milk production

[Guest guest]

I have a friend of mine who gave birth 3 weeks ago- she's been breastfeeding but

the milk has dried up 2 days ago

I remember learning of certain herbs that helped the body produce more natural

milk, but I can't remember- any help would be appreciated.

 

victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote:> Then in scouring Bensky's

'Formulas and Strategies' I ran across a

section

> on clearing deficiency heat pp100. There were a few things that ran

bells

> like:

>

> " Because the yin and fluids are depleted, the body is unable to

generate

> sweat..........the fact that the patient does not lose his appetite

> indicates the problem is not at the qi level, and the digestive

system is

> relatively unaffected. Nevertheless, injury to the yin and blood

causes a

> general loss of nourishment and thus emaciation'.

 

When the term " level " is used in TCM, the author usually is talking

about the four levels of Virulent Heat Evils or Warm Diseases. The

Virulent Heat model was developed when China began to get hit with

epidemics which overwhelmed the strongest Protective Qi. It was

recognized that the old Six Stages of Cold-Induced Evils was

inadequte in predicting the course of and providing effective

treatment for these new epidemics.

 

The four levels are Protective (Wei), Qi, Nutritive (Ying), and Blood

(Xue). These are further subdivided. For example, Wei-stage Wind

Heat and Wei-stage Wet Heat.

 

As far as Qi Deficiency (as opposed to the Qi-level of a Virulent

Heat Evil), the usual manifestation is loss of appetite. BUT, you'll

run across some cases where the opposite will occur. Instead of loss

of appetite, the individual will have a voracious appetite.

Sometimes, this paradox is related to Stomach Yin Deficiency or Heat

in the Stomach, but not always.

 

I also want to point out that a person can be overweight and still

be " emaciated " . The person is Fluid and Blood Deficient, and this

causes the skin to look wrinkled. This is not a case of the skin

being loose and wrinkled because fat has been lost in a hurry but

because the person lacks needed Fluid and Blood.

>

> I wonder if, starting from a place of low spleen qi and dampness,

if you add

> heat from deficiency, that it's fluid stagnating effect could

create a

> relative lack of fluids (though a lack of fluid flow really)? Then,

> increasing heat could further damage yin, leading to more

deficiency heat -

> a vicious circle? I wonder if this could possibly create a

situation where

> there is accumulation of fat (because of the damp) together with

loss of

> muscle (from the excess heat/deficiency) in late spring/ summer?

 

TCM recognizes that any extreme can change into its opposite. Noon

is the most Yang time of the day, and thereafter Yang starts to wane

and Yin starts to wax until midnight which is the most Yin time of

the day. After midnight Yin starts to wane and Yang to increase.

 

You'll also see things changing into their opposites in health

matters. You've touched on some of them. Dampness damages the

Spleen, thus creating more Dampness because one of the functions of

Spleen Qi is to " transform and transport " Fluids. One of the

symptoms of Qi Deficiency is spontaneous sweating. This can only go

on so long before the person starts to develop Dryness problems. The

clinical picture will be one of mixed Dampness and Dryness. This is

going to be more difficult to treat than either Dampness or Dryness

alone because when you treat one, you often aggravate the other. Dry

the Dampness, and Dryness becomes worse. Moisten the Dryness, and

the Dampness can become worse.

 

There is also the factor of Hot/ Cold not being the same throughout

the body. A common scenario in humans (don't know about horses since

they don't walk upright) is Heat in the Lungs and Heart and Cold

below the waist. (Heat rises.) Treat the Heat, and it can make the

Cold worse. Treat the Cold, and it can make the Heat worse.

 

There are guide herbs which will target specific merdians and Organs,

but I have had mixed success with these. But that probably is due to

there being a lot I still need to learn. I've gotten somewhat better

results with a combination of herbs and acupressure, using the herbs

to treat the Coldness and the acupressure to release Heat.

 

" Heat from deficiency can occur for many reasons. When it arises

during the final stage of a warm-febrile disease when the heat has

depleted the yin or settled into the deep, yin regions of the body,

it is characterized by fever at night which cools by morning.

Chronic injury to the Liver and Kidneys may present with similar

symptoms including tidal fever, steaming bone disorder, or a chronic,

unremitting low-grade fever.

 

" The formulas which are used in treating this type of disorder

consist of herbs that clear heat from deficiency and enrich the yin.

If the signs of deficiency are more pronounced than those of heat,

formulas that tonify the yin should be prescribed (see chapter 8). "

(Chinese Herbal Medicine Formulas & Strategies, DAn Bensky & Randall

Barolet, pp. 100-101.)

