Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 Tay. What is the point of this email may I ask ? Are you trying to be humerous ? I do not think your sense of fun will make a favourable impression somehow ... It is no joke that people cannot get the meds they need because some bureaucratic * & ^%$? decides what is good and what is not good for them. Qinghaosu ? Don't you think we know the difference between qinghao and qinghaosu ? We are in the business of field testing these products, not sitting in some ivory tower with out finger .. oh forget it. FYI qinghaosu is NOT synthesized. Qinghaosu is simply artemisinin which is a natural product of the herb. May I suggest, Tay you get your facts right before you try to sound too clever :-\ Sammy. 1: Med Trop (Mars) 1998;58(3 Suppl):9-12 How Chinese scientists discovered qinghaosu (artemisinin) and developed its derivatives? What are the future perspectives? Li Y, Wu YL. Shanghai Institute of Materia Medica, Chinese Academy of Sciences, China. yli Since the middle of this century and especially since the 1960s and 1970s. Chinese scientists have put considerable effort and resources into the search for new antimalarial compounds extracted from Chinese traditional herbs. Archaeological findings indicate that qinghao (Artemisia annua L.) has been used as a traditional remedy in China for over two thousand years. Its antimalarial principle was finally isolated in 1971 and named artemisinin or qinghaosu (meaning the principle of qinghao in Chinese). Its rapid action, low toxicity and powerful effect against falciparum malaria made it a favored subject for research. In 1976, the unique structure of the molecule, characterized by an endoperoxide and an alternative O-C-O-C segment, was identified. The specific lactone reduction discovered during the determination of the structure opened the way for the synthesis of qinghaosu derivatives, and thereafter a series of more active and more oil- or water-soluble derivatives was developed. Subsequent studies of the structure/activity relationship led to the discovery of dihydroartemisinin, artemether and artesunate. Now qinghaosu and these three derivatives are being used around the world as effective new antimalarial drugs in the fight against falciparum malaria, including multi-drug-resistant Plasmodium falciparum. At the present time new qinghaosu analogues or derivatives are being developed and studies of their structure/activity relationships, their antimalarial mechanisms, their interaction with ferrous ions and the DNA damage associated with these processes are being actively pursued. In addition, recent studies also indicate that some qinghaosu derivatives have other bioactivities, including antiparasitic (against Schistosoma japonicum, Toxoplasma gondii and so on) and anticancer activities. Research into qinghaosu and its derivatives has already produced and will no doubt continue to produce results of the utmost importance in the fight against malaria and other diseases. Publication Types: Review Review, Tutorial PMID: 10212890 tayfx <aajohansen [aajohansen] 28 January 2003 22:17 Chinese Traditional Medicine [Chinese Traditional Medicine] qinghao and qinghaosu Hi, >> I had to stop artemisinin because of import problems in Germany. >If you can get hold of the seeds, why not grow it? he he...sorry patient, we have to wait till next year for your herbals (just kidding...umm...but one of my goals is to let patients die at least with a smile on their face) please note that QingHaoSu (artemisinin), a chemical component that is extracted/synthesized from the herb is different from the herb QingHao. - Several kinds of cancer are known to TCM and its epidemiology and dangers have been described long time ago. I now wonder why we stare at the blank piece of paper containing just some words (artemisinin f.e.) and we are so hypnotized that we forget to undust the piles of books (that describe in detail how to treat which cancer in what stage). But also in China the increase in tumor-book-publishing was just a recent development. We have to wait some more years, but legions of translators are 'grown' in china. Greetings Tay. Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 > he he...sorry patient, we have to wait till next year for your > herbals (just kidding...umm...but one of my goals is to let patients > die at least with a smile on their face) > I catch your joke but I'm quite serious about my suggestion to grow sweet annie. Though its snowing in Chicago today, my mail man delivered yet another seed catalog. Just as a major part of weaving is acquiring the materials to weave with and setting the materials up on one's loom so too I view the process of putting herbs into one's life (as someone lamented earlier on this list about some TCM practicioners giving up on suggesting people brew teas versus just eating a pill). Besides, Peter already shared with us that he's using Dr. Budwig's diet, a plan claimed to have great success dealing with cancer and many of life's other not too enjoyable adventures. Perhaps its quark and flax seed oil will sustain him until a crop of sweet annie is ready to share. But about herbal products in Germany, I vaguely recall at another lecture the herbalist Susun Weed mentioning that she'd been to Germany give " herb walks " . She said since its so difficult to purchase some herbs people are trying to learn more about them to wild craft and grow them. This stikes me as more to the spirit of Daoism, to live as a part of nature. No? I am amused that the politicians of Germany seem to be tricked into setting up an agenda desired perhaps by the pharmaceutical companies but dreammed up by the herbs themselves (for much different reasons;-). Penel going back to her web searching for good stained glass, a hobby she took up to understand the Element of winter better when she learned glass is a liquid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Sammy. >What