Guest guest Posted June 18, 2003 Report Share Posted June 18, 2003 Does anyone here have experience with clients who have late onset Tay-Sachs disease? If so, is there anything specific to the disorder that I might anticipate revealing itself to me in a client's assessment? Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2003 Report Share Posted June 19, 2003 Hi Penel, This disease is unusual in some ways known as a hereditary metabolic disorder, known mostly in Ashkenazi Jews, causing .progressive mental and neurologic deterioration causing death by age five. A lipid, ganglioside GM2 accumulates in the brain due to the inadequate activity of the enzyme that breaks it down, with devastating neurological effects. Infants seem normal at birth, but soon become listless and inattentive, and then lose motor abilities.and then develop seizures.. Blindness and paralysis precede death and they can test fetuses and find the disease, but no known prevention or cure. I hope this helps if you need more contact me. Ray Penel Eynde LeGrand <hyldemoer wrote: Does anyone here have experience with clients who have late onset Tay-Sachs disease? If so, is there anything specific to the disorder that I might anticipate revealing itself to me in a client's assessment? Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2003 Report Share Posted June 21, 2003 Hi Ray, Yes, and then there's the late onset variety. The director of the clinc I'm in is an R.N. and he'd never heard of such a thing until the client shared this Western diagnosis. I ran a goggle and found this. <http://neuro-oas.mgh.harvard.edu/lots/merrilltxt.html> The traditions' of shiatsu I practice use 5 Element and not 8 Principle (though I'm trying to learn that also). The diagnosis I found seemed to resemble a balance one could expect from anyone one who worked in such a high power profession as this client and less (I feel) with the genetic adventure. The client gave the clinic director a rave review of my work as they were leaving but what happens over the next couple days will influence if they come in for shiatsu again (the truest feed-back). thank you for your input, Penel > > This disease is unusual in some ways known as a hereditary metabolic disorder, known mostly in Ashkenazi Jews, causing .progressive mental and neurologic deterioration causing death by age five. > > A lipid, ganglioside GM2 accumulates in the brain due to the inadequate activity of the enzyme that breaks it down, with devastating neurological effects. Infants seem normal at birth, but soon become listless and inattentive, and then lose motor abilities.and then develop seizures.. > > Blindness and paralysis precede death and they can test fetuses and find the disease, but no known prevention or cure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2003 Report Share Posted June 24, 2003 Hi Penel, I think I told you that I felt that in order to eradicate this type of disease is to concentrate more on the mother and her intake of nutrients so the baby can get the needed nutrition while inside of her. Anytime a baby is born with a disease it came from somewhere and since the baby only gets what the mother gives it inside, lack of or not enough of something needed is going to have its effect on the child before being born. For instance a child born to a drug mother, the baby is an addict when born. What you give is what you get. I believe the body is capable of miraculous things it is not a weak unresponding organ, but a resourceful, strong, able to recover from almost anything if given the right ingredients to recover problem solver. I believe we make too many things complicated and look for the excuse to stay sick, then recover. Penel Eynde LeGrand <hyldemoer wrote: Hi Ray, Yes, and then there's the late onset variety. The director of the clinc I'm in is an R.N. and he'd never heard of such a thing until the client shared this Western diagnosis. I ran a goggle and found this. <http://neuro-oas.mgh.harvard.edu/lots/merrilltxt.html> The traditions' of shiatsu I practice use 5 Element and not 8 Principle (though I'm trying to learn that also). The diagnosis I found seemed to resemble a balance one could expect from anyone one who worked in such a high power profession as this client and less (I feel) with the genetic adventure. The client gave the clinic director a rave review of my work as they were leaving but what happens over the next couple days will influence if they come in for shiatsu again (the truest feed-back). thank you for your input, Penel > > This disease is unusual in some ways known as a hereditary metabolic disorder, known mostly in Ashkenazi Jews, causing .progressive mental and neurologic deterioration causing death by age five. > > A lipid, ganglioside GM2 accumulates in the brain due to the inadequate activity of the enzyme that breaks it down, with devastating neurological effects. Infants seem normal at birth, but soon become listless and inattentive, and then lose motor abilities.and then develop seizures.. > > Blindness and paralysis precede death and they can test fetuses and find the disease, but no known prevention or cure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2003 Report Share Posted June 25, 2003 > I think I told you that I felt that in order > to eradicate this type of disease is to > concentrate more on the mother and her intake > of nutrients so the baby can get the needed > nutrition while inside of her. > > Anytime a baby is born with a disease it > came from somewhere and Ray, Prenatal nutrition has not shown to be a factor in a child developing or not developing Tay-Sacks. Tay-Sacks is currently thought of