Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 before anyone uses the word " fiasco " and tcm in the same tale... check out the stats on staph infections and hospital visits...let me know what you find... the folks with infections are due refund and perhaps re-treatment with clean needles for free...that is fair and traditional... if the practitioner had made themselves subject to regulation/ license then legal response is in order. Regulation is a good way to provide jobs to the children and friends of present bureaucrats.. no one is forcing anyone to use any alternative treatments- as far as I know- and I am sure that far more people using western medicine in the Americas die each year than those who are use acupuncture. Stay clear on these points and you'll find there is very little to discuss. If your arm has been torn off by a bear, you might wish to try a surgeon.. if your relatively healthy and understand that your well being is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY and you wish to remain healthy... you might get massage & acupressure, do chi kung/yoga drink lots of clean water... eat non-bioengineered food from a reliable source... choose from low on the food chain... do the above regularly and see your Western & Chinese doctors when you need them... engage spirit daily...suggest this to anyone who has a human body..OK..? (one might also get boils on one's butt from sitting in an office for 30 years...note the absurdity of pulling your bosses business license in this situation) --- Chinese Traditional Medicine wrote: > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: > Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > ------ > > There are 3 messages in this issue. > > Topics in this digest: > > 1. Re: Contaminated needles ? > Al Stone > <alstone > 2. Re: Contaminated needles ? > " Junya Ho " <junya.ho > 3. Re: Contaminated needles ? > Al Stone > <alstone > > > ______________________ > ______________________ > > Message: 1 > Wed, 08 Jan 2003 11:11:36 -0800 > Al Stone <alstone > Re: Contaminated needles ? > > One way to handle this may be to have the regulatory > agency for Ontario > put her licensure on probation or revoke it. > > In California we have some rather specific rules in > regards to needle > sterilization, should one chose to use an autoclave, > it must be actually > inspected by the government (as I recall). But its > sort of a moot point > around here because nobody uses reusable needles, > the disposible needles > are cheap and easy to use. > > I would come down on her legally, support the > actions that tell people > that when an acupuncturist is neglegant, they lose > their license. > > Well, that's one of of working with it. The other > half would be to show > the results of a survey of Toronto acupuncturists > demonstrating how 99% > of them use disposable needles. (That is my > assumption, probably > accurate.) Honestly, the only people who use > disposables here are those > in the Chinese community that do not work with > non-chinese speaking > people, and probably only other recent immigrants. > > -al. > > Hugo Ramiro wrote: > > > > Hi all. Maybe some of you have heard of the > fiasco in > > Toronto (Canada) and area regarding a lady who was > re- > > using unsterilised needles and apparently caused > > several infections...something like 20 people at > > least. The infection was characterised by white > heads > > developing at needled sites and boils forming > > eventually. Nothing fatal, apparently, but > certainly > > very inconvenient and painful. Western medicine > " came > > to the rescue " of course, and we're beginning to > deal > > with the backlash now. > > > > Anyone have thoughts on this? And specifically > anyone > > have solid info on the potential dangers of > > acupuncture - studies personal experiences, etc? > The > > bette we all understand exactly the dangers, the > less > > chance of being caught unprepared and the better > we > > can prepare for and deal with all eventualities. > Even > > the sort of situation where we hesitate when > answering > > a question regarding safety or sterility will not > only > > cost us patients, but creat a bad reputation. I > wish > > to compile this information and make it available > to > > the list and any practitioner who wants it. The > last > > thing I want is to be directed by paranoia and > > senseless fear or so-called " caution " . But in > order > > for me to avoid thoe things, I need to be informed > up > > to my eyeballs. > > > > Ok, who has information?? Cough it up! > > > > Bye for now, > > Hugo > > > > > > > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > > http://uk.my. > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Subscribe: > Chinese Traditional Medicine- > > Un: > Chinese Traditional Medicine- > > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Chinese Traditional Medicine , brian bullock <reiki_now> wrote: > Regulation is a good way to provide jobs to the > children and friends of present bureaucrats.. no one > is forcing anyone to use any alternative treatments- > as far as I know- and I am sure that far more people > using western medicine in the Americas die each year > than those who are use acupuncture. Personally, I believe in wise regulation AND enforcement. There are advantages in terms of public trust. One factor that fueled the growth of alternataive medicine in Arizona was the fact that Arizona BOMEX (which oversees M.D.s) was not enforcing standards or protecting the public adequately from problem doctors. In addition to seeing a M.D. in AZ being rather like gambling, the lack of any real oversight of M.D.s created an arrogance problem. Good M.D.s finally started calling for better regulation because they were being regarded with the same distrust as problem doctors. And, the public was turning away from regular medicine in droves in part because of the lack of any real oversight and the arrogance of many doctors. As far as no one is forced to use alternative medicine, for that matter no one forces anyone to use any medicine. But, pain, suffering, and possible death if one does not get some form of adequate treatment are much stronger forcers than an individual can be. I personally believe that consumers have a right to expect certain minimum standards whatever they are buying, be it health care, clothes, appliances, food, cars, etc. There