nightshades

[Guest guest]

Hi Mbanu,

Did you check in " Healing with Whole Foods "

that says " whose primary toxin is solanine

which has been known to produce diarhea,

heart failure, headache and vomiting..... "

P. 502-505....pretty interesting.

Also for FMS sufferers the solanine interferes

with enzymes in the muscles and may cause

pain and discomfort....from Prescription for

Nutritional Healing by Balch and Balch.

I have also read that solanine(a bitter poisonous

alkaloid) accumulates in the

body and harmful effects may appear years later.

You've probably heard of the dangers of eating

green potatoes and potato sprouts....they make

you sick because there is a higher concentration

of solanine.

 

Anyway, I don't know if any of the following excerpts gives any insight.

But, nightshades have been around for a long time. And, IMHO, maybe,

until modern science, the West just hasn't used it's power of observation

like Eastern cultures have. I'd guess that the problems caused by

nightshades, at least for those susceptible, have been around for a very long

time.

 

Macrobiotics say:

 

Vegetables not recommended for regular use include: nightshades (potatoes,

tomatoes, eggplant, peppers), spinach, beets, and zucchini

 

Probably for the same reason to it is recommended to avoid: (i.e. has an

adverse effect on one's health)

 

· Meat, animal fat, eggs, poultry, dairy products including butter, yogurt,

ice

cream, milk and cheese), refined sugars, chocolate, molasses, honey, other

simple sugars and foods treated with them, and vanilla.

· Tropical or semi-tropical fruits and fruit juices, soda, artificial

drinks and

beverages, coffee, colored tea, and all aromatic stimulating teas such as mint

or peppermint tea.

· All artificially colored, preserved, sprayed, or chemically treated

foods. All

refined and polished grains, flours, and their derivatives, mass- produced

industrialized food including all canned, frozen, and irradiated foods.

· Hot spices, any aromatic stimulating food or food accessory, artificial

vinegar, and strong alcoholic beverages.

 

The last thiry years is hardly the first time that these

veggies got a bad rap...hardly was avoiding nightshades

an " invention " of the '70's... The Spanish Conquistadors

considered them poisonous when they discovered them in the

New World ...... they resembled the Belladonna.

And, they weren't consumed here til after, like 1820.

The tomato had to overcome the suspicion directed

toward any member of the often toxic solanum family.

 

Like the potato:

" was regarded as poisonous because of its foliar resemblance to nightshades "

<http://www.uga.edu/vegetable/potato.html>http://www.uga.edu/vegetable/pota

to.html

 

 

And, interestingly:

" ....nightshades are attracted to and thrive in geopathic stress. "

<http://www.mercola.com/2000/aug/13/geopathic_stress.htm>http://www.mercola

..com/2000/aug/13/geopathic_stress.htm

 

" The potato became saddled with blame for any number of ills,

ranging from laziness and poverty, to sexual reproductive excesses,

to the rumor that potatoes caused leprosy. In many case, the " medical "

nature of this prejudice worked in tandem with similar class prejedice,

stigmatizing the potato and its poor consumers as morally inferior and

unhealthy. "

<http://www.kcts.org/productions/hotpotatoes/history/index.asp>http://www.k

cts.org/productions/hotpotatoes/history/index.asp

 

 

Modern research:

 

" Nightshades have been implicated in the cause of the calciphylactic

syndrome, where calcium is robbed from the bones and teeth and

then deposited in soft tissue. This process is associated with arthritic

conditions and a whole host of other degenerative diseases. "

<http://www.bios.co.nz/low-fat-recepies.html>http://www.bios.co.nz/low-fat-

recepies.html

 

" The harmful effects of nightshades can then accumulate over years

of ingestion and turn into full-blown disease states, such as rheumatoid

or osteoarthritis. Ironically, consuming foods grown organically may even

make the problem worse. Some varieties of tomato that are preferred by

organic gardeners, for example, are actually higher in toxins than

conventional

 

varieties.'

http://www.biochemicals.com/specific.php3?condition=1

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

At 09:12 PM 10/24/02 +0000, you wrote:

>

> I keep running into him as a source while I try to track down the

> source of the " avoid nightshades " dietary rule that macrobiotics and

> some TCM practitioners have latched onto, which appears to be an

> invention of the 1970s.