 

Yin Deficiency can arise or Yin can be damaged due to a variety of

causes. One of these is a Warm-febrile (fever) disease injuring the

Yin. Heat can damage Yin, which leads to more Heat from Yin

Deficiency. This Heat can transform into " Fire " . The formulas in

this section of Bensky and Barolet are particularly good for cases

where a feverish disease has led to Yin Deficiency. Or, particularly

good for cases where Yin Deficiency is manifesting primarily with

Heat.

 

One phrase you'll see a lot is " Yin Deficiency with Heat " .

Deficiency Heat (not enough Yin to cool the body properly) is not the

only possible manifestation of Yin Deficiency. Yin also calms and

moistens the body. Sometimes the aggitation (not enough Yin to calm)

will predominate. Sometimes the Dryness will predominate. When you

see the phrase " Yin Deficiency with Heat " it means that the

Deficiency Heat symptoms are particularly marked in the individual,

and that Heat needs to be cleared in addition to the Yin being

supplemented.

 

Not any old Heat-clearing formula or herb will do when it comes to

clearing Deficiency Heat. Some of these Heat-clearing herbs will

damage Yin! " Nor should bitter, cold herbs that clear heat be

prescribed, since they will cause further injury to the yin. " (p.

101) Bensky and Barolet also talk about the need for clearing Heat

when Yin Deficiency manifests as Heat: " Once heat has settled in the

body, it is unwise to nourish the yin alone since this will only

serve to trap the heat inside. " (p. 101) This is touching on the

problem of Damp Heat developing. (Yin moistens in addition to cooling

and calming. If Heat is present, that moistening can turn into Damp-

Heat.)

 

There may be some difficulties in analzying " Steaming Bone Disorder "

in animals since the main symptom relies on the individual being able

to report a feeling of heat deep inside though the body even though

the skin feels normal. This disorder frequently shows up in

connection with what is called diabetes in the West. The Bensky and

Barolet description of the herbs used in this formula does offer

insights into herbs to use when Heat needs to be cleared but you

don't want to do it via sweating because the individual is sweating

too much already because of Qi Deficiency, and further sweating will

damage the Qi further.

 

I've emphasized some of the things you've said as a way of helping

you sort out which came first and how to approach healing in this

particular individual.

 

Victoria

 

>

> On pp102, in the Analysis of 'Cool the Bones powder' Qing Gu san,

he says:

>

> '.... although yin must be nourished to ensure any lasting benefit,

the

> primary focus should be on clearing heat from deficiency. The

substances

> that perform this function are different from the bitter, cold

substances

> that clear heat excess, since the latter would injure the yin. The

> distinction of this formula is it utilises most of the major

substances that

> specifically clear heat from deficiency............Yin Chai Hu

reduces the

> fever from deficiency without any of the draining tendancies that

could

> further injure the yin. " In addition the deputies in the

formula 'vent heat

> externally'.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 7/20/03 11:46:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

purekarm writes:

 

> I have a friend of mine who gave birth 3 weeks ago- she's been

> breastfeeding but the milk has dried up 2 days ago

> I remember learning of certain herbs that helped the body produce more

> natural milk, but I can't remember- any help would be appreciated.

>

 

Need to know the what else is going on. Below are 2 that might help

 

Qi and Blood Vacuity

Formula Tong Ru Dan

Acupuncture Ren-17, St-18, Bl-20 St-36, SI-1

 

Liver Qi Stagnation

Formula Xia Ru Yong Quan San

Acupuncture Ren-17, St-18, SI-1, P-6, Liv-3

 

Stan

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> I have a friend of mine who gave birth 3 weeks ago- she's been

breastfeeding but the milk has dried up 2 days ago

> I remember learning of certain herbs that helped the body produce more

natural milk, but I can't remember- any help would be appreciated.

 

Vitex Agnus Castus is used for that purpose I understand.

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Hello.

There's a recipe which may help .

It's for women after have birth or people overcoming some illness with

severe loss of qi and xue.

 

One chicken

10 cm of fresh ginger

2 tablespoon of black sesame

10 ml of some alcoolic rice drink (or similar)

water.

 

Cut the chicken and ginger into small pieces. Add black sesame as preparing

a kind of gravy, just with those things.

When it seems to be fried, add the alcoolic rice drink, stir a little more,

put a lot of water, reduce fire and let it cook " forever " ...the pacient must

eat this consommé several times a day.

You may cook just half of everything, and than when it finished, cook the

rest.

Sorry for my english...and if you got any doubt, be confortable to ask.

Roberta

It's very effective.

[Guest guest]

marshmallow & alfalfa

 

purekarm <purekarm wrote:I have a friend of mine who gave birth 3

weeks ago- she's been breastfeeding but the milk has dried up 2 days ago

I remember learning of certain herbs that helped the body produce more natural

milk, but I can't remember- any help would be appreciated.

