Guest guest Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Hi everyone- For two months I've been seeing a Chinese MD for interstitial cystitis, an autoimmune disease that involves urinary frequency/urgency, sensitivity to many foods, muscle pain, sensitive bowels, and abdominal bloating. Although I've had much improvement using western medications, I still have symptoms and was looking for more answers. I've been doing acupuncture twice a week and drinking herbs every night in addition to my western meds. So far, I haven't had any improvement and even a few more flareups than usual. My Chinese doctor says my problem is " damp heat " and it will take time. Do you think it's a mistake to take both western meds and the herbs? How long should I stay with TCM before I give up? I tried Chinese herbs 10 years ago for this disease, but gave up after 6 months of no improvement. I was not on meds then. I also tried acupuncture alone for two months several years ago with no results. What do you think? I really believe in the theories of TCM and want to give it a chance, but I don't want to do damage in mixing meds and herbs. Best, Jeanne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Hi Jeanne, There are a few causes for the urinary dysfunction that you're describing. If it is indeed damp heat then the formula called Ba Zheng San is likely being used, and really shouldn't take that long to kick in and work for you. Dampness can be slow to correct, but the heat part is generally easier to fix. If you have damp-heat, I would expect the urination to burn or have a strong odor. There are other causes for what you've described as well, and they can take a little longer to fix. I had a patient come in with this kind of thing about a year ago. She had pretty much what you're talking about and treating it as damp heat did work for her, but it didn't take the problem away, it just toned it down a bit. Ba Zheng San assumes some sort of bacterial infection. That's the " heat " part of the diagnosis. Later on, we decided to treat this as " Spleen Qi Not Lifting " and used a formula for this condition called Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang. This Spleen Qi Not Lifting is basically saying that you have a deficiency of energy that holds up the organs in your body and so things are sinking down and pressing on your bladder causing the feelings and symptoms that you describe. For a moment, I'd like you to throw out everything that anybody has ever told you about your problem. Ask yourself if this problem is worse when you're tired. If so, this may be the real problem. It isn't unusual for TCM (traditional Chinese medicine) practitioners to disagree, incidently. If you have this Spleen Qi Not Lifting going on, you probably have other symptoms of Spleen Qi deficiency as well. Here they are: Bloating, gas, loose stools, easy brusing, spotting between periods, fatigue, tongue with teethmarks around the edge. There is one more common cause for the symptoms that you've described. We call it Liver Qi Stagnation which is to say its a stress induced issue where by the flow of Qi is compromised and along with it, the elasticity of the urinary bladder. This gives rise to frequent urination, possibly with lower abdominal pain and discomfort. If your problem is aggravated by stress, this may be what's going on. Also, you'll find that the quantity of urine that passes through is very small, like a few tablespoons each time. Is that describing your condition? -al. Jeanne LaForgia wrote: > > Hi everyone- > For two months I've been seeing a Chinese MD for interstitial > cystitis, an autoimmune disease that involves urinary > frequency/urgency, sensitivity to many foods, muscle pain, sensitive > bowels, and abdominal bloating. Although I've had much improvement > using western medications, I still have symptoms and was looking for > more answers. I've been doing acupuncture twice a week and drinking > herbs every night in addition to my western meds. So far, I haven't > had any improvement and even a few more flareups than usual. My > Chinese doctor says my problem is " damp heat " and it will take time. > Do you think it's a mistake to take both western meds and the herbs? > How long should I stay with TCM before I give up? I tried Chinese > herbs 10 years ago for this disease, but gave up after 6 months of no > improvement. I was not on meds then. I also tried acupuncture alone > for two months several years ago with no results. What do you > think? I really believe in the theories of TCM and want to give it a > chance, but I don't want to do damage in mixing meds and herbs. > Best, > Jeanne > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2002 Report Share Posted November 3, 2002 Thanks, Al, for an excellent (as usual) summation. Victoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 4, 2002 Report Share Posted November 4, 2002 Thank you Al for your thoughts. From what you've said, I may indeed have a Liver Qi Stagnation problem. I wonder if my acupuncturist would be offended if I told him he might be going after the wrong thing with the " damp heat " . He says I have a " slippery pulse " , hmmm. I welcome any recommendations for a TCM practitioner near Boston. Thanks again, Jeanne Chinese Traditional Medicine, Al Stone <alstone@b...> wrote: > Hi Jeanne, > > There are a few causes for the urinary dysfunction that you're > describing. If it is indeed damp heat then the formula called Ba Zheng > San is likely being used, and really shouldn't take that long to kick in > and work for you. Dampness can be slow to correct, but the heat part is > generally easier to fix. If you have damp-heat, I would expect the > urination to burn or have a strong odor. > > There are other causes for what you've described as well, and they can > take a little longer to fix. > > I had a patient come in with this kind of thing about a year ago. She > had pretty much what you're talking about and treating it as damp heat > did work for her, but it didn't take the problem away, it just toned it > down a bit. Ba Zheng San assumes some sort of bacterial infection. > That's the " heat " part of the diagnosis. > > Later on, we decided to treat this as " Spleen Qi Not Lifting " and used a > formula for this condition called Bu Zhong Yi Qi Tang. This Spleen Qi > Not Lifting is basically saying that you have a deficiency of energy > that holds up the organs in your body and so things are sinking down and > pressing on your bladder causing the feelings and symptoms that you > describe. For a moment, I'd like you to throw out everything that > anybody has ever told you about your problem. Ask yourself if this > problem is worse when you're tired. If so, this may be the real problem. > It isn't unusual for TCM (traditional Chinese medicine) practitioners to > disagree, incidently. If you have this Spleen Qi Not Lifting going on, > you probably have other symptoms of Spleen Qi deficiency as well. Here > they are: Bloating, gas, loose stools, easy brusing, spotting between > periods, fatigue, tongue with teethmarks around the edge. > > There is one more common cause for the symptoms that you've described. > We call it Liver Qi Stagnation which is to say its a stress induced > issue where by the flow of Qi is compromised and along with it, the > elasticity of the urinary bladder. This gives rise to frequent > urination, possibly with lower abdominal pain and discomfort. If your > problem is aggravated by stress, this may be what's going on. Also, > you'll find that the quantity of urine that passes through is very > small, like a few tablespoons each time. Is that describing your condition? > > -al. > > Jeanne LaForgia wrote: > > > > Hi everyone- > > For two months I've been seeing a Chinese MD for interstitial > > cystitis, an autoimmune disease that involves urinary > > frequency/urgency, sensitivity to many foods, muscle pain, sensitive > > bowels, and abdominal bloating. Although I've had much improvement > > using western medications, I still have symptoms and was looking for > > more answers. I've been doing acupuncture twice a week and drinking > > herbs every night in addition to my western meds. So far, I haven't > > had any improvement and even a few more flareups than usual. My > > Chinese doctor says my problem is " damp heat " and it will take time. > > Do you think it's a mistake to take both western meds and the herbs? > > How long should I stay with TCM before I give up? I tried Chinese > > herbs 10 years ago for this disease, but gave up after 6 months of no > > improvement. I was not on meds then. I also tried acupuncture alone > > for two months several years ago with no results. What do you > > think? I really believe in the theories of TCM and want to give it a > > chance, but I don't want to do damage in mixing meds and herbs. > > Best, > > Jeanne > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine@o... > > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine-@o... > > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine-@o... > > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner@o... > > > > Shortcut URL to this page: > > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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