as a genetically inherited disorder. Until medicine can alter DNA, the only way to eradicate a genetic disorder is to test both the mother AND/OR father to see if both are carriers and if so, suggest they not mate to produce offspring. In the case of Tay-Sacks, if BOTH the mother and the father carry the gene, the offspring has a % to inherit the disorder. I never in my wildest dreams expected to cure my client's Tay-Sachs any more than I could change someone's brown eyes to blue. What I did expect to do is help a client find a way to a balance of chi that could be worked with inorder to find a quality of life no matter what way, shape or length of life it might be. What I was looking for on this list was, if anyone had experience with treating someone with Adult Onset Tay-Sachs, what any special things I should look for that would make diagnosis and treatment of this client by TCM methods not the same as with someone without Tay-Sachs. Tay-Sacks is not something that was been done to the child. It is what the child IS by the genetic design of both parents. If one has an adventure by the design of their genetic code, that is the material we have for working with. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share, Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 27, 2003 Report Share Posted June 27, 2003 Dear Penel, Problems just do not happen, there is a cause for everything. When we eliminate poor nutrition as a possible problem then we eliminate finding preventitives to possible problems. If we look at other third world countries and the problems they have with their birth defects what is the first thing we conclude? What do we send them first of all? More nutitious food, right, why? When you see certain diseases hampering certain groups of people what is the first thing that is checked on? Their food intake, why? Because we know that nutition is the number one problem in the defects of child birth. Why do we watch what we eat? because we know the problems which come from lack of a good diet of nutitious food. Simple test to perform, look at the history of the world as far as health is concerned. Have we eliminated most problems through better diets and healthier food or have we gotten worse from the food we eat. Now look at today and the problems we are having in health, why? Our food is being tampered with horrendously. Ingredients that effect our brain, such as partially hygrogenated soy bean and cotton seed oil. We know beef is a problem for those who have cancer, but in the hospitals what are they feeding cancer patients? BEEF. The list goes on and on all linked to our eating habits. It isn't like we don't have enough information of the problems bad foods have on us. Caffeine, there is enough information on caffeine to certainly make you think, you know their might be a possible problem in using caffeine. This is why people go to doctors and get an exam and findout the doctor can't find anything wrong with the them because, they find no problem with caffeine and so don't recognise the symptoms of the person as related to the use of caffeine. I would suggest to you to get two of the best books I have found on explaining our problems in health. Everything is nutrition related, good health or, bad health. These two books are, Jethro Kloss, BACK TO EDEN, which is the Bible of all health books, and Dr. Sheldon C. deal, NEW LIFE THROUGH NUTRITION. There is another doctor of very high quality and information, that is Dr. Christopher. I follow these three very closely in rules of engagement with the enemy of my body, and that is bad health and I am very healthy and never get sick or even a bad day. Why? because, I watch my diet and foods I take in to my body. If I step outside of that intake which occassionally I do, I feel the results, because my immune system is extremely strong I am able to get over it quickly. Doctoring isn't magic it is using common sense and research on your own experiment on your own and you will find that what I am saying is true, not because I say it is true but, the results say it is true. I have worked with many people who the doctors say would never be able to recover from their problem, guess what? They now are in very good health not because of me but, because of experimenting with what I have taught them about getting their health back. You of course are free to believe what you want and what doctors say, but lets look at their results. There has never been a cure in any virus related disease. All the money that has gone into cancer research over the years has not improved or moved us closer to an eradication of any of this disease or, any other diseases only stronger strains of it. Drugs have their place but not before every other effort has been taken to get rid of the problem. And finally, I don't know what your beliefs are, but mine are as follows, I believe our body is a temple to preserve through our sojourn on earth. I believe it was given for our benefit to enjoy good health while we are here. Anytime we abuse that we have a consequence to pay, sickness, disease, and everything else that comes from years of abuse to our bodies. Just go to the carecenters and see the results of abusive actions to our bodies. I take care of people in a carecenter and see the problem everyday. But your free to believe what you want, isn't America great because of that freedom. Sincerely Ray P.S. I am sorry I have one other thing to say about this problem we are talking about Tay-Sachs. When children are born to a drug mom, what happens to the child? Born in addiction right? So how can we say that a mothers diet before she becomes pregnant hasn't