Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 I have read tonics can cause damp and stagnation. Stagnation I can guess because one is 'overloading the wire' and if the 'rheostat' is not fully open, 'pressure' can build up behind it. But how could they cause damp? If damp arises because of eg spleen qi deficiency, is it solely yin tonics than can engender damp? Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 Think of Yin tonics as kind of thick and heavy as many of them are. They're difficult to digest. Not all Yin tonics, just some. Some Blood tonics are hard to digest too. Adding something to the Spleen that is difficult to digest can cause it to become deficient. A deficient spleen can give rise to dampness as dampness is the outcome of inefficient digestion. -al. On Friday, April 18, 2003, at 05:05 PM, jackie wrote: > I have read tonics can cause damp and stagnation. > > Stagnation I can guess because one is 'overloading the wire' and if the > 'rheostat' is not fully open, 'pressure' can build up behind it. > > But how could they cause damp? If damp arises because of eg spleen qi > deficiency, is it solely yin tonics than can engender damp? > > Jackie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 > Think of Yin tonics as kind of thick and heavy as many of them are. > They're difficult to digest. Not all Yin tonics, just some. Some Blood > tonics are hard to digest too. Adding something to the Spleen that is > difficult to digest can cause it to become deficient. Right. Is Bai Shao one of them? Han Lian Cao? Thanks, Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 While Bai Shao isn't especially thick or difficult to digest, it is cold and that could be a problem if you have clear diarrhea with undigested bits of food in it or otherwise run cold (Yang deficiency). Other than that, its okay. Han Lian Cao is much the same as above. If you have a Yang deficiency, its cold nature can aggravate that condition. Yang deficiency is much like a thyroid deficiency. The metabolism is deficient giving rise to cold extremities and/or early morning diarrhea. This diarrhea may occur at other times of the day too, though it is unique in that it is watery and may include undigested bits of food in it. The source for this informaiton is Chinese Herbal Medicine Materia Medical by Bensky/Gamble. -al. On Saturday, April 19, 2003, at 03:46 AM, jackie wrote: > > >> Think of Yin tonics as kind of thick and heavy as many of them are. >> They're difficult to digest. Not all Yin tonics, just some. Some Blood >> tonics are hard to digest too. Adding something to the Spleen that is >> difficult to digest can cause it to become deficient. > > > Right. Is Bai Shao one of them? Han Lian Cao? > Thanks, > > Jackie > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 > Yang deficiency is much like a thyroid deficiency. The metabolism is > deficient giving rise to cold extremities and/or early morning > diarrhea. Thanks, I agree yang deficiency sounds very like hypothyroidism, and I have seen it quoted as such in several places, but, hypothyroidism tends to cause constipation, not diarrhoea? Spleen qi deficiency has also been linked to hypothyroidism, but similarly causes diarrhoea I thought? Is there something like phlegm or heat that could make one appear like the other - some heat conditions are characterised by constipation aren't they? Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 I know phlegm has a character of it's own, but is it in fact like 'very bad damp'?? Might phlegm clearing herbs therefore help dampness? Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 On Saturday, April 19, 2003, at 02:01 PM, jackie wrote: >> Yang deficiency is much like a thyroid deficiency. The metabolism is >> deficient giving rise to cold extremities and/or early morning >> diarrhea. > > Thanks, I agree yang deficiency sounds very like > hypothyroidism, and I have seen it quoted as such in several places, > but, > hypothyroidism tends to cause constipation, not diarrhoea? Spleen qi > deficiency has also been linked to hypothyroidism, but similarly causes > diarrhoea I thought? Spleen Qi deficiency can cause dampness, which can be expressed as that watery diarrhea. It can also cause constipation in that the person may not have enough umph to push out the feces. Umph is qi. ; ) > Is there something like phlegm or heat that could make one appear like > the > other - some heat conditions are characterised by constipation aren't > they? Sure, but the mechanism is always heat damaging the fluids in the intestines which gives rise to hard, dry stools and hence, constipation. As for phlegm causing constipation, that's a new one on me. -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. -Adlai