Elements and the seasons - horse.

[Guest guest]

I don't quite understand the effect of the change of season on the organs,

specifically in relation to understanding what best to do for my horse.

 

I've been consulting with a Chinese herbalist in CA who works a lot with

horses, and finally someone took note of the full case history, and agrees

with the conclusions from the very first discussions we had on here. Kidney

deficiency, particularly yin, seem to be at the root of this horses

problems.

 

I made good progress with a base formula heavily weighted towards Bai Shao,

totally settled the Li/St symptoms, though I had to keep increasing as

spring turned to summer.

 

For the first time inn this horse I confirmed signs of lumber/hind

discomfort, with increasing general debility, and started thinking about

Heart/Kidney. He seemed to tolerate a kidney yin/heart/cooling formula to

start with, but concurrent with the addition of 'just a touch more' Kd

essence tonics there was a total 'meltdown' - and a dose of laminitis

(potentially life-threatening ischemic inflammation of the feet). There were

other 'mechanical' factors going on, so I cannot be sure it was the herbs

alone - but they did seem to precipitate a sudden rapid decline.

 

Luckily he made an astonishing overnight turnaround with the help of

NSAID's, acepromazine, and topical qi and blood movers in a linament - and

should be OK to go out again after a week on box rest with a daily short

stroll.

 

It seems just as I could not touch the Liver with anything except peony at

first, the Kidney seems to be hypersensitive to any attempt to alleviate the

problem. There aren't any signs of raging heat as far as I can tell - no

sweating, fever or anything of that ilk, no anxiety or hyperactive mental

stuff. He has on a few occasions been quite cold in the mornings, and seemed

cheerful and peaceful, content. But, inflammation in the feet is very easy

to, well, inflame.

 

So, my question with regard to the seasons - Liver energy rises in the

spring, so lots of Li problems become evident in the spring, which fits his

pattern. I have been told Spring is a good time to treat the Liver - but

howso? Is that solely from the persepective of spring being the time the

liver needs treating, or is it somehow easier or more effective then?

 

Winter is the season of the kidney - but what exactly does that mean? Is the

Kidney happier then, stronger, more active - what? Why are people more

vulnerable to cold/damage to Kd in winter if winter is 'the Kd season'?

Winter is the one time my horse has no problems - why would this be so if Kd

weakness is the root of the problem? Is it just that there is no Lv problem

at that time of year I wonder, or less need for yin from the Kidney

generally, so less 'drain' on the system?

 

I wonder if, like with the Liver, people with long term Kd weakness need

very gentle, slow Kd tonification sometimes? I thought that treating the Kd

yin in summer, when it was having the most problem, should bring instant

relief - but would winter be an easier time to boost kd, more likely to 'go

with the flow' or something??

 

Any insight welcome.

 

Also I wonder if yin tonics ability to damage the Spleen is solely related

to digestion, or metabolism as well? Do, for instance, people with weight

problems/weak spleen/dampness tend to gain weight on yin formulas?

 

That is my fear - but if there is no digestive upset, can I assume that the

metabolism is not being depressed either?

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

> I don't quite understand the effect of the change of season on the

organs,

> specifically in relation to understanding what best to do for my

horse.

 

(snip)

 

> So, my question with regard to the seasons - Liver energy rises in

the

> spring, so lots of Li problems become evident in the spring, which

fits his

> pattern. I have been told Spring is a good time to treat the Liver -

but

> howso? Is that solely from the persepective of spring being the

time the

> liver needs treating, or is it somehow easier or more effective

then?

>

> Winter is the season of the kidney - but what exactly does that

mean? Is the

> Kidney happier then, stronger, more active - what? Why are people

more

> vulnerable to cold/damage to Kd in winter if winter is 'the Kd

season'?

> Winter is the one time my horse has no problems - why would this be

so if Kd

> weakness is the root of the problem? Is it just that there is no Lv

problem

> at that time of year I wonder, or less need for yin from the Kidney

> generally, so less 'drain' on the system?

 

The seasons provide specific energies in abundance. These can be a

detriment or a plus to the individual depending on what (if any)

imbalances are present. Winter is the most Yin time of the year, so

your horse is getting more Yin energy from the environment than he

gets at other times of the year. The Yin of the winter is

supplementing him.

