Guest guest Posted October 2, 2002 Report Share Posted October 2, 2002 I am far from being an expert in Chi Qong or Martial Arts, but i practiced the latter since 1969. And this is my experience : yes, there are ways to develop Qi without any movement, by sheer meditation - breath control, internal discipline...I have no doubt a number of very knowledgeable people followed this path. I have met numbers of bozos pretending to have the answer to the world's problem, and I have been blessed to meet 2 martial Arts masters, Sensei Rolland Hernaez (8th Dan in Ju Jitsu) from France, and Sensei Yamamoto (10th Dan in Yoshukai Karate) from Japan who do not pretend to master anything but Martial Arts... So I came to the conclusion that serious martial training is the easiest way to walk, because there is little BS in martial arts. Fight, hard, and honestly. You will realize that past a certain age, no matter what you do, you are doomed... This is acknowledging the truth : you are getting old... It sucks, but it is a fact. If you are any kind of teacher, you taught some of your students some advanced technics, some of your prefered technics, with the tricks that go with them. You probably found the right students, so they improved these according to their own physical abilities, and now, it becomes hard to beat them. They are on the way up, you are on the way down. Yin, Yang... Still, there are ways to stay ahead, for a while, and for most of us, they are about moving around, not about meditation. The Liver is about storing and delivering Blood, and moving Qi around - twist your abs in and out, expell blood from the liver, bring it back into it. Jog : when the muscles need Blood, the Liver will deliver (DE-LIVER - do you get it ?), when you go back to rest, it sucks the blood right back in and stores it. So : exercise, slowly, practice actual moving Chi Qong, and be happy. Reject Yang intellectual propositions about solving all Qi problems by pure meditation. It is one thing to hear about no movement Qi Qong, another thing to practice it. I highly advise to practice traditionnal movement based Qi Qong. Do not only rely on information or books, practice, and see what is good for you. Same for TCM, practice, practice, practice... Be real. If you want to progress you need to work hard, and it is easier to work hard with hard Masters from outside who already have been there than it is to work with sweet Self proclaimed Masters who never fought anywhere but strived on abstract concepts from books. As I told before, I am far from being a Master. I have actually studied Martial Arts for over 30 years. They brought me to Traditional Chinese Medicine. I have seen times and times students being lured into worthless theories about : "the invicible power of Qi", or such things. Good students. Deceived Students. They got beat, hard... I do not really enjoy fights - they only should be a test - but I have been in a few of them, and can speak about winning and losing, about pride, about fear, about strength. And I would like to remind each one of us that no matter how nice they might be, books do not replace actual practice. Once again, practice, practice, practice, Hard, with your hearts, guts, fists, muscles, tendons, ligaments, body, not with your brain and lungs only. Frederic. victoria_dragon wrote: > QiGong can be done without any movements at all, as well. Please elaborate. There is a little in the message base, but I'm always looking for new information. Thanks, Victoria Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2002 Report Share Posted October 2, 2002 > Still, there are ways to stay ahead, for a while, and for most of us, > they are about moving around, not about meditation. > The Liver is about storing and delivering Blood, and moving Qi around - > twist your abs in and out, expell blood from the liver, bring it back > into it. Jog : when the muscles need Blood, the Liver will deliver > (DE-LIVER - do you get it ?), when you go back to rest, it sucks the > blood right back in and stores it. > So : exercise, slowly, practice actual moving Chi Qong, and be happy. > Reject Yang intellectual propositions about solving all Qi problems by > pure meditation. > It is one thing to hear about no movement Qi Qong, another thing to > practice it. I highly advise to practice traditionnal movement based Qi > Qong. Do not only rely on information or books, practice, and see what > is good for you. Same for TCM, practice, practice, practice... Be real. There are situations in which the person can't do physical excercise or can only do very limited physical exercise. So healers need to know about the non-physical techniques for these cases. Back when I was the sickest, even the simplest Qi Gong movements would have been beyond my abilities. (What impressed me so much about TCM was that within 3 weeks of starting on the herbs I was to the point of being able to do light exercise regularly. And as sick as I was at one time, there are people who are even sicker than I was.) > and honestly. You will realize that past a certain age, no matter what > you do, you are doomed... This is acknowledging the truth : you are > getting old... It sucks, but it is a fact. If you are any kind of > teacher, you taught some of your students some advanced technics, some > of your prefered technics, with the tricks that go with them. You > probably found the right students, so they improved these according to > their own physical abilities, and