Guest guest Posted February 7, 2003 Report Share Posted February 7, 2003 I am a Licensed Acupuncturist currently treating a woman (9 weeks pregnant) for severe morning sickness. She came to me after receiving Acupuncture from a Chiropractor. Her experience was that she got mild relief but the nausea would return with greater intensity shortly after treatment. She also had what she called " mild cramping " in her lower abdomen following Acupuncture treatments from this Chiropractor. Upon questioning her (and by observing the bruising let behind) I figured out that he had utilized points that should not be utilized on a pregnant woman, namely Large Intestine 4 and Spleen 6. He was also needling St12 (Why I have no idea) which can be a risky point when the needle is in the hands of someone with inadequate training. Judging from the bruises on this women , I am comfortable saying that this fellow was not adequately trained. Given her symptoms it seemed to me that her pattern was Liver invading the Spleen. Again based on my questioning of where she had been needled, and the fact that she reported that he was basing his treatment on " some little card he was looking at " it seemed reasonable to assume that her treatment was not based on a TCM diagnosis but simply a " cook book " point recipe. In my state, Chiropractors can stick Acupuncture needles in people with no specific training requirements. The bruising on this woman and the Chiropractor choice of points is certainly evidence that he is not adequately trained. The point I'm trying to make is as follows. If you're going to receive Acupuncture, get it from someone who is able to show you evidence of their training. Ask if they are NCCAOM board certified. I repeat, NCCAOM. If they are not, think twice. If they just tell you they are " certified " , ask who certified them. Just because they have the title " doctor " don't assume they are trained in all medical disciplines. And ... if you're going to preform acupuncture... laws aside... you owe it to your patients to be well trained in what you are doing. The 100 hr " certification course " seems pretty inadequate to me. I direct that last sentence towards all M.D.'s, Naturopaths, Chiropractors, and any other health care practioner who does not have substantial and specific training in Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine When you act as the Chiropractor in this example has acted... you risk two things. First and most important, you risk the health of your patient and in this case her unborn child. Second, you do damage to the Acupuncturists profession. Consider this the next time you decide to " do some acupuncture " . Better still, if you're really interested in performing Acupuncture on your patients, go to an accredited school and really learn Acupuncture and Oriental medical theory. Be well PS The patients morning sickness was under control after one treatment(no vomiting for the first time in 4 weeks) and a follow up treatment the next day resulted in even greater improvement. Ultra sound shows a healthy baby Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 > If you're going to receive Acupuncture, get it from someone who is able to show you evidence of their training. Ask if they are NCCAOM board certified. I repeat, NCCAOM. If they are not, think twice. If they just tell you they are " certified " , ask who certified them. Just because they have the title " doctor " don't assume they are trained in all medical disciplines. And ... if you're going to preform acupuncture... laws aside... you owe it to your patients to be well trained in what you are doing. The 100 hr " certification course " seems pretty inadequate to me. Thanks, Jack, for some very good advice. Folks, not all acupuncturists are equal. Some don't even practice TCM but a " cookbook " style of acupuncture based on Western diagnoses not on TCM imbalances. Sometimes a cookbook approach can work wonders. But other times, it can even hurt the client. If you're starting to learn acupressure or acupuncture and use it, KNOW the contraindications. Especially for pregnant women. Some of these points like Large Intestine 4 can bring on labor. Another problem with cookbook acupressure and acupuncture is that Western diagnoses rarely correspond to specific TCM imblances. For example, what is called asthma in the West can have one or more of several different TCM Roots. What helps one asthmatic may do nothing for a second and even make a third sicker because they each have different TCM imblances that can manifest as asthma. If you've been sick for a while with a chronic condition - especially if you've had the problem for years - I definitely recommend seeking out an acupuncturist who has TCM training and can do the proper TCM diagnostic examinations. When someone has been sick for a while, other things tend to go wrong besides the original problem. Like a row of dominos going down. TCM treatments are formulated to correct all imbalances at once. Or at least not make one worse while treating another. I want to mention another contraindication for pregnancy and nausea. Ginger. It's not one of the strongest herbs that can induce labor, but the risk is there. Particularly with dried ginger. Also, dried ginger has hot thermal energy so you need to be very, very cautious giving it to someone who already is too Hot (pregnant or not). It will cause them to be even hotter. But it works very well with people who are too Cold and nauseous. These people need warming up. Victoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 9, 2003 Report Share Posted February 9, 2003 In a message dated 2/8/03 3:19:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, victoria_dragon writes: > Some of > these points like Large Intestine 4 can bring on labor. > Well I know what we were taught but research show this is not the case. After saying that, with most thinking it is and what has been written in some text, it might be better to avoid it for legal reasons. I believe we spent some time talking about this about a year ago if the chat notes go back that far. Stan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 This is a major problem that will affect the acupuncture community. It's my opinion if patients are to receive acupuncture treatments from those that have been well trained, its the acupuncture profession and associations that need to inform the public thru the media, newpapers, lectures, etc. regarding the differences in acupuncture education and than let the public determine who thay wish to receive treatment from. Unfortunately, most of the public are not informed regarding the acupuncture education. The different profession's can argue who has the right to practice acupuncture, go thru debates and legal issues but it would be most cost effective with better information if the acupuncture community will pull together and educated the public. With the surge in alternative medicine and the different state laws and regulations, the acupuncture professionals may eventually be left out of the health care system because of the money and politics the other professions have ascess to... Sincerely, Brian N Hardy, DC, LAc, CCN Jack Gorfien <panaxj wrote: I am a Licensed Acupuncturist currently treating a woman (9 weeks pregnant) for severe morning sickness. She came to me after receiving Acupuncture from a Chiropractor. Her experience was that she got mild relief but the nausea would return with greater intensity shortly after treatment. She also had what she called " mild cramping " in her lower abdomen following Acupuncture treatments from this Chiropractor. Upon questioning her (and by observing the bruising let behind) I figured out that he had utilized points that should not be utilized on a pregnant woman, namely Large Intestine 4 and Spleen 6. He was also needling St12 (Why I have no idea) which can be a risky point when the needle is in the hands of someone with inadequate training. Judging from the bruises on this women , I am comfortable saying that this fellow was not adequately trained. Given her symptoms it seemed to me that her pattern was Liver invading the Spleen. Again based on my questioning of where she had been needled, and the fact that she reported that he was basing his treatment on " some little card he was looking at " it seemed reasonable to assume that her treatment was not based on a TCM diagnosis but simply a " cook book " point recipe. In my state, Chiropractors can stick Acupuncture needles in people with no specific training requirements. The bruising on this woman and the Chiropractor choice of points is certainly evidence that he is not adequately trained. The point I'm trying to make is as follows. If you're going to receive Acupuncture, get it from someone who is able to show you evidence of their training. Ask if they are NCCAOM board certified. I repeat, NCCAOM. If they are not, think twice. If they just tell you they are " certified " , ask who certified them. Just because they have the title " doctor " don't assume they are trained in all medical disciplines. And ... if you're going to preform acupuncture... laws aside... you owe it to your patients to be well trained in what you are doing. The 100 hr " certification course " seems pretty inadequate to me. I direct that last sentence towards all M.D.'s, Naturopaths, Chiropractors, and any other health care practioner who does not have substantial and specific training in Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine When you act as the Chiropractor in this example has acted... you risk two things. First and most important, you risk the health of your patient and in this case her unborn child. Second, you do damage to the Acupuncturists profession. Consider this the next time you decide to " do some acupuncture " . Better still, if you're really interested in performing Acupuncture on your patients, go to an accredited school and really learn Acupuncture and Oriental medical theory. Be well PS The patients morning sickness was under control after one treatment(no vomiting for the first time in 4 weeks) and a follow up treatment the next day resulted in even greater improvement. Ultra sound shows a healthy baby Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 I am new to this list... I am a student of TCM and I'm curious... This discussion about incorrect practise of acupuncture seems to me to be part of a wider problem... I have always been taught that acupuncture is just one method of treatment along with Tui Na, Qi gong and herbalism. Therefore, in order to be a TCM doctor, you must study all disciplines... Yet from reading some of the posts in the two weeks I've been on the list, it seems there are a lot of people who purely practise acupuncture... Cheers, ojc ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Owen J Connolly Tel:+353-1-4788044 http://www.networkarchitects.ie Fax:+353-1-4788089 " The code ain't over til the fat programmer types ':wq!' .......... " ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.