 

I had the reverse problem - primary Kidney Yang Deficiency. I did

better in warmer months than in the cold months because the summer

was providing me with some of the Yang and Heat I so desperately

needed. I loved the summer, and hated the winter as a result. I

didn't have enough Yang to warm up adequately when it was hot, not

less when it was cold.

 

Many TCM healers will ask if the person does better or worse during

particular seasons of the year. The preference for specific seasons

are particularly noticable when it comes to Heat and Cold imbalances,

but also can reveal glues to other imbalances. Back a long time ago

when I had Dampness problems, I did very well during the fall.

Dryness tends to predominate in autumn, and early fall was still warm

enough to heat me. I loved living in the desert at first because it

was so dry. But because I merely changed environments and didn't

also address internal imbalances (didn't know about TCM back then), I

eventually developed Dryness problems. Today I do better with higher

humidity than with dryness.

 

These is another factor which seldom gets discussed on here or given

much more than surface mention in basic texts. That is which way

energy is moving - up, down, outward, inward. Some herbs are

included in formulas simply because of the impact they have on

direction of energy flow. For example, when Stomach Qi is Rebelling

(resulting in belching, vomiting, acid reflux, etc.) one wants to get

the Stomach Qi to descend like it should. On the other hand, Spleen

Qi is supposed to rise, so when it descends instead the individual

may suffer from prolapsed organs.

 

The seasons also affect direction of energy flow. Summer is the

season of greatest Heat, Yang, rising and outward energy. Winter is

the season of greatest Yin, Cold, descending and inward energy. In

the spring, energy is starting to rise. The nature of spring is that

it doesn't just rise, it surges. Spring also is the season when Wind

tends to be the predomiate atmosperic condition. If the individual

already is suffering from internal Wind (caused by Blood Deficiency,

extreme Heat, or Liver Yang Rising (which has a basis of Liver Yin

Deficiency)), spring can be a very trying time. The Wind of the

season is being added to the internal Wind.

 

> I wonder if, like with the Liver, people with long term Kd weakness

need

> very gentle, slow Kd tonification sometimes? I thought that

treating the Kd

> yin in summer, when it was having the most problem, should bring

instant

> relief - but would winter be an easier time to boost kd, more

likely to 'go

> with the flow' or something??

 

Kidney Yin and Yang imbalances can take a very long time to treat. I

was warned by more than one person that this is the case, and they

were right.

 

Also keep in mind that is Kidney Yin Deficiency is present, Kidney

Yang Deficiency is almost sure to be present too (though in lesser

degree) and vice versa. I was so Kidney Yang Deficient that it just

about totally masked the Kidney Yin Deficiency symptoms. As I

responded to treatment and was no longer so Yang Deficient, the

symptoms of Kidney Yin Deficiency became more apparent and I had to

pay more attention to them.

 

In the summer I take more Kidney Yin tonic herbs and less Kidney Yang

tonic herbs than I take in the winter. I'm getting part of the Yang

I need from the season in the summer, and part of the Yin I need from

the season in the winter.

 

In addition I'm learning that in my particular case, I also needed to

pay more attention to the Blood Deficiency problem. I want to stress

again that the TCM concept of Blood is not equivalent to blood. The

concept of Blood includes the blood that flows in the veins, but is

not limited to that. In TCM Blood moistens and nourishes the tissues

of the body. It also plays a key role in Yin and Yang balance. In

other words, if Blood Deficiency is present - especially if it's long-

term Blood Deficiency - it can be harder to balance Yin and Yang than

it would be. So far all I've been albe to find on this is scattered

references in a few books. Perhaps someone on here can post more

details on the role Blood plays in Yin-Yang balance.

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

> The seasons provide specific energies in abundance. These can be a

> detriment or a plus to the individual depending on what (if any)

> imbalances are present. Winter is the most Yin time of the year, so

> your horse is getting more Yin energy from the environment than he

> gets at other times of the year. The Yin of the winter is

> supplementing him.

 

Right, got it, that makes sense. So does kidney function itself change - I

would guess it is more engaged in 'yin activities' (if you'll excuse the

contradiction)??

 

 

> Also keep in mind that is Kidney Yin Deficiency is present, Kidney

> Yang Deficiency is almost sure to be present too (though in lesser

> degree) and vice versa.

 

It is very evident - I just don't dare touch it yet - I think it just got me

in big trouble.

 

I was so Kidney Yang Deficient that it just

> about totally masked the Kidney Yin Deficiency symptoms. As I

> responded to treatment and was no longer so Yang Deficient, the

> symptoms of Kidney Yin Deficiency became more apparent and I had to

> pay more attention to them.