now, it becomes hard to beat them. > They are on the way up, you are on the way down. Yin, Yang... It's one thing to be old when one is in one's 70s, 80s, 90s, etc. It's quite another thing to be old when one in only in one's teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, etc. I remember thinking back after I had improved some with Western alternative medicine from when I was the sickest that no one should be as sick as I had been unless they were very, very old and fixing to die. For some reason I can't think of the fact that one day I will have lived a great number of years and die then as being " doomed " . Given my history, I think of having lived a great number of years as an accomplishment. That is provided the person has really lived and not just existed in quiet desperation. And as odd as it might seem, I don't think of aging as being on the way down or Yang giving way to Yin. There is Yang within Yin, and Yin within Yang. Each age has its lessons, its triumphs, and its good things. Maybe it comes from having done the old thing when I was young. It was very disconcerting to realize in my 30s that there were a lot of people in their 70s and even 80s who were in far better physical shape than I was and who could do more things than I could do. And maybe it comes from today being able to do more physically than I could when I was younger. Victoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2002 Report Share Posted October 2, 2002 >Still, there are ways to stay ahead, for a while, and for most of us, >they are about moving around, not about meditation. If it is one thing we learn in Chinese Healing is that everyone is individual, no two cases are alike. I don't think that it is possible to state that pure meditation won't work to acheive a goal. Who says the goal is the same as yours.....including moving qi? It is all a matter of degree. Kit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2002 Report Share Posted October 2, 2002 If you read carefully Kit, I wrote "for MOST of us... " I do not deny that for some of us, meditative practice can achieve surprising results. I am only stating that I for the majority of us western persons, it is easier to develop Qi through action and movement than through purely meditative or spiritual practice. I hope I did not offend you. Frederic Kit wrote: >Still, there are ways to stay ahead, for a while, and for most of us, >they are about moving around, not about meditation. If it is one thing we learn in Chinese Healing is that everyone is individual, no two cases are alike. I don't think that it is possible to state that pure meditation won't work to acheive a goal. Who says the goal is the same as yours.....including moving qi? It is all a matter of degree. Kit Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2002 Report Share Posted October 2, 2002 Hi Frederic, No, not all...no offense taken. I actually did catch the " most of us " but since the rest of the post seemed to dis meditation I went with that. I have no disagreement with the " majority " idea but I think that there are large numbers ( and, boy seems to be growing!) out there that can benefit greatly/mostly by meditating.... even if the goal is eventually to get to a point where they are moving. Take care, Kit At 09:14 AM 10/2/02 -0500, you wrote: > > If you read carefully Kit, I wrote " for MOST of us... " I do not deny > that for some of us, meditative practice can achieve surprising results. > I am only stating that I for the majority of us western persons, it is > easier to develop Qi through action and movement than through purely > meditative or spiritual practice. > I hope I did not offend you. > Frederic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2002 Report Share Posted October 2, 2002 I feel very priviledged to be teaching qigong at a couple of senior centers. Many cannot stand for the entire routine, not yet! Some need to remain sitting. Some with walkers are trying to stand without the support. All are doing great. And I am glad to be teaching them a form they can use for their wellbeing even if they get laid out in bed for awhile. It'll get them up sooner. If they cannot stand and do all the movements, then they have to work harder and keep their mind on the movement (without being able to move): i.e. " mind on laogong, palms facing body, beam qi into internal organs, down top of legs to toes, along side of foot, behind ... " . That is the " gong " and work part of qigong. A collegue is teaching cancer groups and critically ill groups at a local hospital. They are learning a more involved form, longer and more movement. Along with a " laying down meditation " , laying down form of qigong. There are many forms - for many different people in many different places. I find that different ones work better for me at different times in the past years. We are on a path that always changes. And our culture want to be fast fast fast, and this is hard on the kidneys - eventually. What I like about qigong, which I see as a larger category which includes martial arts (I have studied hard and soft styles, Japanese and Chinese, self-defense, qigong for 13 years - most actually intigrated into one unique system passed down thru 3 generations of teachers from my Shigong's father): is the challange of being 'slow' in a fast world. My town has a Chinese garden - it's first courtyard is named something like " the Great Enlightenment Hall " - this is the entryway