An interesting discovery on Chinese theories (Semi OT)

[Guest guest]

I was trying to understand the relationship between various Chinese

cycles, (I seemed to be doing well until I hit the five phases, where

I completely fell apart) and I drew this picture (

http://www.geocities.com/technosoverkill ). After looking at it for a

while, I realized that everything was two off! In practice, pure Yang

and pure Yin properties don't exist on the world. At the utmost

extreme, the ability to transform Yin into Yang, and Yang into Yin

would cease, and nothing can survive in such conditions. (Symbolized

by the white and black dots in the new taiji [yinyang] symbol).

Therefore, when people talk of Yin and Yang in a practical sense,

they are probably talking about Shao Yang (mostly yang?) and Shao Yin

(mostly yin).

 

Does this make sense, or have I simply jumped to conclusions based on

incorrect understanding??

 

The reason I posted this as semi Off Topic is because I really can't

think of any way that this relates practically to TCM. I just thought

it was a kinda interesting idea.

 

Mbanu

[Guest guest]

Pure Yang, does not exist in this world, that would be(I guess)

pre-heaven. Pure Yin(like pure yang) is a static condition, it's

earth, but static, no yang to move things: death. As for the five

elements, it's the Taiji symbol all right; there's always a yang

inside the yin and yin inside the yang.

Marcos

 

>--- walmart_hurts <jcc escreveu: > I was trying

>to understand the relationship between various Chinese

>cycles, (, I realized that everything was two off! In practice,

>pure Yang and pure Yin properties don't exist on the world. At

>the utmost extreme, the ability to transform Yin into Yang, and

>Yang into Yin would cease, and nothing can survive in such

>conditions. (Symbolized by the white and black dots in the new

>taiji [yinyang] symbol). Therefore, when people talk of Yin and

>Yang in a practical sense, they are probably talking about Shao

>Yang (mostly yang?) and Shao Yin (mostly yin). Does this make

>sense, or have I simply jumped to conclusions based on incorrect

>understanding?

>Mbanu

 

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[Guest guest]

Yang / Yin is easier to understand as the concept of light and shadow.

One cannot be without the other. Without Light, no Shadow. Without Shadow,

no Light (without anything to intercept the light and project a shadow,

there is no light)

From this you can generalize. Yang is about doing and acting. Yin is

about being. Yang is a male activity, Yin is a female way. Yang is about

teaching, Yin is about nurturing... Man has to prove himself to the world

by acting, woman has nothing to prove: once she reaches puberty and is

able to bear child, she IS a woman (read Joseph Campbell). Think about

this the next time you have a problem interacting with a lady. By the way,

this is the reason why more men than women post on this list - or any other

list.

There is no such things as pure yin or pure yang - these are just concepts

- they are useful tools to explain how the mind operates or grasps reality,

but they only are tools. They are just fingers pointing to the moon, they

are not the moon. Still, they are very useful tools, like the concepts

of - and + poles of the magnet.

Going back to TCM, Yang is more about the short term, and Yin about

the long term. Of course, obviously the short influences the long. How

does the long term influence the short term ? I do not know. If you have

any idea, they are welcome.

Frederic

 

 

 

 

marcos lacerda wrote:

Pure Yang, does not exist in this world,

that would be(I guess)

pre-heaven. Pure Yin(like pure yang) is a static condition, it's

earth, but static, no yang to move things: death. As for the five

elements, it's the Taiji symbol all right; there's always a yang

inside the yin and yin inside the yang.

Marcos

>--- walmart_hurts <jcc escreveu: > I was trying

>to understand the relationship between various Chinese

>cycles, (, I realized that everything was two off! In practice,

>pure Yang and pure Yin properties don't exist on the world. At

>the utmost extreme, the ability to transform Yin into Yang, and

>Yang into Yin would cease, and nothing can survive in such

>conditions. (Symbolized by the white and black dots in the new

>taiji [yinyang] symbol). Therefore, when people talk of Yin and

>Yang in a practical sense, they are probably talking about Shao

>Yang (mostly yang?) and Shao Yin (mostly yin). Does this make

>sense, or have I simply jumped to conclusions based on incorrect

>understanding?

>Mbanu

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[Guest guest]

hmm, you speak of these things outside of what the actual concept was

created for. The whole aspect of yin/yang lies in the sense of

explaining the balance in things. Even in cases where one would

outweigh the other, they would still hold an aspect of each other

even if it is infintesimal. The symbol itself comes from the I-Ching

and is a very toaistic concept, although the idea is not exclusive to

the chinese, it has its strongest roots there. As per the original

question i believe you may be correct.....from a certain point of

view.......