Stevenson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2003 Report Share Posted April 19, 2003 On Saturday, April 19, 2003, at 02:03 PM, jackie wrote: > I know phlegm has a character of it's own, but is it in fact like > 'very bad > damp'?? Might phlegm clearing herbs therefore help dampness? Sure, in many cases, but not always. Phlegm is much like dampness but it is said to have form while dampness is either like fog or fluid, kind of formless. -- Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. -Adlai Stevenson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 > Thanks, I agree yang deficiency sounds very like > hypothyroidism, and I have seen it quoted as such in several places, but, > hypothyroidism tends to cause constipation, not diarrhoea? Spleen qi > deficiency has also been linked to hypothyroidism, but similarly causes > diarrhoea I thought? Different types of constipation have different underlying TCM imbalances. There is a Yang Deficiency constipation which probably could more aptly be described as colonic inertia. Yang activates (and warms and dries), and in Yang Deficiency constipation the wave-like motions of the intestines which moves fecal matter along are not getting activated. Also keep in mind that Cold can invade the Intestines directly from the Exterior. Cold slows things down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 Please remove my name from your list? victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote:> Thanks, I agree yang deficiency sounds very like > hypothyroidism, and I have seen it quoted as such in several places, but, > hypothyroidism tends to cause constipation, not diarrhoea? Spleen qi > deficiency has also been linked to hypothyroidism, but similarly causes > diarrhoea I thought? Different types of constipation have different underlying TCM imbalances. There is a Yang Deficiency constipation which probably could more aptly be described as colonic inertia. Yang activates (and warms and dries), and in Yang Deficiency constipation the wave-like motions of the intestines which moves fecal matter along are not getting activated. Also keep in mind that Cold can invade the Intestines directly from the Exterior. Cold slows things down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2003 Report Share Posted April 21, 2003 > Different types of constipation have different underlying TCM > imbalances. There is a Yang Deficiency constipation which probably > could more aptly be described as colonic inertia. Yang activates (and > warms and dries), and in Yang Deficiency constipation the wave-like > motions of the intestines which moves fecal matter along are not > getting activated. Ah yes, 'low gut motility'. That makes sense with what I know of hypothyroidism. Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 26, 2003 Report Share Posted April 26, 2003 Hi: I am new to Chinese medicine, then how you will treat Yang deficiency constipation from hypothyroid? Any herbs or points will help? Thank you! Lillian --- jackie <jackie wrote: > > > Different types of constipation have different > underlying TCM > > imbalances. There is a Yang Deficiency > constipation which probably > > could more aptly be described as colonic inertia. > Yang activates (and > > warms and dries), and in Yang Deficiency > constipation the wave-like > > motions of the intestines which moves fecal matter > along are not > > getting activated. > > Ah yes, 'low gut motility'. That makes sense with > what I know of > hypothyroidism. > > Jackie > > The New Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 29, 2003 Report Share Posted April 29, 2003 > I am new to Chinese medicine, then how you will treat > Yang deficiency constipation from hypothyroid? Any > herbs or points will help? In my case Yang tonic herbs like epimedium and herbs to warm the Interior like dried ginger helped a lot. It's not TCM (not yet, anyway) but cayenne pepper has the specific property of increasing peritalsis in the large intestine. But cayenne can disperse Qi, so you'll also need to be on Qi tonic and Yang tonic herbs. The cayenne pepper worked best in my case when mixed with food. Like homemade chili. The capsules work best for other people. Acupoints like Large Intestine 4 and Large Intestine 11 helped a little but not as much as I needed. BTW, LI 4 is contraindicated in the case of a pregnant woman. (It can bring on premature labor.) Qi Gong helped a lot. For those new to TCM who just joined the list, these are treatments for constipation due to Kidney Yang Deficiency. These treatments would not work for constipation due to other causes and could even make those cases worse. Victoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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