 

Yes, I think I must go that way. I had avoided all-out classic yin

deficiency formulas because he has so many yang/spleen deficiency signs as

well, but maybe I need to try that first, and wait until things cool down in

autumn.

 

Thanks Victoria. Would you mind if I shared some of your words?

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

I would like to put in my two cents worth on horses. I have trained horses and

raised Arabs and Appaloosas for a few years and have been through the goodtimes

and the bad. The problem I find is our lack of understanding our horses

individually their personality and makeup of their strengths and weaknesses. I

never had many problems with them.

 

One problem that I never faced was what happens to a horse during the winter

time. Most people shut them down and they feed them, but don't work them, so ,

they become idle and lethargic, eating and not exercising enough to compensate

for their idileness.

 

Look around and see the people and what has happened to them because of this

problem.

 

I worked my horses the same year around because they are like humans, if they

stop doing they then become susceptible to the same problems we do. Overweight,

short winded, colds, fever, and whatever else that comes along.

 

I also gave them a day of rest to settle down and enjoy being free and being a

horse.

 

How do we keep ourselves from becoming sick or overweight? By doing what is

necessary to stay fit so we don't come down with the ailments that we can

possibly come down with.

 

Animals have to stay fit in order to have a good life and enjoy it just like us.

Horses like other animals come down with problems whether it is spring, summer,

fall or, winter. And it can be traced to whatever we have neglected to do for

them. or, they could do for themselves, meaning, not allowing them to exercise

enough to stay fit.

 

Such as exercise during the winter, not feeding good food, Not checking whether

the horse is coming down with something all the time. Not reading the signs of

problems the animal is showing.

 

One of the biggest problems I have seen over the years is changing our animals

in to being humans. Such as, putting coats on dogs in winter, blankets on horses

in winter, feeding them less then appropiate food, going to a vet everytime an

animal comes down with some problem and getting shots.

 

Folks these are antibiotics and they have the same effect on animals as they do

on humans. It is called dependency. This kills their immune system just like it

does ours.

 

Ever hear, if you don't use it you lose it? This is why we have kids now sicker

and dependent more on drugs thenever. No different with animals.

 

An animal can get an ailment anytime during the year what is our job then? we

have made it simple run to the vet and get a shot, but is that the best process?

 

If your animal whatever it may be comes down with something you can do several

things, run tio the vet and get a quick fix, or, go to the vet to see what the

problem might be and look for something other than a drug to cure it.

 

The hardest one is the last one and this is what I did all the time and in the

process became very good at diagnosing the problems. I did a tremendous amount

of reading to know my animals and the problems they could have.

 

Before I went in to raising horses I talked to all the oldtimers who had healthy

horses and used them constantly how they kept them so healthy the answer was

stay away from the vet as much as possible. Give your own shots only natural

medicines. Watch what you feed your horses and this goes for any other animal.

 

If your horse has a problem whatever it may be you findout what will heal it. Do

reading of the problem, maybe go to the vet for a diagnosis, but you find the

natural remedy for the problem.

 

I hate to say this, but we make things much harder then we need to if we will

just take time to learn what we can do and not just watch.

 

I hope this will help. I don't have all the answers but from first hand

experience I have found a lot of them through just thinking the problem out.

 

Sincerely

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

 

victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote:

> I don't quite understand the effect of the change of season on the

organs,

> specifically in relation to understanding what best to do for my

horse.

 

(snip)

 

> So, my question with regard to the seasons - Liver energy rises in

the

> spring, so lots of Li problems become evident in the spring, which

fits his

> pattern. I have been told Spring is a good time to treat the Liver -

but

> howso? Is that solely from the persepective of spring being the

time the

> liver needs treating, or is it somehow easier or more effective

then?

>

> Winter is the season of the kidney - but what exactly does that

mean? Is the

> Kidney happier then, stronger, more active - what? Why are people

more

> vulnerable to cold/damage to Kd in winter if winter is 'the Kd

season'?

> Winter is the one time my horse has no problems - why would this be

so if Kd

> weakness is the root of the problem? Is it just that there is no Lv

problem

> at that time of year I wonder, or less need for yin from the Kidney

> generally, so less 'drain' on the system?

