Points?

[Guest guest]

> " victoria_dragon " <victoria_dragon

>

> As long as it is just a headache, points on the Bladder and Small

> Intestine meridians along with heat will get rid of the headache.

> (For new readers: My headaches were due to Wind Cold invading the

> TaiYang (Bladder and Small Intestine meridians.

>

> When it's just a headache, the points on the Bladder and Small

> Intestine meridians work very quickly most of the time. When I also

> put a heating pad over the area of the points, the headache goes away

> in seconds. I learned that I have to keep the heating pads over the

> areas for a few minutes because if I'm exposed to the cool air too

> soon, the headache comes back.

>

> The headaches may be gone, but other problems remain.

> Any other suggestions on points to try. I'm using acupressure

> instead of acupuncture.

 

Victoria, My sense is that pericardium points wouldn't work like you say.

Acupressure works better on deficiencies, and my sense is that your

pericardium is in excess during your headaches. That why a Lv point like Lv 8

looks to work with acupressure. It will 'call' some of the excess to a

deficient area.

Also an idea is using something really soft like a down feather or even

fingertips, gently move along the pericardium channel between the elbow and

middle finger tip. Only do this when you don't have the headache. It soothes

the Pc. Many women feel comforted by this.

If your other remaining problems involve problems with hot & cold

temperatures, regularly massaging the bladder channel on the back of the leg

would help.

In Deadman's Acupuncture, p. 486, some points to use along with Lv8 are Bl60,

Bl58, SI2, SI1, and Ht5. These are for headache and dizzyness. That's one idea

that seems to match what you've already been doing.

Another idea is to get general foot massages on a regular basis. Or just

having your feet and hands massaged. This is different from getting a full

body massage.

When just the feet are massaged, this balances a body that tends to stagnate

near the head. It builds a pattern of allowing the Qi to flow down and then

back up again.

When the Qi can't move through the feet, sometimes it gets stuck in the head,

genitals, rectum, stomach, throat or breathing as examples.

Some people are more benefited by having only one part of their body massaged

instead of the whole body. This makes sense from an oriental medicine point of

view, where we look to simply balance excess and deficiency.

My view is that the deficient parts of the meridian system are the best to use

acupressure on. The excess areas are best with a light feather touch.

I would be interested to hear the views of others on this. - Ed

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Ed.

 

I've been experimenting with your suggestions over the weekend.

 

> Acupressure works better on deficiencies, and my sense is that your

> pericardium is in excess during your headaches.

That why a Lv point like Lv 8

> looks to work with acupressure. It will 'call' some of the excess

to a

> deficient area.

> Also an idea is using something really soft like a down feather or

even

> fingertips, gently move along the pericardium channel between the

elbow and

> middle finger tip. Only do this when you don't have the headache.

It soothes

> the Pc. Many women feel comforted by this.

 

I didn't notice anything when I tried this on the Pericardium, but I

sure did when I tried it on the Triple Heater meridian. I

experimented both with against the direction of flow for the TH (from

elbow to finger tip) and with the proper direction of flow in the TH

(from fingertip to elbow). Both helped with some numbness alone the

side of the hand and arm (Small Intestine meridian) that resulted

from my being careless about resting my arm on the edge of the

computer desk. Against the proper direction of flow, I got a mildly

lurching feeling and some very slight queasiness in the stomach and

very slight heaviness in the lower abdomen, but it definitely helped

with the numbness along the side of the hand and arm, and I

definitely felt better after doing it. Stroking the TH in the proper

direction of flow (finger to elbow) was soothing to the stomach and

resulted in the stomach area and lower abdomen area

feeling " lighter " . It too helped with the numbness, and I felt

better afterwards. By the time I went to bed, the numbness had

disappeared.

 

> If your other remaining problems involve problems with hot & cold

> temperatures, regularly massaging the bladder channel on the back

of the leg

> would help.

 

This definitely helps.

 

> In Deadman's Acupuncture, p. 486, some points to use along with Lv8

are Bl60,

> Bl58, SI2, SI1, and Ht5. These are for headache and dizzyness.

