TCM vs WM -=- RE: Digest number 735

January 26, 2003

> QUESTION:

> One of the problems as I see it is that we do not have a complete

> understanding of TCM and need to ask the experts. Now if these

experts are

> not forthcoming then the cause is lost! In my own experience I

don't get

> much help from my TCM doc. He is happy to prescribe 'pills' and

reluctant to

> prescribe herbal formulations that need cooking because patient

compliance

> is low for the old way.

This is very poor practice. One of the first things one learns is

that how the herbs are prepared can affect their effectiveness. For

example, the TCM herbalist I saw was very careful to inform me that

not only was a tea the most effective delivery method for the herbs I

needed, it was also important that the tea be very warm when I drank

it. He also gave careful instructions about what to prepare the teas

in. (NO aluminum cookware.)

As I began to learn more and observe more, I discovered that cayenne

is most effective for me when I take it with food. For some people,

it is most effective when taken in a tea.

> On the other hand, even if I show enthusiasm for

> taking a herbal mix that needs cooking, he will be reluctant to

write down

> the names of the herbs used.

He is supposed to tell you which herbs are used and/or the name of

the formula.

> I don't think he keeps a record anywhere - is

> this a skill or a practice that is dying out because of the

availability of

> pills ?

He is supposed to be keeping records. The herbalist I saw not only

kept records, he made sure I had a list of the ingredients in the

various formulas I was on. (I was in such bad shape that I required

several formulas for different things.) He mixed his own capsules.

He also gathered some of the herbs he used. The ingredients in the

capsules he made up was printed on the side of the bottle.

> Basically, I need to know if I am being considered 'pushy'

or 'rude' from an

> oriental point of view by asking my TCM doc for a list of herbs

used in a

> formulation ?

You definitely are not being pushy or rude. You have a right to this

information. A lot of TCM healers are very pleased when clients ask

questions and want to know more. The one you're seeing is not this

way.

> Do I need to reassure the TCM doc that I need the names for

> record purposes in case I have to ask him to make up the same

concoction

> again, or will this 'go against the grain' in the context of a TCM

doc who

> prescribes according to an ever changing symptom pattern within the

> patient's syndrome ?

Yes, because TCM formulas constantly are being changed based on the

changing clinical pattern, and the healer wouldn't necessarily

prescribe the same combination again. But, clients need the

information in case there is something the person is allergic to

(doesn't happen very often, but it could), and if there is something

the client has had problems with in the past. Also, some clients want

to learn. Also, not sharing information with the client goes against

the TCM doctrine of how important the client is in the healing

process.

BTW, regarding the link between the Lungs and the Large Intestine:

One way to release Heat from the Lungs is to purge the Large

Intestine.

Victoria

January 26, 2003

Thanks Victoria and Al. The feedback you provide gives me a little more

confidence in dealing with a complicated problem !

It may be that my TCM doc had a negative experience in the context of

supplying information to patients, or perhaps lacks confidence using a

language they are not too familiar with (English), or maybe just laziness is

creeping in. I have to work on finding out what the case is and act

accordingly only after I am quite sure of the circumstances. I wouldn't want

to be too hasty a judge.

In the mean time I am happy to report that the 'concoctions' are having some

effect and my symptoms are ameliorated to some extent !

Cheers,

Sammy.

victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon

[victoria_dragon]

26 January 2003 04:31

Chinese Traditional Medicine

TCM vs WM -=- RE: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Digest number 735

> QUESTION:

> One of the problems as I see it is that we do not have a complete

> understanding of TCM and need to ask the experts. Now if these

experts are

> not forthcoming then the cause is lost! In my own experience I

don't get

> much help from my TCM doc. He is happy to prescribe 'pills' and

reluctant to

> prescribe herbal formulations that need cooking because patient

compliance

> is low for the old way.

