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Spleen v.s. Painful Shoulder

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High,

 

I found in a book about physical exercises oriented on TCM meridians an

assertion saying that, sometimes, a painful shoulder (caused by shoulder

articulation deformation) can be linked with Spleen disharmony.

 

The only explanation I find is that a weak Spleen will probably imply a kind

of Kidneys weakness (probably Yin Deficiency caused by a Spleen Yang

Deficiency ???); in such a way Kidneys can not provide enough substance (Yin)

for the bones. It's just a thought of someone really new in this field.

 

Do you now something more about that ?

 

Thanks,

Bogdan

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Hi Bogdan,

" articulation deformation " is that like bone spurs...in

the shoulder?! ....or

calcium deposits? I've never heard of it, personally. I think

of painful

shoulder as being related to muscles and ligaments ( & tendons?). That

 

would be related to LIV. (Also, exogenous factors) And, they are not

being

properly nourished by the Blood. If you're talking about meridians,

it is

the SI, SJ, LI channels that go through the shoulder. The LI being

important because it is a

Yangming channel abundant in Qi and Blood. Specific useful points

 

would be LI-14, SJ-14 & SI-10 (also ST-38). I don't think of

the SP necessarily

unless there is a Damp problem....which actually there probably is.

Bi Syndrome = pain = Wind, Damp, Cold or Wind, Damp, Heat.

Guess this is a jumping off point....there's alot of info you might

want to look up further. LOL-Kit

PS. Kidney usually shows up as weak, sore knees.

 

 

 

At 12:01 PM 3/21/02 +0200, you wrote:

High,

 

I found in a book about physical exercises oriented on TCM meridians an

 

assertion saying that, sometimes, a painful shoulder (caused by shoulder

 

articulation deformation) can be linked with Spleen disharmony.

 

The only explanation I find is that a weak Spleen will probably imply a

kind

of Kidneys weakness (probably Yin Deficiency caused by a Spleen Yang

 

Deficiency ???); in such a way Kidneys can not provide enough substance

(Yin)

for the bones. It's just a thought of someone really new in this

field.

 

Do you now something more about that ?

 

Thanks,

Bogdan

 

 

 

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Bogdan Andone wrote:

>

> High,

>

> I found in a book about physical exercises oriented on TCM meridians an

> assertion saying that, sometimes, a painful shoulder (caused by shoulder

> articulation deformation) can be linked with Spleen disharmony.

>

> The only explanation I find is that a weak Spleen will probably imply a kind

> of Kidneys weakness (probably Yin Deficiency caused by a Spleen Yang

> Deficiency ???); in such a way Kidneys can not provide enough substance (Yin)

> for the bones. It's just a thought of someone really new in this field.

 

I think that your book is suggesting that if your digestion isn't

working well, the fluids for the joints can become deficient. So the

order might look more like a Spleen Qi deficiency leading to a Yin

deficiency of the Kidney and then the Liver. Liver Yin lubricates the joints.

 

Another possibility, and actually one that I suspect is more plausable

is that dampness arises from a weak Spleen. Should the digestion be

inefficient, dampness can accumulate in the body. This internal dampness

doesn't usually end up in the joints, but dampness from the exterior

environment can enter into the joints causing a wide variety of

arthritic conditions, specifically those that are aggravated by damp

weather. Even with the external type of dampness, a Spleen deficiency

of some sort is often times assumed and even part of the acupuncture

treatment principle for damp bi syndromes. (Bi means pain, damp bi

means pain due to dampness in the channels)

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

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Thanks Al,

 

In fact, the western medicine diagnostic for this kind of frozen shoulder was

" scapulo-humeral periarthritis " .

 

Talking about myself, I have some signs of Spleen Qi

Deficiency (no appetite, loose stools, tiredness) and a kind of

constant and dumb pain into the right shoulder, but I never made the

connection. I was thinking that the cause is sleeping almost on the

right side or a bad position at work (when my right hand handles a

PC mouse many hours daily). As a plus, I discovered that some bones

on the right back shoulder (I don't know the anatomical names) are not in the

same position/shape as the left ones.

 

Bogdan

 

> I think that your book is suggesting that if your digestion isn't

> working well, the fluids for the joints can become deficient. So the

> order might look more like a Spleen Qi deficiency leading to a Yin

> deficiency of the Kidney and then the Liver. Liver Yin lubricates the

> joints.

>

> Another possibility, and actually one that I suspect is more plausable

> is that dampness arises from a weak Spleen. Should the digestion be

> inefficient, dampness can accumulate in the body. This internal dampness

> doesn't usually end up in the joints, but dampness from the exterior

> environment can enter into the joints causing a wide variety of

> arthritic conditions, specifically those that are aggravated by damp

> weather. Even with the external type of dampness, a Spleen deficiency

> of some sort is often times assumed and even part of the acupuncture

> treatment principle for damp bi syndromes. (Bi means pain, damp bi

> means pain due to dampness in the channels)

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Here's more on the two concepts of periarthritis of the shoulder:

http://Acupuncture.com/Clinical/Shoulder.htm

http://Acupuncture.com/Clinical/Bi.htm

 

Bogdan Andone wrote:

>

> Thanks Al,

>

> In fact, the western medicine diagnostic for this kind of frozen shoulder was

> " scapulo-humeral periarthritis " .

>

> Talking about myself, I have some signs of Spleen Qi

> Deficiency (no appetite, loose stools, tiredness) and a kind of

> constant and dumb pain into the right shoulder, but I never made the

> connection. I was thinking that the cause is sleeping almost on the

> right side or a bad position at work (when my right hand handles a

> PC mouse many hours daily). As a plus, I discovered that some bones

> on the right back shoulder (I don't know the anatomical names) are not in the

> same position/shape as the left ones.

>

> Bogdan

>

> > I think that your book is suggesting that if your digestion isn't

> > working well, the fluids for the joints can become deficient. So the

> > order might look more like a Spleen Qi deficiency leading to a Yin

> > deficiency of the Kidney and then the Liver. Liver Yin lubricates the

> > joints.

> >

> > Another possibility, and actually one that I suspect is more plausable

> > is that dampness arises from a weak Spleen. Should the digestion be

> > inefficient, dampness can accumulate in the body. This internal dampness

> > doesn't usually end up in the joints, but dampness from the exterior

> > environment can enter into the joints causing a wide variety of

> > arthritic conditions, specifically those that are aggravated by damp

> > weather. Even with the external type of dampness, a Spleen deficiency

> > of some sort is often times assumed and even part of the acupuncture

> > treatment principle for damp bi syndromes. (Bi means pain, damp bi

> > means pain due to dampness in the channels)

>

>

>

> Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine

> Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine-

> List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner

>

> Shortcut URL to this page:

> /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine

>

>

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> Here's more on the two concepts of periarthritis of the shoulder:

> http://Acupuncture.com/Clinical/Shoulder.htm

> http://Acupuncture.com/Clinical/Bi.htm

 

Thanks, Al.

 

I find the concept of Skin Bi especially interesting.

 

" Skin Bi

Numbness of the skin (sometimes with associated with a sensation of

cold), neuritis of lateral cutaneous nerve of the thigh. "

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