New Scientist -=- Icy claim that water has memory

[Guest guest]

Hi!

 

This subject fascinates me. It holds the secret to the burgeoning field of

quantum biology and the medicine of tomorrow that will incorporate both

eastern and western methodology.

 

Although it mentions homeopathic medicine and not TCM, the idea that a

'virtual substance' can be created which then interacts with the body's

immune system without any toxicity leads in to the idea in TCM that the

'whole (medicine) is greater than the sum of its parts'.

 

I have spoken to several TCM docs about homeopathic medicine and although

they have never heard of it they are usually very eager to find out more.

They find the notion of potentisation curious but not unbelievable since

they still have an idea that Qi is a real thing. If you try to talk to a

western trained doc about homeopathic potentisation they become increasingly

uncomfortable and the conversation takes a downward spiral because western

reductionist science has failed to grasp the role of subtle energy.

 

As for TCM, I believe that TCM cooking of herbs creates molecular electron

configurations (patterns of charge) which then interact with body systems to

create new balances and eliminate old disharmonies. The connection with

other TCM techniques such as acupuncture and qigong is through the meridians

and collaterals which act as a communication system between the organs. This

system of communication in the body predates the nervous system, circulation

system, lymphatic system and was there in the womb as the embryo developed.

Although in later life the other systems of organ communication play a

larger role in support of life systems the meridians are still there in the

background, promoting / restricting - coordinating.

 

There is a great companion article about this I will upload if Victoria will

give me permission. I'll check.

 

Later,

 

Sammy.

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993817

 

Icy claim that water has memory

 

19:00 11 June 03

 

Exclusive from New Scientist Print Edition

 

Claims do not come much more controversial than the idea that water

might retain a memory of substances once dissolved in it. The notion

is central to homeopathy, which treats patients with samples so

dilute they are unlikely to contain a single molecule of the active

compound, but it is generally ridiculed by scientists.

Holding such a heretical view famously cost one of France's top

allergy researchers, Jacques Benveniste, his funding, labs and

reputation after his findings were discredited in 1988.

Yet a paper is about to be published in the reputable journal

Physica A claiming to show that even though they should be

identical, the structure of hydrogen bonds in pure water is very

different from that in homeopathic dilutions of salt solutions.

Could it be time to take the " memory " of water seriously?

The paper's author, Swiss chemist Louis Rey, is using

thermoluminescence to study the structure of solids. The technique

involves bathing a chilled sample with radiation. When the sample is

warmed up, the stored energy is released as light in a pattern that

reflects the atomic structure of the sample.

 

Twin peaks

 

When Rey used the method on ice he saw two peaks of light, at

temperatures of around 120 K and 170 K. Rey wanted to test the idea,

suggested by other researchers, that the 170 K peak reflects the

pattern of hydrogen bonds within the ice. In his experiments he used

heavy water (which contains the heavy hydrogen isotope deuterium),

because it has stronger hydrogen bonds than normal water.

 

Unexplained results

After studying pure samples, Rey looked at solutions of lithium

chloride and sodium chloride. Lithium chloride destroys hydrogen

bonds, as does sodium chloride, but to a lesser extent. Sure enough,

the peak was smaller for a solution of sodium chloride, and

disappeared completely for a lithium chloride solution.

Aware of homeopaths' claims that patterns of hydrogen bonds can

survive successive dilutions, Rey decided to test samples that had

been diluted down to a notional 10-30 grams per cubic centimetre -

way beyond the point when any ions of the original substance could

remain. " We thought it would be of interest to challenge the

theory, " he says.

Each dilution was made according to a strict protocol, and

vigorously stirred at each stage, as homeopaths do. When Rey

compared the ultra-dilute lithium and sodium chloride solutions with

pure water that had been through the same process, the difference in

their thermoluminescence peaks compared with pure water was still

there (see graph).

" Much to our surprise, the thermoluminescence glows of the three

systems were substantially different, " he says. He believes the

result proves that the networks of hydrogen bonds in the samples

were different.

 

< snip>

 

 

Lionel Milgrom

[Guest guest]

> This subject fascinates me. It holds the secret to the burgeoning field of

> quantum biology and the medicine of tomorrow that will incorporate both

> eastern and western methodology.

 

 

There was an intesting TV programme on this in the UK. Some bonafide

scientists working on allergens were assessing reactions in a particular

type of cell, basophils I think. They started diluting the allergenic

substance, and found when they got down to the equivalent of homeopathic

dilutions, the basophils were still reacting!

 

I can quite believe water has memory. It might even explain why liquid

medications (for horses) seem to work in much smaller doses.

 

It does however have alarming ramifications for 'treated' tap water that was

once full of chemicals, pesticides etc.

 

Jackie

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the interestng article. It's always good

to find ammunition...?

 

 

 

--- ga.bates wrote: >

 

> As for TCM, I believe that TCM cooking of herbs

> creates molecular electron

> configurations (patterns of charge) which then

> interact with body systems

 

Fe;lt like adding my p o v here...I don't believe

that what is " happening " re homeopathic solutions is

special or strange or unusual. As you say above,

cooking herbs does the same thing, but then again, so

does cooking a split pea soup, or putting lemons into

a glass of water, or even putting a glass of water in

the fridge or in the sunlight. Homeopathy simply

extends the process via succesive dilutions.

As far as qi goes, I thinkyou're right, it really is

'qi'. But then everything is just a particular qi

'variety' anyway, right?

Last winter I saved the clinic fish by filling a bowl

of water with him in it with as much qi as I could.

I hear that that's a common method for qi gong

healers - filling water with qi. Water is a very

'neutral' substance in some ways. It is the solvent

for other energies/things.

It's great.

 

See you,

Hugo

 

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