > > CHA as an respons to a letter... > > > > Dear Daniel, > > > > Good morning... (thanks for the info) > > > > I meant skin ulcers, and what I am thinking is: > > > > If I can borrow a camera from someone here in > > Guatemala which should not be > > to difficult we could take pictures and send > them to > and if he does not > > deem them to inappropriate for the list he could > > post them on the list. > > > > They all look different really mainly due to > " bed > > sores " in the hospital and > > probably intervention by surgery on a background > of > > a very debilitated > > person. > > > > If we could find some way apart from honey > (topical) > > to treat and speed up > > healing of skin ulcers it would be a great for > the > > patients and also for the > > hospital in being able to take in new piatians > (yes > > I am but young at heart > > " naive " )... > > > > For example someone named Robert or Robin in > Beijing > > (I think posted a > > really interesting letter about a Chinese doctor > in > > China whom treats nearly > > exclusively with acumoxa, or only acupuncture?) > Have > > you (that posted the > > letter about " 6 channels " and acupuncture seen > > healing of skin ulcers, in > > the clinic? > > > > What I am looking for is encouraging experience > and > > logistic... > > > > How many times a week (although I am just there > 2 > > days a week but...) > > > > Tendencies of disease(ies)western; > dis-ease(ies), > > Pattern(s) Chinese > > needle method > > point combination (as a basis for point > prescription > > which of course is not > > immutable) > > Tui nai method > > Plant medicine > > Qi gong or visualisations > > > > Any information might be what mobilises the qi > to > > heal... > > > > If one needs to treat every day I shall to > organise > > my self to be there > > every day or someone mention in a earlier letter > > they wanted somewhere to > > volunteer well between you and I (think this > was on > > another list) we could > > share the joy of administrating acumoxa-Chinese > > medicine... > > > > Anyway Daniel thanks for your kind letter... > > > > Marco (in Guatemala:-) > > > > > > ===== > Anand Bapat > Pain Management Specialist > Sports Injury Specialist > Blacktown, Parramatta, Punchbowl, & Hammondville > Clinics > > > > ______________________ > Want to chat instantly with your online friends? > Get the FREE > Messenger http://uk.messenger./ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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