 

Thanks. I'll keep these in mind the next time I have a headache. Or

will doing them ahead of time act as a sort of " preventive

maintenance " so I won't get a headache.

 

> Another idea is to get general foot massages on a regular basis. Or

just

> having your feet and hands massaged. This is different from getting

a full

> body massage.

> When just the feet are massaged, this balances a body that tends to

stagnate

> near the head.

 

I think I'm stagnating more in the lower Jiao. (lower abdomen) I'm

having some very stubborn Cold Damp problems in that area. I tend to

be hot in the Upper Jiao (Lungs and Heart - red tip of tongue) and

Cold everywhere else.

 

> It builds a pattern of allowing the Qi to flow down and then

> back up again.

> When the Qi can't move through the feet, sometimes it gets stuck in

the head,

> genitals, rectum, stomach, throat or breathing as examples.

> Some people are more benefited by having only one part of their

body massaged

> instead of the whole body. This makes sense from an oriental

medicine point of

> view, where we look to simply balance excess and deficiency.

 

I want to throw something out here for input from others. Ideal

situation: A trained, affordable massage therapist with TCM training

in your location. Second best: A family member with some knowledge

and the time to do the massaging. What the situation usually is: An

electric foot massager.

 

I used to have a soft pair of foot massagers. They were like very

big slippers that I slipped my feet into, and there were three

speeds. There also was optional heat (which I really enjoyed). Over

the years, they wore out. So after moving, I searched for another

pair. I couldn't find any. What I had to settle for was one of

those hard, plastic tub foot massagers that one can use with or

without water. I rarely fill it with water. It's messy. I prefer

something I can slip my feet into while watching TV, and easily use

several times a day. I don't like the hard plastic, and the thing

doesn't massage as intensely as the old soft pair did. Has anyone

else noticed any difference in treatment with different types of foot

massagers? This hard plastic tub massager isn't working as well for

me as the soft slippers did.

 

> My view is that the deficient parts of the meridian system are the

best to use

> acupressure on. The excess areas are best with a light feather

touch.

 

I'm going to do some more experimenting with this. When I was

dealing with the headaches, I used 5 Element Theory to figure out

acupoints that would work and cautiously experimenting.

 

Some info for those new to TCM: One symptom of Excess is that

pressure on the area will make the pain or discomfort worse. (Excess

problems are caused by there being too much of something; Deficiency

problems by there being too little of something. Pressure (in

general) will help ease the pain or discomfort of a Deficiency-based

problem.) I had some real back problems at one time. Also, some range

of motion problems. I bought one of those electrical massagers that

you sit against. It had two speeds and there were switches for the

lower and upper back. It also had a heat switch. When I first

started to use it, I was in such bad shape that I couldn't stand to

use both the lower and upper back at the same time. I also could not

stand to use the high speed, and I couldn't stand to use the massager

for more than a minute or so at a time. In time, with use, my back

gradually got better. (So did the range of motion problems.) I had

some severe problems with Invasion by Exterior Wind Cold. This is an

Excess. The problems were made worse by the fact that I had some

Interior Deficiencies which made it easy for Excess Pernicious Evils

like Wind Cold to invade and made the symptoms of Cold and Wind even

more intense than they otherwise would have been.

 

If a person is bothered by touch and pressure, the approach to

massage and acupressure should be a very light touch. Amercians in

particular tend to have an " if a little is good, more is even better "

mentality. This is not always true. In fact, it can make things

worse. Some people will do best with very vigorous massage whereas

others require a very light touch. You may wonder how something so

light could work, but it does in certain cases. In fact, it can work

very well.

 

Sometimes the person's problems may be so complex and severe that

even light massage of an area is contraindicated until some other

problems are addressed.

 

For students (and professionals): Can there be Excess in a meridian

but Deficiency in the corresponding Organ? If so, how does this

affect the clinical picture?

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

> I want to throw something out here for input from others. Ideal

> situation: A trained, affordable massage therapist with TCM

> training in your location.

 

Huh? Why a massage therapist with TCM training?

There's a big difference between the training the AMTA views as

important and that of the AOBTA's.

Why not try finding someone who practices Tui Na, Jin Shin Do or

Shiatsu?