 

Warrior

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, marcos lacerda <ishk18> wrote:

> Pure Yang, does not exist in this world, that would be(I guess)

> pre-heaven. Pure Yin(like pure yang) is a static condition, it's

> earth, but static, no yang to move things: death. As for the five

> elements, it's the Taiji symbol all right; there's always a yang

> inside the yin and yin inside the yang.

> Marcos

>

> >--- walmart_hurts <jcc@c...> escreveu: > I was trying

> >to understand the relationship between various Chinese

> >cycles, (, I realized that everything was two off! In practice,

> >pure Yang and pure Yin properties don't exist on the world. At

> >the utmost extreme, the ability to transform Yin into Yang, and

> >Yang into Yin would cease, and nothing can survive in such

> >conditions. (Symbolized by the white and black dots in the new

> >taiji [yinyang] symbol). Therefore, when people talk of Yin and

> >Yang in a practical sense, they are probably talking about Shao

> >Yang (mostly yang?) and Shao Yin (mostly yin). Does this make

> >sense, or have I simply jumped to conclusions based on incorrect

> >understanding?

> >Mbanu

>

>

____________________

_

> GeoCities

> Tudo para criar o seu site: ferramentas fáceis de usar, espaço de

sobra e acessórios.

> http://br.geocities./

[Guest guest]

Your looking for something that doesn't exist in realtime

grasshopper its the old zen concept of trying to understand

something that defies explanation......according the most basic

theories everything effects everything else.....there is the

relationship theory in a nutshell.....as musashi once said " you must

think on this deeply " .....

 

Warrior

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, " walmart_hurts " <jcc@c...> wrote:

> I was trying to understand the relationship between various Chinese

> cycles, (I seemed to be doing well until I hit the five phases,

where

> I completely fell apart) and I drew this picture (

> http://www.geocities.com/technosoverkill ). After looking at it for

a

> while, I realized that everything was two off! In practice, pure

Yang

> and pure Yin properties don't exist on the world. At the utmost

> extreme, the ability to transform Yin into Yang, and Yang into Yin

> would cease, and nothing can survive in such conditions.

(Symbolized

> by the white and black dots in the new taiji [yinyang] symbol).

> Therefore, when people talk of Yin and Yang in a practical sense,

> they are probably talking about Shao Yang (mostly yang?) and Shao

Yin

> (mostly yin).

>

> Does this make sense, or have I simply jumped to conclusions based

on

> incorrect understanding??

>

> The reason I posted this as semi Off Topic is because I really

can't

> think of any way that this relates practically to TCM. I just

thought

> it was a kinda interesting idea.

>

> Mbanu

[Guest guest]

> Going back to TCM, Yang is more about the short term, and Yin about

the

> long term. Of course, obviously the short influences the long. How

does

> the long term influence the short term ? I do not know. If you have

any

> idea, they are welcome.

>

> Frederic

>

 

One example, one's past experiences in a matter (yin/longterm)

modifies one's current decisions (yang/shortterm).

 

Mbanu

[Guest guest]

Hello,

 

 

The Chinese never wrote yin " and " yang, they always wrote yinyang.

From my notes: " Yinyang are two polar, and complementary aspects describing

a singular whole. "

 

 

Blaise

 

 

>frederic <fredlecut

>Chinese Traditional Medicine

>Chinese Traditional Medicine

>Re: Fwd: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] An interesting discovery on Chinese

>theories (Semi OT)

>Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:28:28 -0500

>

>Yang / Yin is easier to understand as the concept of light and shadow.

>One cannot be without the other. Without Light, no Shadow. Without

>Shadow, no Light (without anything to intercept the light and project a

>shadow, there is no light)

>

>From this you can generalize. Yang is about doing and acting. Yin is

>about being. Yang is a male activity, Yin is a female way. Yang is about

>teaching, Yin is about nurturing... Man has to prove himself to the

>world by acting, woman has nothing to prove: once she reaches puberty

>and is able to bear child, she IS a woman (read Joseph Campbell). Think

>about this the next time you have a problem interacting with a lady. By

>the way, this is the reason why more men than women post on this list -

>or any other list.

>

>There is no such things as pure yin or pure yang - these are just

>concepts - they are useful tools to explain how the mind operates or

>grasps reality, but they only are tools. They are just fingers pointing

>to the moon, they are not the moon. Still, they are very useful tools,

>like the concepts of - and + poles of the magnet.

