Guest guest Posted February 25, 2003 Report Share Posted February 25, 2003 Here's some more, plus abbreviations you can learn to make writing about this and communicating between LAc's easier: Liv qi yu = Liver qi stagnation Liver xue xu = Liver blood deficiency/vacuity Liver xue xu sxs (symptoms) are dizziness, insomnia, profuse dreaming, flowery vision, blurred vision, floaters, inhibited sinew movement, lusterless nails, scant menstrual flow, etc. Pale tongue, thin/thready pulse Some of those sxs are rather general xue xu sxs... What tells you the xue xu is in the Liver are more Liver-specific thangs like it affects the vision/eyes, nails, sinews. Those are organs/tissues controlled by the Liver. Liv xue xu vs. Liv qi yu- xue belongs to yin qi belongs to yang yin and yang are mutually interdependent, etc. so are xue and qi When qi is shi (excess/replete), xue may be damaged... just as yang can consume yin. the difference is: qi and xue have no temperature. yin and yang are cold and hot respectively. But, qi yu can turn to heat/fire (Liver qi yu heat or Liver fire) xue xu can turn to yin xu (Liver yin xu) Then you see Liver fire sxs: sudden tinnitus, sudden deafness, constipation (a general heat/fire sx), rapid wiry pulse, rough yellow tongue coating with Liv yin xu, you can get Liver yang ascending Liv yang ascending can be differentiated from Liver fire because there are yin xu sxs and signs (s & s). There can also be Liver wind (from xue xu, yang ascending, or fire) Liver wind sxs: rigid neck, tremor in eyes tongue and hands, inhibited speech, numbness of limbs, jerking sinews, convulsions, tetany Liver wind can be as simple as a calf spasm from xue xu, or as extreme as a wind-stroke or seizure. That's most of the Liver patterns. As you can see, simplest most benign to complex and serious are: 1. Liver qi yu or xue xu 2. Liver qi yu and xue xu 3. Liver qi yu heat/fire or Liver yin xu (with or without yang ascending) 4. Liver wind That's just diagnosis. When you have a diagnosis that explains all the symptoms, then you can move to herbal treatment. I start with whatever herb formulas are suggested by the patterns- then you have from 1-3 guiding prescriptions. Then I look at the whole thing, remove redundant herbs, choose between similar herbs which ones are best- consider traditional combos of 2-3 herbs and maybe keep them intact... this part of CM is more complex and controversial- Some say that you can't just start from scratch with single herbs' functions and expect a formula to work- that you must at least consider 2-3 herb combos- others believe you must only add to a classical rx because subtracting might eliminate the effect of the formula (that there are unmapped synergies between the herbs in the classical formula that may disappear with the elim of one or another herb) Personally, I have had the experience that a from-scratch-rx that should've worked didn't- so I am open to those ideas above... One compromise is to combine whole formulas- say you combine 2 or 3 guiding formulas into one- you can do that with liquids like Far East's classic line. That's also a quicker way clinically to get herbs to the patient that you're pretty sure will work. B Brian Benjamin Carter Editor, The Pulse of Oriental Medicine Columnist, Acupuncture Today The PULSE of Oriental Medicine: Alternative Medicine You Can Understand http://www.pulsemed.org/ The General Public's Guide to Chinese Medicine since 1999... 8 Experts, 100+ Articles, 115,000+ readers.... Our free e-zine BEING WELL keeps you up to date with the latest greatest PULSE articles. Sign up NOW. Send a blank email to: beingwellnewsletter- > Liv qi yu can lead to Liv xue xu. Is this liver qi excess can lead to liver blood deficiency? I don't really understand liver blood deficiency yet, but I've had a few bells go off reading stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 I'm still studying all this Brian - a mini-treatise as it is! But, qi yu can turn to heat/fire (Liver qi yu heat or Liver fire) > xue xu can turn to yin xu (Liver yin xu) Aren't these both characterised by 'heat' - doesn't yin xu = heat generally? > > Then you see Liver fire sxs: sudden tinnitus, sudden deafness, > constipation (a general heat/fire sx), rapid wiry pulse, rough yellow > tongue coating > > with Liv yin xu, you can get Liver yang ascending > > Liv yang ascending can be differentiated from Liver fire because there > are yin xu sxs and signs (s & s). > > There can also be Liver wind (from xue xu, yang ascending, or fire) > > Liver wind sxs: rigid neck, tremor in eyes tongue and hands, inhibited > speech, numbness of limbs, jerking sinews, convulsions, tetany > > Liver wind can be as simple as a calf spasm from xue xu, or as extreme > as a wind-stroke or seizure. The trouble is I see a mixture of these and cannot ask about the rest (not sure if you realise it is a horse I am trying to work out!!) There is irritability, anger and outbursts at it's worst, a feeling of 'excess', slowed bowel movement, abdominal discomfort, hypochondriac distention, and now, just when the rest is beginning to calm down, head jerking spasms an hour after eating in the morning. Just to confuse matters the only TCM herb in the ayuvedic herbal formula that is settling him is Eclipta alba, which nourishes liver yin. > That's just diagnosis. When you have a diagnosis that explains all > the symptoms, then you can move to herbal treatment. Yes, trouble is we always seem to get adverse reactions eventually, then have to backtrack and try and work out why. > > Some say that you can't just start from scratch with single herbs' functions > and expect a formula to work- that you must at least consider 2-3 herb > combos- others believe you must only add to a classical rx because > subtracting > might eliminate the effect of the formula (that there are unmapped synergies > between the herbs in the classical formula that may disappear with the elim > of > one or another herb) > > Personally, I have had the experience that a from-scratch-rx that should've > worked didn't- so I am open to those ideas above... Interesting. My medical herbalist, Michael McIntyre, writes from scratch and I think does it partly intuitively too - but of course I wouldn't know how near his formulas were to classic formulas anyway. He just phoned and is going to re-write me a formula to include something gentle for liver qi stagnation, and we're going to use fresh herbs which I'll decoct and then put through the blender. I think part of the problem may have been the fact we were using concentrates too - I'm told they don't suit horses well, so that's another factor. I'll let you know what he suggests for interest's sake. Many thanks Jackie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 > Here's some more, plus abbreviations you can learn to > make writing about this and communicating between LAc's > easier: > > Liv qi yu = Liver qi stagnation > Liver xue xu = Liver blood deficiency/vacuity > > Liver xue xu sxs (symptoms) are dizziness, insomnia, > profuse dreaming, flowery vision, blurred vision, floaters, inhibited > sinew movement, lusterless nails, scant menstrual flow, etc. > Pale tongue, thin/thready pulse > > Some of those sxs are rather general xue xu sxs... > What tells you the xue xu is in the Liver are more > Liver-specific thangs like it affects the vision/eyes, nails, > sinews. Those are organs/tissues controlled by the Liver. Thanks, Brian, for an excellent summation. People interested particularly in Liver imbalances may want to print and study this. It will lay a firm grounwork for understanding the Liver. Victoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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