>

> From what I have been able to cobble together, Daniel P. Reid was

> supposedly born in San Fransisco, holds a Master's degree in Chinese

> Language and Civilization, and has lived in East Asia for over 30

> years, over 20 of which were spent learning various aspects of

> Traditional . He was also apparently a restauranteur

> based in Taiwan at one time, but currently lives in Byron Bay,

> Australia.

>

> He seems to have a reputation as being a respectable source of

> knowlege, and he does publish under Shambhala, which generally puts

> out reasonable stuff, but what I've read of his doesn't seem to live

> up to his reputation.

>

> He seems to mix and match his own ideas, Indian and other Eastern

> miscellanea, 19th century European quackery with actual useful

> Chinese information, calling it all Traditional .

>

> Has anyone else read any of his works? Am I jumping to conclusions?

> I've only read a couple of his books, and they do seem to have a

> reasonable amount of good information in them, it's just the bizzare

> excesses that makes me suspicious.

>

> Mbanu

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> > I keep running into him as a source while I try to track down the

> > source of the " avoid nightshades " dietary rule that macrobiotics

> > and some TCM practitioners have latched onto, which appears to be

> > an invention of the 1970s.

 

> But, nightshades have been around for a long time. And, IMHO,

> maybe, until modern science, the West just hasn't used it's power

> of observation like Eastern cultures have. I'd guess that the

> problems caused by nightshades, at least for those susceptible,

> have been around for a very long time.

 

[snip]

 

> The last thiry years is hardly the first time that these

> veggies got a bad rap...hardly was avoiding nightshades

> an " invention " of the '70's... The Spanish Conquistadors

> considered them poisonous when they discovered them in the

> New World ...... they resembled the Belladonna.

> And, they weren't consumed here til after, like 1820.

> The tomato had to overcome the suspicion directed

> toward any member of the often toxic solanum family.

 

You are corrct in your Western history, but the difficulty is with

finding Chinese sources. The official macrobiotic website claims the

research of Norman Childers as it's source. He published a book on

the dangers of nightshades back in 1977.

((http://www.macrobiotics.org/nightshades.html) I have contacted them

asking for further information, and whether or not there is a Chinese

foundation behind this practice as well, but am still awaiting a

reply.

 

The other early Asian source where I have seen nightshades mentioned

negatively was in the writing of Chee Soo

(http://www.kungfu.f9.co.uk/ttt/soohist.htm), who published a book

called The Tao of Long Life: the Chinese art of Ch'ang Ming back in

1979, which outlined something surprisingly similar to macrobiotics.

The only problem is reliability. Chee Soo learned this system as part

of the Lee family style from Chan Kam Lee, whom Chee met in 1933 at

the age of 14. (http://www.gibbon12.freeserve.co.uk/leestyle.htm)

However, Chee Soo was known for not following his own dietary

practices, (http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en & lr= & ie=UTF-8 & oe=UTF-

8 & selm=8i5bra%24sqt%241%40nnrp1.deja.com) and it seems like he may

have misunderstood some of the concepts. For instance, in his book,

he recomends a complete avoidance of tropical fruits and juices for

everyone. I suspect that the reason that Chan Kam Lee may have

recommended this was that he and Chee Soo were both living in England

at the time. Unfortunately, Chan Kam Lee died in a shipwreck off the

coast of China near Canton in 1953, and thus cannot be contacted.

 

No clear reason for nightshade avoidance was stated in Chee Soo's

book, although he did mention an example where potatoes were fed to

pigs, who became increasingly aggressive, later developed gout, and

died. I am planning to try to find other students of Chan Kam Lee who

might be able to explain the nightshade restrictions further.

 

Mbanu

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Kit. You've done a lot of work on this.

 

I have a nephew whose ADD may get worse worse when he consumes

potatoes.

 

Victoria

 

> I have also read that solanine(a bitter poisonous

> alkaloid) accumulates in the

> body and harmful effects may appear years later.

> You've probably heard of the dangers of eating

> green potatoes and potato sprouts....they make

> you sick because there is a higher concentration

> of solanine.