 

Perhaps if your dealings with self accupressure have not been as

effective as you'd want them to be it might be your delivery; the

technique. In the schools of shiatsu I've trained at technique has

been stressed perhaps even more than theory.

 

A big part of my practice as a shiatsu therapist is being in the

proper frame to do healing, in hara. A major emphasis has been

aligning my energy to facilitate the movement of the client's.

 

Penel

[Guest guest]

> Huh? Why a massage therapist with TCM training?

> There's a big difference between the training the AMTA views as

> important and that of the AOBTA's.

> Why not try finding someone who practices Tui Na, Jin Shin Do or

> Shiatsu?

 

Sorry for the over-sight. It's due to my not knowing very much about

them, and I'm glad you spoke up.

 

Please go into some detail about the different practices. I thought

Tui Na was TCM, but I probably have the terminology wrong. Also, I

thought Jin Shin Do and Shiatsu were based on acupoints.

 

What is the AOBTA?

 

Thanks,

Victoria

[Guest guest]

There are different styles of Shiatsu. Shiatsu by the way litterally means

Acupressure, as Japanese "Shi" means finger, and "Atsu" means pressure,

while "Acu" is Latin root for finger. I have studied in France and practiced

Koho Shiatsu which was not too specific of acupoints, but put lots of emphasis

on following the path of the meridians. (It is not so important in that

style to precisely locate the points, the knowledge of the path of the

meridian was sufficient - for what I studied with this instructor)

In any case, I agree with the fact that Massage ans Shiatsu are two

very different procedures. In Shiatsu, you work on energy somehow in the

same way acupuncture works, when massage has an exclusively mechanical

action.

Frederic

victoria_dragon wrote:

> Huh? Why a massage therapist with TCM

training?

> There's a big difference between the training the AMTA views

as

> important and that of the AOBTA's.

> Why not try finding someone who practices Tui Na, Jin Shin Do

or

> Shiatsu?

Sorry for the over-sight. It's due to my not knowing very much about

them, and I'm glad you spoke up.

Please go into some detail about the different practices.

I thought

Tui Na was TCM, but I probably have the terminology wrong.

Also, I

thought Jin Shin Do and Shiatsu were based on acupoints.

What is the AOBTA?

Thanks,

Victoria

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

> Please go into some detail about the different practices. I

thought

> Tui Na was TCM, but I probably have the terminology wrong. Also, I

> thought Jin Shin Do and Shiatsu were based on acupoints.

>

> What is the AOBTA?

 

American Association for Bodywork Therapies Asian

 

Yes, Tui Na is one of the 4 branches of medicine from China but ...

the AOBTA quite concisely explains the various therapies they

recognise at

 

www.aobta.org/about%20aobta.htm

 

While you're at the site, check out the educational requirements for

professional membership in the AOBTA.

 

Currently the AOBTA is also suggesting their membership sit for the

NCCAOM (National Certification Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental

Medicine)Asian bodywork exam.

www.nccaom.org/home.htm

 

And about shiatsu's having a focus on points, both of the traditions

I've studied come from Masunaga's Zen Shiatsu. I had to learn points

but the emphasis was on focusing on meridians.

(and hence, I'm here learning more;-)

 

Where a TCM acupuncture/herbalist might start a session looking at the

client's tongue and checking pulses

in the traditions of shiatsu I've studied beyond making note of the

client's voice, appearance et cetera before they lie on our futon, we

normally do our primary diagnosis at their hara (abdomen) and the

" diagnosis " process is continued all through the session.

(Something I've been told is also done in many Japanese styles of

acupuncture.)

If at any time I don't pay attention to the energy flow, I couldn't

continue giving shiatsu as I was taught.

Every leg stretch, arm rotation et cetera is like a two way energetic

conversation. To an observer if might appear as if I was moving to

music. Even in stillness the client and I have motion.

From the very beginning to the end of the session, aprox. 50 minutes

later, my hands (or some part of my body) never leave contact with

the client's body.

 

And, as I was taught, I don't attempt to " fix " anything. The session

is rather a sounding board for the client to recognise their own

energy and learn to adjust it themselves ... to wherever their balance

needs to be.

