Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 > Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea > problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil > to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was > wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how > much is needed. Thanks. Someone else may know about Tea Tree Oil. Brewers yeast will help keep fleas away and can be fed to both dogs and cats. Just sprinkle some on dry or canned food. The majority of cats and dogs love the stuff. Garlic helps to repel fleas. It is safe for dogs, but is NOT safe for cats. You feed it to dogs in food or give them one of the tablets or capsules. You can do a Google for the recommended amount. Some parts of the US have been unusually wet this spring, and under those conditions fleas thrive both indoors and out. They like the high humidity. If the dog is kept inside any at all you'll want to vacuum more frequently than you usually do in order to pick up fleas and their eggs that may get into carpets and fabrics. Wash the dog's bedding more often than usual. For the cat lovers on the list, cats are some of the most sensitive animals there are, and a lot of things that are safe for dogs, humans, and other animals are not safe for cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Hello Ray, thank you for caring. I don't mean to be contrary, but actually, cats can't handle eucalyptus, cedar, pennyroyal or plants that have phenols or turpins (spelling?) And even garlic is problematic...it has been found to cause Heinz bodies in cats and dogs. Cats in particular have trouble with metabolizing/processing such things I think. It was a hard thing to find out that what I thought was safe and wonderful was actually harmful for my kitty. Thank you for your kindness. Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:38 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Hi again, I just want to add to my message below is to remember that very little testing and studies have been done on herbs and animals as far as findings of there effects on the animals. Individuals may have done their own like I have. I know from experience and others experiences who have looked for better ways to give their animals better health and more life have used herbs and fruits and vegetables to enhance their animals lives. Animals and humans have much in common such as, they eat, for their health, nutrition, strength, and to keep fit as best as possible. Studies have shown that animals can increase in health, nutrients, endurance, and strength with fruits and vegetables, plus, many other effects from eating properly. If you want more information contact me. Ray Ray Zielinski <rmk_12z wrote: Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Hi, Thank you for your reply. This is something that has not been fully established because they have found the opposite when doses have been smaller and diluted with other things. The eucalyptus is used for a shampoo as is pennyroyal. Also remember animals like humans have different reactions to what they eat or touch, so, it means to try a little and see the reaction. Remember their is no one cure-all for any animal or humans. There is need to experiement with these things. I read a tremendous amount of research and so much of it is contradictory, why? for the same reasons human studies are contraditory. We are all different and so we need to find what works for us and the same with animals. As I read and search for that which will do the job, which is what we are striving to do we need to research, analyze, and conduct our own experiements. Our ignorance and prejudice is our biggest draw backs to elevating many of the problems we suffer from. And that is not counting the money factor or, maybe it is... This is another thing to remember, chances of natural things, herbs, fruits, vegetables, being harmful to us or animals is very slim. The name of the game is prevention and if we are to late to prevent the problem, thew name of the game is a cure or restoration to healthy ways once again. if possible. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: Hello Ray, thank you for caring. I don't mean to be contrary, but actually, cats can't handle eucalyptus, cedar, pennyroyal or plants that have phenols or turpins (spelling?) And even garlic is problematic...it has been found to cause Heinz bodies in cats and dogs. Cats in particular have trouble with metabolizing/processing such things I think. It was a hard thing to find out that what I thought was safe and wonderful was actually harmful for my kitty. Thank you for your kindness. Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:38 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Ray, yes, please, I would like more information. This is completely opposite to what I have read...in that cats (kitties are what I've read about most as I had a kitty who was dying from chronic kidney failure) are predators and should be fed meat in as close a form to what they would eat in the wild as possible. The folks who practice this feed raw and grind their own and add bones and supplements. I don't believe I could do this, so I give a little store bought ground turkey now and then, or cut up chicken. I use mostly canned food of high quality. I just bought some with vegetables in it and they think it is inedible. Thanks, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:56 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi again, I just want to add to my message below is to remember that very little testing and studies have been done on herbs and animals as far as findings of there effects on the animals. Individuals may have done their own like I have. I know from experience and others experiences who have looked for better ways to give their animals better health and more life have used herbs and fruits and vegetables to enhance their animals lives. Animals and humans have much in common such as, they eat, for their health, nutrition, strength, and to keep fit as best as possible. Studies have shown that animals can increase in health, nutrients, endurance, and strength with fruits and vegetables, plus, many other effects from eating properly. If you want more information contact me. Ray Ray Zielinski <rmk_12z wrote: Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Hi again, Thank you, too. I forgot to mention that the studies were with essential oils. Even breathing them wasn't good, or having them on the skin. It wasn't just ingestion. I don't mind experimenting on myself, but I don't experiment on my animals when something has been found to be dangerous. I do a little " muscle testing " for herbs or supplements for my cats and dog. My dog absolutely hates the natural citrus oil (and other oils) mixture that only takes a drop or two on the collar. He gets up and rolls and writhes about trying to rid himself of it. That's just my doggy...like you said, they're all different. I have to disagree with you about the harm of plants. Hemlock is a plant and kills in small amounts. Herbs can cause liver damage...the wrong mixtures of herbs can react. They aren't innocuous and that is why they work...they are potent. I love plants and herbs