for the garden complex: if you are able to find calm peace in this hall with all the coming and goings of the outside world and its varied dramas ... you are well on the path to enlightenment. Is a struggle necessary? I believe that qigong, martial arts and many healing traditions are trying to teach us how to get to inner peace without the need to fight. How to get thru the hard parts without a struggle, without a fight: with an illness, with our social group, partner or family, .... Just ask any martial arts master how often they have to use their art against someone. They had better say " never " . The idea is to learn how to do it so you don't have to use it. Guess I might be an idealistic peace freak. That's ok for me. No denying there is struggle - just more managable. And many others are more optimistic than I - I have heard my teachers say there does not need to be struggle - tho' requires hard work. I'm still working on it. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 2, 2002 Report Share Posted October 2, 2002 Dear Frederic, Can we really " develop " qi? Is qi not already developed within and around us? What is qi anyways? The character denotes the relationship between heaven and earth. But what does that mean, and how can we use it practically for health and happiness? I have studied martial arts for fifteen years, and from what I can tell, there is a level of qi, but only available to those who devote their lives to studying the internal martial arts. Karate and other hard styles I beleive cannot develop beyond the muscle level. The four levels being; muscle, bone, qi and yi. But this isn't a martial arts group, so enough said about that. As for qigong, I feel that a really high-level master can get to a space where each of his actions can be classified a qigong. And I also feel that even a beginner can strive for this level of impeccability. Why not do qigong while washing the dishes, rather than thinking about what you have to do afterwards? As for the Liver and Blood. I don't think that the classics meant that the Blood is literally stored in the Liver (as an individual organ). But I feel it has more to do with the movement of wood, the Hun, and the General; which are vital aspects to understanding the TCM Liver. I often ask myself; " Is my hun consuming my blood in daydreams, or is my Hun distributing my blood towards my needs? " As with all healing, I feel that TCM offers a wonderfully rich source of information and maps to work on self-cultivation. Isn't that what Life is about anyhow? Self-cultivation. I feel that as an adult, self-cultivation is more about letting go, and dusting off the yi, so that we can experience the feeling of life more, rather than fighting to stay ahead. It's definately hard work. But so is weeding a garden that's been ignored for ten or more years. Blaise Chinese Traditional Medicine, frederic <fredlecut@e...> wrote: > I am far from being an expert in Chi Qong or Martial Arts, but i > practiced the latter since 1969. And this is my experience : yes, there > are ways to develop Qi without any movement, by sheer meditation - > breath control, internal discipline...I have no doubt a number of very > knowledgeable people followed this path. > > I have met numbers of bozos pretending to have the answer to the world's > problem, and I have been blessed to meet 2 martial Arts masters, Sensei > Rolland Hernaez (8th Dan in Ju Jitsu) from France, and Sensei Yamamoto > (10th Dan in Yoshukai Karate) from Japan who do not pretend to master > anything but Martial Arts... > > So I came to the conclusion that serious martial training is the easiest > way to walk, because there is little BS in martial arts. Fight, hard, > and honestly. You will realize that past a certain age, no matter what > you do, you are doomed... This is acknowledging the truth : you are > getting old... It sucks, but it is a fact. If you are any kind of > teacher, you taught some of your students some advanced technics, some > of your prefered technics, with the tricks that go with them. You > probably found the right students, so they improved these according to > their own physical abilities, and now, it becomes hard to beat them. > They are on the way up, you are on the way down. Yin, Yang... > > Still, there are ways to stay ahead, for a while, and for most of us, > they are about moving around, not about meditation. > The Liver is about storing and delivering Blood, and moving Qi around - > twist your abs in and out, expell blood from the liver, bring it back > into it. Jog : when the muscles need Blood, the Liver will deliver > (DE-LIVER - do you get it ?), when you go back to rest, it sucks the > blood right back in and stores it. > So : exercise, slowly, practice actual moving Chi Qong, and be happy. > Reject Yang intellectual propositions about solving all Qi problems by > pure meditation. > It is one thing to hear about no movement Qi Qong, another thing to > practice it. I highly advise to practice traditionnal movement based Qi > Qong. Do not only rely on information or books, practice, and see what > is good for you. Same for TCM, practice, practice, practice... Be real. > > If you want to progress you need to work hard, and it is easier to work > hard with hard Masters from outside who already have been there than it > is to work with sweet Self proclaimed Masters who never fought anywhere > but strived on abstract concepts from books. > > As I told before, I am far from