Intro and TCM for pets

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

 

I'm new to the list and fairly ignorant of TCM. I've had some exposure from some Taoists I used to know, but it wasn't much. My vet planted a seed in my little brain last week so I thought I'd try pursuing some TCM. I work with pets for a living. Mostly dogs. I rescue, train, compete Rottweilers and also use them as therapy dogs. I do mostly dog nutrition in my work. My vet felt one of my own dogs was "excessively yang" and suggested feeding meats that were less yang. To say the dog in question is excessively yang is an understatement, and the other 2 in my home are pretty much in the same category. Doing a brief check of my feeding program, I was feeding a lot of yang foods. I'd never thought of this angle before. Could explain some of the behavior I've been seeing. This vet is primarily a homeopath, but his second love is TMC. I started going to him for acupuncture for a disabled dog.

 

I'm reading a book on TMC for dogs and cats. It's a start. But I could also use a food chart that describes warming, neutral and cooling foods, particularly meats and vegetables. Information on herbs would also be very useful. I understand this is not a simple study, but I need to start somewhere.

 

I'd appreciate any input, especially regarding foods.

 

Thanks!

 

Nannette

[Guest guest]

Nannette,

There is a place called Red Wing Books ( 1-800-873-3946) that has a wonderful

FREE catalogue, full of TCM books and related topics. I know for a fact there

is an excellent wall poster in that catalogue for around 30 bucks that

categorizes all the foods in TCM style, i.e. taste, nature, temp, and entering

meridians.

Is your vet in San Diego? There is a rather well trained one there who is

also an acupuncturist. He always has people cook the dog's food, and gives

recipes, and herbs. Maybe those dogs need some shen calming herbs, or something

for

liver qi stagnation, which might mean running/exercising them more so they

act more calm, less aggressive. There is also the Linda Tellington Jones series

on touch for animals. I know she has it for horses, probably dogs too. I bred

pugs, and I noticed that dogs are VERY hormone driven in terms of aggression.

You may want to feed them tofu to tone them down! Anne K. in Clev-oh

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/26/03 7:14:57 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Aknchn writes:

 

Anne, thanks so much for all the great info!

 

<<There is a place called Red Wing Books ( 1-800-873-3946) that has a wonderful

FREE catalogue, full of TCM books and related topics. I know for a fact there

is an excellent wall poster in that catalogue for around 30 bucks that

categorizes all the foods in TCM style, i.e. taste, nature, temp, and entering

meridians.>>

 

Thank you SO much for this info!!!!!! This sounds like a path in the right direction.

 

<<Is your vet in San Diego? There is a rather well trained one there who is

also an acupuncturist.>>

 

No, we're in Colorado.

 

<< He always has people cook the dog's food, and gives

recipes, and herbs. >>

 

We don't cook. :-D My vet, myself, and my employer all raw feed. Years and years ago, I did cook the pet food, but raw is better, and lots less work and mess and time!

 

<<Maybe those dogs need some shen calming herbs, or something for

liver qi stagnation, which might mean running/exercising them more so they

act more calm, less aggressive.>>

 

They are not aggressive, and excerise makes them worse. What herbs would help? I compete them in agility and am starting one, possibly 2, in obedience. The problem is they are just bouncing off the walls. One waits for cars to come by then she chases the car's reflections all around the house. She does this ALL day, it's maddening. and guess what? She's 11 years old so I've given up waiting for her to get older and calmer. She actually gets higher energy as she ages. and she's NOT the one that the vet diagnosed as "excessively yang".

 

<< There is also the Linda Tellington Jones series

on touch for animals. I know she has it for horses, probably dogs too.>>

 

Yes, I have the dog and cat set and would love to take the courses for certification. But it's not offered where I live. TTouch has not helped. It was great for an old cancer dog that I used to have. It calms them, but only briefly. A half hour later they are bouncing off the walls again.

 

<<I bred pugs, and I noticed that dogs are VERY hormone driven in terms of aggression. >>

 

Well, again, I'm not having aggression problems. They have all been spayed/neutered years ago. They are not puppies. The youngest is 7. The girl is a good guard, she is a rescued guard dog, but she's not aggressive, just feels a need to guard the house from shadows and reflections. The boy is down right weird, moves things around the house but never harms them. Has been known to unplug the phone. He's not as annoying as she is but he is also non stop. The other is also non stop and easily worked up.