can be minimum standards and still leave lots of leeway for healers coming up with creative solutions that work. Establishing and fullfilling standards also can lead to a lot of financial gain. For example, the poultry industry in North Carolina used to be very carefully policed with some very good standards that were enforced. As a result, NC chicken farmers won a lot of very lucrative contracts based in large part on the safety history of the industry in that state and those standards. It was one of the few states that produced eggs that I would have felt comfortable consuming one raw. (This is an old remedy for debility.) As far as hospitals and clinics reusing disposible equipment like IV tubes, catherer tubes, etc. and more people dying from sloppiness and greed from Western establishment medicine than from alternative medicine, this argument does not cut it. We're better than that. And, it is starting to catch up with them in terms of public trust and respect. I don't want to see alternative healers looked down upon as increasing numbers of Americans now look down upon establishment medicine doctors and owners. Let give the public a true alternative, a better way, instead of just a choice between different schools of medicine, neither one of which respects or cares about patients. Or even takes seriously, at least do no harm. I realize that there are still good MDs, nurses, etc. out there who are just as ethical and caring as they can be. The problem is, that enforcement has been so lax in their professions that they are being hurt by the fallout. Without good regulation and enforcement of standards, there are few ways for the public to know that these are good and consciencious healers in establishment medicine. Sterilization standards and enforcement are good, sound, humantarian standards. Also, good business sense. Victoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2003 Report Share Posted January 11, 2003 Here is an idea. Perhaps we can form a group in the future that not only contacts and moniters accutreatment doctors. (we are probably already doing that) but also a fund that can be used to train doctors and help with scholarship. Accutreatment with needles or without, is becoming more accepted as time goes by. We should emphasized checkups, this is the best way for accutreatment to work, by use of early detection diagnosis and treatment. Pulses are the best tool for diagnosis, along with the test points at the extremities. Western medicine can help with diagnosis. It is too bad that when western medicine says there is only drugs or no cure, that more folks don't at least try accutreatment. Accutreatment may gain strides in the diagnosis area by having clinics or being the old American medical way of HOUSECALLS. That is what the people miss most I think. " victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon " <victoria_dragon wrote:Chinese Traditional Medicine , brian bullock <reiki_now> wrote: > Regulation is a good way to provide jobs to the > children and friends of present bureaucrats.. no one > is forcing anyone to use any alternative treatments- > as far as I know- and I am sure that far more people > using western medicine in the Americas die each year > than those who are use acupuncture. Personally, I believe in wise regulation AND enforcement. There are advantages in terms of public trust. One factor that fueled the growth of alternataive medicine in Arizona was the fact that Arizona BOMEX (which oversees M.D.s) was not enforcing standards or protecting the public adequately from problem doctors. In addition to seeing a M.D. in AZ being rather like gambling, the lack of any real oversight of M.D.s created an arrogance problem. Good M.D.s finally started calling for better regulation because they were being regarded with the same distrust as problem doctors. And, the public was turning away from regular medicine in droves in part because of the lack of any real oversight and the arrogance of many doctors. As far as no one is forced to use alternative medicine, for that matter no one forces anyone to use any medicine. But, pain, suffering, and possible death if one does not get some form of adequate treatment are much stronger forcers than an individual can be. I personally believe that consumers have a right to expect certain minimum standards whatever they are buying, be it health care, clothes, appliances, food, cars, etc. There can be minimum standards and still leave lots of leeway for healers coming up with creative solutions that work. Establishing and fullfilling standards also can lead to a lot of financial gain. For example, the poultry industry in North Carolina used to be very carefully policed with some very good standards that were enforced. As a result, NC chicken farmers won a lot of very lucrative contracts based in large part on the safety history of the industry in that state and those standards. It was one of the few states that produced eggs that I would have felt comfortable consuming one raw. (This is an old remedy for debility.) As far as hospitals and clinics reusing disposible equipment like IV tubes, catherer tubes, etc. and more people dying from sloppiness and greed from Western establishment medicine than from alternative medicine, this argument does not cut it. We're better than that. And, it is starting to catch up with them in terms of public trust and respect. I don't want to see alternative healers looked down upon as increasing numbers of Americans now look down upon establishment medicine doctors and owners. Let give the public a true alternative, a better way, instead of just a choice between different schools of medicine, neither one of which respects or cares about patients. Or even takes seriously, at least do no harm. I realize that there are still good MDs, nurses, etc. out there who are just as ethical and caring as they can be. The problem is, that enforcement has been so lax in their professions that they are being hurt by the fallout. Without good regulation and enforcement of standards, there are few ways for the public to know that these are good and consciencious healers in establishment medicine. Sterilization standards and enforcement are good, sound, humantarian standards. Also, good business sense. Victoria Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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