being a Master. I have actually studied > Martial Arts for over 30 years. They brought me to Traditional Chinese > Medicine. I have seen times and times students being lured into > worthless theories about : " the invicible power of Qi " , or such things. > Good students. Deceived Students. They got beat, hard... I do not really > enjoy fights - they only should be a test - but I have been in a few of > them, and can speak about winning and losing, about pride, about fear, > about strength. And I would like to remind each one of us that no matter > how nice they might be, books do not replace actual practice. Once > again, practice, practice, practice, Hard, with your hearts, guts, > fists, muscles, tendons, ligaments, body, not with your brain and lungs > only. > > Frederic. > > > > victoria_dragon wrote: > > > > QiGong can be done without any movements at all, as well. > > > > Please elaborate. There is a little in the message base, but I'm > > always looking for new information. > > > > Thanks, > > Victoria > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 Chinese Traditional Medicine, " victoria_dragon " <victoria_dragon@h...> wrote: > There are situations in which the person can't do physical excercise > or can only do very limited physical exercise. So healers need to > know about the non-physical techniques for these cases. Back when I > was the sickest, even the simplest Qi Gong movements would have been > beyond my abilities. Roger Jahnke's book, The Healer Within, has several basic qigong exercises that can be done standing, sitting, or lying down, depending on physical abilities as well as breathing exercises. Even if you can only lift a finger slightly while visualizing the exercise, your brain thinks your body is actually doing it and responds accordingly. This is why cancer therapy that includes visualizations can be so effective. sue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 > " I have studied martial arts for fifteen years, and from what I can > tell, there is a level of qi, but only available to those who devote > their lives to studying the internal martial arts. Karate and other > hard styles I beleive cannot develop beyond the muscle level. The > four levels being; muscle, bone, qi and yi. But this isn't a martial > arts group, so enough said about that. " I too have studied a long time and what you said was true, but the only reason is most people do not know all there is to Martial arts, perhaps the master you have did not get that instruction and therefore neither will you, and if you pass it down neither will the one you teach. but as i have mentioned before, the Martial Arts masters of old were closely connected to both healing and other esoterical pratices such as chi/ki cultivation. For me there is no difference, i was taught that both are closely intertwined. Anyhow, history showed that in most cases back then the local " hedgedoctor " savvy in the way of herbs and healing was usally also the local Martial Arts master. It was they who paved the way, they used all types of healing practices in order to stay healthy and strong. It never ceases to amaze me all the things that i find in my studies, and just how closely related all things are. > As for qigong, I feel that a really high-level master can get to a > space where each of his actions can be classified a qigong. And I > also feel that even a beginner can strive for this level of > impeccability. Why not do qigong while washing the dishes, rather > than thinking about what you have to do afterwards? that is so true, but i believe you are speaking of another aspect of the training the japanese call it mushin or " no mind " , anyhow the whole " thought process " to that is that with constant practice that a master will unconciously be directing his energy flow. I saw once one of those " energy " healers on Ripleys believe it or not, he would do " energy " massages to his patients, anyhow they used a thermographic sensor to show how " hot " his hands got, and when you saw it literally looked like his arms were glowing, the light would be not as strong where his should was but the closer you got to the hands it looked like they were glowing. Now there is a impressive feat, now granted i realize that you shouldn't believe everything you see in tv, but it still was impressive nonetheless.....and btw, the guy learned it from studying Martial Arts....so you be the judge.... Anyhow i enjoy these posts and have learned a great deal. keep the information flowing Warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 > I have studied martial arts for fifteen years, and from what I can > tell, there is a level of qi, but only available to those who devote > their lives to studying the internal martial arts. Karate and other > hard styles I beleive cannot develop beyond the muscle level. The > four levels being; muscle, bone, qi and yi. But this isn't a martial > arts group, so enough said about that. Anything having to do with TCM healing is allowed and encouraged. It's my understanding that some people are taking martial arts for the health benefits. It's still a small minority of martial arts students, but they exist and the benefits are there. We're limiting ourselves if we think just in terms of herbs or acupuncture/ acupressure when it comes to healing. Please explain more about the 4 levels and what they mean. Keep in mind that there are people on here who are new to both TCM and martial arts. Also, I