been so deleted of nutrients to affect the child? or how about the father who has abused his body changing his chromosones to who knows what through his abuse of incorrect eating habits. Remember, sickness comes from a brokendown immune system and when a baby is conceived and our systems are not up to par, what affect does it have on our children being born? Obviously a lot because when the doctors go to these third world countries what is the first thing they look at? FOOD INTAKE! WHY? Sincerely Ray. Penel Eynde LeGrand <hyldemoer wrote: > I think I told you that I felt that in order > to eradicate this type of disease is to > concentrate more on the mother and her intake > of nutrients so the baby can get the needed > nutrition while inside of her. > > Anytime a baby is born with a disease it > came from somewhere and Ray, Prenatal nutrition has not shown to be a factor in a child developing or not developing Tay-Sacks. Tay-Sacks is currently thought of as a genetically inherited disorder. Until medicine can alter DNA, the only way to eradicate a genetic disorder is to test both the mother AND/OR father to see if both are carriers and if so, suggest they not mate to produce offspring. In the case of Tay-Sacks, if BOTH the mother and the father carry the gene, the offspring has a % to inherit the disorder. I never in my wildest dreams expected to cure my client's Tay-Sachs any more than I could change someone's brown eyes to blue. What I did expect to do is help a client find a way to a balance of chi that could be worked with inorder to find a quality of life no matter what way, shape or length of life it might be. What I was looking for on this list was, if anyone had experience with treating someone with Adult Onset Tay-Sachs, what any special things I should look for that would make diagnosis and treatment of this client by TCM methods not the same as with someone without Tay-Sachs. Tay-Sacks is not something that was been done to the child. It is what the child IS by the genetic design of both parents. If one has an adventure by the design of their genetic code, that is the material we have for working with. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share, Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 ooops nutrition not nutition! Ray Zielinski <rmk_12z wrote:Dear Penel, Problems just do not happen, there is a cause for everything. When we eliminate poor nutrition as a possible problem then we eliminate finding preventitives to possible problems. If we look at other third world countries and the problems they have with their birth defects what is the first thing we conclude? What do we send them first of all? More nutitious food, right, why? When you see certain diseases hampering certain groups of people what is the first thing that is checked on? Their food intake, why? Because we know that nutition is the number one problem in the defects of child birth. Why do we watch what we eat? because we know the problems which come from lack of a good diet of nutitious food. Simple test to perform, look at the history of the world as far as health is concerned. Have we eliminated most problems through better diets and healthier food or have we gotten worse from the food we eat. Now look at today and the problems we are having in health, why? Our food is being tampered with horrendously. Ingredients that effect our brain, such as partially hygrogenated soy bean and cotton seed oil. We know beef is a problem for those who have cancer, but in the hospitals what are they feeding cancer patients? BEEF. The list goes on and on all linked to our eating habits. It isn't like we don't have enough information of the problems bad foods have on us. Caffeine, there is enough information on caffeine to certainly make you think, you know their might be a possible problem in using caffeine. This is why people go to doctors and get an exam and findout the doctor can't find anything wrong with the them because, they find no problem with caffeine and so don't recognise the symptoms of the person as related to the use of caffeine. I would suggest to you to get two of the best books I have found on explaining our problems in health. Everything is nutrition related, good health or, bad health. These two books are, Jethro Kloss, BACK TO EDEN, which is the Bible of all health books, and Dr. Sheldon C. deal, NEW LIFE THROUGH NUTRITION. There is another doctor of very high quality and information, that is Dr. Christopher. I follow these three very closely in rules of engagement with the enemy of my body, and that is bad health and I am very healthy and never get sick or even a bad day. Why? because, I watch my diet and foods I take in to my body. If I step outside of that intake which occassionally I do, I feel the results, because my immune system is extremely strong I am able to get over it quickly. Doctoring isn't magic it is using common sense and research on your own experiment on your own and you will find that what I am saying is true, not because I say it is true but, the results say it is true. I have worked with many people who the doctors say would never be able to recover from their problem, guess what? They now are in very good health not because of me but, because of experimenting with what I have taught them about getting their health back. You of course are free to believe what you want and what doctors say, but lets look at their results. There has never been a cure in any virus related disease. All the money that has gone into cancer research over the years has not improved or moved us closer to an eradication of any of this disease or, any other diseases only stronger