 

The seasons provide specific energies in abundance. These can be a

detriment or a plus to the individual depending on what (if any)

imbalances are present. Winter is the most Yin time of the year, so

your horse is getting more Yin energy from the environment than he

gets at other times of the year. The Yin of the winter is

supplementing him.

 

I had the reverse problem - primary Kidney Yang Deficiency. I did

better in warmer months than in the cold months because the summer

was providing me with some of the Yang and Heat I so desperately

needed. I loved the summer, and hated the winter as a result. I

didn't have enough Yang to warm up adequately when it was hot, not

less when it was cold.

 

Many TCM healers will ask if the person does better or worse during

particular seasons of the year. The preference for specific seasons

are particularly noticable when it comes to Heat and Cold imbalances,

but also can reveal glues to other imbalances. Back a long time ago

when I had Dampness problems, I did very well during the fall.

Dryness tends to predominate in autumn, and early fall was still warm

enough to heat me. I loved living in the desert at first because it

was so dry. But because I merely changed environments and didn't

also address internal imbalances (didn't know about TCM back then), I

eventually developed Dryness problems. Today I do better with higher

humidity than with dryness.

 

These is another factor which seldom gets discussed on here or given

much more than surface mention in basic texts. That is which way

energy is moving - up, down, outward, inward. Some herbs are

included in formulas simply because of the impact they have on

direction of energy flow. For example, when Stomach Qi is Rebelling

(resulting in belching, vomiting, acid reflux, etc.) one wants to get

the Stomach Qi to descend like it should. On the other hand, Spleen

Qi is supposed to rise, so when it descends instead the individual

may suffer from prolapsed organs.

 

The seasons also affect direction of energy flow. Summer is the

season of greatest Heat, Yang, rising and outward energy. Winter is

the season of greatest Yin, Cold, descending and inward energy. In

the spring, energy is starting to rise. The nature of spring is that

it doesn't just rise, it surges. Spring also is the season when Wind

tends to be the predomiate atmosperic condition. If the individual

already is suffering from internal Wind (caused by Blood Deficiency,

extreme Heat, or Liver Yang Rising (which has a basis of Liver Yin

Deficiency)), spring can be a very trying time. The Wind of the

season is being added to the internal Wind.

 

> I wonder if, like with the Liver, people with long term Kd weakness

need

> very gentle, slow Kd tonification sometimes? I thought that

treating the Kd

> yin in summer, when it was having the most problem, should bring

instant

> relief - but would winter be an easier time to boost kd, more

likely to 'go

> with the flow' or something??

 

Kidney Yin and Yang imbalances can take a very long time to treat. I

was warned by more than one person that this is the case, and they

were right.

 

Also keep in mind that is Kidney Yin Deficiency is present, Kidney

Yang Deficiency is almost sure to be present too (though in lesser

degree) and vice versa. I was so Kidney Yang Deficient that it just

about totally masked the Kidney Yin Deficiency symptoms. As I

responded to treatment and was no longer so Yang Deficient, the

symptoms of Kidney Yin Deficiency became more apparent and I had to

pay more attention to them.

 

In the summer I take more Kidney Yin tonic herbs and less Kidney Yang

tonic herbs than I take in the winter. I'm getting part of the Yang

I need from the season in the summer, and part of the Yin I need from

the season in the winter.

 

In addition I'm learning that in my particular case, I also needed to

pay more attention to the Blood Deficiency problem. I want to stress

again that the TCM concept of Blood is not equivalent to blood. The

concept of Blood includes the blood that flows in the veins, but is

not limited to that. In TCM Blood moistens and nourishes the tissues

of the body. It also plays a key role in Yin and Yang balance. In

other words, if Blood Deficiency is present - especially if it's long-

term Blood Deficiency - it can be harder to balance Yin and Yang than

it would be. So far all I've been albe to find on this is scattered

references in a few books. Perhaps someone on here can post more

details on the role Blood plays in Yin-Yang balance.

 

Victoria

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> > The seasons provide specific energies in abundance. These can be

a

> > detriment or a plus to the individual depending on what (if any)

> > imbalances are present. Winter is the most Yin time of the year,

so

> > your horse is getting more Yin energy from the environment than he

> > gets at other times of the year. The Yin of the winter is

> > supplementing him.

>

> Right, got it, that makes sense. So does kidney function itself

change - I

> would guess it is more engaged in 'yin activities' (if you'll

excuse the

> contradiction)??

 

I don't believe Kidney function changes. The Kidneys are always

supplying Yang and Yin to the rest of the body year round. What

changes is the boost Yin or Yang gets from the environment.