would like to see more posts on increasing Qi. Personal need to know here. > As for qigong, I feel that a really high-level master can get to a > space where each of his actions can be classified a qigong. And I > also feel that even a beginner can strive for this level of > impeccability. Why not do qigong while washing the dishes, rather > than thinking about what you have to do afterwards? Could you go into more detail here, please? How can a person do gigong while washing dishes? > As for the Liver and Blood. I don't think that the classics meant > that the Blood is literally stored in the Liver (as an individual > organ). But I feel it has more to do with the movement of wood, the > Hun, and the General; which are vital aspects to understanding the > TCM Liver. I often ask myself; " Is my hun consuming my blood in > daydreams, or is my Hun distributing my blood towards my needs? " Note to those new to TCM: TCM Organs are not identical to anatomical organs. TCM Organs are collections of functions. That's why the Organ names in TCM are capitalized - to let readers know that the TCM definition is being used. TCM Organs include not only the functions of the anatomical organs they are named for, but more. The Hun, aka Ethereal Soul, resides in the Liver. Yes, I know the concept and terminology are bizzare and alien to many Westerners, but there are some practical diagnostic and treatment applications. For example, if someone is afraid to go to sleep or has sensations of floating or falling while drifting off to sleep, this points to Liver imbalance, in particular Liver Blood Deficiency and/or Liver Yin Deficiency. The Ethereal Soul also has to do with one's capacity for finding a sense of direction in life. Correct the underlying imbalance, and no more indecision and drifting, no more fear of going to sleep at night, etc. Blaise, please go into more detail about " Is my hun consuming my blood in > daydreams, or is my Hun distributing my blood towards my needs? " > how can we use it practically for health and happiness? This is a good guide in general for posting and also for healing techniques. Is health improving (even slightly) and is the person being helped to live a fuller and happier, more satisfying life? Thanks, Victoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 > I feel very priviledged to be teaching qigong at a couple of senior centers. > Many cannot stand for the entire routine, not yet! Some need to remain > sitting. Some with walkers are trying to stand without the support. All > are doing great. And I am glad to be teaching them a form they can use for > their wellbeing even if they get laid out in bed for awhile. It'll get them > up sooner. Thanks, Deb for sharing info on qigong being used. A lot of Westerners expect healing to be instant and want a " magic bullet " administered by someone else. Often, healing consists of a lot of " little " things that add up. Sometimes these other healing techniques also enable Western medicine to work better. ABC News last night did a piece on ear acupuncture, yoga, etc. being used in some prison programs for spouse abusers, thieves, etc. It makes sense. Anyone aware of the effects of imbalance know that it's a lot easier to change destructive behavior when the imbalance which is helping to fuel it is addressed. Once the Liver is in imbalance - from whatever initial trigger - the person is going to be more inclined to feel anger and frustration. The anger and frustration further damage the Liver which in turn makes the person even more prone to feel anger and frustation (and strike out) which damages the Liver even more, and so on. The program I saw is profiled is taking a multi-prong approach, not only using acupuncture and yoga but group therapy to examine the roots of the violence and destructive behavior. When physical imbalances are being addressed, it's easier to start facing some things in oneself than if the physical problems are being ignore and allowed to build along with the emotions. Victoria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 Thanks, Sue. Healers who work with clients who are extremely debilitated may want to check this book out. I want to say something about visualization exercises. There is a lot of debate about if they work or not. Putting aside the various arguments, at the very least visualization exercises can have a calming influence (takes stress off the adrenals) and allow the person to feel less like a hopeless victim and more in control. The latter can be very important in healing. The toughest healings always involve a person who is excessively passive, feels s/he has no control over his or her life, and either waits for someone to either decide s/he is worth healing and can heal him/her or waits for death. I used visualization in dealing with the chronic mononucleosis (glandular fever). It gave me something to do besides staring at the ceiling and gritting my teeth in frustration (very bad for the Liver). It helped to calm me and enable me to sleep - something a person with mono desperately needs. And I came up with some very entertaining visualizations. Did it work? Something did out of all that I was doing at the time, including the very high dosages of vitamins, minerals, and other supplements. (I didn't know about TCM at the time.) After being told by my doctor I probably would never have another negative mono- spot test and would always have mono, I eventually went into remission. It took