strains of it. Drugs have their place but not before every other effort has been taken to get rid of the problem. And finally, I don't know what your beliefs are, but mine are as follows, I believe our body is a temple to preserve through our sojourn on earth. I believe it was given for our benefit to enjoy good health while we are here. Anytime we abuse that we have a consequence to pay, sickness, disease, and everything else that comes from years of abuse to our bodies. Just go to the carecenters and see the results of abusive actions to our bodies. I take care of people in a carecenter and see the problem everyday. But your free to believe what you want, isn't America great because of that freedom. Sincerely Ray P.S. I am sorry I have one other thing to say about this problem we are talking about Tay-Sachs. When children are born to a drug mom, what happens to the child? Born in addiction right? So how can we say that a mothers diet before she becomes pregnant hasn't been so deleted of nutrients to affect the child? or how about the father who has abused his body changing his chromosones to who knows what through his abuse of incorrect eating habits. Remember, sickness comes from a brokendown immune system and when a baby is conceived and our systems are not up to par, what affect does it have on our children being born? Obviously a lot because when the doctors go to these third world countries what is the first thing they look at? FOOD INTAKE! WHY? Sincerely Ray. Penel Eynde LeGrand <hyldemoer wrote: > I think I told you that I felt that in order > to eradicate this type of disease is to > concentrate more on the mother and her intake > of nutrients so the baby can get the needed > nutrition while inside of her. > > Anytime a baby is born with a disease it > came from somewhere and Ray, Prenatal nutrition has not shown to be a factor in a child developing or not developing Tay-Sacks. Tay-Sacks is currently thought of as a genetically inherited disorder. Until medicine can alter DNA, the only way to eradicate a genetic disorder is to test both the mother AND/OR father to see if both are carriers and if so, suggest they not mate to produce offspring. In the case of Tay-Sacks, if BOTH the mother and the father carry the gene, the offspring has a % to inherit the disorder. I never in my wildest dreams expected to cure my client's Tay-Sachs any more than I could change someone's brown eyes to blue. What I did expect to do is help a client find a way to a balance of chi that could be worked with inorder to find a quality of life no matter what way, shape or length of life it might be. What I was looking for on this list was, if anyone had experience with treating someone with Adult Onset Tay-Sachs, what any special things I should look for that would make diagnosis and treatment of this client by TCM methods not the same as with someone without Tay-Sachs. Tay-Sacks is not something that was been done to the child. It is what the child IS by the genetic design of both parents. If one has an adventure by the design of their genetic code, that is the material we have for working with. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share, Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 I don't think anyone is disputing the significance of good nutrition. That said, however, we don't send quality food to third world countries because we are hoping to change a population's genetic composition. The food is intended to help each child start life with a strong and healthy consititution. Growth and development can be strengthened or weakened depending upon one's intake of food. Genetic mutations may occur as a result of any number of factors, but the mutations cannot be reversed by nutrition. As Penel stated, if both the mother and father are carriers of Tay-Sachs, the child has a 25% chance of developing the disease, a 50% chance of becoming a carrier, and a 25% chance of " walking away clean. " Neither parent's nutrition has an impact on whether a carrier or non-carrier sperm fertilize the egg (although some would argue that certain positions might be influential!). The mother's nutrition has no impact on whether the fertilized egg is a carrier or a non-carrier; recall that all of a woman's eggs exist before her own birth, before she consumes even one morsal of her own nutritious food. Good nutrition is critical to health maintenance and improvement, and it will enable an individual afflicted with a debilitating disorder to live life to their fullest potential, but let's not suggest that it can work miracles (such as reversing genetically inherited disorders). Respectfully, Jessica - Ray Zielinski Chinese Traditional Medicine Friday, June 27, 2003 2:41 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: late onset Tay-Sachs disease Dear Penel, Problems just do not happen, there is a cause for everything. When we eliminate poor nutrition as a possible problem then we eliminate finding preventitives to possible problems. If we look at other third world countries and the problems they have with their birth defects what is the first thing we conclude? What do we send them first of all? More nutitious food, right, why? When you see certain diseases hampering certain groups of people what is the first thing that is checked on? Their food intake, why? Because we know that nutition is the number one problem in the defects of child birth. Why do we watch what we eat? because we know the problems which come from lack of a good diet of nutitious food. Simple test to perform, look at the history of the world as far as health is concerned. Have we eliminated most problems through better diets