 

One thing I forgot to mention is that Cold attacks Yang, and Heat

damages Yin. So in addition to a Kidney Yang Deficient person

needing to warm up more in the winter, the Cold also further

diminishes what little Kidney Yang the person has. Not only does the

season not supply a lot of Yang in the winter, the Cold is attacking

and further diminishing what little Yang the person has. In the

summer the season not only is not supplying much in the way of Yin,

the Heat is further damaging what little Yang the individual who is

primarily Kidney Yin Deficient has.

 

> I was so Kidney Yang Deficient that it just

> > about totally masked the Kidney Yin Deficiency symptoms. As I

> > responded to treatment and was no longer so Yang Deficient, the

> > symptoms of Kidney Yin Deficiency became more apparent and I had

to

> > pay more attention to them.

>

> Yes, I think I must go that way. I had avoided all-out classic yin

> deficiency formulas because he has so many yang/spleen deficiency

signs as

> well, but maybe I need to try that first, and wait until things

cool down in

> autumn.

 

This may be the very time to try the Kidney Yin formulas since Yang

is getting a boost from the season. Some of the clinical

practitioners on the list may have other suggestions.

 

> Thanks Victoria. Would you mind if I shared some of your words?

 

Permission given. Just give credit to the source.

[Guest guest]

> I don't believe Kidney function changes.

 

Hmm, hard to tell how much is the influence of the season and how

much is innate, in just tune with the seasons. I am sure animals show

annual cycles more because they have breeding seasons etc anyway.

 

>

> One thing I forgot to mention is that Cold attacks Yang, and Heat

> damages Yin.

 

Of course, yes I see..

 

> This may be the very time to try the Kidney Yin formulas since Yang

> is getting a boost from the season.

 

That's a good point. Trouble is he is in such a precarious state and

I am just so unsure of the action of Kd herbs from an endocrine

perspective - there are some reports of them doing exactly the

opposite of what I want, and I am afraid to exacerbate things. Yin

deficiency is known to produce raised cortisol and insulin. But

rehmannia is believed, by one author at least, to exert an anti-

inflammatory influence by raising cortisol. I wish I could find

conformation of that one way or another.

 

It may be that in a stressed human for instance with first stage

adrenal exhaustion cortisol is high, but it needs to go even higher

for a time to 'overcome' the stress, and then it will reduce. But

that temporary high might founder a horse - I just don't know.

 

At least in the winter I have some leeway, he is not so fragile.

 

> Permission given. Just give credit to the source.

 

W'll do.

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

> Animals have to stay fit in order to have a good life and enjoy it

just like us. Horses like other animals come down with problems

whether it is spring, summer, fall or, winter. And it can be traced

to whatever we have neglected to do for them. or, they could do for

themselves, meaning, not allowing them to exercise enough to stay fit.

 

Sometimes it can indeed - not in this case. Sometimes horses get sick

in spite of everything known to man being done correctly to preserve

and enhance their wellbeing.

 

> If your horse has a problem whatever it may be you findout what

will heal it.

 

LOL, yea right. And sometimes that takes in excess of 17 years!

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Dear Jackie,

 

I am sorry I don't catch the complete understanding of your message. I think

maybe you misunderstood something I said.

 

Yes, animals like humans can get sick all of a sudden and we wonder why,

especially when we have taken steps to keep it from happening.

 

Here is one of my beliefs why it happens, now you may not agree with it, but

this is ok because, we have the right to disagree. In many cases I have seen and

watched people do some strange things with their animals.

 

Everytime a horse or dog had a little problem they called the vet. and he

administered to the animal. I watch this phenomenon amongst people, especially

with kids and compare it with animals.

 

We have more kids today with medical problems then ever in history, why? We have

more people with problems thenever before in history, why?

 

This is not hard to figure out. They have no immune system left to fight disease

or sickness. why? It has been destroyed by anti-biotics.

 

Animals have an outstanding immune system and can survive almost anything

building their immune system even more. But like with our kids we run to the

vet. everytime and get the animal shots of anti-biotics.

 

Here is something to remember, synthetics are rejected by the body and causes

some very bad side effects. The same in animals.

 

The more natural you leave them and feed them the healthier they are and will

stay. I never had a sick horse or dog and I raised them both for along time.

 

This is not bragging or waving the flag for me, it is saying, it can be done.

