Guest guest Posted September 6, 2001 Report Share Posted September 6, 2001 I am doing some TCM research and came acroos a reference for internal and ecternal Dragons. Does anyone know what these are. Is it the flow of Internal and External chi? Thanks MIke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 6, 2001 Report Share Posted September 6, 2001 Mike Here is your answer on the dragons. Internal and External Dragons Causes: Taking over of ones mind or spirit by another. Trauma DrugTaking VariousMeditative mystical or mind altering practices which a person is unprepared. Internalobsessions (constant worry, fear or impending doom InternalCompulsions (such as OCD) Diagnosed when the person is unreachable. Others are unable to make contact. The eyes will usually tell the story. Usually poor eye contact, looking down at the floor or up at the ceiling. Usually a missing of spirit or soul within the person. The ancient Chinese called this possession (metaphorically speaking today of course) although there are some that use this treatment for that very reason even today. Some have even said the “devilsâ€as the Chinese called them are released in the treatment room and the person becomes out of control. I personally have never witnessed such a thing and have seen and done this treatment on many people. It is sometimes used when a person has trauma like a car wreck, physical or sexual abuse or any form of trauma. The patient is unable to move forward on their life path so they become unreachable so to speak. When you release the Dragons they take the devils out of the body thus releasing the person from being imprisoned by the devils. There are different points for Internal vs External Dragons. Internal with depression is as follows: Just below CV15 (or just below feel for the ashi spot in that general area) Stomach 32 and 41, and needle between Stomach 36 and 37 Without Depression: : Just below CV15 (or just below feel for the ashi spot in that general area)Stomach 32 and 41., Stomach 25 External GV 20 (Bai Hui), Urinary Bladder 11,23,61 You have to insert the needles in a specific order. This technique has alot of ritual associated with it. The needles are placed in a certain pattern and extracted in a certain pattern. Some are tonifed and others sedated. This is truly one of my favorite treatments and very effective. The Dragons are usually associated with the J.R. Worsley 5 Element style acupuncture. I heard a 5 Element person speak on this once and he was fantastic. This is very big with those trained in Worsley’s techniques. I also have several doctor friends who studied with Joe Helms MD at UCLA and he teaches this to them as well. Hope this helps Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2001 Report Share Posted September 7, 2001 HI Mike Regards internal and external dragons, In my understanding these refer to specific acupuncture treatments used in the Five Element Style of acupuncture. They are used for patients with mild to severe mental disturbances. I have had very good results with External Dragons in my internship practice already. they are described fully in the five elements acupuncture Handbook by Sharon M smith the # of the publisher is (410) 997-7040 yours Adam Moes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2001 Report Share Posted September 7, 2001 > within the person. The ancient Chinese called this > possession (metaphorically > speaking today of course) hah? What, 'of course'? Thanks for the info, Hugo __________ Get your free @.co.uk address at http://mail..co.uk or your free @.ie address at http://mail..ie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2001 Report Share Posted September 7, 2001 John I assume that you are directing this question to me since my e-mail is attached. Herbs are not my strong suit. So I am unable to answer the question about are there herbs to release dragons. I will say that in all the time I have encountered this technique no one including the 5 Element Worsley guy mentioned herbs. I get the impression it is more of a spiritual cleansing and herbs are far more gentle than the blasting of the dragons with needles. My understanding of releasing the dragons is only used as a last resort unless strongly indicated initally. I hope someone else on the list is able to answer your question because I would like to know also if herbs would work. I have seen people before that don't like needles or they are needle phobic and would welcome and alternative. Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2001 Report Share Posted September 7, 2001 Hi Mike, Do you also have experience with prescribing herbs for this specific problem, and if so, which ones? Regards, John Thu, 6 Sep 2001 19:15:57 EDT tarotdog Re: Dragons Mike Here is your answer on the dragons. Internal and External Dragons Causes: Taking over of ones mind or spirit by another. Trauma DrugTaking VariousMeditative mystical or mind altering practices which a person is unprepared. Internalobsessions (constant worry, fear or impending doom InternalCompulsions (such as OCD) Diagnosed when the person is unreachable. Others are unable to make contact. The eyes will usually tell the story. Usually poor eye contact, looking down at the floor or up at the ceiling. Usually a missing of spirit or soul within the person. The ancient Chinese called this possession (metaphorically speaking today of course) although there are some that use this treatment for that very reason even today. Some have even said the “devilsâ€as the Chinese called them are released in the treatment room and the person becomes out of control. I personally have never witnessed such a thing and have