and healthier food or have we gotten worse from the food we eat. Now look at today and the problems we are having in health, why? Our food is being tampered with horrendously. Ingredients that effect our brain, such as partially hygrogenated soy bean and cotton seed oil. We know beef is a problem for those who have cancer, but in the hospitals what are they feeding cancer patients? BEEF. The list goes on and on all linked to our eating habits. It isn't like we don't have enough information of the problems bad foods have on us. Caffeine, there is enough information on caffeine to certainly make you think, you know their might be a possible problem in using caffeine. This is why people go to doctors and get an exam and findout the doctor can't find anything wrong with the them because, they find no problem with caffeine and so don't recognise the symptoms of the person as related to the use of caffeine. I would suggest to you to get two of the best books I have found on explaining our problems in health. Everything is nutrition related, good health or, bad health. These two books are, Jethro Kloss, BACK TO EDEN, which is the Bible of all health books, and Dr. Sheldon C. deal, NEW LIFE THROUGH NUTRITION. There is another doctor of very high quality and information, that is Dr. Christopher. I follow these three very closely in rules of engagement with the enemy of my body, and that is bad health and I am very healthy and never get sick or even a bad day. Why? because, I watch my diet and foods I take in to my body. If I step outside of that intake which occassionally I do, I feel the results, because my immune system is extremely strong I am able to get over it quickly. Doctoring isn't magic it is using common sense and research on your own experiment on your own and you will find that what I am saying is true, not because I say it is true but, the results say it is true. I have worked with many people who the doctors say would never be able to recover from their problem, guess what? They now are in very good health not because of me but, because of experimenting with what I have taught them about getting their health back. You of course are free to believe what you want and what doctors say, but lets look at their results. There has never been a cure in any virus related disease. All the money that has gone into cancer research over the years has not improved or moved us closer to an eradication of any of this disease or, any other diseases only stronger strains of it. Drugs have their place but not before every other effort has been taken to get rid of the problem. And finally, I don't know what your beliefs are, but mine are as follows, I believe our body is a temple to preserve through our sojourn on earth. I believe it was given for our benefit to enjoy good health while we are here. Anytime we abuse that we have a consequence to pay, sickness, disease, and everything else that comes from years of abuse to our bodies. Just go to the carecenters and see the results of abusive actions to our bodies. I take care of people in a carecenter and see the problem everyday. But your free to believe what you want, isn't America great because of that freedom. Sincerely Ray P.S. I am sorry I have one other thing to say about this problem we are talking about Tay-Sachs. When children are born to a drug mom, what happens to the child? Born in addiction right? So how can we say that a mothers diet before she becomes pregnant hasn't been so deleted of nutrients to affect the child? or how about the father who has abused his body changing his chromosones to who knows what through his abuse of incorrect eating habits. Remember, sickness comes from a brokendown immune system and when a baby is conceived and our systems are not up to par, what affect does it have on our children being born? Obviously a lot because when the doctors go to these third world countries what is the first thing they look at? FOOD INTAKE! WHY? Sincerely Ray. Penel Eynde LeGrand <hyldemoer wrote: > I think I told you that I felt that in order > to eradicate this type of disease is to > concentrate more on the mother and her intake > of nutrients so the baby can get the needed > nutrition while inside of her. > > Anytime a baby is born with a disease it > came from somewhere and Ray, Prenatal nutrition has not shown to be a factor in a child developing or not developing Tay-Sacks. Tay-Sacks is currently thought of as a genetically inherited disorder. Until medicine can alter DNA, the only way to eradicate a genetic disorder is to test both the mother AND/OR father to see if both are carriers and if so, suggest they not mate to produce offspring. In the case of Tay-Sacks, if BOTH the mother and the father carry the gene, the offspring has a % to inherit the disorder. I never in my wildest dreams expected to cure my client's Tay-Sachs any more than I could change someone's brown eyes to blue. What I did expect to do is help a client find a way to a balance of chi that could be worked with inorder to find a quality of life no matter what way, shape or length of life it might be. What I was looking for on this list was, if anyone had experience with treating someone with Adult Onset Tay-Sachs, what any special things I should look for that would make diagnosis and treatment of this client by TCM methods not the same as with someone without Tay-Sachs. Tay-Sacks is not something that was been done to the child. It is what the child IS by the genetic design of both parents. If one has an adventure by the design of their genetic code, that is the material we have for working with. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share, Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 Dear Ray, ARTHRITIS : Take one part honey to two parts of luke warm water and add a small teaspoon of cinnamon powder, make a paste and massage it on the itching part of the body slowly. It is noticed that the pain recedes within a minute or two. Or arthritis paients may daily, morning and night take one cup of hot water with two spoons of honey and one small teaspoon of cinamon powder. If drunk regularly even chronic arthritis can be cured. In a recent research done at the Coppen hagen University, it was found that when the doctors treated their patients with a mixture of one tablespoon Honey and half teaspoon cinnamon powder before breakfast, they found that within a week out of the 200 people so treated practically 73 patients were totally relieved of pain and within a month, mostly all the patients who could not walk or move around because of arthritis started walking without pain. regards, Tanveer Ray Zielinski <rmk_12z wrote: ooops nutrition not nutition! Ray Zielinski <rmk_12z wrote:Dear Penel, Problems just do not happen, there is a cause for everything. When we eliminate poor nutrition as a possible problem then we eliminate finding preventitives to possible problems. If we look at other third world countries and the problems they have with their birth defects what is the first thing we conclude? What do we send them first of all? More nutitious food, right, why? When you see certain diseases hampering certain groups of people what is the first thing that is checked on? Their food intake, why? Because we know that nutition is the number one problem in the defects of child birth. Why do we watch what we eat? because we know the problems which come from lack of a good diet of nutitious food. Simple test to perform, look at the history of the world as far as health is concerned. Have we eliminated most problems through better diets and healthier food or have we gotten worse from the food we eat. Now look at today and the problems we are having in health, why? Our food is being tampered with horrendously. Ingredients that effect our brain, such as partially hygrogenated soy bean and cotton seed oil. We know beef is a problem for those who have cancer, but in the hospitals what are they feeding cancer patients? BEEF. The list goes on and on all linked to our eating habits. It isn't like we don't have enough information of the problems bad foods have on us. Caffeine, there is enough information on caffeine to certainly make you think, you know their might be a possible problem in using caffeine. This is why people go to doctors and get an exam and findout the doctor can't find anything wrong with the them because, they find no problem with caffeine and so don't recognise the symptoms of the person as related to the use of caffeine. I would suggest to you to get two of the best books I have found on explaining our problems in health. Everything is nutrition related, good health or, bad health. These two books are, Jethro Kloss, BACK TO EDEN, which is the Bible of all health books, and Dr. Sheldon C. deal, NEW LIFE THROUGH NUTRITION. There is another doctor of very high quality and information, that is Dr. Christopher. I follow these three very closely in rules of engagement with the enemy of my body, and that is bad health and I am very healthy and never get sick or even a bad day. Why? because, I watch my diet and foods I take in to my body. If I step outside of that intake which occassionally I do, I feel the results, because my immune system is extremely strong I am able to get over it quickly. Doctoring isn't magic it is using common sense and research on your own experiment on your own and you will find that what I am saying is true, not because I say it is true but, the results say it is true. I have worked with many people who the doctors say would never be able to recover from their problem, guess what? They now are in very good health not because of me but, because of experimenting with what I have taught them about getting their health back. You of course are free to believe what you want and what doctors say, but lets look at their results. There has never been a cure in any virus related disease. All the money that has gone into cancer research over the years has not improved or moved us closer to an eradication of any of this disease or, any other diseases only stronger strains of it. Drugs have their place but not before every other effort has been taken to get rid of the problem. And finally, I don't know what your beliefs are, but mine are as follows, I believe our body is a temple to preserve through our sojourn on earth. I believe it was given for our benefit to enjoy good health while we are here. Anytime we abuse that we have a consequence to pay, sickness, disease, and everything else that comes from years of abuse to our bodies. Just go to the carecenters and see the results of abusive actions to our bodies. I take care of people in a carecenter and see the problem everyday. But your free to believe what you want, isn't America great because of that freedom. Sincerely Ray P.S. I am sorry I have one other thing to say about this problem we are talking about Tay-Sachs. When children are born to a drug mom, what happens to the child? Born in addiction right? So how can we say that a mothers diet before she becomes pregnant hasn't been so deleted of nutrients to affect the child? or how about the father who has abused his body changing his chromosones to who knows what through his abuse of incorrect eating habits. Remember, sickness comes from a brokendown immune system and when a baby is conceived