Guest guest Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Hi all. Maybe some of you have heard of the fiasco in Toronto (Canada) and area regarding a lady who was re- using unsterilised needles and apparently caused several infections...something like 20 people at least. The infection was characterised by white heads developing at needled sites and boils forming eventually. Nothing fatal, apparently, but certainly very inconvenient and painful. Western medicine " came to the rescue " of course, and we're beginning to deal with the backlash now. Anyone have thoughts on this? And specifically anyone have solid info on the potential dangers of acupuncture - studies personal experiences, etc? The bette we all understand exactly the dangers, the less chance of being caught unprepared and the better we can prepare for and deal with all eventualities. Even the sort of situation where we hesitate when answering a question regarding safety or sterility will not only cost us patients, but creat a bad reputation. I wish to compile this information and make it available to the list and any practitioner who wants it. The last thing I want is to be directed by paranoia and senseless fear or so-called " caution " . But in order for me to avoid thoe things, I need to be informed up to my eyeballs. Ok, who has information?? Cough it up! Bye for now, Hugo Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 Dear Hugo, There have been some studies done in England and other places (for sure) about complications and side effects of needling. go to British Medical Journal - BMJ. If you can not find it I will try. However Canada seams very advance, is it B.C. that has college of Chinese medicine a regulatory body? They ought to have relevant information. Also, if that person used the needles between patients without sterilising I think it can be called poor practice indeed. In a industrialised country I would imagine that one time disposable needles should not be a problem. When I was in Vietnam (this may have changed) they had a little metal box with cotton (I think) and the patients where given there box. Then they would sterilise the needles after x amount of time for use with another patient but only after heavy duty sterilisation. In Guatemala and no problem has been detected thus for patients are given there needles and then use them, then dispose of them hence only the same person use the needles. This is because it is expensive relatively speaking, I am trying to reach the communities out side Guatemala city at least once a week in the near future and there is very few that actually can pay for treatment so I will have to use the same needles for the same person, well guarded in a plastic tube. But in a country like Canada I am surprise to hear someone re-use the needles with out sterilising it. If you ask me that person should be reprimanded for dangerous practice and bad practice too. However I have once had a person whom turn out to have metal allergy and she reacted drastically, the hospital was aware of this possible reaction and although I did inquire she did not mention this nor was there any such details in her journal with the western doctor. It was a crack-cocaine patient (this was back in UK). The person was very honest and did not make any negative complaints once we understood why the reaction did occur. She benefited from healing from another practitioner... Marco - Hugo Ramiro Chinese Traditional Medicine Tuesday, January 07, 2003 10:18 PM [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Contaminated needles ? Hi all. Maybe some of you have heard of the fiasco in Toronto (Canada) and area regarding a lady who was re- using unsterilised needles and apparently caused several infections...something like 20 people at least. The infection was characterised by white heads developing at needled sites and boils forming eventually. Nothing fatal, apparently, but certainly very inconvenient and painful. Western medicine " came to the rescue " of course, and we're beginning to deal with the backlash now. Anyone have thoughts on this? And specifically anyone have solid info on the potential dangers of acupuncture - studies personal experiences, etc? The bette we all understand exactly the dangers, the less chance of being caught unprepared and the better we can prepare for and deal with all eventualities. Even the sort of situation where we hesitate when answering a question regarding safety or sterility will not only cost us patients, but creat a bad reputation. I wish to compile this information and make it available to the list and any practitioner who wants it. The last thing I want is to be directed by paranoia and senseless fear or so-called " caution " . But in order for me to avoid thoe things, I need to be informed up to my eyeballs. Ok, who has information?? Cough it up! Bye for now, Hugo Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 One way to handle this may be to have the regulatory agency for Ontario put her licensure on probation or revoke it. In California we have some rather specific rules in regards to needle sterilization, should one chose to use an autoclave, it must be actually inspected by the government (as I recall). But its sort of a moot point around here because nobody uses reusable needles, the disposible needles are cheap and easy to use. I would come down on her legally, support the actions that tell people that when an acupuncturist is neglegant, they lose their license. Well, that's one of of working with it. The other half would be to show the results of a survey of Toronto acupuncturists demonstrating how 99% of them use disposable needles. (That is my assumption, probably accurate.) Honestly, the only people who use disposables here are those in the Chinese community that do not work with non-chinese speaking people, and probably only other recent immigrants. -al. Hugo Ramiro wrote: > > Hi all. Maybe some of you have heard of the fiasco in > Toronto (Canada) and area regarding a lady who was re- > using unsterilised needles and apparently caused > several infections...something like 20 people at > least. The infection was characterised by white heads > developing at needled sites and boils forming > eventually. Nothing fatal, apparently, but certainly > very inconvenient and painful. Western medicine " came > to the rescue " of course, and we're beginning to deal > with the backlash now. > > Anyone have thoughts on this? And specifically anyone > have solid info on the potential dangers of > acupuncture - studies personal experiences, etc? The > bette we all understand exactly the dangers, the less > chance of being caught unprepared and the better we > can prepare for and deal with all eventualities. Even > the sort of situation where we hesitate when answering > a question regarding safety or sterility will not only > cost us patients, but creat a bad reputation. I wish > to compile this information and make it available to > the list and any practitioner who wants it. The last > thing I want is to be directed by paranoia and > senseless fear or so-called " caution " . But in order > for me to avoid thoe things, I need to be informed up > to my eyeballs. > > Ok, who has information?? Cough it up! > > Bye