 

<<You may want to feed them tofu to tone them down! >>

 

 

We really avoid soy and grains for dogs and cats. Is there anything else that's calming? They CAN behave. The bonker 11 year old is very good and well behaved at therapy work, and at agility trials (go figure) but she's horrible at classes and at home. One would think she'd be more off the wall at competition, with the traveling and stress, but no, she's mostly calm and very business like. So they have a clue, it's just the endless fussing at home that is so maddening. They are always ON. No off switch. Not even after days of working and traveling.

 

Plus, I'd love to learn more. So that I can help our clients when we set up diet profiles for their pets.

 

Thanks again!

 

Nannette

[Guest guest]

Maybe those dogs are bored and thats why they act up at home. You say they

behave well when they are 'working " .

I am not sure what to say if the one that chases shadows has only that as the

problem. it sounds like for some reason her nervous system is irritated,

especially by light. I am not experienced enough with this to make an herbal

recommendation. There is a vet in San Diego who is a PCOM grad, and does this

sort

of thing (prescribes for animals) categorically. Try to find someone down

there to get his name. He is rather well known, many of the PCOM faculty used

him

as their vet. Anne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/26/03 7:56:03 PM Mountain Daylight Time, Aknchn writes:

 

<<Maybe those dogs are bored and thats why they act up at home. You say they

behave well when they are 'working". >>

 

They work almost every day, they do need mental time off as they were abusively trained in the past and do need time off from brain work. But they still work a number of days a week and often come with me to my job. I cannot work them 24/7. I have taken them to trials, worked them all day, gone back to the hotel, and boing, boing, boing....

 

<<I am not sure what to say if the one that chases shadows has only that as the

problem. it sounds like for some reason her nervous system is irritated,

especially by light.>>

 

No, of course not, all 3 are bonkers. It's not just light, it's shadow and sounds. The old girl also likes to hang out in the basement so she can fuss at all the noises made by people walking through the house. It's a game for her. If she goes upstairs, she can't fuss as she'll see who is walking around. If you saw her, you'd see this is self entertainment. If not enough people are home for the "fuss at the creaking boards game" she will go in the livingroom and listen for cars so she can wait for reflections and shadows. This is a working breed. She and one of the males invent jobs for themselves. she guards, he moves things.

 

<< I am not experienced enough with this to make an herbal

recommendation. There is a vet in San Diego who is a PCOM grad, and does this sort

of thing (prescribes for animals) categorically. Try to find someone down

there to get his name. He is rather well known, many of the PCOM faculty used him

as their vet. >>

 

 

I think first I'll pursue this with my own vet. He is trained in TCM and is the one that first got me thinking about this being a yang issue, possibly due to diet. (It seemed to me he made the diagnosis through taking the pulse). Again, just about everything I was feeding was yang. Since the diet was excessively yang, I guess it's not surprising that the dogs are excessively yang. I looked at the very brief list in "Four Paws, Five Directions" and chicken, turkey, and lamb are all yang, and that's pretty much what I feed as it's less expensive than the cooler/neutral foods like pork, beef, beef liver, duck and rabbit. Since most of us heavily rely on cheap chicken bones as a calcium source (20 cents or less an lb for breastbones) we feed a lot more of that than we do duck which is at least 1.30 an lb. A local Chinese restaurant was giving me free chicken wings when their supplier over delivered. So yeah, I was feeding lots of chicken.

 

I don't know how long it would take for them to "balance out" diet wise. So was wondering what else might help. The vet didn't feel he could do much for that one particular dog via acupuncture or chiropractic. I guess I need to re-discuss the whole program with the vet.

 

I also figure it's best to still feed some of the hotter foods, but try to balance them out with cooler and neutral foods. Doesn't seem wise to just feed cool or neutral foods. I've heard, and suspect, I'll seriously need to re-taylor the program as I learn more, especially since there is very little TCM geared specifically toward carnivores, it's all based on human TCM. So this might prove to be a fun, exciting, and probably sometimes frustrating pursuit! :-D but I can see the potential and the added benefits for my own crew and those of our clients.

 

Thanks again Anne!

 

Nannette

[Guest guest]

BTW, do the warm, cool, neutral properties of food change if the foods are cooked? I'm curious because we pretty much feed the dogs and cats nothing that is cooked. So I was wondering if cooked vs raw makes a difference regarding the food's properties.

 

Thanks!

 

Nannette