 

victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote:> Then in scouring Bensky's

'Formulas and Strategies' I ran across a

section

> on clearing deficiency heat pp100. There were a few things that ran

bells

> like:

>

> " Because the yin and fluids are depleted, the body is unable to

generate

> sweat..........the fact that the patient does not lose his appetite

> indicates the problem is not at the qi level, and the digestive

system is

> relatively unaffected. Nevertheless, injury to the yin and blood

causes a

> general loss of nourishment and thus emaciation'.

 

When the term " level " is used in TCM, the author usually is talking

about the four levels of Virulent Heat Evils or Warm Diseases. The

Virulent Heat model was developed when China began to get hit with

epidemics which overwhelmed the strongest Protective Qi. It was

recognized that the old Six Stages of Cold-Induced Evils was

inadequte in predicting the course of and providing effective

treatment for these new epidemics.

 

The four levels are Protective (Wei), Qi, Nutritive (Ying), and Blood

(Xue). These are further subdivided. For example, Wei-stage Wind

Heat and Wei-stage Wet Heat.

 

As far as Qi Deficiency (as opposed to the Qi-level of a Virulent

Heat Evil), the usual manifestation is loss of appetite. BUT, you'll

run across some cases where the opposite will occur. Instead of loss

of appetite, the individual will have a voracious appetite.

Sometimes, this paradox is related to Stomach Yin Deficiency or Heat

in the Stomach, but not always.

 

I also want to point out that a person can be overweight and still

be " emaciated " . The person is Fluid and Blood Deficient, and this

causes the skin to look wrinkled. This is not a case of the skin

being loose and wrinkled because fat has been lost in a hurry but

because the person lacks needed Fluid and Blood.

>

> I wonder if, starting from a place of low spleen qi and dampness,

if you add

> heat from deficiency, that it's fluid stagnating effect could

create a

> relative lack of fluids (though a lack of fluid flow really)? Then,

> increasing heat could further damage yin, leading to more

deficiency heat -

> a vicious circle? I wonder if this could possibly create a

situation where

> there is accumulation of fat (because of the damp) together with

loss of

> muscle (from the excess heat/deficiency) in late spring/ summer?

 

TCM recognizes that any extreme can change into its opposite. Noon

is the most Yang time of the day, and thereafter Yang starts to wane

and Yin starts to wax until midnight which is the most Yin time of

the day. After midnight Yin starts to wane and Yang to increase.

 

You'll also see things changing into their opposites in health

matters. You've touched on some of them. Dampness damages the

Spleen, thus creating more Dampness because one of the functions of

Spleen Qi is to " transform and transport " Fluids. One of the

symptoms of Qi Deficiency is spontaneous sweating. This can only go

on so long before the person starts to develop Dryness problems. The

clinical picture will be one of mixed Dampness and Dryness. This is

going to be more difficult to treat than either Dampness or Dryness

alone because when you treat one, you often aggravate the other. Dry

the Dampness, and Dryness becomes worse. Moisten the Dryness, and

the Dampness can become worse.

 

There is also the factor of Hot/ Cold not being the same throughout

the body. A common scenario in humans (don't know about horses since

they don't walk upright) is Heat in the Lungs and Heart and Cold

below the waist. (Heat rises.) Treat the Heat, and it can make the

Cold worse. Treat the Cold, and it can make the Heat worse.

 

There are guide herbs which will target specific merdians and Organs,

but I have had mixed success with these. But that probably is due to

there being a lot I still need to learn. I've gotten somewhat better

results with a combination of herbs and acupressure, using the herbs

to treat the Coldness and the acupressure to release Heat.

 

" Heat from deficiency can occur for many reasons. When it arises

during the final stage of a warm-febrile disease when the heat has

depleted the yin or settled into the deep, yin regions of the body,

it is characterized by fever at night which cools by morning.

Chronic injury to the Liver and Kidneys may present with similar

symptoms including tidal fever, steaming bone disorder, or a chronic,

unremitting low-grade fever.

 

" The formulas which are used in treating this type of disorder

consist of herbs that clear heat from deficiency and enrich the yin.

If the signs of deficiency are more pronounced than those of heat,

formulas that tonify the yin should be prescribed (see chapter 8). "

(Chinese Herbal Medicine Formulas & Strategies, DAn Bensky & Randall

Barolet, pp. 100-101.)

 

Yin Deficiency can arise or Yin can be damaged due to a variety of

causes. One of these is a Warm-febrile (fever) disease injuring the

Yin. Heat can damage Yin, which leads to more Heat from Yin

Deficiency. This Heat can transform into " Fire " . The formulas in

this section of Bensky and Barolet are particularly good for cases

where a feverish disease has led to Yin Deficiency. Or, particularly

good for cases where Yin Deficiency is manifesting primarily with

Heat.