>

> Macrobiotics say:

>

> Vegetables not recommended for regular use include: nightshades

(potatoes,

> tomatoes, eggplant, peppers), spinach, beets, and zucchini

>

>> Modern research:

>

> " Nightshades have been implicated in the cause of the

calciphylactic

> syndrome, where calcium is robbed from the bones and teeth and

> then deposited in soft tissue. This process is associated with

arthritic

> conditions and a whole host of other degenerative diseases. "

> <http://www.bios.co.nz/low-fat-

recepies.html>http://www.bios.co.nz/low-fat-

> recepies.html

>

> " The harmful effects of nightshades can then accumulate over years

> of ingestion and turn into full-blown disease states, such as

rheumatoid

> or osteoarthritis. Ironically, consuming foods grown organically

may even

> make the problem worse. Some varieties of tomato that are preferred

by

> organic gardeners, for example, are actually higher in toxins than

> conventional

>

> varieties.'

> http://www.biochemicals.com/specific.php3?condition=1

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/24/2002 6:27:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

jcc writes:

 

<< No clear reason for nightshade avoidance was stated in Chee Soo's

book, although he did mention an example where potatoes were fed to

pigs, who became increasingly aggressive, later developed gout, and

died. >>

 

My intent below is not to be curt ... just succinct:

 

Pig = Water Element.

 

Potatoes = Yin tonic

 

Water Element is Yin

 

Too much Yin will make one aggressive. One gets greedy and possessive. I

have a Water element predominant dog that I see this happen to all the time.

If I feed him too many Yin foods ... he gets aggressive ... greedy ...

possessive .... full of himself ... etc

 

Too much Yin also restricts free flow of Qi. Without the free flow of Qi ...

toxins ... by products etc collect = gout

 

Continue to feed Yin foods to a Yin being with imbalance and death will

certainly ensue.

 

Pretty cool.

 

There is no such thing as a good or bad food. " One mans food will be another

mans poison " .

 

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Keep us posted, Mbanu,

 

I'm not surprised that you're having difficulty in a search. Both the

tomato and potato (don't know about other nightshades) are native

to So. Amer. They probably have not been in the diets of Asians

(who knows, maybe even due to ancient roots of xenophobia)

for very long. Possibly, for that reason, even, problems are more

prevalent or appear more quickly. I did read in HWWF that in

Japan they consider eggplant off-limits to pregant women for fear

of miscarriage.

Good luck, Kit

 

BTW: Altho, I did read that potatoes were believed to cause

gout in medieval Europe, it's too bad food studies are done on animals, since

they have differently designed digestive systems.

I.E. Dogs and cats can become anemic on onions and garlic....believed

to be health foods for us.

[Guest guest]

> My intent below is not to be curt ... just succinct:

>

> Pig = Water Element.

>

> Potatoes = Yin tonic

>

> Water Element is Yin

 

Not trying to be argumentative, but are you positive?? At least

according to medboo.com, potatoes are neutral in nature and sweet in

flavor. (http://www.medboo.com/eng/healthy/foods.htm) Of course, I

suppose that they may have been talking about Chinese yams, but I

simply wanted to double check with you.

 

Also, as far as pig goes, I think that the reason why pig is

associated with the Water element is not because of it's nature, but

rather because it is best eaten during the Winter, which also

corresponds to the water element. In this case, pig would be

something of a Yang creature. (Much the same way that Wheat is

associated with Wood because it is best eaten in the Spring, which

is also associated with Wood, as opposed to Wheat having a Wood-type

constitution.) The Five Element correspondences seem to work with

opposites sometimes, without saying that that is what they are

doing. As an example, the Five Flavors confused me quite a bit until

I realized this, since their properties were in contrast with the

properties of the elements that they " represented " . Sour for

instance has a gathering effect, yet is associated with the wood

element, which is known for outward dispersal. I may be wrong about

the pig, however. It can be difficult for me to tell sometimes when

they are speaking in opposites. A materia medica listing for it

lists pork as being sweet and salty in flavor, neutral in nature.

(http://www.echinaherbs.com/E-more.asp?aid=473) I am unsure how the

properties of eating an animal compare to the properties an animal

has when it is living...

 

> Too much Yin will make one aggressive. One gets greedy and

> possessive. I have a Water element predominant dog that I see

> this happen to all the time. If I feed him too many Yin foods ...