 

Thanks

 

Ray

 

danceswithmeena <jackie wrote:

 

> Animals have to stay fit in order to have a good life and enjoy it

just like us. Horses like other animals come down with problems

whether it is spring, summer, fall or, winter. And it can be traced

to whatever we have neglected to do for them. or, they could do for

themselves, meaning, not allowing them to exercise enough to stay fit.

 

Sometimes it can indeed - not in this case. Sometimes horses get sick

in spite of everything known to man being done correctly to preserve

and enhance their wellbeing.

 

> If your horse has a problem whatever it may be you findout what

will heal it.

 

LOL, yea right. And sometimes that takes in excess of 17 years!

 

Jackie

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> This is not hard to figure out. They have no immune system left to fight

disease or sickness. why? It has been destroyed by anti-biotics.

 

I simply do not think your point applies to that much sickness, certainly

not to my horse's anyway, which has nothing to do with a lack of immunity

IMO. Judging by the fact he never gets any infections, and never needs any

antibiotics, I 'd say his immune system was pretty healthy.

 

> Animals have an outstanding immune system and can survive almost anything

building their immune system even more. But like with our kids we run to the

vet. everytime and get the animal shots of anti-biotics.

 

Well some may - I don't know one though. I believe you assume too much -

many horses are healthy, some are not, and mine in particular was born with

an endocrinological imbalance it seems, and one only definable in the TCM

paradigm.

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

> I don't believe Kidney function changes. The Kidneys are always

> supplying Yang and Yin to the rest of the body year round. What

> changes is the boost Yin or Yang gets from the environment.

>

> One thing I forgot to mention is that Cold attacks Yang, and Heat

> damages Yin. So in addition to a Kidney Yang Deficient person

> needing to warm up more in the winter, the Cold also further

> diminishes what little Kidney Yang the person has. Not only does the

> season not supply a lot of Yang in the winter, the Cold is attacking

> and further diminishing what little Yang the person has. In the

> summer the season not only is not supplying much in the way of Yin,

> the Heat is further damaging what little Yin the individual who is

> primarily Kidney Yin Deficient has.

 

You know I had something of a revelation. Most of my horse's more obvious

symptoms are hypothyroid - not because his thyroid is not producing

thyroxine, but becaue too much of it is held bound to carrier proteins in

the blood - he has a low Free T4.

 

He's been on thyroxine for that for just over a year, and although it

alleviates some of his symptoms, being 'yang' it's going to be making his

yin deficiency even worse isn't it, especially in summer?!

 

The interesting thing was it was tried at an increasing dosage, and although

the T4 level went up, the FT4 was actually depressed even further, as though

his body was somehow compensating to prevent it rising to normal levels,

which western medicine has no explanation for. Makes perfect sense in the

TCM paradigm though doesn't it!

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

> You know I had something of a revelation. Most of my horse's more

obvious

> symptoms are hypothyroid - not because his thyroid is not producing

> thyroxine, but becaue too much of it is held bound to carrier

proteins in

> the blood - he has a low Free T4.

 

The next question is why are the carrier proteins holding onto the T4

so tightly so it isn't available? There are some things to research.

 

PH is one of them. Western medicine has barely scrathed the surface

of considering pH in health problems because it's assumed that in

most cases the body's buffering systems - especially for the blood -

are keeping the pH within a fairly narrow and optimal range. But

there are examples throughout nature of cases where pH values affect

the availability of certain minerals.

 

One of these occurs in agriculture. A soil can contain plenty of

iron, but the plants can't get it because the pH of the soil is so

high. Very alkaline soils will hold onto iron. It's only when the

pH is dropped - when the soil is made more acidic - that the iron

becomes available to plants.

 

There are other cases in agriculture where one element has to be

present before the plant can obtain another element it needs. An

example of this is nitrogen and molybdenum. The soil can have enough

nitrogen, but yet the plant has all the symptoms of nitrogen

deficiency. Without molybdenum the plant can't uptake the nitrogen.

But if the farmer just supplements nitrogen, it does no good.

 

Something else to research are the properties and actions of Blood

tonic herbs. Are they changing electrolyte balances in the blood, the

pH, the carrier proteins, etc.? Keep in mind that the TCM definition

of Blood is that it moistens and nourishes the tissues of the body.