a while for this to happen, but it did happen. My energy and ability levels went up. (It was during this time in my life that I was beginning to realize that sometimes a lot of " little " things do add up in healing.) The short-time gain for meditation and visualization for clients not opposed to it and who are willing to give them a try is that at the very least, they are calming and can help the person get the rest s/he needs. (Modern Western medicine has forgotten for the most part about just how necessary adequate rest can be in healing.) As for breathing exercises, some people will be able to feel some slight improvement right away after starting these. Those who are somewhat listening to their bodies may notice some loosening sensations and other sensations. Some particular breathing exercises are not for everyone. There are cautions and contraindications for some breathing exercises just like there are for herbs and acupoints. For example, a person who is prone to anxiety attacks probably should not do a rapid breathing exercise. (It causes oxygen level to rise and carbon dioxide level to fall in the blood, resulting in the paradoxical effect of making the person feel like s/he is smothering and in need of more oxygen when oxygen already is to high and CO2 is too low, which causes the person to breathe even more rapidly which eventually triggers an anxiety attack. Respiratory alkalosis. The solution is to either hold one's breath or breathe into a paper bag. This allows oxygen levels to drop and CO2 levels to rise, and the person no longer feels like s/he is suffocating.) > Roger Jahnke's book, The Healer Within, has several basic qigong > exercises that can be done standing, sitting, or lying down, depending > on physical abilities as well as breathing exercises. Even if you can > only lift a finger slightly while visualizing the exercise, your brain > thinks your body is actually doing it and responds accordingly. This > is why cancer therapy that includes visualizations can be so > effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 If I may jump in here briefly... > > impeccability. Why not do qigong while washing > the dishes, rather > > than thinking about what you have to do > afterwards? > Could you go into more detail here, please? How can > a person do gigong while washing dishes? I believe that the fundamental point behind qigong is natural movement. Movement that is free of pathological restriction as well as free of pathological un-restriction. Washing dishes is an opportunity to feel the dishes, the water, smell the soap, sense the stretch of the tendons, even feel the coursing of the blood and energy, if one would do this enough. It's a chance to feel one's root, knees slightly bent. Ideally, every movement is connected to the breath and intent. Enough from me, bye for now! Hugo Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2002 Report Share Posted October 3, 2002 Thanks, Hugo. Be fully in the moment, not worrying about what happened in the past or might happen in the future? Victoria > I believe that the fundamental point behind qigong is > natural movement. Movement that is free of > pathological restriction as well as free of > pathological un-restriction. > Washing dishes is an opportunity to feel the dishes, > the water, smell the soap, sense the stretch of the > tendons, even feel the coursing of the blood and > energy, if one would do this enough. It's a chance to > feel one's root, knees slightly bent. > Ideally, every movement is connected to the breath > and intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 4, 2002 Report Share Posted October 4, 2002 Wash your dishes in Wu Wei ! It's easier than you may think ! Roberta. - Hugo Ramiro <subincor <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Thursday, October 03, 2002 6:20 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Re: Lets be real > If I may jump in here briefly... > > > > impeccability. Why not do qigong while washing > > the dishes, rather > > > than thinking about what you have to do > > afterwards? > > > Could you go into more detail here, please? How can > > a person do gigong while washing dishes? > > I believe that the fundamental point behind qigong is > natural movement. Movement that is free of > pathological restriction as well as free of > pathological un-restriction. > Washing dishes is an opportunity to feel the dishes, > the water, smell the soap, sense the stretch of the > tendons, even feel the coursing of the blood and > energy, if one would do this enough. It's a chance to > feel one's root, knees slightly bent. > Ideally, every movement is connected to the breath > and intent. > > Enough from me, bye for now! > Hugo > > > > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my. > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2002 Report Share Posted October 7, 2002 Dear Victoria, > >Please explain more about the 4 levels and what they mean. Keep in >mind that there are people on here who are new to both TCM and >martial arts. From my understanding, which is still largly intellectual and not so experiential yet, the four levels of martial/body power are as follows: 1- Muscle level - Once we learn to relax all the tissues and muscles in our bodies, then we can also fire our muscles at will, and all together. Obviously, a punch which is engendered by all the muscles in the body at once, is much more powerful than one done with an arm of stiff muscles. 