Other important Ayurveda concepts vs. TCM...

[Guest guest]

Some things about Ayurveda that cause problems with TCM:

 

Use of dairy products. " Ghee " , clarified butter, is highly valued in

Ayurveda for most people except for extreme Pitta types. It is

considered the best way to increase the " Agni " or, " digestive fire " in

order to stimulate proper digestion and the metabolism of harmful

substances. Dairy products are recommended to increase cold/damp

elements whereas TCM seems to avoid dairy for most things. There is

also a strong classification and great priority given to the " amas " or,

body toxins, and the " Ojas " or, translated to something like " Pure

nutrients " , meaning, the final by-product, the very essence of what is

drawn from food. Beans are also contraindicted for people with dryness

problems, (I _had_ to stop taking them when I had gas) whereas TCM

considers beans the " Water " grain. Ayurveda is also not as extremely

concerned with prana (Qi) flow among organs caused by diet, it goes

right to the cold/hot/dry/moist nature of foods. I would be very

grateful if someone found prana information in Ayurveda.

 

Most notably, Ayurveda does not share the same flavor/element

relationship. There are 6 flavors, (Sweet, salty, sour, bitter,

astringent, pungent)

 

Wood (Ether) - bitter, astringent

 

Air - pungent, bitter, astringent

 

Fire - pungent, sour

 

Water - sweet, salty

 

Earth - Sweet, sour astringent

 

 

Anyway, I thought that I should pay more attention to Qi because as you

can see, if you're diagnosed as having too much Vata (Air/Ether) and

too much Kapha (Earth/Water), there's not much you can stricylu avoid

and liberally take without upsetting one or the other. Hence I was

jumping from too much gas and anxiety to having nausea, infrequent

bowels, slow digestion and sluggishness on waking in the morning.

 

TCM takes the seasons into account more readily and the organ energies

which is what I think I need, whereas Ayurveda provides a much more

physically obvious diagnosis such as eye color, fingernail/lip/skin/

hair texture, emotional diagnosis, etc. etc., none of which I fit into

entirely. Let me say, I WAS getting the predicted effects, but it was

an overdosage. In short, I would really recommend an experienced

diagnosis for Ayurvedic medicine since it doesn't deal as specifically

with exactly which organs are involved with which diseases.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 04/03/2002 11:10:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,

lr4444lr writes:

 

<< Some things about Ayurveda that cause problems with TCM:

 

Look for similarities .... not differences. In other words, focus on what

can be gained by utilizing both where one can ... rather than on where they

appear to conflict.

 

<< Use of dairy products. " Ghee " , clarified butter, is highly valued in

Ayurveda for most people except for extreme Pitta types. It is considered the

best way to increase the " Agni " or, " digestive fire " in order to stimulate

proper digestion and the metabolism of harmful substances.

 

My understanding is that ghee doesn't create the problems that most oils can

because it's cooling rather than heating .... yet strengthening to digestion

because it is a fat. Both Pittas and Kaphas need to restrict fat intake

since both are oily in nature, Kaphas moreso since " fat " increases substance.

Fat is a Yin food in this sense. Because Pitta is Heat ... ghee is more

suitable for Pitta types because of its cooling nature.

 

<< Dairy products are recommended to increase cold/damp elements whereas TCM

seems to avoid dairy for most things.

 

TCM " seems " to avoid dairy for most things only because dairy creates alot of

moisture ... which inevitably stresses the digestive process. TCM utilizes

dairy when one is in good health, but not when digestion has weakened.

 

<< Beans are also contraindicted for people with dryness problems, (I _had_

to stop taking them when I had gas) whereas TCM considers beans the " Water "

grain.

 

Beans are diuretic and therefore not recommended for Vatas due to the dry

nature of the body type and lack of substance. The Water Element in TCM is

cold and damp. It contains both Yin and Yang yet ... when someone has a

strong natural affinity to this element ... they have more water in their

tissues. Water is cold. Water is wet. Therefore ... beans regulate Water

by decreasing what is overabundant. Beans are highly recommended for Kaphas

because of this as well. Kapha is a mix of Earth and Water .... Earth is

also Damp.

 

<< Ayurveda is also not as extremely concerned with prana (Qi) flow among

organs caused by diet, it goes right to the cold/hot/dry/moist nature of

foods. I would be very

grateful if someone found prana information in Ayurveda.

 

I have never seen this addressed either .... but ... by addressing the issues

of hot/cold/damp/dry .... the Qi can be restored to a smooth flow. Heat can

create Stagnation .... Dryness can create Heat which can cause Stagnation ...

Cold creates Stagnation .... and Damp creates Stagnation.

 

<< Anyway, I thought that I should pay more attention to Qi because as you

can see, if you're diagnosed as having too much Vata (Air/Ether) and

too much Kapha (Earth/Water), there's not much you can stricylu avoid

and liberally take without upsetting one or the other. Hence I was

jumping from too much gas and anxiety to having nausea, infrequent

bowels, slow digestion and sluggishness on waking in the morning.

 

Meet in the middle. As you stated ... " there's not much you can strictly

avoid and liberally take " .