>

>Going back to TCM, Yang is more about the short term, and Yin about the

>long term. Of course, obviously the short influences the long. How does

>the long term influence the short term ? I do not know. If you have any

>idea, they are welcome.

>

>Frederic

>

>

>

>

>

>marcos lacerda wrote:

>

> > Pure Yang, does not exist in this world, that would be(I guess)

> > pre-heaven. Pure Yin(like pure yang) is a static condition, it's

> > earth, but static, no yang to move things: death. As for the five

> > elements, it's the Taiji symbol all right; there's always a yang

> > inside the yin and yin inside the yang.

> > Marcos

> >

> > >--- walmart_hurts <jcc escreveu: > I was trying

> > >to understand the relationship between various Chinese

> > >cycles, (, I realized that everything was two off! In practice,

> > >pure Yang and pure Yin properties don't exist on the world. At

> > >the utmost extreme, the ability to transform Yin into Yang, and

> > >Yang into Yin would cease, and nothing can survive in such

> > >conditions. (Symbolized by the white and black dots in the new

> > >taiji [yinyang] symbol). Therefore, when people talk of Yin and

> > >Yang in a practical sense, they are probably talking about Shao

> > >Yang (mostly yang?) and Shao Yin (mostly yin). Does this make

> > >sense, or have I simply jumped to conclusions based on incorrect

> > >understanding?

> > >Mbanu

> >

> >

> > ____________________

> >

> > GeoCities

> > Tudo para criar o seu site: ferramentas fáceis de usar, espaço de

> > sobra e acessórios.

> > http://br.geocities./

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

???? really?? its difficult at best to translate from chinese to

english, some of the words that exist in the english language do not

have context in chinese, for instance..without proper understanding

of conditioning excercises one would mistake that you can use sand to

condition your hands, in chinese language however the word or symbol

for sand and rock were the same.....now traditionally only rock was

used as one of the materials for conditioning, sand was NEVER used,

however due to lack of experience, or due to misinterpretation some

instructors thought that somewhere in the development phase that sand

was introduced as one of the materials, when traditionally that was

never the fact....so i would be careful when saying that the NEVER

wrote yin/yang you could perhaps be right, and perhaps be wrong, i

for instance write it yin/yang because i am describing two equally

different and equally similar principles......and as mushashi once

wrote : " you should ponder this deeply " ......

 

Warrior

 

Chinese Traditional Medicine, " Blaise T. Ryan " <blaiseryan@h...> wrote:

> Hello,

>

>

> The Chinese never wrote yin " and " yang, they always wrote yinyang.

> From my notes: " Yinyang are two polar, and complementary aspects

describing

> a singular whole. "

>

>

> Blaise

>

>

> >frederic <fredlecut@e...>

> >Chinese Traditional Medicine

> >Chinese Traditional Medicine

> >Re: Fwd: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] An interesting discovery on

Chinese

> >theories (Semi OT)

> >Tue, 17 Sep 2002 22:28:28 -0500

> >

> >Yang / Yin is easier to understand as the concept of light and

shadow.

> >One cannot be without the other. Without Light, no Shadow. Without

> >Shadow, no Light (without anything to intercept the light and

project a

> >shadow, there is no light)

> >

> >From this you can generalize. Yang is about doing and acting. Yin

is

> >about being. Yang is a male activity, Yin is a female way. Yang is

about

> >teaching, Yin is about nurturing... Man has to prove himself to the

> >world by acting, woman has nothing to prove: once she reaches

puberty

> >and is able to bear child, she IS a woman (read Joseph Campbell).

Think

> >about this the next time you have a problem interacting with a

lady. By

> >the way, this is the reason why more men than women post on this

list -

> >or any other list.

> >

> >There is no such things as pure yin or pure yang - these are just

> >concepts - they are useful tools to explain how the mind operates

or

> >grasps reality, but they only are tools. They are just fingers

pointing

> >to the moon, they are not the moon. Still, they are very useful

tools,

> >like the concepts of - and + poles of the magnet.

> >

> >Going back to TCM, Yang is more about the short term, and Yin

about the

> >long term. Of course, obviously the short influences the long. How

does

> >the long term influence the short term ? I do not know. If you

have any

> >idea, they are welcome.

> >

> >Frederic

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >marcos lacerda wrote:

> >

> > > Pure Yang, does not exist in this world, that would be(I guess)

> > > pre-heaven. Pure Yin(like pure yang) is a static condition, it's

> > > earth, but static, no yang to move things: death. As for the

five

> > > elements, it's the Taiji symbol all right; there's always a yang

> > > inside the yin and yin inside the yang.