deeply and believe very much in using them instead of drugs. I do think they are generally safer and gentler than the allopathic western big gun approach backed by the money making machines of pharmaceuticals (I think that is maybe what you were alluding to). Thank you, again, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:17 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, Thank you for your reply. This is something that has not been fully established because they have found the opposite when doses have been smaller and diluted with other things. The eucalyptus is used for a shampoo as is pennyroyal. Also remember animals like humans have different reactions to what they eat or touch, so, it means to try a little and see the reaction. Remember their is no one cure-all for any animal or humans. There is need to experiement with these things. I read a tremendous amount of research and so much of it is contradictory, why? for the same reasons human studies are contraditory. We are all different and so we need to find what works for us and the same with animals. As I read and search for that which will do the job, which is what we are striving to do we need to research, analyze, and conduct our own experiements. Our ignorance and prejudice is our biggest draw backs to elevating many of the problems we suffer from. And that is not counting the money factor or, maybe it is... This is another thing to remember, chances of natural things, herbs, fruits, vegetables, being harmful to us or animals is very slim. The name of the game is prevention and if we are to late to prevent the problem, thew name of the game is a cure or restoration to healthy ways once again. if possible. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: Hello Ray, thank you for caring. I don't mean to be contrary, but actually, cats can't handle eucalyptus, cedar, pennyroyal or plants that have phenols or turpins (spelling?) And even garlic is problematic...it has been found to cause Heinz bodies in cats and dogs. Cats in particular have trouble with metabolizing/processing such things I think. It was a hard thing to find out that what I thought was safe and wonderful was actually harmful for my kitty. Thank you for your kindness. Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:38 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Hi Once Again, I know what you have been told, but it like the health field for huimans, what we are told isn't what we should do in almost every case. We as humans should take in very little meat, we know it causes all kinds of chaos inside of us. The same believe it or not is for our animals. There is no dog food that has 100% of what dogs need so, it is all deficient. You never feed animals table food (human food). Try this experiment with your pet, feed them fruits and vegetables. See how their coats shine and their clear eyes and energy. You can add vittamin c to their diet by pouring it on their food. Their are some amazing things that some vets have done but like other doctors who are rejected for being fools. Remember doctoring is doctoring, it is their lifeline, it is called money and if everyone got healed they would have no money same goes for vets. Don't be afraid to experiment it won't hurt the animal unless you do something really crazy,,, I am sorry I have to go right now but, will get back with you and we can talk some more. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: Ray, yes, please, I would like more information. This is completely opposite to what I have read...in that cats (kitties are what I've read about most as I had a kitty who was dying from chronic kidney failure) are predators and should be fed meat in as close a form to what they would eat in the wild as possible. The folks who practice this feed raw and grind their own and add bones and supplements. I don't believe I could do this, so I give a little store bought ground turkey now and then, or cut up chicken. I use mostly canned food of high quality. I just bought some with vegetables in it and they think it is inedible. Thanks, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:56 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi again, I just want to add to my message below is to remember that very little testing and studies have been done on herbs and animals as far as findings of there effects on the animals. Individuals may have done their own like I have. I know from experience and others experiences who have looked for better ways to give their animals better health and more life have used herbs and fruits and vegetables to enhance their animals lives. Animals and humans have much in common such as, they eat, for their health, nutrition, strength, and to keep fit as best as possible. Studies have shown that animals can increase in health, nutrients, endurance, and strength with fruits and vegetables, plus, many other effects from eating properly. If you want more information contact me. Ray Ray Zielinski <rmk_12z wrote: Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Ju Hua - Chrysanthemum Cautions: Contraindicated in Deficiency of Qi with reduced appetite and diarrhea. Dosage: 1-3 qian. Toxicity: Relatively safe. Notes: In vitro antibiotic activity against Staphylococcus aureus, b-hemolytic Streptococcus, and Shigella sonnei. It has antihypertensive properties. A related herb, Flos Chrysanthemi Indici, is bitter, spicy and cool, and it quells Fire and detoxifies Fire Poison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 > Someone else may know about Tea Tree Oil. Brewers yeast will help > keep fleas away and can be fed to both dogs and cats. Just sprinkle > some on dry or canned food. The majority of cats and dogs love the > stuff. > > Garlic helps to repel fleas. It is safe for dogs, but is NOT safe > for cats. You feed it to dogs in food or give them one of the tablets > or capsules. You can do a Google for the recommended amount. On the subject of insecticides, the only thing effective against horseflies seems to be permethrin, which is a synthetic version of pyrethrin. Pyrethrin comes from chrysanthamum flowers - as does Ju Hua. As even natural pyrethrin comes with some strong health warnings - I woinder if there is any concern over Ju Hua? Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Hi again and again, Actually, I experienced the coat shining, health and eye brightness from feeding my elderly female cat raw ground turkey. She had always had a kind of dusty looking coat with a dandruff problem and the raw meat cleared it up. I've tried feeding her oils instead but she isn't interested. Humans are different than cats, their teeth show they are omnivores, cats have carnivore teeth. They have different intestines as well. I don't think they can be compared, really. We are more like bears I think. (Maybe that's why I like huckleberries and serviceberries ) Take care, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 12:37 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi Once Again, I know what you have been told, but it like the health field for huimans, what we are told isn't what we should do in almost every case. We as humans should take in very little meat, we know it causes all kinds of chaos inside of us. The same believe it or not is for our animals. There is no dog food that has 100% of what dogs need so, it is all deficient. You never feed animals table food (human food). Try this experiment with your pet, feed them fruits and vegetables. See how their coats shine and their clear eyes and energy. You can add vittamin c to their diet by pouring it on their food. Their are some amazing things that some vets have done but like other doctors who are rejected for being fools. Remember doctoring is doctoring, it is their lifeline, it is called money and if everyone got healed they would have no money same goes for vets. Don't be afraid to experiment it won't hurt the animal unless you do something really crazy,,, I am sorry I have to go right now but, will get back with you and we can talk some more. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: Ray, yes, please, I would like more information. This is completely opposite to what I have read...in that cats (kitties are what I've read about most as I had a kitty who was dying from chronic kidney failure) are predators and should be fed meat in as close a form to what they would eat in the wild as possible. The folks who practice this feed raw and grind their own and add bones and supplements. I don't believe I could do this, so I give a little store bought ground turkey now and then, or cut up chicken. I use mostly canned food of high quality. I just bought some with vegetables in it and they think it is inedible. Thanks, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:56 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi again, I just want to add to my message below is to remember that very little testing and studies have been done on herbs and animals as far as findings of there effects on the animals. Individuals may have done their own like I have. I know from experience and others experiences who have looked for better ways to give their animals better health and more life have used herbs and fruits and vegetables to enhance their animals lives. Animals and humans have much in common such as, they eat, for their health, nutrition, strength, and to keep fit as best as possible. Studies have shown that animals can increase in health, nutrients, endurance, and strength with fruits and vegetables, plus, many other effects from eating properly. If you want more information contact me. Ray Ray Zielinski <rmk_12z wrote: Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 A dog with fleas? My late cat taught me this one. Suggest to your dog that he meditate in the mint patch. And here's a curious site to view if you are not yet into trusting your pet's advice. Penel whose cat just loved having GB# 12 rubbed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 >And even garlic is problematic...it has been found to cause Heinz bodies in cats and dogs. Cats in particular have trouble with metabolizing/processing such things I think. Michelle, could you give more info on this? What are Heinz bodies? Thanks. I was told garlic was ok for dogs but not for cats. If the garlic could hurt dogs, I need to know about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 > Try this experiment with your pet, feed them fruits and vegetables. (snip) > Don't be afraid to experiment it won't hurt the animal unless you do something really crazy,,, Ray, any time you're considering giving herbs or foods to an animal, you need to research it first to make sure you're not giving the animal something that will hurt him/her. This is especially true in the case of cats because they are sensitive to, even poisoned by many substances that do not cause problems in humans, dogs, horses, etc. What is food to one species can be poison to another because of differences in biology. Even among humans there are variations that can cause one man's food to be another's poison. For example, some people are hurt by fava beans whereas others can eat them without problems. The majority of adults cannot handle lactose (because they lack the enzyme to digest it), but some adults with northern European ancestry can handle lactose because their bodies do produce enough of the enzyme needed to digest it. There are no " one size fits all " diets for humans, not less for different species. No matter how healthy a dietary recommendation may be for a majority of people, there are going to be some that are harmed by it. A good example is cutting back on salt. It's a great idea for many people but cutting back on salt can aggravate health problems in someone who has adrenal insufficiency, suffers from Neurally Mediated Hypotension, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 Hello Victoria, I couldn't find the past things I'd read, but did some searching on holisticat where I first heard of this and then did a google search. Heinz bodies are a blood problem that lead to anemia and can be life threatening. In dogs and cat they can be caused by onions and garlic. Cats are particularly susceptible. Here are some of the pages, excerpts and links. There is more at the individual sites. Michelle From " A Garlic Chemistry Primer, " Copyright 1996 Nando.net Copyright 1996 The Boston Globe) http://www.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/021996/health21_1001.html OK, now let's jump tracks for a sec here, to onions. Read this and see if any alarm bells go off in your heads: " Onions and certain plants of the Brassica family contain an unusual amino acid called S-METHYL CYSTEINE SULFOXIDE. In the intestine of the dog (and cat), S-methyl cysteine sulfoxide is converted to DIMETHYL DISULFIDE. The dimethyl disulfide CAUSES DENATURATION OF HEMOGLOBIN (the molecule that binds oxygen) in red blood cells, resulting in " Heinz bodies " in the RBC's. " Nucleated erythrocytes should be counted (indicative of anemia), Howell-Jolly bodies (thick, small, round remnants of nuclear DNA) may occasionally be seen in the cytoplasm of rbc's and Heinz bodies (erythrocyte refractile bodies-cytoplasmic clumps of denatured hemoglobin) which are fairly common in cats should be noted. Heinz bodies are seen in cats that have been exposed to oxidants such as aspirin, and sulfonamides as well as certain plants. Cats should never have onions or too much garlic, which is in the onion family, since both cause Heinze body anemia. http://felidaeworld.com/hematology.html WARNING! ONIONS are toxic to your dog! Onions are toxic to dogs. The toxicity is dose dependent, so the bigger the animal, the more onion need be consumed to cause a toxicity. Onion toxicity causes a Heinz body anemia. Heinz bodies are small bubble-like projections which protrude from a red blood cell and can be seen when the cells are stained. This " bubble " is a weak spot in the red blood cell and, therefore, the cell has a decreased life-span and ruptures prematurely. If numerous red cells are affected and rupture, anemia can result. It is a form of hemolytic anemia. Onions are only one of the substances which can cause Heinz body anemia. Other substances such as Acetominophen (Tylenol) and benzocaine-containing topical preparations can also cause Heinz body anemia in the dog. The toxic effect of the onions are the same