 

Penel

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Penel.

 

Again I apologize for sounding like an emphasis on acupoints is the

only way to go and for definitely failing to include shiatsu (as well

as some other schools) in the recommendation. TCM cannot do

everything, and sometimes the best approach is one that involves

different branches and styles of healing.

 

I am aware that putting the emphasis on the meridian as a whole

instead of on individual acupoints is an effective method of healing,

and sometimes can accomplish things that concentrating on individual

acupoints cannot. Also, that working with energy can be as valid of

an approach as working with mechanics (i.e., needle or press the

point). But I haven't pointed this out because I'm not as familiar

with meridian work as with concentrating on acupoints. I do consider

meridian work a part of TCM although it is one that does not get

mentioned a lot in literature. And I do recognize that meridian as

well as acupoints are a part of other healing traditions as well.

For that matter, the idea that herbs have thermal energy (are

cooling, heating, or neutral in there effects) is not restricted to

TCM or even to the East. It crops up around the world. This concept

used to be a part of Western herbalism. Today, some Western

herbalists such as Micahel Moore in Bisbee, AZ have re-incorporated

the concept back into Western herbalsim as well as improved on it.

There also is some evidence that before recorded history, Westerners

may have used acupuncture.

 

Thanks again.

 

Victoria

 

> www.aobta.org/about%20aobta.htm

>

> NCCAOM (National Certification Commission for Acupuncture and

Oriental

> Medicine)Asian bodywork exam.

> www.nccaom.org/home.htm

>

> And, as I was taught, I don't attempt to " fix " anything. The session

> is rather a sounding board for the client to recognise their own

> energy and learn to adjust it themselves ... to wherever their

balance

> needs to be.

[Guest guest]

> This concept used to be a part of Western herbalism.

> Today, some Western herbalists such as Micahel Moore

> in Bisbee, AZ have re-incorporated the concept back

> into Western herbalsim as well as improved on it.

 

Ah yes, far too often what we see of the current Western herbalism

culture is sadly the push button variety focusing on the condition and

not the state of balance producing the condition.

 

My experiences into America's herbal community (oh gosh, that sounds

like a statement by an anthropologist doesn't it) at the event

" Herbfest " (a week-end event held in an Iowa corn field by Frontier

Natural Products Co-op with about 600 in attendance every year I went)

were no diappointment though.

TCM oriented speakers were represented along side the more Western

style ones and their presentations were very popular. It was

refreshing to see how many people were drawn to a pulse lecture.

 

It was at Herbfest that I picked up Peter Holmes' 2 volume book

intitled " Western Herbs - Treatment strategies intgrating Western and

Oriental hebal medicine " pub. Snow Lotus

Its a rather pricy set but good as it includes the energetic

properties of individual herbs found in Amewrica (though sadly not how

to combine them as in TCM).

Had I not seen this set of books I might not yet heard of Greek -

Galenic medicine. I wish I had more time and the resources to

investigate that avenue.

 

> There also is some evidence that before recorded history,

Westerners

> may have used acupuncture.

 

Are you refering to the couple thousand year old man they found frozen

in a glacier (in was it Austria?) with tatoos on his body mapping the

points used in TCM for arthritis?

 

Penel

[Guest guest]

> Are you refering to the couple thousand year old man they found

frozen

> in a glacier (in was it Austria?) with tatoos on his body mapping

the

> points used in TCM for arthritis?

 

Yes. The tattos were assumed to be some sort of religious thing

until someone with acupoint knowledge saw them.

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

This is very interesting. I have read a lot of things about this guy, but

nothing about this.

You know lots of bone needles were found in prehistoric graves in Europe

(I come from there)

Where can I learn more about this ?

Frederic

victoria_dragon wrote:

> Are you refering to the couple thousand

year old man they found

frozen

> in a glacier (in was it Austria?) with tatoos on his body mapping

the

> points used in TCM for arthritis?

Yes. The tattos were assumed to be some sort of religious

thing

until someone with acupoint knowledge saw them.

Victoria

 

 

 

 

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