and our systems are not up to par, what affect does it have on our children being born? Obviously a lot because when the doctors go to these third world countries what is the first thing they look at? FOOD INTAKE! WHY? Sincerely Ray. Penel Eynde LeGrand <hyldemoer wrote: > I think I told you that I felt that in order > to eradicate this type of disease is to > concentrate more on the mother and her intake > of nutrients so the baby can get the needed > nutrition while inside of her. > > Anytime a baby is born with a disease it > came from somewhere and Ray, Prenatal nutrition has not shown to be a factor in a child developing or not developing Tay-Sacks. Tay-Sacks is currently thought of as a genetically inherited disorder. Until medicine can alter DNA, the only way to eradicate a genetic disorder is to test both the mother AND/OR father to see if both are carriers and if so, suggest they not mate to produce offspring. In the case of Tay-Sacks, if BOTH the mother and the father carry the gene, the offspring has a % to inherit the disorder. I never in my wildest dreams expected to cure my client's Tay-Sachs any more than I could change someone's brown eyes to blue. What I did expect to do is help a client find a way to a balance of chi that could be worked with inorder to find a quality of life no matter what way, shape or length of life it might be. What I was looking for on this list was, if anyone had experience with treating someone with Adult Onset Tay-Sachs, what any special things I should look for that would make diagnosis and treatment of this client by TCM methods not the same as with someone without Tay-Sachs. Tay-Sacks is not something that was been done to the child. It is what the child IS by the genetic design of both parents. If one has an adventure by the design of their genetic code, that is the material we have for working with. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share, Penel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 --- Jessica Klein <jlklein wrote: > but let's not suggest that it can work miracles > (such as reversing genetically inherited disorders). That will be up to each individual to decide, I think. I don't accept your doctrine. This thing about genes not changing except due to random mutations sounds very similar to the theory ten years ago or so that nerve and brains cells could not be regenerated. Stating a negative as if it could be proven is usually a risky bet to take. See you, Hugo ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://uk.messenger./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Hugo, Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to clarify my post. The half-sentence that is clipped below was perhaps poorly-worded, and did not accurately reflect the content of my entire message. It was not my intention to assert that all genetic disorders are irreversible. The following link has great information on the progress of gene therapy. http://www.ornl.gov/TechResources/Human_Genome/medicine/genetherapy.html My post was directed at Ray's contention that poor nutrition is responsible for or can cure genetic diseases, such as Tay-Sachs. His stress on nutrition and de-emphasis on the genetic make-up of individuals is analogous to emphasis on the importance of gu qi (grain qi or acquired qi) and de-emphasis of jing qi (essential qi). Both jing qi and gu qi are critical to the development of zhen qi (original qi). To suggest that gu qi is superior to and can overcome any boundaries imposed by jing qi contradicts the theory of chinese medicine. " Fundamentals of " (Wiseman, Ellis) on pg 69 clearly states my position , " Essential qi is derived from the reproductive essence of the parents (congenital essence) from which the fetus develops. After birth, it is gradually nurtured by the essence of grain and water (acquired qi). " Acquired qi SUPPORTS essential qi: nutrition SUPPORTS genetics. Regards, Jessica - Hugo Ramiro Chinese Traditional Medicine Sunday, June 29, 2003 8:39 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: late onset Tay-Sachs disease --- Jessica Klein <jlklein wrote: > but let's not suggest that it can work miracles > (such as reversing genetically inherited disorders). That will be up to each individual to decide, I think. I don't accept your doctrine. This thing about genes not changing except due to random mutations sounds very similar to the theory ten years ago or so that nerve and brains cells could not be regenerated. Stating a negative as if it could be proven is usually a risky bet to take. See you, Hugo ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://uk.messenger./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 > ARTHRITIS : Take one part honey to two parts of luke warm water and add a > > small teaspoon of cinnamon powder, make a paste and massage it on the > > itching part of the body slowly. It is noticed that the pain recedes > > within a minute or two. Or arthritis paients may daily, morning and night > > take one cup of hot water with two spoons of honey and one small teaspoon > > of cinamon powder. If drunk regularly even chronic arthritis can be cured. > > In a recent research done at the Coppen hagen University, it was found > > that when the doctors treated their patients with a mixture of one > > tablespoon Honey and half teaspoon cinnamon powder before breakfast, they > > found that within a week out of the 200 people so treated practically 73 > > patients were totally relieved of pain and within a month, mostly all the > > patients who could not walk or move around because of arthritis started > > walking without pain. > regards, Note that