whether the product is raw, cooked or dehydrated. The hemolytic episode usually occurs several days after onion ingestion (lowest hematocrit around day 5 post ingestion). Daily feeding of onions could have a cumulative effect due to ongoing formation of Heinz bodies versus a single exposure with a wide gap until the next exposure, allowing the bone marrow time to regenerate the prematurely destroyed red cells. The cat is even more susceptible. Recently, Gerber began to add onion powder to all its meat baby foods. They are labeled as " better tasting " . Since baby food is often used in sick cats that are not eating (to stimulate their appetites), there was concern that the onion powder would cause a Heinz body anemia in these cats. Within a week or two of the change, there were numerous reports of Heinz body anemia in cats receiving Gerber baby food in their diets. I strongly recommend NO ONIONS for dogs. There is no benefit and certainly the potential to cause harm. Written by Dr. Wendy Wallner, DVM NOTE: Garlic is safe for your dog used in moderation and can help with a myriad of things such as gas, flea prevention and it has natural antibiotic properties. http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/onions.html . Garlic is a member of the same genus as onions and, as such, contains many similar properties and sulfur compounds. And there is documentation in the literature of high dose garlic causing anemia in humans17 and other animals18. Other potential toxicities reported in the literature include gastric irritation19, decreased spermatogenesis20, and occupational asthma due to prolonged exposure21,22. There are no reports in the literature of garlic causing toxic hemolytic anemia in horses, though research is currently underway at the University of Guelph to establish the safety parameters of this plant in horses. In the absence of any controlled scientific studies, the best advice is to make yourself aware of the possible pit-falls. If you are concerned with the possibility of garlic-induced anemia, ask your veterinarian to do a quick blood test for heinz bodies, or red blood cell count. It is fast, inexpensive, and will put your mind at ease. In the absence of any controlled scientific studies, the best advice is to make yourself aware of the possible pit-falls. If you are concerned with the possibility of garlic-induced anemia, ask your veterinarian to do a quick blood test for heinz bodies, or red blood cell count. It is fast, inexpensive, and will put your mind at ease. References (one of the references which mentioned dogs) 18. Lee KW, Yamato O, Tajima M, Kuraoka M, Omae S, Maede Y. (2000) Hematologic changes associated with the appearance of eccentrocytes after intragastric administration of garlic extract to dogs. American Journal of Veterinary Research; 61(11):1446-50. http://www.nutraceuticalalliance.com/hl11.htm http://www.holisticat.com/garlic_arch1.html - victoria_dragon Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 3:46 PM [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Digest Number 876 >And even garlic is problematic...it has been found to cause Heinz bodies in cats and dogs. Cats in particular have trouble with metabolizing/processing such things I think. Michelle, could you give more info on this? What are Heinz bodies? Thanks. I was told garlic was ok for dogs but not for cats. If the garlic could hurt dogs, I need to know about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2003 Report Share Posted June 22, 2003 Ju Hua - Chrysanthemum Cautions: Contraindicated in Deficiency of Qi with reduced appetite and diarrhea. It's more this kind of thing that concerns me: " Pyrethrins and Pyrethroids About these commonly used poisons. Excerpts from Steve Tvedten's book " The Best Control (2nd Edition) " Natural pyrethrins (brand names include Blitz, Drione, etc.) are botanical pesticide poisons extracted from the daisy species, Chrysanthemum cinerariaefolium and/or C. coccineum which can bring on allergic reactions, asthma attacks, dermatitis and interfere with nervous system functions. They are often combined with organophosphates to kill. Inhalation of just pyrethrins per the Extension Toxicology Network, California Public Interest Research Group can cause asthmatic breathing, sneezing, stuffiness, headaches, tremors, convulsion, burning and itching. They are especially toxic to fish and other aquatic organisms. " There is also talk of endocrine disruption, but it looks like not all chrysanthemum contain pyrethrins anyway? Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 > Heinz bodies are a blood problem that lead to anemia and can be life threatening. In dogs and cat they can be caused by onions and garlic. Cats are particularly susceptible. Here are some of the pages, excerpts and links. There is more at the individual sites. Thanks, Michelle, for a lot of good info. I'm wondering if even if the animal (or person) doesn't actually develop hemolytic anemia,is this a type of Blood Stasis? Any time red blood cells are misshapened (and/or rigid), they have trouble making it through the smallest capillaries. Certain areas of the brain - like the hypothalamus - are particularly rich in these small capillaries. The hypothalamus regulates homeostasis in an organism. Bottom line: Disturbances in body temperature, appetite, thirst, etc. Not to mention fatigue, numbness, etc. High levels of misshapen (and/or inflexible) red blood cells show up in a number of illnesses and medical conditions. Like diabetes. The highest percentages of these nondiscocytes have been found in people with CFIDS (Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome). For a long time my thinking was that the medical conditions cause the higher than normal percentages of nondiscocytes. But what if it's the other way around in at least some cases? What if in some cases the high percentages of nondiscocytes are part of what allows the various medical conditions to develop (depending on what the individual is prone to as well as the particular types of nondiscocytes)? Correct the nondiscocyte/ Blood Stasis problem, and the medical condition is deprived of one of the things it needs to maintain a stranglehold on the person. Thanks for all the research. Garlic may be ok for short-term treatment in dogs (though not cats), but this is one treatment that definitely should not be used indefinitely, day after day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2003 Report Share Posted June 23, 2003 Hi, Your right cats were carnovores before becoming domesticated and we changed there way of eating. Your house cat is not on par with a leopard, lion or any other cat. Let me give you a number to call and talk to this lady who raises cats she deals in the natural, organic food for animals. Dogs and cats of the plain and dogs at home are not in the same category other than they are dogs. We have domesticated them and with domestication comes changes in what they eat and what they react to. We know meat has a detrimental effect on domesticated animals because of the diseases they now contract by eating certain foods, just like we as humans have reaction to certain foods also. Their kidney, liver and pancreas works just like ours does and are affected the sameway by eating food that is really not formulated for them. All domesticated animal food is deficient in minerals and nutrients. It is the long term effect we are looking at not the short time. We as humans devour a lot of meat and so now we have a problem of several things. These affect the the animals the same way. We have dogs that are uffering from sickness we have never had before, as well as humans. Too fat of dogs just like us, kidney problems just like us, liver problems just like us. Why? Checkout the when humans started having big problems in these things. When their diet became more dependant on meat. Approximately after WW2 is when we started a health change in this country from very good to very poor. We find the same statistic with animals. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to see the correlation between the food change and the health change. Also, meat is not manufactured the same as it was back years ago. We have added poisons to the food. For instance turkey and chicken have small amounts of strychnine because they found this fattens the birds faster for market. Now if you don't think this has an effect on you, your cat, dog or any other animal when it eats chicken or turkey then you do not understand health. I raised dogs and never thought much about it until it was brought to my attention what was being done to the meats we eat and they eat. A big misconception is out amongst the people that is ruining their health and their pets health and that is in what they are feeding their animals and themselves. In all the years I raised dogs }I never had a problem with fleas, ticks, or anyother real problem that attacks animals. All my dogs were outside dogs and they were always healthy. Why? because I always looked for ways through alot of study to make them healthier and experimenting to see the results. I never went to a vet I gave my own shots if needed. You may think humans and animals are not the same, but they react the same to antibiotics just as we do. And anytime you use an antibiotic your kidneys suffer and liver also, the same with dogs and cats no different. Remember, we are talking of the long haul of health for a animal not the short stint. A animal can live in good health until it dies or in bad health just like humans depending upon how we feed them. Of course this is up to you to choose and believe or reject. Ray . michellec <michellec wrote: Hi again and again, Actually, I experienced the coat shining, health and eye brightness from feeding my elderly female cat raw ground turkey. She had always had a kind of dusty looking coat with a dandruff problem and the raw meat cleared it up. I've tried feeding her oils instead but she isn't interested. Humans are different than cats, their teeth show they are omnivores, cats have carnivore teeth. They have different intestines as well. I don't think they can be compared, really. We are more like bears I think. (Maybe that's why I like huckleberries and serviceberries ) Take care, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 12:37 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi Once Again, I know what you have been told, but it like the health field for huimans, what we are told isn't what we should do in almost every case. We as humans should take in very little meat, we know it causes all kinds of chaos inside of us. The same believe it or not is for our animals. There is no dog food that has 100% of what dogs need so, it is all deficient. You never feed animals table food (human food). Try this experiment with your pet, feed them fruits and vegetables. See how their coats shine and their clear eyes and energy. You can add vittamin c to their diet by pouring it on their food. Their are some amazing things that some vets have done but like other doctors who are rejected for being fools. Remember doctoring is doctoring, it is their lifeline, it is called money and if everyone got healed they would have no money same goes for vets. Don't be afraid to experiment it won't hurt the animal unless you do something really crazy,,, I am sorry I have to go right now but, will get back with you and we can talk some more. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: Ray, yes, please, I would like more information. This is completely opposite to what I have read...in that cats (kitties are what I've read about most as I had a kitty who was dying from chronic kidney failure) are predators and should be fed meat in as close a form to what they would eat in the wild as possible. The folks who practice this feed raw and grind their own and add bones and supplements. I don't believe I could do this, so I give a little store bought ground turkey now and then, or cut up chicken. I use mostly canned food of high quality. I just bought some with vegetables in it and they think it is inedible. Thanks, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:56 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi again, I just want to add to my message below is to remember that very little testing and studies have been done on herbs and animals as far as findings of there effects on the animals. Individuals may have done their own like I have. I know from experience and others experiences who have looked for better ways to give their animals better health and more life have used herbs and fruits and vegetables to enhance their animals lives. Animals and humans have much in common such as, they eat, for their health, nutrition, strength, and to keep fit as best as possible. Studies have shown that animals can increase in health, nutrients, endurance, and strength with fruits and vegetables, plus, many other effects from eating properly. If you want more information contact me. Ray Ray Zielinski <rmk_12z wrote: Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 You are welcome, Victoria, I'm glad it came in useful. I sure can't help you in your theorizing, but it sounds right to me. Perhaps is isn't an either/or. And I agree with you on your conclusion about garlic and dogs. Michelle Thanks, Michelle, for a lot of good info. I'm wondering if even if the animal (or person) doesn't actually develop hemolytic anemia,is this a type of Blood Stasis? For a long time my thinking was that the medical conditions cause the higher than normal percentages of nondiscocytes. But what if it's the other way around in at least some cases? Thanks for all the research. Garlic may be ok for short-term treatment in dogs (though not cats), but this is one treatment that definitely should not be used indefinitely, day after day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Hi Ray, I am more interested in studies and research than in what one person alone is doing. But thank you for the offer. I do agree with you about natural and organic, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree about the carnivore thing. I believe that before the war you mentioned, a lot of animals were having to hunt for themselves as people were poor. They didn't used canned or dry pet food. But let's let it rest. It is okay to have different thoughts. It would be boring if we were all the same. Blessings to you, Michelle