> > > Marcos

> > >

> > > >--- walmart_hurts <jcc@c...> escreveu: > I was trying

> > > >to understand the relationship between various Chinese

> > > >cycles, (, I realized that everything was two off! In practice,

> > > >pure Yang and pure Yin properties don't exist on the world. At

> > > >the utmost extreme, the ability to transform Yin into Yang, and

> > > >Yang into Yin would cease, and nothing can survive in such

> > > >conditions. (Symbolized by the white and black dots in the new

> > > >taiji [yinyang] symbol). Therefore, when people talk of Yin and

> > > >Yang in a practical sense, they are probably talking about Shao

> > > >Yang (mostly yang?) and Shao Yin (mostly yin). Does this make

> > > >sense, or have I simply jumped to conclusions based on

incorrect

> > > >understanding?

> > > >Mbanu

> > >

> > >

> > >

____________________

> > >

> > > GeoCities

> > > Tudo para criar o seu site: ferramentas fáceis de usar, espaço

de

> > > sobra e acessórios.

> > > http://br.geocities./

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

>From this you can generalize. Yang is about doing and acting. Yin is

>about being. Yang is a male activity, Yin is a female way. Yang is about

>teaching, Yin is about nurturing... Man has to prove himself to the

>world by acting, woman has nothing to prove: once she reaches puberty

>and is able to bear child, she IS a woman (read Joseph Campbell). Think

>about this the next time you have a problem interacting with a lady. By

>the way, this is the reason why more men than women post on this list -

>or any other list.

 

Frederic, the vast majority of posts on Chinese Traditional Medicine were made by me, a

woman. A Yang Deficient woman at that.

 

Yin and Yang from a TCM standpoint: Yin cools, calms, and moistens. Yang

heats, activates, and dries.

 

>There is no such things as pure yin or pure yang - these are just

>concepts - they are useful tools to explain how the mind operates or

>grasps reality, but they only are tools. They are just fingers pointing

>to the moon, they are not the moon. Still, they are very useful tools,

>like the concepts of - and + poles of the magnet.

 

One of the most important concepts in TCM is that when an extreme is

reached, the extreme will start to change into its opposite. One example:

A person who suffers from Dampness (Yin). In time, if untreated, the

Dampness will congel into Phlegm, blocking Fluids (and Qi). Heat (Yang)

will start to develop. Dryness (Yang) may start to develop in areas that

moisture cannot get to.

 

There are two conditions - False Heat/ True Cold and False Cold/ True Heat -

that usually are seen only in extreme cases. The reddish tones in the face

(like a dusting of powder) of False Heat/ True Cold is caused by what little

Yang there is " floating " . Similar to this is a red tongue (usually a sign

of Heat) in cases of Yang collapse caused by the last of the Yang not being

anchored and " floating " .

 

This idea of extremes starting to change into their opposites if the

imbalance goes on long enough and is severe enough often is one of the most

difficult TCM concepts for Westerners to grasp. How can a person be both

Damp and Dry at the same time? It happens. Most people have less trouble

with the concept of a person being hot and cold at the same time because

most people have experienced fever with chills at some point in their lives.

 

Something else to keep in mind is that in Chinese thought, including TCM,

everything is relative. In many text books you'll read the description that

the back of the body is Yang in relation to the front, which is Yin in

relation to the back. The head is Yang in relation to the feet, which are

Yin in relation to the head. The surface of the body is Yang in relation to

the Interior, which is Yin in relation to the surface. Blood is Yin in

relation to Qi, which is Yang in relation to Blood. Etc.

 

Physical reality (a matrix) is Yin in relation to ideas, which are Yang when

compared to the physical. Death is Yin compared to life, which is Yang when

compared to death. (In TCM, Yang Heat is recognized as speeding things up -

pulse, body movements, speech, etc. Yin Cold slows things down.) You'll

see Organs (and meridians) described as " the most Yang of the Yin Organs.

It's all relative.

 

BTW, for the students on the list: Some of you will one day take exams

where if you don't specify things like the front of the body being Yin when

compared to the back, points will be taken off. This relativity is an

important component of Chinese thinking.

>

>Going back to TCM, Yang is more about the short term, and Yin about the

>long term. Of course, obviously the short influences the long. How does

>the long term influence the short term ? I do not know. If you have any

>idea, they are welcome.

 

When people look ahead and realize that if they don't change course, they

are going to run into problems later on, and they make changes accordingly.

They may or may not stick to those short-term resolutions, but thoughts of

the long term have resulted in short term changes.

 

I've never heard of Yin being long term and Yang being short term, just slow

and rapid.

 

Victoria

 

 

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