for now, > Hugo > > > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my. > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 As far as I know, there is no regulatory body for acupuncturists in Ontario. I believe that TCM/acupuncture is regulated in only 3 provinces. In Ontario, if you take a weekend course in acupuncture, you can claim to be an acupuncturist. - " Al Stone " <alstone <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Wednesday, January 08, 2003 2:11 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Contaminated needles ? > One way to handle this may be to have the regulatory agency for Ontario > put her licensure on probation or revoke it. > > In California we have some rather specific rules in regards to needle > sterilization, should one chose to use an autoclave, it must be actually > inspected by the government (as I recall). But its sort of a moot point > around here because nobody uses reusable needles, the disposible needles > are cheap and easy to use. > > I would come down on her legally, support the actions that tell people > that when an acupuncturist is neglegant, they lose their license. > > Well, that's one of of working with it. The other half would be to show > the results of a survey of Toronto acupuncturists demonstrating how 99% > of them use disposable needles. (That is my assumption, probably > accurate.) Honestly, the only people who use disposables here are those > in the Chinese community that do not work with non-chinese speaking > people, and probably only other recent immigrants. > > -al. > > Hugo Ramiro wrote: > > > > Hi all. Maybe some of you have heard of the fiasco in > > Toronto (Canada) and area regarding a lady who was re- > > using unsterilised needles and apparently caused > > several infections...something like 20 people at > > least. The infection was characterised by white heads > > developing at needled sites and boils forming > > eventually. Nothing fatal, apparently, but certainly > > very inconvenient and painful. Western medicine " came > > to the rescue " of course, and we're beginning to deal > > with the backlash now. > > > > Anyone have thoughts on this? And specifically anyone > > have solid info on the potential dangers of > > acupuncture - studies personal experiences, etc? The > > bette we all understand exactly the dangers, the less > > chance of being caught unprepared and the better we > > can prepare for and deal with all eventualities. Even > > the sort of situation where we hesitate when answering > > a question regarding safety or sterility will not only > > cost us patients, but creat a bad reputation. I wish > > to compile this information and make it available to > > the list and any practitioner who wants it. The last > > thing I want is to be directed by paranoia and > > senseless fear or so-called " caution " . But in order > > for me to avoid thoe things, I need to be informed up > > to my eyeballs. > > > > Ok, who has information?? Cough it up! > > > > Bye for now, > > Hugo > > > > > > > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > > http://uk.my. > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 8, 2003 Report Share Posted January 8, 2003 The HPRAC would likely be interested in what has happened. Acupuncture is not yet regulated, but this organization, the Health Professions Regulatory Advisory Council is looking at changing this. Hugo, you want to contact them at: http://www.hprac.org/english/contact.asp Junya Ho wrote: > > As far as I know, there is no regulatory body for acupuncturists in Ontario. > I believe that TCM/acupuncture is regulated in only 3 provinces. In Ontario, > if you take a weekend course in acupuncture, you can claim to be an > acupuncturist. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 9, 2003 Report Share Posted January 9, 2003 Chinese Traditional Medicine , Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > In California we have some rather specific rules in regards to needle > sterilization, should one chose to use an autoclave, it must be actually > inspected by the government (as I recall). But its sort of a moot point > around here because nobody uses reusable needles, the disposible needles > are cheap and easy to use. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there another advantage to using sterilized needles besides cleanliness? They are sharper. When I used to need magnesium and B12 injections, I ran out of syringes and could not get to the drug store to get new ones for a few days. I reused a disposable needle which I sterilized as best as I could. By the 3rd use, that thing had gotten dull and was not going in very smoothly. Victoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2003 Report Share Posted January 11, 2003 anyone have solid info on the potential dangers of > acupuncture - studies personal experiences, etc? ...> > Ok, who has information?? Cough it up! > > Bye for now, > Hugo Hi Hugo, I performed a journal search on the " side effects " of acupuncture in 1996, to be better informed about this amazing technology before starting my official studies in TCM. The few adversities that were reported seemed to be pretty much obsolete in Australia at the time, but may be relevant elsewhere in the world. These were from memory: 1. cross-infection of AIDS/ hepatitis due to the reuse of unsterilised needles - this issue was addressed decades ago in Australia with the government enforcing sterilisation of all equipment used in invasive procedures. More recently, the saturation of the market with inexpensive, high-quality, single-use, disposable needles, which are used by almost all practitioners, has minimised (if not eliminated) any risk of cross-infection. 2. pneumothorax - this had been cited a couple of times, although I have a very strong suspicion that the practitioners involved (regardless of their professional background)must of trained in " weekend acupuncture courses " , as with all the practitioners that I know, all of which have had good training, it has been stressed over, over to us for years to take particular caution with the depth and angle of needling over the lung area. 3. needle breakage and impactation - this was due to the use of low quality acupuncture needles, and in some cases has required surgery for removal! - all acupuncture needles in Australia need to pass certain standards before they are able to be imported, and I think even the manufacturing procedures overseas are inspected as part of this process! However I think that the possibility of this happening should be noted by all practitioners, so that only high-quality needles are used in their practice. More recently, I read a media article about the DANGER of being in the blissful state that often follows acupuncture treatment and driving!! Hope this helps, Chrsitine Guirguis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 11, 2003 Report Share Posted January 11, 2003 Thank you to everyone who has participated in this thread, I'll reply with some new info of my own soon, and get back to some of you specifically as well. > Hope this helps, > Chrsitine Guirguis It does, thanks. Hugo Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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