cinnamom has warming thermal energy. (I believe honey also has a warming effect on the body, but I'm not sure about this.) TCM recognizes that Dampness, Wind, and/or Cold play a role in cases of arthritis/ rheumatism. The Chinese call this condition " Painful Obstruction Syndrome " or " Bi Syndrome " . Note the country referenced. Denmark (Coppenhagen) is a very cold country! Lying as far north as it does, one is going to see a lot of Cold imbalances and problems caused primarily by Cold. This mixture may help someone whose arthritis and other pain problems have a large factor of Cold, but it would not necessarily help someone whose arthritis or other pain is does not have a Cold component. Because of the warming nature of cinnamon, it could make some people - those with Deficiency Heat (Yin Deficiency) or Excess Heat problems sicker than they are. One of the biggest strengths of TCM is its concern with predicting exactly when a particular healing substance is called for and when it is contraindicated. TCM pays far more attention to being able to predict exactly than Western establishment medicine does. It's not always possible to predict exactly, and sometimes even TCM healers have to resort to " try it and see if it helps " . Even in these cases TCM healers pay a great deal of attention to contraindications. The information does not mention which part of the cinnamon plant is being used. This is important because sometimes different parts of a plant have different properties. Cinnamon bark (Cortex (bark of) Cinnamomi Cassiae, aka Rou Gui) is acrid and sweet and has Hot thermal energy. It targets the Heart, Kidney, Liver, and Spleen in particular. It's classified as an Herb that Warms the Interior and Expels Cold. On the other hand, cinnamon twigs (Ramulus (twigs of) Cinnamomi Cassiae, aka Gui Zhi) is acrid and sweet but has Warm thermal energy. It targets the Heart, Lung, and Bladder in particular. It is classified as an Herb that Warms and Releases the Exterior. For readers new to TCM, there are early posts in the message base dealing with Interior and Exterior. In brief, Exterior refers to the head, neck, arms, legs, skin, muscles, bones, and meridians (paths of Qi flow). Interior refers to the trunk of the body and the internal Organs. Exterior/ Interior is a key concept in TCM when it comes to analysis and treatment. Along with Deficiency/ Excess, Yin/ Yang, and Cold/ Hot, it makes up an approach to analysis called " The Eight Principle Patterns. In general, Interior problems (when the internal Organs are affected) are a lot more serious and harder to treat than Exterior problems. Believe it or not, as painful and as debilitating as arthritis can be, it's an Exterior imbalance. (Though the Pernicious Evils (Cold, Wind, Damp) can become trapped and turn into Fire and even invade to the Interior). Cinnamon twigs - not the bark - frequently get used in formulas where there is a problem with Cold attacking the Exterior. This includes cases of arthritis and rheumatism with a significant Cold component. Cinnamon twigs are classified as an Herb that Warms the Exterior, and Bi Syndrome is an Exterior imbalance. Cinnamon bark is classified as an Herb That Warms the Interior. Are there any cases where an herbalist might include cinnamon bark in a formula for someone with arthritis? Yes, when the person suffers from long-term Kidney Yang Deficiency. Long-term Kidney Yang Deficiency is one of the things that can cause a person to be particularly susceptible to External Cold. Cinnamon bark in addition to Warming the Interior, also has the property of fortifying the Yang and the Kidneys. In arthritis sufferers who have a significant Kidney Yang Deficiency underlay, it will be necessary to stop the Cold before it can attack the Exterior of the body. In these cases, since the Yang Deficiency is making the person so susceptible to invasion by Cold, address the problem of making the person less vulnerable (fortify the Yang and the Kidneys), and the Cold doesn't get in the Exterior portions of the body to cause problems. Cinnamon bark also is particularly useful in cases where there are breathing problems due to the Kidneys Failing to Grasp Qi (a form of Kidney Yang Deficiency). It also gets used in cases of True Cold - False Heat and in some other cases where the upper part of the body is Hot but the bottom part is Cold. It leads Heat to the lower part of the body. Both cinnamon bark and cinnamon twigs are contraindicated in case of Heat as they add Heat to the body (even though cinnamaldehyde has fever lowering effects). (Trained herbalists know when to use it and when not to use it.) One other thing: Whenever you quote articles verbatim instead of merely paraphasing general information), please credit the source. Victoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 --- Jessica Klein <jlklein wrote: > Hugo, > > Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to clarify > my post Thanks for clarifying - I will also clarify. I agree with everything you state, and take it just one step further. Supporting and protecting the Jing Qi via nutrition and good air and good lifestyle (environment, emotions) _changes_ and _strengthens_ one's Jing so that inherited disorders become weaker, and, over generations, phased out. However, as yous ay, congenital deficiencies like 'tay-sachs' are very strong and deep and we cannot usually think of cure within one generation. Bye Hugo ______________________ Want to chat instantly with your online friends? Get the FREE Messenger http://uk.messenger./ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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