JMT - Another hyped scam?

[Guest guest]

Hi All, and Hi Neal and Acudoctor5,

 

Neal wrote [to Acudoctor5]:

> Can you describe the JMT technique in detail please (I looked at

> the JMT website and found virtually no description of what it

> actually is, other than what appears to be muscle testing (without

> reference to the nature of the inquiry) and percussion along the

> spine. I would love To " cure any allergy in ten minutes " . Can you

> describe the method in some detail? Many thanks, Neal White.

 

I echo Neal's request.

 

I have had a look at the site also. My impression is that of a highly

hyped system, costing 850$ for a 2-day basic seminar centred on

using kinesiology (muscle-testing) as the diagnostic centre. There

is also an offer of a 50$ payment to anyone who refers participants

to these seminars!!

 

IMO, the JMT claims of treating the range of serious diseases

mentioned border on the outrageous.

 

Acudoctor5 [you do not state your name], please forgive

my scepticism, but the JMT blurb looks like very commercial

balderdash to me. A claim to cover homeopathy, allergies, tissue

drainage in a professional way, etc in 2 days is mind-boggling to

me, almost as mind boggling as your claim: " I can cure ANY

allergy in ten minutes, as well as muscle pain in less than 15

minutes - 1 treatment [Acudoctor5] "

 

This is supposed to be a List mainly for TCM Professionals. I hope

that our ListMaster will ensure that the more outrageous claims do

not go unquestioned.

 

I look forward to a reasoned discussion on JMT and some proof of

the incredibly high efficacy rates that Acudoctor5 claims.

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

WORK : Teagasc Staff Development Unit, Sandymount Ave., Dublin 4, Ireland

WWW :

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

 

HOME : 1 Esker Lawns, Lucan, Dublin, Ireland

WWW : http://homepage.eircom.net/~progers/searchap.htm

Email: <

Tel : 353-; [in the Republic: 0]

[Guest guest]

Hello Phil,

 

Relax. I can assure you that JMT is anything but hype. The problem is that those of us who stay in the safe borders of our own profession, have little to no knowledge of what other things are happening to advance the cause for healing elsewhere.

 

I recall a time when acupuncture was referred to as balderdash right here in the good old USA by the hierarchy conventional medical practitioners. How did that make you feel when you knew that you could help many people without the use of drugs?

 

Before you limit yourself to the possibility of expanding your knowledge beyond your safe borders, log on to www.alternativemedicine.com and type the word arthritis in the search window. Scroll down through the other archived articles to "Reversing Arthritis with the Jaffe-Mellor Technique, then judge. Better yet, read the Townsend Letter for Doctors - Dec. 2000, Chiropractic Products article Aug. 2001, Holistic Nurses Journal article April 2003 on JMT, then judge. By the way, Phil, several acupuncturists who prepare the NCCAOM exam have training in JMT. This is a fact, because I have spoken with them. I hear that JMT will be featured in an upcoming Oriental medicine journal. California recognizes the technique and awards CEUs as does Florida. By the way Phil, the course is 3 days and every bit of the money I spent was worth it since I have a 3 month waiting list - and this is not balderdash.

 

The problem most of us have with believing in cures, is that we haven't learned how to achieve them. Sad, because JMT has!

 

My sincerest hope Phil is that you open your mind and heart to possibility thinking, because if you believe humanity has reached its limit, we're really doomed to suffer and struggle forever. Fortunately for me and my patients, this is not the case.

 

Mark (Acudoctor5)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/16/2003 8:43:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zrosenbe writes:

 

Whether or not JMT is hype, if this is a traditional Chinese medicine

site, what is the point of discussing this on this group? If one of

the points of this group is to sell techniques that have a loose

relationship with Chinese medicine, please let me know. I personally

have no interest in discussing these methods here.

 

I began discussing JMT as a possible technique to help our friend with premature ejaculation. Somebody asked if I would further discuss it. I do believe that anything that can further our ability to resolve disease and suffering outweighs our need to embrace a single philosophy. More than that, everybody should have the opportunity to think for themself. Yes, I agree, if you personally have no interest in discussing this method - don't!

 

Mark (Acudoctor5)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/16/2003 8:43:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zrosenbe writes:

 

If one of

the points of this group is to sell techniques that have a loose

relationship with Chinese medicine, please let me know.

 

I am not selling anything. I am a doctor of Oriental medicine and a naturopath who believes in integrating anything into my practice that will benefit my patients and make their journey easier. Now you know!