Hi, Your right cats were carnovores before becoming domesticated and we changed there way of eating. Your house cat is not on par with a leopard, lion or any other cat. Let me give you a number to call and talk to this lady who raises cats she deals in the natural, organic food for animals. Dogs and cats of the plain and dogs at home are not in the same category other than they are dogs. We have domesticated them and with domestication comes changes in what they eat and what they react to. We know meat has a detrimental effect on domesticated animals because of the diseases they now contract by eating certain foods, just like we as humans have reaction to certain foods also. Their kidney, liver and pancreas works just like ours does and are affected the sameway by eating food that is really not formulated for them. All domesticated animal food is deficient in minerals and nutrients. It is the long term effect we are looking at not the short time. We as humans devour a lot of meat and so now we have a problem of several things. These affect the the animals the same way. We have dogs that are uffering from sickness we have never had before, as well as humans. Too fat of dogs just like us, kidney problems just like us, liver problems just like us. Why? Checkout the when humans started having big problems in these things. When their diet became more dependant on meat. Approximately after WW2 is when we started a health change in this country from very good to very poor. We find the same statistic with animals. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to see the correlation between the food change and the health change. Also, meat is not manufactured the same as it was back years ago. We have added poisons to the food. For instance turkey and chicken have small amounts of strychnine because they found this fattens the birds faster for market. Now if you don't think this has an effect on you, your cat, dog or any other animal when it eats chicken or turkey then you do not understand health. I raised dogs and never thought much about it until it was brought to my attention what was being done to the meats we eat and they eat. A big misconception is out amongst the people that is ruining their health and their pets health and that is in what they are feeding their animals and themselves. In all the years I raised dogs }I never had a problem with fleas, ticks, or anyother real problem that attacks animals. All my dogs were outside dogs and they were always healthy. Why? because I always looked for ways through alot of study to make them healthier and experimenting to see the results. I never went to a vet I gave my own shots if needed. You may think humans and animals are not the same, but they react the same to antibiotics just as we do. And anytime you use an antibiotic your kidneys suffer and liver also, the same with dogs and cats no different. Remember, we are talking of the long haul of health for a animal not the short stint. A animal can live in good health until it dies or in bad health just like humans depending upon how we feed them. Of course this is up to you to choose and believe or reject. Ray . michellec <michellec wrote: Hi again and again, Actually, I experienced the coat shining, health and eye brightness from feeding my elderly female cat raw ground turkey. She had always had a kind of dusty looking coat with a dandruff problem and the raw meat cleared it up. I've tried feeding her oils instead but she isn't interested. Humans are different than cats, their teeth show they are omnivores, cats have carnivore teeth. They have different intestines as well. I don't think they can be compared, really. We are more like bears I think. (Maybe that's why I like huckleberries and serviceberries ) Take care, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 12:37 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi Once Again, I know what you have been told, but it like the health field for huimans, what we are told isn't what we should do in almost every case. We as humans should take in very little meat, we know it causes all kinds of chaos inside of us. The same believe it or not is for our animals. There is no dog food that has 100% of what dogs need so, it is all deficient. You never feed animals table food (human food). Try this experiment with your pet, feed them fruits and vegetables. See how their coats shine and their clear eyes and energy. You can add vittamin c to their diet by pouring it on their food. Their are some amazing things that some vets have done but like other doctors who are rejected for being fools. Remember doctoring is doctoring, it is their lifeline, it is called money and if everyone got healed they would have no money same goes for vets. Don't be afraid to experiment it won't hurt the animal unless you do something really crazy,,, I am sorry I have to go right now but, will get back with you and we can talk some more. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: Ray, yes, please, I would like more information. This is completely opposite to what I have read...in that cats (kitties are what I've read about most as I had a kitty who was dying from chronic kidney failure) are predators and should be fed meat in as close a form to what they would eat in the wild as possible. The folks who practice this feed raw and grind their own and add bones and supplements. I don't believe I could do this, so I give a little store bought ground turkey now and then, or cut up chicken. I use mostly canned food of high quality. I just bought some with vegetables in it and they think it is inedible. Thanks, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:56 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi again, I just want to add to my message below is to remember that very little testing and studies have been done on herbs and animals as far as findings of there effects on the animals. Individuals may have done their own like I have. I know from experience and others experiences who have looked for better ways to give their animals better health and more life have used herbs and fruits and vegetables to enhance their animals lives. Animals and humans have much in common such as, they eat, for their health, nutrition, strength, and to keep fit as best as possible. Studies have shown that animals can increase in health, nutrients, endurance, and strength with fruits and vegetables, plus, many other effects from eating properly. If you want more information contact me. Ray Ray Zielinski <rmk_12z wrote: Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Hi, Yes, your right even though your wrong... Just kidding, the important thing is to always look for ways to make things better for our animals and not get locked in on one thing and lose the opportunity to expand our thinking and our abilities to help our pets whatever they maybe. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: Hi Ray, I am more interested in studies and research than in what one person alone is doing. But thank you for the offer. I do agree with you about natural and organic, but I think we'll have to agree to disagree about the carnivore thing. I believe that before the war you mentioned, a lot of animals were having to hunt for themselves as people were poor. They didn't used canned or dry pet food. But let's let it rest. It is okay to have different thoughts. It would be boring if we were all the same. Blessings to you, Michelle Hi, Your right cats were carnovores before becoming domesticated and we changed there way of eating. Your house cat is not on par with a leopard, lion or any other cat. Let me give you a number to call and talk to this lady who raises cats she deals in the natural, organic food for animals. Dogs and cats of the plain and dogs at home are not in the same category other than they are dogs. We have domesticated them and with domestication comes changes in what they eat and what they react to. We know meat has a detrimental effect on domesticated animals because of the diseases they now contract by eating certain foods, just like we as humans have reaction to certain foods also. Their kidney, liver and pancreas works just like ours does and are affected the sameway by eating food that is really not formulated for them. All domesticated animal food is deficient in minerals and nutrients. It is the long term effect we are looking at not the short time. We as humans devour a lot of meat and so now we have a problem of several things. These affect the the animals the same way. We have dogs that are uffering from sickness we have never had before, as well as humans. Too fat of dogs just like us, kidney problems just like us, liver problems just like us. Why? Checkout the when humans started having big problems in these things. When their diet became more dependant on meat. Approximately after WW2 is when we started a health change in this country from very good to very poor. We find the same statistic with animals. You do not have to be a rocket scientist to see the correlation between the food change and the health change. Also, meat is not manufactured the same as it was back years ago. We have added poisons to the food. For instance turkey and chicken have small amounts of strychnine because they found this fattens the birds faster for market. Now if you don't think this has an effect on you, your cat, dog or any other animal when it eats chicken or turkey then you do not understand health. I raised dogs and never thought much about it until it was brought to my attention what was being done to the meats we eat and they eat. A big misconception is out amongst the people that is ruining their health and their pets health and that is in what they are feeding their animals and themselves. In all the years I raised dogs }I never had a problem with fleas, ticks, or anyother real problem that attacks animals. All my dogs were outside dogs and they were always healthy. Why? because I always looked for ways through alot of study to make them healthier and experimenting to see the results. I never went to a vet I gave my own shots if needed. You may think humans and animals are not the same, but they react the same to antibiotics just as we do. And anytime you use an antibiotic your kidneys suffer and liver also, the same with dogs and cats no different. Remember, we are talking of the long haul of health for a animal not the short stint. A animal can live in good health until it dies or in bad health just like humans depending upon how we feed them. Of course this is up to you to choose and believe or reject. Ray . michellec <michellec wrote: Hi again and again, Actually, I experienced the coat shining, health and eye brightness from feeding my elderly female cat raw ground turkey. She had always had a kind of dusty looking coat with a dandruff problem and the raw meat cleared it up. I've tried feeding her oils instead but she isn't interested. Humans are different than cats, their teeth show they are omnivores, cats have carnivore teeth. They have different intestines as well. I don't think they can be compared, really. We are more like bears I think. (Maybe that's why I like huckleberries and serviceberries ) Take care, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 12:37 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi Once Again, I know what you have been told, but it like the health field for huimans, what we are told isn't what we should do in almost every case. We as humans should take in very little meat, we know it causes all kinds of chaos inside of us. The same believe it or not is for our animals. There is no dog food that has 100% of what dogs need so, it is all deficient. You never feed animals table food (human food). Try this experiment with your pet, feed them fruits and vegetables. See how their coats shine and their clear eyes and energy. You can add vittamin c to their diet by pouring it on their food. Their are some amazing things that some vets have done but like other doctors who are rejected for being fools. Remember doctoring is doctoring, it is their lifeline, it is called money and if everyone got healed they would have no money same goes for vets. Don't be afraid to experiment it won't hurt the animal unless you do something really crazy,,, I am sorry I have to go right now but, will get back with you and we can talk some more. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: Ray, yes, please, I would like more information. This is completely opposite to what I have read...in that cats (kitties are what I've read about most as I had a kitty who was dying from chronic kidney failure) are predators and should be fed meat in as close a form to what they would eat in the wild as possible. The folks who practice this feed raw and grind their own and add bones and supplements. I don't believe I could do this, so I give a little store bought ground turkey now and then, or cut up chicken. I use mostly canned food of high quality. I just bought some with vegetables in it and they think it is inedible. Thanks, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:56 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi again, I just want to add to my message below is to remember that very little testing and studies have been done on herbs and animals as far as findings of there effects on the animals. Individuals may have done their own like I have. I know from experience and others experiences who have looked for better ways to give their animals better health and more life have used herbs and fruits and vegetables to enhance their animals lives. Animals and humans have much in common such as, they eat, for their health, nutrition, strength, and to keep fit as best as possible. Studies have shown that animals can increase in health, nutrients, endurance, and strength with fruits and vegetables, plus, many other effects from eating properly. If you want more information contact me. Ray Ray Zielinski <rmk_12z wrote: Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Hi Victoria, I must agree with you in experimenting you need to study what your giving your animal. I don't think anyone would do that, would they? In anything you do with animals or humans you look for the causes of the problems and then the treatments for the problems. To do it any other way would be, not to smart, you would agree with that right? It is always expedient to understand your animal and