2- Bone level - This refers to structure. This is achieved after the muscle level is achieved, and uses the natural ideal structure of our skeletal make-up. To achieve this, all the joints in the body must be open. This level of strength does not require muscle, but simply relies on the bones. 3- Qi level - I can't say I fully grasp this level. It somehow works with the relationship of the individual and his/her opponent more so than the individual's physical structure. This level can't break rules of the previous two levels, because those two levels have already been mastered. It is through this level that qi-gong healing, or evil fa-qi <qi emmitance) occurs. 4 Yi level - This is the same yi in the 5 wills (hun, shen, yi, po, zhi). It means sensual interface or awareness, or worldview, etc. This level is an instantaneous subconscious recognition of one's situation, followed by an instantaneous subconscious response to the situation. In a martial sense, the master will perceive into the opponents yi and beyond, and can manipulate it at will. This of course is above and beyond the rational mind. And in a fighting situation can easily lead to death if the master really feels threatened, as his response is instinctual. The above are easier for me to explain in regards to martial arts. But I also feel that the same levels can be used for health. > >Also, I would like to see more posts on increasing Qi. Personal need >to know here. > > > As for qigong, I feel that a really high-level master can get to a > > space where each of his actions can be classified a qigong. And I > > also feel that even a beginner can strive for this level of > > impeccability. Why not do qigong while washing the dishes, rather > > than thinking about what you have to do afterwards? > >Could you go into more detail here, please? Well, that leads me to the question; " What is qigong? " . If " qi " is a relationship between two things. And " gong " is a type of mastery, art, or cultivation. Then it stands to reason that " qigong " is the mastery of relationships, or the art of relating. " How can a person do gigong while washing dishes? " A person can approach it with the awareness of your body, mind and spirit whilst washing the dishes. Ask yourself whether you are physically relaxed? Are you focusing fully upon the task at hand? Are you creating zheng (true) qi between you and the dishes? Or are you creating xie (evil) qi betwen you and the dishes? Or are you creating xie qi between you and the dishes, but your not even aware of it because your creating xie qi within you mind about all kinds of other things? And then you cut yourself on a knife, and get angry and the xie qi become so much more obvious. So qigong is not just about standing around doing weird and slow movements with your body. We are all-ways cultivating qi. But what kind of qi are we cultivating in the present? Evil qi, or true qi? Do our actions bring us down, or do they uplift us? > >Blaise, please go into more detail about " Is my hun consuming my >blood in > > daydreams, or is my Hun distributing my blood towards my needs? " > > > how can we use it practically for health and happiness? From my understanding the hun is the planning and scheming parts of the mind. But due to social conditioning, the yi (sensual interface with the world) gets clouded, or prejudiced, and causes the hun to go off on tangents, with no basis in objective reality. My teacher described it in a good way. A man goes to a store and the woman at the till had something in her eye and winks. The man thinks (due to his yi) that she likes him. His hun then goes on a scheming and planning tangent and starts dressing nicer when he goes to the store, and starts thinking about asking her out, and a wedding, kids, etc. You get the picture, I'm sure we can all relate with this aspect of the hun. The hun is that part of ourselves which figures out what we need to do in order to get somewhere or something. It's stored by the Liver, and is the nurturer and dreamer. So if our yi is clear, open and unprejudiced, then our hun can focus more upon our innate aspirations, which is it's prediliction. Obviously the first part of using these models in our lives for self-cultivation, is to cultivate and objective perception (dust the yi). To start to listen to that little cautious voice in our heads, which sounds like our mothers. And then to uncover those conceptions which keep us from experiencing the thrill of living, which lie deep in our yi. Then we must face that fear and awkwardness of letting go of comfortableness and stepping into the unknown. Another good way to look at it is by " cleaning the dead wood " . How many half-completed projects do you have lying around? How many loose ends are there in your life? The General's (hun/Liver) desire is to throw those out, or complete them, so that new wood can grow. If a field is filled with stumps, not much can grow again. I hope this helps. Blaise _______________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 --- victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: > Thanks, Hugo. Be fully in the moment, not worrying > about what > happened in the past or might happen in the future? Yeah, something like that. So often I find myself tensing up for no reason, when I should just do whatever I am doing in a relaxed fashion, know what I mean? Hugo Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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