> he gets aggressive ... greedy ... possessive .... full of

> himself ... etc

 

That's very interesting! Have you noticed any differences in

diagnosing dogs compared to humans?

 

Mbanu

[Guest guest]

-

" Kit " <kitcurtin

<Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Friday, October 25, 2002 2:35 PM

Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: nightshades

 

 

I did read in HWWF that in

> Japan they consider eggplant off-limits to pregant women for fear

> of miscarriage.

> Good luck, Kit

>

 

Egg-plant: Cool, Sweet; enters LI, Liv, Sp, St, Uterus.

 

This has been the only reference to a food or herb that enters the Uterus I

have seen so far

Could have something to do with it.

Nuno

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/25/2002 11:05:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,

jcc writes:

 

<< Pig = Water Element.

Potatoes = Yin tonic

> Water Element is Yin

 

<< Not trying to be argumentative, but are you positive?? At least

according to medboo.com, potatoes are neutral in nature and sweet in

flavor.

 

I have learned to never say that I am positive about anything! ... but more

than taste and temperature is involved in the actions of a food.

 

Potatoes are neutral and sweet. The sweet taste nourishes the Earth Element.

The Earth Element is Damp. Most foods are sweet ... yet too much sweet

turns to Yin (creates too much Damp). Potatoes are a vegetable that grow

underground which makes it more Yin (as opposed to a leafy vegetable that

grows above ground). Potatoes are also also white. White foods nourish the

Lungs. The " Lung and Kidney are mutually engendering " . If you nourish one

.... you nourish the other. A warm pungent food will have a greater effect on

Kidney Yang and a sweet food (and especially a tuber or root) will have a

greater effect on Kidney Yin. Too much Damp (generally) turns to Cold ... so

even though potatoes are neutral, in excess they can create Cold and Damp.

 

I have tested it on my dog ... potatoes consistently aggravate Cold and Damp

with him.

 

<< Also, as far as pig goes, I think that the reason why pig is

associated with the Water element is not because of it's nature, but

rather because it is best eaten during the Winter, which also

corresponds to the water element. In this case, pig would be

something of a Yang creature.

 

Pork nourishes Kidney Yin ... it is neutral, sweet and salty (sweet targets

Earth and salty targets the Kidney). " Excess ultimately transforms into the

opposite " which can be seen through the Yin/Yang symbol. Thus in the winter

(Yin and Kidney time) if a balanced individual eats pork (Yin tonic) ...

there is an excess of Yin energy ... which has the potential to transform

into Yang. All would depend on the state of the individual's energies.

Someone like myself who is Yin and Yang Deficient may simply aggravate the

Yang Deficiency with a Yin tonic in the winter. Eating Yin foods would not

create an excess in me ... since I am deficient. If there isn't an excess

.... it can't transform into the opposite.

 

<< A materia medica listing for it lists pork as being sweet and salty in

flavor, neutral in nature. I am unsure how the properties of eating an animal

compare to the properties an animal has when it is living...

 

We can't give away something that we don't have. Thus for a pig to empart a

sweet, salty and neutral energy on another being ... the pigs energy would

have to be sweet, salty and neutral.

 

<< Have you noticed any differences in diagnosing dogs compared to humans?

 

Not really .... but diagnosing a dog is more challenging because they cannot

speak. It forces us to be all the more observant.

 

Lynn

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/28/2002 11:10:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, GDurst1774

writes:

 

<< Thus in the winter (Yin and Kidney time) if a balanced individual eats

pork (Yin tonic) ... there is an excess of Yin energy ... which has the

potential to transform into Yang.

 

I just thought of something. Fat ... creates Heat and supplements Yin. Most

pork is quite fatty. Plus ... all meat is Yang in nature. This could play a

major role in why it is to be eaten in Winter. Pork targets the Kidney ...

and winter is the time when the Kidney will respond best to treatment ... but

.... the Kidney is still ... the Water Element which is Cold and Damp.

 

The Yin of the Kidney rises to the Heart to cool excess fire ... and the Yang

of the Heart descends to warm the Yang of the Kidney.

 

Thus ...I don't think this would have anything to do with the pig eating

potatoes.

 

Lynn