 

Acudoctor5

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/16/2003 5:26:18 PM Pacific Standard Time, Acudoctor5 writes:

 

I recall a time when acupuncture was referred to as balderdash right here in the good old USA by the hierarchy conventional medical practitioners. How did that make you feel when you knew that you could help many people without the use of drugs?

 

I don't have to recall this time as I am still living in it ... we are far from out of that wood. Let's hope it is sooner rather than later.

That said ....

 

I think what Phil was responding to, Acudoc, was the nature and wording of your initial introduction of the information. I agree that it is important to keep one's mind open and to develop as broad a pallet as one is able. But "infomercial-esque" claims and language does tweak suspicion and caution in many of us ... and for good reason.

 

In a culture of "bigger, better, faster, now" advertising, presentation is especially important. It is the presentation that offers supportive information with a calm and clear voice that gains the more expedient status of "possible credibility". We have seen more than our fair share of flim flam men come and go (indeed we are inundated with them daily) ... and all use overly definite language and make wild claims. I hope JMT is what you claim it to be. But I wouldn't accuse someone of being completely closed minded when they see some common cues for hesitancy.

 

Be well, Maya

[Guest guest]

Maya,

 

You are very gracious. At one time in history, something as benign as washing hands was under suspicion. It is sad that flim flam operators do exist, but so do honorable people with true intentions. Such was my offer to share information. If I am under suspicion by some, that issue belongs to the suspicious, if others are curious, curiosity belongs to them. Each person has there own journey to take, as you well know. Fear and suspicion will not further our cause. Enlightenment, and a ballywick of skill will enable and empower us.

 

When I received my training, I sat with approximately 90 health care providers; 60% of whom were chiropractors. It is no secret that chiropractors are very aggressive and are even making it possible within their own ranks to practice acupuncture with a minimum of training in the USA. I believe it is imperative to empower ourselves as much as possible - in much the same way as any other wise integrative practitioner would. This issue is most certainly mine.

 

As I understand it, the researchers of JMT are both trained in oriental medicine and each was not able to provide more than palliative help to their patients struggling with arthritis. For this reason, I was told, they began to look outside of TCM. As it is explained in a workbook I have, they were not able to consistently demonstrate any demonstrative relief for arthritis in particular. There was no clear evidence of cold or for that matter excesses or stagnaton of any kind in any of the channels. They had tried using the Japanese approach taught by Kiko Matsumoto - but this did not demonstrate any change to the deteriorating cartilage. They sought the help of Dr. William Bensky, OMD, and Dr. Bob Flaws, but were still not able to stop arthritis.

 

The Chinese classics speak of EPF, recognizing the existance of pathogens, but were not able to provide much more than acknowledgement. This is a quantum leap for Oriental medicine for several reasons. The underlying foundation of this technique supports the concept of energetic medicine. What has been accomplished here has never been accomplished with western medicine. Additionally, the emphasis on the bladder meridian is one of the hallmarks of the technique as are certain other points: St36, Sp3, Li4, Lu7, K3 for instance.

 

Please take the time to read the article in the archives of Alternative Medicine magazine. If I sound like an infomercial, it is certainly not my intention. However, I do not know how to communicate information to those of you who are interested in learning something very valuable without speaking about it.

 

Mark

[Guest guest]

Whether or not JMT is hype, if this is a traditional Chinese medicine

site, what is the point of discussing this on this group? If one of

the points of this group is to sell techniques that have a loose

relationship with Chinese medicine, please let me know. I personally

have no interest in discussing these methods here. My opinion is that

it would be more appropriate to discuss it elsewhere. Everyone in this

group, I assume, is trained in Chinese medicine to some degree. Very

few in JMT. Also, in different states or countries, JMT will not be in

the scope of practice. Finally, JMT is a technique, not a school of

medicine.

 

 

On Monday, June 16, 2003, at 05:24 PM, Acudoctor5 wrote:

 

> Relax. I can assure you that JMT is anything but hype. The problem is

> that those of us who stay in the safe borders of our own profession,

> have little to no knowledge of what other things are happening to

> advance the cause for healing elsewhere.

>

> I recall a time when acupuncture was referred to as balderdash right

> here in the good old USA by the hierarchy conventional medical

> practitioners. How did that make you feel when you knew that you could

> help many people without the use of drugs?

[Guest guest]

I feel the discussion is not appropriate and thus should be avoided. there are too many of us who are on this list to discuss professional chinese medicine realted topicss. I for one loose interest in threads when there is consistent infiltration of non TCM related topics discussed.