seen and done this treatment on many people. It is sometimes used when a person has trauma like a car wreck, physical or sexual abuse or any form of trauma. The patient is unable to move forward on their life path so they become unreachable so to speak. When you release the Dragons they take the devils out of the body thus releasing the person from being imprisoned by the devils. There are different points for Internal vs External Dragons. Internal with depression is as follows: Just below CV15 (or just below feel for the ashi spot in that general area) Stomach 32 and 41, and needle between Stomach 36 and 37 Without Depression: : Just below CV15 (or just below feel for the ashi spot in that general area)Stomach 32 and 41., Stomach 25 External GV 20 (Bai Hui), Urinary Bladder 11,23,61 You have to insert the needles in a specific order. This technique has alot of ritual associated with it. The needles are placed in a certain pattern and extracted in a certain pattern. Some are tonifed and others sedated. This is truly one of my favorite treatments and very effective. The Dragons are usually associated with the J.R. Worsley 5 Element style acupuncture. I heard a 5 Element person speak on this once and he was fantastic. This is very big with those trained in Worsley’s techniques. I also have several doctor friends who studied with Joe Helms MD at UCLA and he teaches this to them as well. Hope this helps Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2001 Report Share Posted September 7, 2001 Shane and John, I have heard of some herbs being used in conjunction with an ID treatment (Internal Dragons). I've heard ID's described as at times as a kind of Phlegm misting the Heart / Mind (and some times as goobers stuck in the works). My herb teacher has described using Er Chen Wan for a couple of weeks to clear Phlegm if she didn't feel she got the ID cleared, and then trying again. Phlegm can often be seen as deep weirdness. Not to say everyone with phlegm is possessed, or vice versa. The herbs don't necessarily clear the ID itself, but can help the points be more effective. -Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2001 Report Share Posted September 7, 2001 Anne Thanks I will file that away for later use. Again the herbs are my weakness but they are my next challenge. Shane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2001 Report Share Posted September 8, 2001 >Internal and External Dragons >Causes: > > Taking over of ones mind or spirit by another. > Trauma > DrugTaking > VariousMeditative mystical or mind altering practices which a >person >is unprepared. > Internalobsessions (constant worry, fear or impending doom > InternalCompulsions (such as OCD) >Diagnosed when the person is unreachable. Others are unable to make >contact. >The eyes will usually tell the story. Usually poor eye contact, looking >down >at the floor or up at the ceiling. Usually a missing of spirit or soul Thanks, Shane. This is especially good information for anyone working with victims and survivors of abuse. That's just one example of the taking over of another's " mind and spirit " , or, what is sometimes referred to in the West as " breaking another's spirit " , " soul murder " , " crushing the life out of someone " , destroying another's will or iniative " , etc. Victoria _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2001 Report Share Posted September 8, 2001 >they are described fully in >the five elements acupuncture Handbook by Sharon M smith >the # of the publisher is (410) 997-7040 Thanks, Adam. Another book for my wish list.<G> Speaking of fulfilled wishes, I just got a copy of Fluid Physiology and Pathology in Traditional by Steven Clavey. Naturally I'll be posting exerpts on here. The thing about wish lists for TCM books for Christmas or birthday is they can come trickling in weeks and months later. I've got one more about formulas and diagnosis due. Then it probably will be Christmas.<G> Victoria _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2001 Report Share Posted September 8, 2001 >(Internal Dragons). I've heard ID's described as at times as a kind of >Phlegm misting the Heart / Mind (and some times as goobers stuck in the >works). My herb teacher has described using Er Chen Wan for a couple of >weeks to clear Phlegm if she didn't feel she got the ID cleared, and then >trying again. Phlegm can often be seen as deep weirdness. Not to say >everyone with phlegm is possessed, or vice versa. The herbs don't >necessarily clear the ID itself, but can help the points be more effective. Thanks, Anne. I just got the book Fluid Physiology and Pathology in Traditional Chinese Medicine by Steven Clavey and will be paying special attention to the possible psychological effects of Phlegm. Victoria > >-Anne > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > >Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2001 Report Share Posted September 8, 2001 Thanks Anne! Chinese Traditional Medicine, ajeffres@a... wrote: > Shane and John, > > I have heard of some herbs being used in conjunction with an ID treatment > (Internal Dragons). I've heard ID's described as at times as a kind of > Phlegm misting the Heart / Mind (and some times as goobers stuck in the > works). My herb teacher has described using Er Chen Wan for a couple of > weeks to clear Phlegm if she didn't feel she got the ID cleared, and then > trying again. Phlegm can often be seen as deep weirdness. Not to say > everyone with phlegm is possessed, or vice versa. The herbs don't > necessarily clear the ID itself, but can help the points be more effective. > > -Anne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.