This is very poor practice. One of the first things one learns is

that how the herbs are prepared can affect their effectiveness. For

example, the TCM herbalist I saw was very careful to inform me that

not only was a tea the most effective delivery method for the herbs I

needed, it was also important that the tea be very warm when I drank

it. He also gave careful instructions about what to prepare the teas

in. (NO aluminum cookware.)

As I began to learn more and observe more, I discovered that cayenne

is most effective for me when I take it with food. For some people,

it is most effective when taken in a tea.

> On the other hand, even if I show enthusiasm for

> taking a herbal mix that needs cooking, he will be reluctant to

write down

> the names of the herbs used.

He is supposed to tell you which herbs are used and/or the name of

the formula.

> I don't think he keeps a record anywhere - is

> this a skill or a practice that is dying out because of the

availability of

> pills ?

He is supposed to be keeping records. The herbalist I saw not only

kept records, he made sure I had a list of the ingredients in the

various formulas I was on. (I was in such bad shape that I required

several formulas for different things.) He mixed his own capsules.

He also gathered some of the herbs he used. The ingredients in the

capsules he made up was printed on the side of the bottle.

> Basically, I need to know if I am being considered 'pushy'

or 'rude' from an

> oriental point of view by asking my TCM doc for a list of herbs

used in a

> formulation ?

You definitely are not being pushy or rude. You have a right to this

information. A lot of TCM healers are very pleased when clients ask

questions and want to know more. The one you're seeing is not this

way.

> Do I need to reassure the TCM doc that I need the names for

> record purposes in case I have to ask him to make up the same

concoction

> again, or will this 'go against the grain' in the context of a TCM

doc who

> prescribes according to an ever changing symptom pattern within the

> patient's syndrome ?

Yes, because TCM formulas constantly are being changed based on the

changing clinical pattern, and the healer wouldn't necessarily

prescribe the same combination again. But, clients need the

information in case there is something the person is allergic to

(doesn't happen very often, but it could), and if there is something

the client has had problems with in the past. Also, some clients want

to learn. Also, not sharing information with the client goes against

the TCM doctrine of how important the client is in the healing

process.

BTW, regarding the link between the Lungs and the Large Intestine:

One way to release Heat from the Lungs is to purge the Large

Intestine.

Victoria

Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine

Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner

Shortcut URL to this page:

/community/Chinese Traditional Medicine

January 27, 2003

Al Stone <alstone wrote:

ga.bates wrote:

> Basically, I need to know if I am being considered 'pushy' or 'rude' from an

> oriental point of view by asking my TCM doc for a list of herbs used in a

> formulation ?

From the Oriental view, it may look rude, but I don't think that counts

in the West. There was a period (just ending, really) in which a

patient could only question a doctor through the avenue of the " second

opinion " . Now, we're doing more questioning.

> Do I need to reassure the TCM doc that I need the names for

> record purposes in case I have to ask him to make up the same concoction

> again, or will this 'go against the grain' in the context of a TCM doc who

> prescribes according to an ever changing symptom pattern within the

> patient's syndrome ?

He or she should be writing down what herb formulas h/she is giving you

in your file. But you do have legal access to that file, too. So

there's nothing wrong with you asking for a list of ingredients. Plenty

of my patients ask, and I'm happy to provide them this info. The only

problem that arises with this is some practitioners want to limit your

access to herbs to their own sales, in which case, they'll take a 2

dollar bottle of herb pills, put them into an unmarked plastic bag and

sell it to you for $20. Not knowing what they're called prevents you

from purchasing them elsewhere. That ain't cool, but it does come up.

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

January 27, 2003

I think the problem has been poor communication on both sides. Glad I asked

you guys before I made a fool of myself ! Sammy.

Hoang Ho [twomtns2002]

27 January 2003 20:19

Chinese Traditional Medicine

Re: TCM vs WM -=- RE: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Digest number 735

Al Stone <alstone wrote:

ga.bates wrote:

> Basically, I need to know if I am being considered 'pushy' or 'rude' from

an