EtiAcudoctor5 wrote:

Maya,You are very gracious. At one time in history, something as benign as washing hands was under suspicion. It is sad that flim flam operators do exist, but so do honorable people with true intentions. Such was my offer to share information. If I am under suspicion by some, that issue belongs to the suspicious, if others are curious, curiosity belongs to them. Each person has there own journey to take, as you well know. Fear and suspicion will not further our cause. Enlightenment, and a ballywick of skill will enable and empower us.When I received my training, I sat with approximately 90 health care providers; 60% of whom were chiropractors. It is no secret that chiropractors are very aggressive and are even making it possible within their own ranks to practice acupuncture with a minimum of training in

the USA. I believe it is imperative to empower ourselves as much as possible - in much the same way as any other wise integrative practitioner would. This issue is most certainly mine.As I understand it, the researchers of JMT are both trained in oriental medicine and each was not able to provide more than palliative help to their patients struggling with arthritis. For this reason, I was told, they began to look outside of TCM. As it is explained in a workbook I have, they were not able to consistently demonstrate any demonstrative relief for arthritis in particular. There was no clear evidence of cold or for that matter excesses or stagnaton of any kind in any of the channels. They had tried using the Japanese approach taught by Kiko Matsumoto - but this did not demonstrate any change to the deteriorating cartilage. They sought the help of Dr. William Bensky, OMD, and Dr. Bob Flaws, but were still not able to stop arthritis. The Chinese classics speak of EPF,

recognizing the existance of pathogens, but were not able to provide much more than acknowledgement. This is a quantum leap for Oriental medicine for several reasons. The underlying foundation of this technique supports the concept of energetic medicine. What has been accomplished here has never been accomplished with western medicine. Additionally, the emphasis on the bladder meridian is one of the hallmarks of the technique as are certain other points: St36, Sp3, Li4, Lu7, K3 for instance.Please take the time to read the article in the archives of Alternative Medicine magazine. If I sound like an infomercial, it is certainly not my intention. However, I do not know how to communicate information to those of you who are interested in learning something very valuable without speaking about it.Mark

[Guest guest]

Anyway anybody that claims that the have a "cure"for arthritis should probably go to a non-professional site

Alon

[Guest guest]

Sorry I am a bit late picking up this thread. I feel this discussion hinges on topics important for those in the TCM profession to discuss. When one practices their healing art under legal authority of a license/certification, etc., one is faced with a yin/yang mixture of legal rights and responsibilities. My heart is sympathetic with those who say they wish to find anything they can to help their patients. My head however, warns that a license to practice is defined (however loosely) by a legal scope of practice (SOP) and that when one strays from that scope, one is at best in a legal gray area. A common standard to determine if a procedure/technique is within one's SOP is to ask if it is taught in the "core cirriculum" of the schools that lead to licensure. Having these techniques allowed as Continuing Education is not the same thing. My research, which is fairly recent, suggests that no approved acupuncture school in the U.S. teaches JMT or any other method that employs muscle testing, in their core cirriclum.

 

There are many different techniques that some acupuncturists practice that are clearly not part of TCM (homeopathy or gem/crystal therapy for example) or that mix theories of TCM with non-TCM theories (JMT, or NAET for example). I would like to see more discussion on this topic in our profession (although this group may not be the forum for this). Does a license to practice mean one should be allowed to chose whatever techniques they feel serve their patients best as long as they feel it safe to do so? Should we insist practitioners stay within the scope of TCM/Oriental medicine, especially considering how broad a healing discipline it is? Do those techniques that mix TCM with other theories add to TCM or dilute it?

 

I understand if our moderator does not what to see more on this topic but I really hope our profession can find means to address these issues in the future. Matt Bauer

 

-

Acudoctor5

Chinese Medicine

Monday, June 16, 2003 6:31 PM

Re: [Chinese Medicine] JMT - Another hyped scam?

In a message dated 6/16/2003 8:43:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time, zrosenbe writes:

Whether or not JMT is hype, if this is a traditional Chinese medicine site, what is the point of discussing this on this group? If one of the points of this group is to sell techniques that have a loose relationship with Chinese medicine, please let me know. I personally have no interest in discussing these methods here. I began discussing JMT as a possible technique to help our friend with premature ejaculation. Somebody asked if I would further discuss it. I do believe that anything that can further our ability to resolve disease and suffering outweighs our need to embrace a single philosophy. More than that, everybody should have the opportunity to think for themself. Yes, I agree, if you personally have no interest in discussing this method - don't!Mark (Acudoctor5)