 

One phrase you'll see a lot is " Yin Deficiency with Heat " .

Deficiency Heat (not enough Yin to cool the body properly) is not the

only possible manifestation of Yin Deficiency. Yin also calms and

moistens the body. Sometimes the aggitation (not enough Yin to calm)

will predominate. Sometimes the Dryness will predominate. When you

see the phrase " Yin Deficiency with Heat " it means that the

Deficiency Heat symptoms are particularly marked in the individual,

and that Heat needs to be cleared in addition to the Yin being

supplemented.

 

Not any old Heat-clearing formula or herb will do when it comes to

clearing Deficiency Heat. Some of these Heat-clearing herbs will

damage Yin! " Nor should bitter, cold herbs that clear heat be

prescribed, since they will cause further injury to the yin. " (p.

101) Bensky and Barolet also talk about the need for clearing Heat

when Yin Deficiency manifests as Heat: " Once heat has settled in the

body, it is unwise to nourish the yin alone since this will only

serve to trap the heat inside. " (p. 101) This is touching on the

problem of Damp Heat developing. (Yin moistens in addition to cooling

and calming. If Heat is present, that moistening can turn into Damp-

Heat.)

 

There may be some difficulties in analzying " Steaming Bone Disorder "

in animals since the main symptom relies on the individual being able

to report a feeling of heat deep inside though the body even though

the skin feels normal. This disorder frequently shows up in

connection with what is called diabetes in the West. The Bensky and

Barolet description of the herbs used in this formula does offer

insights into herbs to use when Heat needs to be cleared but you

don't want to do it via sweating because the individual is sweating

too much already because of Qi Deficiency, and further sweating will

damage the Qi further.

 

I've emphasized some of the things you've said as a way of helping

you sort out which came first and how to approach healing in this

particular individual.

 

Victoria

 

>

> On pp102, in the Analysis of 'Cool the Bones powder' Qing Gu san,

he says:

>

> '.... although yin must be nourished to ensure any lasting benefit,

the

> primary focus should be on clearing heat from deficiency. The

substances

> that perform this function are different from the bitter, cold

substances

> that clear heat excess, since the latter would injure the yin. The

> distinction of this formula is it utilises most of the major

substances that

> specifically clear heat from deficiency............Yin Chai Hu

reduces the

> fever from deficiency without any of the draining tendancies that

could

> further injure the yin. " In addition the deputies in the

formula 'vent heat

> externally'.

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

to produce ample breast milk, a mother if eats white caraway seeds --just a

quaurter of tea spoonful with water it is very effective. and also if amother

eats lot of fish that too helps.

regards

tanveer

 

jackie <jackie wrote:

 

 

 

> I have a friend of mine who gave birth 3 weeks ago- she's been

breastfeeding but the milk has dried up 2 days ago

> I remember learning of certain herbs that helped the body produce more

natural milk, but I can't remember- any help would be appreciated.

 

Vitex Agnus Castus is used for that purpose I understand.

 

Jackie

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Mother's milk is a byproduct of the Small intestine by virtue of the SI

creating the opaque fluids, part of the " jin-ye " or body fluids which

includes opaque fluids as well as clear fluids. The Large Intestine

creates the clear fluids, for the record.

 

For this reason, some use SI 4, the Yuan/Source point for insufficient

lactation to stimulate the SI's function of creating the opaque fluids,

or mother's milk.

 

Mu Tong with Huang Qi and Dang Gui is used for lactation issues due to

qi deficiency., They may be in the formulas mentioned below. Also,

Bensky mentions cooking Mu Tong with pig's feet and Chuan Shan Jia

(anteater scales) to open up the lactation too.

 

On Sunday, July 20, 2003, at 04:13 PM, KarateStan wrote:

 

> In a message dated 7/20/03 11:46:11 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> purekarm writes:

>

>> I have a friend of mine who gave birth 3 weeks ago- she's been

>> breastfeeding but the milk has dried up 2 days ago

>> I remember learning of certain herbs that helped the body produce more

>> natural milk, but I can't remember- any help would be appreciated.

>>

>

> Need to know the what else is going on. Below are 2 that might help

>

> Qi and Blood Vacuity

> Formula Tong Ru Dan

> Acupuncture Ren-17, St-18, Bl-20 St-36, SI-1

>

> Liver Qi Stagnation

> Formula Xia Ru Yong Quan San

> Acupuncture Ren-17, St-18, SI-1, P-6, Liv-3

>

> Stan

>

>

>