 

<< TCM takes the seasons into account more readily and the organ energies

which is what I think I need,

 

Ayurvedic diet recommendations change according to season for all of the body

types. Even myself as a very strong Vata ... am much more prone to the same

symptoms you are experiencing during Kapha season along with late summer when

the Earth energies peak. I still follow a Vata diet ... yet I adjust

slightly being careful not to overdo sweet moistening foods during these

months. Mixed types like Vata/Kaphas as you are .... would favor pacifying

Kapha from December through April and favor pacifying Vata from may though

November. Not eating a completely Vata or Kapha diet in each season .... but

favoring them ..... adjusting slightly.

 

<< whereas Ayurveda provides a much more physically obvious diagnosis such as

eye color, fingernail/lip/skin/hair texture, emotional diagnosis, etc. etc.,

none of which I fit into entirely.

 

This is exactly where I have found Ayurveda to be so very helpful. By

understanding ones constitution by how the elements manifest themselves in

physical traits, natural tendencies, symptoms of imbalance etc ... we can

fine tune strategies and treatments to meet the individual needs more

effectively. No one will ever fit neatly into a mold of " type " but it need

not be as confusing as it appears. Constitution will be reflected in

physical characteristics and natural tendencies (like whether a person has a

love of the arts or a love of accounting). Imbalance will be reflected in

symptoms of disease and things that change (like weight, moods, sleeping

habits etc etc). It's very easy to get the two confused (constitution and

imbalance) if is not viewed in these terms.

 

Lynn

[Guest guest]

><< Dairy products are recommended to increase cold/damp elements whereas

>TCM

>seems to avoid dairy for most things.

>

>TCM " seems " to avoid dairy for most things only because dairy creates alot

>of

>moisture ... which inevitably stresses the digestive process. TCM utilizes

>dairy when one is in good health, but not when digestion has weakened.

 

Good points.

 

There are some cases where dairy can be beneficial for an individual.

 

I want to remind readers who are new to TCM that there are few if any foods

which are " forbidden " for all individuals at all times. Even sugar has some

uses. You will see formulas in which sugar is one of the ingredients. Just

like some Kidney formulas call for them to be taken with salt in order to

increase its effectiveness.

 

It depends on the individual and what imbalances the person has. Someone

with a weak Spleen who has Dampness problems should severely limit or stay

away from dairy all together. On the other hand, if a person is too Dry,

because dairy is moistening, dairy can be helpful in SOME of these cases.

If the person is both too Cold and Damp, dairy can create some severe

problems.

 

Something else to consider is the form of the dairy. Most Chinese - like

most people in the world - lack the enzyme to digest milk sugar. So milk is

not a good food for these people. But, yogurt and most cheeses do not

contain lactose (milk sugar) and can be eaten.

 

How much dairy is also a factor. Some people do very well with limited

amounts of dairy whereas more dairy would become destructive.

 

Diet needs also change. I went through a period for many years during which

I could not eat any dairy in any form. This year I discovered that not only

could I eat some dairy (cheese and yogurt), the reintroduction of these

foods in limited amounts were helping me. I don't dare drink a class of

milk, but having pizza or yogurt occasionally is beneficial.

 

After we get moved, one of the things I want to look at in more detail is

the relationship between Yin and Yang and how each needs the other for

optimal functioning.

 

Some additional information on problems with dairy from a Western

standpoint: Milk intolerance is the term for a person who lacks the enzyme

to digest milk sugar. Most of the adults of the world lack this enzyme.

The exception is people of northern European descent. Even among them,

there are a lot of individuals who lack this enzyme. People who are lactose

intolerant usually can digest cheese and yogurt.

 

But, people who are allergic to milk protein and/or milk fat have problems

with ALL dairy, including cheese and yogurt.

 

For some strange reason, most pills manufactured in the U.S. use lactose as

a filler/binder - even the pills for digestive system problems even though

digestive system problems often are due to problems with milk! If a person

has a very severe problem with milk in all forms, even the tiny amount

contained in a pill can create big problems for the person. For this

reason, some people with severe problems with milk may need to switch to a

form of medication which does not contain any milk sugar - liquids,

injections, patches, or suppositories.

 

Medications do list inert ingredients on the package. However, many

pharmacies use pill dispensing machines and buy generic medications from

different companies. Some of these companies use lactose in the pills they

make whereas others do not. All of these pills go into the same dispenser,

and after they are mixed, it's impossible to tell which are the ones with

lactose and which are not. Also, in the U.S., it often is hard to find a

pharmacist who is willing to work with a person who has severe problems with

milk in all forms, even the little bit of lactose contained in a pill. (I

don't know about other countries.)

 

Sometimes milk " allergies " are not true allergies at all but the result of

Dampness. The person's lungs may become congested after s/he consumes dairy

not because of an allergic reaction in which histamine is being released and

inflammation and swelling result but because dairy is Dampness-engendering.

The same comments apply to wheat. In some cases the person may have a real

allergy to milk plus have Dampness problems.

 

People with severe intolerances/ allergies to dairy and/or severe Dampness

problems can be bothered greatly by just a little bit of dairy in any form -

the small amount in some pills or prepared foods that use just a little bit

of dairy. In prepared, packaged foods, " hidden " milk can be present. The

package lists the ingredients in the food but does not list the ingredients

in the ingredients. One of the foods milk can be hidden in is margarine.

Some margarines are made with milk, some are not. When the package says

" margarine " , it's impossible to know if the margarine was made with milk or

without. Margarine is not a good food for a lot of reasons. It turns out

that butter actually is a much safer food than margarine. (Additinal info

on the health hazzards of margarine can be found on Dr. Mercola's website.)

 

Victoria

 

 

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