As is usual with TCM, the accent is on function, not form. Healthy

Blood nourishes and moistens the tissues of the body. An individual

can have normal Western blood tests but still be Blood Deficient

according to the TCM definition and guidelines because tissues are

not being properly nourished and moistened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>

> He's been on thyroxine for that for just over a year, and although

it

> alleviates some of his symptoms, being 'yang' it's going to be

making his

> yin deficiency even worse isn't it, especially in summer?!

>

> The interesting thing was it was tried at an increasing dosage, and

although

> the T4 level went up, the FT4 was actually depressed even further,

as though

> his body was somehow compensating to prevent it rising to normal

levels,

> which western medicine has no explanation for. Makes perfect sense

in the

> TCM paradigm though doesn't it!

>

> Jackie

[Guest guest]

> He's been on thyroxine for that for just over a year, and although

it

> alleviates some of his symptoms, being 'yang' it's going to be

making his

> yin deficiency even worse isn't it, especially in summer?!

 

Something else to consider. If some of the herbal remedies have the

effect of causing more T4 to become available, he's going to be more

Yang plus have the symptoms of hyperthyroidism. Your local vet needs

to monitor him for this possibility.

 

You may want to do a search on here for hypothyroidism. There are

cases where thyroid supplementation did not work. The blood level

came up to normal, symptoms improved a little, but the person still

had many of the symptoms of hypothyroidism. It was only after the

person was started on Yang tonic herbs and Herbs that Warm the

Interior that the symptoms disappeared. And occasionally there are

cases where the treatments for Yang Deficiency won't work adequately

until a doctor prescribes thyroid replacement.

 

There are different scenarios when it comes to Yin and Yang balance

in the body. Both Yin and Yang can still be Deficient, but one can

be far more Deficient than the other. There is a relative Excess of

one in these cases that isn't really an Excess. He can still be Yang

Deficient, but because the Yin Deficiency is so much worse, you only

see the Yin Deficiency symptoms. If the Yang is supplemented and the

Yin Deficiency isn't, it causes the Yin Deficiency symptoms to become

even more noticable. The horse (or person) still doesn't have enough

Yang, but because the Yin Deficiency is so much worse than the Yang

Deficiency, it looks like too much Yang is the problem. But it

isn't. The primary problem is too little Yin.

 

Yin cools, calms, and moistens. Yang heats, activates, and dries.

Both are needed throughout the day in varying amounts. Yang is

predominate during daylight hours; Yin is predominate during hours of

darkness. The morning is a time of increasing Yang and decreasing

Yin. The afternoon and evening is a time of decreasing Yang and

increasing Yin. After midnight, Yang starts to increase and Yin to

decrease.

[Guest guest]

> The next question is why are the carrier proteins holding onto the T4

> so tightly so it isn't available?

 

Try as I might, I can find absolutely no information on the subject that

makes any sense at all, and the veterinary profession has no idea. I believe

the liver is 'in charge' of that function, but of course all western liver

perameters test normal. That's where my whole eastern herbal voyage of

discovery began - when the horse responded to what was described as a liver

tonic, ayurvedic. Trouble is, it was an all round liver, kidney, digestive

and cardio vascular tonic, containing 16 herbs - so didn't really lead me

anywhere, and the response was not maintained.

 

 

> PH is one of them. Western medicine has barely scrathed the surface

> of considering pH in health problems because it's assumed that in

> most cases the body's buffering systems - especially for the blood -

> are keeping the pH within a fairly narrow and optimal range. But

> there are examples throughout nature of cases where pH values affect

> the availability of certain minerals.

 

For sure, we (as in those with similar horses) are well into pH. A lot of

these horses need buffering - the most dramatic response of all in my horse

was to antacids. And peony, which lowers gastric acidity. Again, yin

deficiency is an acid state I believe.

 

> One of these occurs in agriculture. A soil can contain plenty of

> iron, but the plants can't get it because the pH of the soil is so

> high. Very alkaline soils will hold onto iron. It's only when the

> pH is dropped - when the soil is made more acidic - that the iron

> becomes available to plants.

 

We have exactly the opposite problem with iron - too much. Horses do not

lose iron like people, once ingested, it stays in the system for life, and

is of course very pro-oxident. Excess iron has been strongly linked with the

development of insulin resistance in humans. So, we analyse our hay, balance

the iron exactly with the anti-oxident minerals, and avoid feeding any

supplementary iron. Oxidative stress is very associated with acidity,

chronic cellular inflammation etc, all of which are associated with yin

deficient states like diabetes.