always remember that what works for one doesn't mean it will work for another. Agreed? In your opinion, why would one treatment work for one cat and the same treament for another cat having the same problem, not work? Thanks Ray victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: > Try this experiment with your pet, feed them fruits and vegetables. (snip) > Don't be afraid to experiment it won't hurt the animal unless you do something really crazy,,, Ray, any time you're considering giving herbs or foods to an animal, you need to research it first to make sure you're not giving the animal something that will hurt him/her. This is especially true in the case of cats because they are sensitive to, even poisoned by many substances that do not cause problems in humans, dogs, horses, etc. What is food to one species can be poison to another because of differences in biology. Even among humans there are variations that can cause one man's food to be another's poison. For example, some people are hurt by fava beans whereas others can eat them without problems. The majority of adults cannot handle lactose (because they lack the enzyme to digest it), but some adults with northern European ancestry can handle lactose because their bodies do produce enough of the enzyme needed to digest it. There are no " one size fits all " diets for humans, not less for different species. No matter how healthy a dietary recommendation may be for a majority of people, there are going to be some that are harmed by it. A good example is cutting back on salt. It's a great idea for many people but cutting back on salt can aggravate health problems in someone who has adrenal insufficiency, suffers from Neurally Mediated Hypotension, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Hi Michellec, In order to do anything with your cat or dog as far as expeimenting goes of course you have to research what your doing not just blindly do something you may regret. I didn't think I appeared that naive in striving to explain what I meant about expeimenting with an animal. I will strive to be more specific so I am better understood. Thanks Ray michellec <michellec wrote: Hi again, Thank you, too. I forgot to mention that the studies were with essential oils. Even breathing them wasn't good, or having them on the skin. It wasn't just ingestion. I don't mind experimenting on myself, but I don't experiment on my animals when something has been found to be dangerous. I do a little " muscle testing " for herbs or supplements for my cats and dog. My dog absolutely hates the natural citrus oil (and other oils) mixture that only takes a drop or two on the collar. He gets up and rolls and writhes about trying to rid himself of it. That's just my doggy...like you said, they're all different. I have to disagree with you about the harm of plants. Hemlock is a plant and kills in small amounts. Herbs can cause liver damage...the wrong mixtures of herbs can react. They aren't innocuous and that is why they work...they are potent. I love plants and herbs deeply and believe very much in using them instead of drugs. I do think they are generally safer and gentler than the allopathic western big gun approach backed by the money making machines of pharmaceuticals (I think that is maybe what you were alluding to). Thank you, again, Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 11:17 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, Thank you for your reply. This is something that has not been fully established because they have found the opposite when doses have been smaller and diluted with other things. The eucalyptus is used for a shampoo as is pennyroyal. Also remember animals like humans have different reactions to what they eat or touch, so, it means to try a little and see the reaction. Remember their is no one cure-all for any animal or humans. There is need to experiement with these things. I read a tremendous amount of research and so much of it is contradictory, why? for the same reasons human studies are contraditory. We are all different and so we need to find what works for us and the same with animals. As I read and search for that which will do the job, which is what we are striving to do we need to research, analyze, and conduct our own experiements. Our ignorance and prejudice is our biggest draw backs to elevating many of the problems we suffer from. And that is not counting the money factor or, maybe it is... This is another thing to remember, chances of natural things, herbs, fruits, vegetables, being harmful to us or animals is very slim. The name of the game is prevention and if we are to late to prevent the problem, thew name of the game is a cure or restoration to healthy ways once again. if possible. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: Hello Ray, thank you for caring. I don't mean to be contrary, but actually, cats can't handle eucalyptus, cedar, pennyroyal or plants that have phenols or turpins (spelling?) And even garlic is problematic...it has been found to cause Heinz bodies in cats and dogs. Cats in particular have trouble with metabolizing/processing such things I think. It was a hard thing to find out that what I thought was safe and wonderful was actually harmful for my kitty. Thank you for your kindness. Michelle - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Saturday, June 21, 2003 10:38 AM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi Michellic, About your dogs or cats and fleas one of the best solutions you can use for this problem of fleas/ticks and is natural and works very well. It is a combination of, oil of orange, yeast and garlic in dog food. Then for a rinse use eucalyptus and pennyroyal. Insects do not like hot or spicy things. It is necessary to understand that it is the adult flea you have to eliminate to have success in controlling fleas. Also remember cleanliness is imperative. Never let fido the dog and sassy the cat to mingle with neighbors pets, you don't know what they might have. Ray michellec <michellec wrote: I am on another list called Holisticat. On that list there have been several studies posted on the toxicity of tea tree oil for dogs (as well as cats). Tea tree oil is very strong and has even caused death in humans by ingesting. Cedar oil and citronella may be okay for dogs. A safer method may be boric acid, but even that has its drawbacks since it can be inhaled and cause asthma attacks in humans...can't be good for a doggy either. I have a friend who uses it without any apparent harm, but I've read that it can cause kidney damage. It is hard to find an alternative flea control that doesn't have a down side of some kind. Some folks treat their yards with nematodes. Michelle - erik aponte Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 20, 2003 8:45 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Digest Number 876 Hi, I have a Jack Russell Terrier that has a flea problem. I have heard that adding some Tea Tree Oil to the water or diet will help clear this up. I was wondering if anyone knew if this works, and if so, how much is needed. Thanks. Erik SBC DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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