is the point of this email may I ask ? My poem at the end of my post described my frustration that there is still no translation of 'Traditional Chinese Tumorology' as part of 'Diseases in the Outer {Flesh and Skin}'. Chinese biotechnology started to block the sight to its own roots. >Are you trying to be humerous ? You mean 'humerus'? Bony? ;-) >I do not think your sense of fun will make a favourable impression somehow Sammy, get some XiaoYaoWan. I didnt deserve this attack of yours. Next time please flame me privately. Do a 'Search Archive' tayfx if you want an impression. >Don't you think we know the difference between qinghao and qinghaosu ? I stumbled on the indifferent use of these two words in previous articles and wanted to put it clear. >FYI qinghaosu is NOT synthesized. >Tay you get your facts right OK, some citations from university articles: " Qinghaosu (artemisinin) was isolated by Chinese scientists from Artemisia annua L. in 1972. It can be synthesized but is easier and more economical to extract from the plant. " While artemisinin can be synthesized, the synthetic compound is unlikely to be economically competitive with the naturally produced compound. " Zhou Weishan, Xu Xingxiang. Total synthesis of the antimalarial sesquiterpene peroxide Qinghaosu and Yingzhaosu A. Acc Chem Res, 1994, 27: 211?216 " sources and more facts at google: qinghaosu synthesized I state again: ....QingHaoSu (artemisinin), a chemical component that is extracted/synthesized from the herb ... :-) @P.Fackelmann: Bin ich da vielleicht etwas zu pingelig? > May I suggest, Tay you get your facts right before you try to sound too > clever :-\ > Sammy. I heard this sentence before when I treated AIDS people in 1990. Greetings from Germany, Tay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 Sammy. >What is the point of this email may I ask ? My poem at the end of my post described my frustration that there is still no translation of 'Traditional Chinese Tumorology' as part of 'Diseases in the Outer {Flesh and Skin}'. ** Why didn't you say so instead of talking in riddles ? This is not Poet's Corner - I thought we were here to share our knowledge not try to score points over one another. You just got me on my back foot and I reacted to what I saw was superciliousness. Chinese biotechnology started to block the sight to its own roots. >Are you trying to be humerous ? You mean 'humerus'? Bony? ;-) ** Maybe something is being 'lost in the translation' eh, because I do not find this funny either. >I do not think your sense of fun will make a favourable impression somehow Sammy, get some XiaoYaoWan. I didnt deserve this attack of yours. ** XiaoYaoWan ? You need a good dose of humility whoever you are. In the Classic of the Yellow Emporer there is a 'Treatise on the Classification of People' maybe you should start with a translation of that .. " Those belonging to lesser yin covet petty gains and are preoccupied with taking advantage of others. " Next time please flame me privately. ** There won't be a next time. I am done with you. Full stop. Do a 'Search Archive' tayfx if you want an impression. ** It returns > Did you mean to search for: TAX ? so I gues that just about wraps it up 'tayfx' Sammy. tayfx <aajohansen [aajohansen] 29 January 2003 03:53 Chinese Traditional Medicine [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: qinghao and qinghaosu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2003 Report Share Posted January 29, 2003 tayfx, Teresa Tom or Aajo Hansen - may I set something clear? I'm not your patient. I know many medical jokes; yours is the most tasteless so far. I hope nobody wants to top it. Here are people with serious diseases, some are really desperate. Do you think, sottises like yours will help them? About synthesizing There are products on the market mechanically extracted from plants (from Swiss and South African producers) as an attempt to treat malaria in poor countries at lower cost. Their content of pure artemisinin is low but it may be enough for malaria. It's not enough for cancer and the price per mg of pure A is much higher. Here we touch the matter of holistic Chinese medicine but it's difficult to get data particularly on prostate cancer as this hasn't been an item in Asia for centuries. Unfortunately this is changing now. Last point- Why do you write in German? This group's language is English. I translate your question: >@P.Fackelmann: Am I nitpicking? This is not a matter of nitpicking but of netiquette, seriousness and ethics. Regards Peter At 23:16 Uhr +0100 28.01.2003, tayfx <aajohansen wrote: >he he...sorry patient, we have to wait till next year for your >herbals (just kidding...umm...but one of my goals is to let patients >die at least with a smile on their face) > > >please note that QingHaoSu (artemisinin), a chemical component that >is extracted/synthesized from the herb is different from the herb >QingHao. At 4:52 Uhr +0100 29.01.2003, tayfx <aajohansen wrote: At 10:25 Uhr +0100 29.01.2003, teresa thom wrote under the subject " Remove " : >some citations from university articles: > " Qinghaosu (artemisinin) was isolated by Chinese scientists from >Artemisia annua L. in 1972. >It can be synthesized but is easier and more economical to extract >from the plant. > " >While artemisinin can be synthesized, the synthetic compound is >unlikely to be economically competitive with the naturally produced >compound. > " >Zhou Weishan, Xu Xingxiang. Total synthesis of the antimalarial >sesquiterpene peroxide Qinghaosu and Yingzhaosu A. Acc Chem Res, >1994, 27: 211?216 > " >sources and more facts at google: qinghaosu synthesized > >I state again: >...QingHaoSu (artemisinin), a chemical component that >is extracted/synthesized from the herb ... :-) > >@P.Fackelmann: Bin ich da vielleicht etwas zu pingelig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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