 

 

> Something else to research are the properties and actions of Blood

> tonic herbs. Are they changing electrolyte balances in the blood, the

> pH, the carrier proteins, etc.? Keep in mind that the TCM definition

> of Blood is that it moistens and nourishes the tissues of the body.

> As is usual with TCM, the accent is on function, not form. Healthy

> Blood nourishes and moistens the tissues of the body. An individual

> can have normal Western blood tests but still be Blood Deficient

> according to the TCM definition and guidelines because tissues are

> not being properly nourished and moistened.

 

Hmm, I don't really understand blood deficiency yet. Are there any good

cooling herbs for blood? Peony I suppose - that's definately my horse's

favourite herb.

 

I'm still trying to untangle my own response to Dr Wan's prescription, which

in the end left me drained and exhausted with my digestion totally disrupted

and my lower back beginning to ache. Can one have too much of a blood tonic,

eg Dang Gui? I just cannot see what in the formula was so debilitating to

me. My menstruation became profuse too, and my right pulse did seem to be

stronger much of the time.

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

> Something else to consider. If some of the herbal remedies have the

> effect of causing more T4 to become available, he's going to be more

> Yang plus have the symptoms of hyperthyroidism. Your local vet needs

> to monitor him for this possibility.

 

We stay in close touch, and I was monitering his bloods a lot. He's a long

way off any problem with hyperthyroidism - creeping into the very bottom of

normal range for a couple of months in the middle of winter is the best he

can do!! But, I take your point - when he was losing weight for the first

time in years on the Qi tonic formula prescribed by the medical herbalist I

began to be concerned about the nature of the weight loss, but then he had

to come off them anyway. I decided to moniter him again as soon as I found a

sustainable herbal regime that seems to suit him - no point measuring what

doesn't work and will change next week.

 

> You may want to do a search on here for hypothyroidism. There are

> cases where thyroid supplementation did not work. The blood level

> came up to normal, symptoms improved a little, but the person still

> had many of the symptoms of hypothyroidism. It was only after the

> person was started on Yang tonic herbs and Herbs that Warm the

> Interior that the symptoms disappeared.

 

Yes that is very prevalent on the hypothyroid news groups, though slightly

less so with natural thyroid hormone. Cortisol can suppress FT4 in other

species, and I believe that is what is happening, the excess cortisol being

a result of yin deficiency I believe, which can in itself raise insulin. At

any rate, no-one has any other explanation for the pattern he has - in

winter his cortisol reduces, his insulin reduces, and his FT4 rises. Last

Jan on the ayurvedic regime I had all 3 just into normal range for the first

time in 2 years. He looked so well the medical herbalist could not diagnose

anything by pulse, examination etc, but did not really have enough energy to

work, and he began the slippery slide as winter turned to spring again.

..

> There are different scenarios when it comes to Yin and Yang balance

> in the body. Both Yin and Yang can still be Deficient, but one can

> be far more Deficient than the other. There is a relative Excess of

> one in these cases that isn't really an Excess. He can still be Yang

> Deficient, but because the Yin Deficiency is so much worse, you only

> see the Yin Deficiency symptoms. If the Yang is supplemented and the

> Yin Deficiency isn't, it causes the Yin Deficiency symptoms to become

> even more noticable. The horse (or person) still doesn't have enough

> Yang, but because the Yin Deficiency is so much worse than the Yang

> Deficiency, it looks like too much Yang is the problem. But it

> isn't. The primary problem is too little Yin.

 

Yes, in his youth he was often way too yang - because of yin deficiency. Now

he is yang deficient too, and that seems far more obvious. He is never hyper

anymore, just more or less fatigued.

 

A lot has become clear this year as TCM theory makes sense of thing. He

wastes muscle, but gains fat pads (abnormal fat deposits) in summer making

it very hard to feed him correctly, and being such a big strong horse the

fat is far more noticeable than the wasting. But it is the wasting that

makes it harder and harder for him to exercise (it in fact increases with

work) and I think reveals the true underlying nature of his pattern.

 

>The afternoon and evening is a time of decreasing Yang and

>increasing Yin. After midnight, Yang starts to increase and Yin to

>decrease.

 

Interesting. Cortisol is always higher in the morning, but occasionally he

is cold in the morning too. But foot inflammation symptoms always seem to be

worse last thing at night.

 

Thanks for your continued interest Victoria, such discussions always help me

understand something deeper.

 

Jackie